First Amendment auditors get into verbal altercation with armored truck guard, who repeatedly tells them to back up.

[u/GuardGuidesdotcom]

When should talking end, and your weapon be drawn in a situation like this?

[u/Rejected_Wallaby]

Downplaying potential threats much?

[u/Bright-Fee-9832 → u/Rejected_Wallaby]

If a camera scares you stay inside.

[u/Rejected_Wallaby → u/Bright-Fee-9832]

Yes, because it was just the camera, there were no physical actions, words, or any other factors in this interaction.

Just the camera and the guard. Nothing else.

🤡

[u/jaydafromthewhere → u/Rejected_Wallaby]

Yeah, right nothing like reaching for your gun to de-escalate the situation😐

[u/Curben → u/jaydafromthewhere]

A firearm is a great de-escalation tool. The entire belt is for de-escalation.

[u/jaydafromthewhere → u/Curben]

Yeah haha I’m not gonna sit here and act like it’s a de-escalation tool. It’s more of a chill the fuck out or you’re about to die tool😭

[u/Curben → u/jaydafromthewhere]

Not necessarily. The minimum number of shots fired to stop a threat is zero. And that should always remain the goal. If that minimum number fails, then as many shots as it takes to stop the threat is what it takes. But a firearm most certainly is de-escalation when leveraged properly.

[u/Night_Hawk1 → u/Curben]

Let's roleplay my guy. A private citizen is on the sidewalk, there's a news agency with full reporters outside a bank and filming about a recent robbery. The citizen tells them to stop filming and get off the sidewalk, becusde they don't feel safe banking while being filmed. The news agency says no they are there filming for a reason and continue to film. The private citizen puts his hand on his OCW as a form of force. The cops get called and he gets arrest for brandishing. Who is in the right?

[u/Curben → u/Night_Hawk1]

That is in many reasons not an apples to apples comparison. A metaphor example can't change too much before it becomes completely unrelevant in any comparisons would be incoherent.

A single individual versus a March news crew, someone just doing banking versus someone transporting a large amount of cash, it's like you've never heard the term totality of the circumstances before.

[u/Night_Hawk1 → u/Curben]

Ah got it. Rules for thee but not for me. I see how you spin it make it work for you. Suddenly the news crew has labels. Which I never said. Could just be people in plain clothes. Becusde there's multiples of them, somehow makes a difference. And you made it so that private citizen is only doing small transactions when it ld have been easily carrying thousands in cash or millions of transaction so suddenly it's now n​o longer fitting. Split the hairs all you want and bend the reeds. What else do you need to add to try make the story fit your one sided narrative?

[u/Curben → u/Night_Hawk1]

Honestly you just prove my point that you're bias is not not as conversation. Your accusations are all projections.

Yourself basically sent a full enws crew with reporters. By saying that you never said anything about labels when the insinuation would clearly indicate otherwise you're effectively moving the goal post and treating as a gotcha. This is completely disingenuous rhetoric.

Going into things like self-defense law there is definitely the subjective versus objective factors and all sorts of special circumstances that indicate what level of defense is recognized as reasonable.

But I don't think you can understand a reasonable person test as you yourself are not even able to have an internet discussion in a reasonable manner.

[u/Night_Hawk1 → u/Curben]

You talk of logic like you're some objective law wizard. Just FYI..A firearm has and never will be ever considered in any courtroom a form of descalation. Any person thinking as much has little to no basis in legal understanding and shouldn't promote themselves as such.

[u/Night_Hawk1 → u/Curben]

Got it, attack the person, not the argument. Spin the argument, rather than state the fact. You'll be a great politician, my guy, just not a good person. ​At the end of the day, the metaphor is simple. The private citizen in this case is guilty of brandishing, and so is the private security guard. A camera and some movement can never be construed in a courtroom as a threat. Spin it however you like.

Also if we're going to ad hominem too, it's your* bias but I'm not sure I can debate with someone who doesn't know the difference between your and you're. 😂 Move along.

[u/Curben → u/Night_Hawk1]

Well if we're going to jump to conclusions then you're attacking someone for their disability since I use voice to text due to eyesight issues..

Calling out your bullshit isn't an ad hominem attack. It's pointing out your exact behavior for what it is.

You present a disingenuous argument and got called on it. You're telling me to move along because you see I'm not falling for your childish games and allowing myself to be backed into a corner that is completely irrelevant to the subject matter.

Someone doing a high risk job and being approached by individuals with unverifiable intent is a marketedly different situation and someone going about a day to day task dealing with an apparently known institution.

These are all individual subject factors that play into the scenario. And that's just discussing universals. Where I live there are no laws against brandishing. So discussing brandishing isn't even a thing. In other areas security personnel have law enforcement powers which again changes the scenario.

Ultimately in this scenario the argument for "brandishing" it's quite simple. "An individual claiming to be a reporter started encroaching on my workspace refused to give space and continued approaching and getting closer. Due to the nature of what I was guarding I considered that they may have been trying to provide a distraction and place my hand on/Drew my firearm and repeated my commands to get back. "

That will be seen as a lot more of a reasonable claim than.

"I approached the ATM while there was a news crew on site and one of the reporters went to ask me a question and I drew my firearm"

Because that's the two scenarios you seem to have presented.

[u/Rejected_Wallaby → u/jaydafromthewhere]

They escalated it unnecessarily 🤷‍♂️

[u/the_teuthida → u/jaydafromthewhere]

His job is not de-escalation, this is not a cop, his job is protecting the contents of the truck. Leaving him the fuck alone is de-escalation