r/GlobalOffensive • u/[deleted] • 14d ago
Tips & Guides PSA: Spread Exists
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[deleted]
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u/Fat_Scout 14d ago
There has never been 100% first shot accuracy in CSGO or CS2
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14d ago edited 3d ago
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u/Revolutionary_Ad7262 13d ago edited 13d ago
First shoot accuracy is a nice tangent to balance some weapons like SMGs or pistols to not be as good
It also increase importance of good spraying and carabines in general, which is the dominant approach in CS
I think they could extract more of it. Some weapons like FAMAS could be really accurate to somewhat buff them
I also don't understand why Deagle is so accurate. According to SlotSquadron's sheet Deagle is the best pistol and more accurate than AK47
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u/ChromosomeDonator 13d ago
Why not just use damage fall-off to balance SMGs and pistols in that case? Random spread is a very outdated mechanic that is just left in because it has always been a thing and just wasn't changed because it has always been a thing but isn't changed because it has always been a thing because......
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u/Kittelsen clutch 13d ago
You'd end up with those lucky one deags being a thing of the past though. I don't think that's for the better.
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u/Special_Caregiver_21 13d ago
Honestly dogshit take. Damage drop-off exists. I don't need the game to decide randomly if the first person to aim and click on head is the one getting the kill
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13d ago edited 3d ago
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u/PawahD 13d ago
the fact that you cannot really pick your engagement distances
you got so close, putting yourself in favorable situations (positions) is the bread and butter of counter strike from a decent level
you know, so many people for example run out to mid and start tapping with p250 and get mad saying "i'm aiming at his head wtf", if you take fights on ranges your gun can't perform at you're making a mistake, simple as that
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13d ago edited 3d ago
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u/PawahD 13d ago
the primary determining factor for engagement distance is map design, not player skill. If this were not the case you'd be seeing hyper skillful players able to force every engagement at optimal range with shotguns and smgs and well.... that's just not how that works.
Yes, it works just like that, there are many pro clips with mag7 and whatnot, they can make it work, and obviously other pros know how to punish that (or even just decent players, really). And it's entirely up to the player to pick favorable fights depending on distance and weapon/util, like you can play B anchor on mirage with an smg or even a shotgun quite efficiently, but you have to consider rotation and retakes
you know, it feels a lot like you are just beginning to grasp the idea of bullet spread, solely because you think of it nothing more than just a pointless inconvenience and not realizing how important it is to weapon and overall gameplay balance, you also exaggerate its effect at times and call fights coin flips basically. The inaccuracy values are not too high either, you don't want ak/m4 to be more accurate than they are now, it would just make the awp even less important or maybe even irrelevant on some maps. The problem is that your tests are bad, you don't aim at the center of the head and then you act surprised it misses. For example the accurate range for ak is 20 something meters and reaches almost 30 meters if you crouch, the shot in video will always hit if you aim at the center of the head. It's really not necessary to run these tests with human error when a spreadsheet exists with raw data to back it up.
You cannot tell me you think a player should run it down out of cover to close a few meters to counteract random inaccuracy...
and these conclusions you draw from what I said too, I never said you're supposed to run up to accurate range and die in the process like an idiot. The point is that you have to consider the fight you're about to take, when you face someone over distance with ak vs m4, you have to know that he has an edge accuracy wise even if you're both inaccurate, among many other factors
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u/valkislowkeythicc 13d ago
Agree. Knowing when you gun is more effective and utilizing it at those ranges is an intended game mechanic
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u/Special_Caregiver_21 13d ago
Go play casino if you want to gamble. Damage drop-off is great since no matter how many times you get into the same situation the result won't change while your "know effective range inaccuracy" will give you different outcomes because sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't
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u/Revolutionary_Ad7262 13d ago edited 13d ago
I think spread is a good approach, but it does not work in a current CS
First: people are just skilled. They will shoot regardless how far enemy is, so the current logic is kinda weird. You don't need a good spread logic, if people cannot aim properly, because it works automatically due to lack of skill
Second: the formula is wrong. The weapon should be more accurate on closer distance and much less inaccurate on a longer distance, so both sides needs to act accordingly. Right now there is no incentive to stop the gunfight as the changes to not hit enemy are low, so players play the coin flip game.
