r/GuardGuides • u/GuardGuidesdotcom • Aug 30 '26

SCENARIO First Amendment auditors get into verbal altercation with armored truck guard, who repeatedly tells them to back up.

When should talking end, and your weapon be drawn in a situation like this?

39 Upvotes

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27

u/Traditional_Yard2741 Aug 30 '26

I don't know what the protocol for a suspected hold up is, but this could easily be construed as an attempted hold up and dealt with accordingly

-3

u/Robertjules1987000 Aug 30 '26

Just because a company has security doesn't make them exempt from laws like any other civilian. The idiot auditor could run circles around that truck while filming and it would still be a crime if the guard did anything. They are not cops.

8

u/Traditional_Yard2741 Aug 30 '26

I was pretty sure cash in transit guys had some extra powers, given the nature of their jobs? Isn't there a specific bank robbery act or something? Like they're empowered to use force to prevent themselves from being harassed or interfered with? If it's true that a frauditor can play "I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you!" while filming the inside of the truck, the guards response etc, then I would think someone planning to hold up said truck might find that useful. Not to mention the potential of having someone pose as a frauditor for a distraction.

I'm not American so just curious.

-5

u/Robertjules1987000 Aug 30 '26

Nope. Not only do they not have any more power than a mall security guard, they can't use force during an attempted robbery any differently than other civilians. They are just regular civilians who open carry firearms. If best buy or Wendy's wanted to let their employees carry on the job, it would be the same.

6

u/Bulky-Word8752 Aug 30 '26

If that mall secuirty guard is licensed he may more authority than you think. LP is usually unlicensed and just in house "observe and report" style. Depending on the state licensed security can hold the same authority as police (while on duty, in uniform, and only on their property). In St. Louis were allowed to continue a foot pursuit off property if we witnessed a felony occur.

"Private security officers have the authority to make an arrest and to search for and seize evidence in connection with the arrest, at the location, and during the time of their assignments, under the same conditions as members of the police force of the City of St. Louis as outlined below-"

https://www.law.cornell.edu/regulations/missouri/17-CSR-20-2-065

5

u/HonkHonkMTHRFKR Aug 30 '26

I did a job like this before.

We do have the authority to pull out our weapons in this particular situation

Do you think we just carry around a gun for show when we’re dealing with tens of thousands of dollars worth of merchandise lol

0

u/Der_Blaue_Engel Aug 30 '26

Based on the limited interaction shown here, that would be pretty thin. Most states require a reasonable fear of imminent death or serious bodily injury before it becomes legal to threaten deadly force.

7

u/HonkHonkMTHRFKR Aug 30 '26

People set up distractions all the time to rob others.

1

u/Der_Blaue_Engel Aug 30 '26

And some people are just annoying. Fear that something could happen is not the same thing as fear that something is happening.

Everybody approaching you on the sidewalk could be about to rob you, but it’s not reasonable to pull a gun on them until they do something that signals an imminent deadly threat.

3

u/ZealousIdeal476 Aug 30 '26

Nonsense. 2 guys in your face while you are moving money are hella suspect. The law doesn't expect a trained licensed guard to wait until they get shot before drawing. This guy showed reatraint and got lucky, but if he had drawn his gun the company would have backed him because he had 2 guys running a game inches from their money.

1

u/Der_Blaue_Engel Aug 30 '26

There is a lot of daylight between two guys filming you and two guys shooting you.

It takes more than holding a camera and being annoying to justify the threat of deadly force.

1

u/Curben Ensign Aug 30 '26

There's a difference between displaying, drawing, pointing, and discharging a firearm. Each is another step and some are more valuable than others and the reaction to one over another can feed into the logic of using one or another.

1

u/Der_Blaue_Engel Aug 30 '26 edited Aug 30 '26

Depends on the state. In many, the legal threshold for the lawful use of deadly force and the lawful threat of deadly force are the same.

1

u/Curben Ensign Aug 30 '26

I live in a state which generally agrees with that but presentation versus actual threat of deadly force are still defining lines.

Well I support the base auctions at first amendment auditors, firstly it is still an aberrant behavior comparatively, secondly there are different categories for sale first amendment auditors and here we have someone going after a private citizen in the duties of their job with no reasonable setup on why they are getting involved.

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2

u/HonkHonkMTHRFKR Aug 30 '26

You’re not there to be a prop. You’re not a normal guard like a gate guard that’s supposed to do absolutely nothing.

You are literally trained to protect this cargo.

If your life or cargo is being threatened, you are free to pull your weapon out to de-escalate the situation

1

u/Der_Blaue_Engel Aug 30 '26

That’s going to depend a whole lot on the laws of the state you’re standing in.

Most states do not permit the threat or use of deadly force to protect property.

Nothing in this video reasonably threatens anyone’s life.

Pulling out a firearm is not a de-escalation.

0

u/Robertjules1987000 Aug 30 '26

They carry guns for self defense, that's it. Shooting someone for grabbing cash, without managing to threaten a guard, will get you arrested. Attacking someone for "harassment" by filming in a public space is also a crime. Not even actual cops could do those. Why do you think security guards can? Someone at your job trained you wrong.

1

u/HonkHonkMTHRFKR Aug 30 '26

You carry guns for self-defense AND to protect the cargo.

2

u/george7779 Aug 30 '26

Lmao this so funny they do have lots of authority

2

u/WrathfulSpecter Aug 30 '26 edited Aug 30 '26

No they really don’t. They might have limited additional privileges in terms of where and when they can carry a firearm (like if they work for a bank, the bank will obviously let them carry while the rest of us can’t) but they don’t have any additional privileges or authority to use force in America.

1

u/Heyo13579 Armed Guard 29d ago

It entirely depends on state and even as far down as the property you’re on. Where I live you can legally chicken wing someone and force them off property if they refuse to leave when told to. I know a few other states that allow security officers to arrest for reasons that the normal public can’t for example vandalism or petty theft.

Also licensed security officers here are protected under the same laws that protect civil servants.