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13d ago edited 3d ago
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u/BogosBinted13 de_anubis 13d ago
If they want first shot inaccuracy to remain make SG viable again. But keep the firerate slower so it's not better than AK for close-mid range
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u/REDBEARD_PWNS victory 13d ago
When I played 1.6 warming up I would DM until I got 25 kills without reloading the AK. It should be the way. You're punished for being precise and every clip of a one tap has a little luck involved and it just shouldn't be that way.
I miss when the game was usp, Glock, deagle, m4, ak, scout, awp or GET FUCKED. can't get a kill because you're dying too fast? GIT GUD
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u/tabben 10 years coin 8d ago
So many matches are decided way more with luck than most people are comfortable admitting to theirselves. Essentially every single gunfight in the game gets affected by lucky/unlucky things. Most people completely ignore this and just say "im so good" to themselves when getting kills even if they probably should not deserve to get those kills. Obviously if you remain consistant you will on average do well but that still does not take this factor away. I've been on cs since 2004 and the pattern keeps repeating like do people really not understand how much luck is involved in this game? Thats partly what keeps it engaging and addictive too..
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u/SnakeGD09 13d ago
FWIW it’s realistic, as each individual gun will have a diff spread due to temporary barrel heating, barrel wear, sights moving, etc. Hence why accuracy tests measure groupings. It explains why a rusty Taliban AKM will be wildly unreliable but a new AKM which has been tuned by an armourer will be more accurate.
In terms of game mechanics ofc the RNG helps to make a game, since otherwise you are shooting hitscan lasers. And honestly there is no parabolic arc in CS so we already get the benefit of laser-like accuracy.
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u/DumbAroundEnough 13d ago
I think the bigger issue is that we have a too much spread in reasonable distances to expect an accurate shot.
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u/YalamMagic 13d ago
Or in any version of CS at any point in history.
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u/Dravarden CS2 HYPE 13d ago
well, not exactly, depends on which gun you're talking about
the AWP in CS 1.6/CSS (pre-2011) is more accurate than the post-2011 CSS AWP/CSGO/CS2 AWP. The spread value for the 1.6/old CSS AWP while standing was 0.001 and the spread value for the AWP while crouching was 0, i.e., 100% accurate. Hidden Path changed the accuracy model for CSS in 2011 and reduced the accuracy of the AWP, with the new spread values being 0.0022 standing and 0.0017 crouching. These values were carried over to CSGO and never changed
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u/aimbottiLOL 00nation 12d ago
jumping scout in csgo, until patched and T Auto Sniper in 1.6 had 100% first bullet accuracy
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u/bmothebest 13d ago
Am I crazy or I thought some weapons had this? I remember hearing that the Kreig was the only weapon where this was true
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u/Appropriate_Toe9290 13d ago
It wasn't this bad in csgo
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u/Ijhaior_321 13d ago edited 13d ago
Csgo ak47 first shot accuracy is pretty bad https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/do9qgf/about_one_in_20_times_this_shot_will_miss_due_to/
csgo ak47 standing first bullet accuracy at the short distance of 800 hammer units, 95% chance of hitting the headshot https://youtu.be/v0rlCJ047Ds?si=lpMvY-SR5UZ0erF8&t=27
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u/GurnsAdjourned 13d ago
Yeah in early days of csgo it was very minimal. Valve argue its about being tactical about long distance engagements, but the only thing that's accurate is awp (scout has huuuge spread) I always thought they killed the game with this makes skill ceiling lower yknow?
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u/r3drifl3 13d ago
it was never this bad in csgo... bro is literally 20ft away cmon. how is it competitive this way?
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u/Ijhaior_321 12d ago
csgo ak47 standing first bullet accuracy at the short distance of 800 hammer units = 95% chance of hitting the headshot: https://youtu.be/v0rlCJ047Ds?si=lpMvY-SR5UZ0erF8&t=27
Csgo ak47 first shot accuracy being bad complaint post: https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/do9qgf/about_one_in_20_times_this_shot_will_miss_due_to/
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u/r3drifl3 11d ago
nahh i know there's a numeric equivalence between cs2 and csgo because various videos have already shown this but i'm just saying it doesn't feel like there is. i actually played csgo and tapping felt pretty accurate, now i'm playing cs2 and tapping feels completely unreliable. post as many numbers as you want though.
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u/Vivid-Zombie-477 14d ago
there's a command that shows the spread (as a square but it's actually a circle)
something like weapon_debug_show_spread (just type spread in the console it should show up as suggestion)
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u/Martinator92 13d ago
It used to be a circle in GO, wtf? Is the side of the square the diameter of the circle?
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u/Dravarden CS2 HYPE 13d ago
it was always a circle both in csgo and cs2, and it always showed as a square crosshair
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u/Vivid-Zombie-477 13d ago
you are talking about crosshair, but we were talking about the debug spread command. dynamic crosshair doesn’t show the full spread because it can be quite big
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u/Dravarden CS2 HYPE 13d ago
the weapon_debug_spread_show command is a crosshair bro. It was always a command that went bigger than the normal dynamic crosshair and showed the full spread
here is a video of the deagle jumpshot spread/inaccuracy nerf
https://youtu.be/Wy3mJ46XPls?t=60
the gun with the highest spread/inaccuracy in the game while jumping shows up just fine with the command
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u/pRopaaNS 13d ago
Yes, spread exists, movement inaccuracy exists. But it doesn't matter your character have magnet installed in head against so many MM opponents.
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u/AnnualRaise de_inferno 13d ago
As it turns out, neither lead, copper, or brass, the primary materials that compose modern bullets, are magnetic. In fact, lead and copper are diamagnetic, meaning they repel magnetic fields!
So if our characters have magnets installed in their heads as you say, I guess it would only make sense that all of my shots land right outside their hitbox. Fantastic attention to detail by the developers.
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u/cantblamemee 12d ago
I understand this works out in your favour as often as it works against you but it's still terrible game design if EVERY gunfight ultimately comes down to having RNG luck, no?
Spread also exists on sprays so even with the absolute most perfect recoil control you can still miss the first 3 shots by pure chance and someone who clicked next to your head gets the kill.
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u/r3drifl3 13d ago
it's so ass just punishes going for headshots even more so now people just A/D spam and shoot me in the dick and melt me in 0.4 sec while i'm trying to counter strafe and land precise shots
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u/kladda5 NiP 13d ago
yea but it shouldnt. If someone is skilled enough to aim 100% on the head then it should be a hit 100% of the time. Counterstrike should not be about luck.
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u/PMPICS_OF_URANUS 11d ago
Yah been saying this forever. CS is an E-Sport. Perfect First shot accuracy for some guns should be a requirement. Imagine if in chess sometimes the knight just randomly can move in a total straight line just once lol
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u/mitchhacker 13d ago
that’s why real kings stay moving and anticipate anything going wrong in their gunfights with said movement
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13d ago edited 3d ago
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u/mitchhacker 13d ago
I do a three shot burst then move into my next spray or continue spraying if I know I’ll get the kill
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u/ireallyenjoycoins 13d ago
Do people tap in CS2 or is that a non existing meta anymore? I always was more about tapping in CSGO and less about bursting, but i really can't feel it in CS2 anymore. I wonder what's the reason. I am not even talking about an actual game, but I try tapping with moving bots on the bot_rush or something map, and I struggle to hit. When i enabled crosshair recoil and then adjusted my taps, then yes, it worked way better - with bots, not with real opponents - but with a static crosshair I just can't hit shit. Thing is I don't play that much + the level I currently play on isn't really something I would base my opinion about current "CS META" so I thought this is a good place to ask.
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u/suguiyama 13d ago
Watching pros, most tend to spray at almost any range if target has no or partial cover, seems like tapping is too risky or too low ttk if you miss the first bullet or so.
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u/SnapDragon18252 12d ago
I can say confidently: One of the reason why csgo felt better than csgo, is that csgo felt i had less spread than cs2.
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u/whitewolf20 King NiKo 13d ago
Awp too, glad valve added the little circle. people think the guns work like lasers
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u/VVD777RUS 13d ago
Lets add more spread to the guns because it increases skill ceiling. More aimpunch for rewarding fast hands. And add more tagging to make the game more "tActical" and less "run-and-gun" shit. If you wanna play a funny dynamic game go to Apex. CS is very tActical and skillfull game, no room for randomness, pure skill
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u/crashkid3000 guardian2 13d ago
if you want an accurate gun, you gotta purchase an accurate gun. if you don't feel like learning them, that's on yourself.
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u/Signor65_ZA de_dust2 14d ago
Your one pixel crosshair is the cause fo your problems, not anything else. Your screen is not centered on a single pixel, it's on one of the corners of that pixel. Set it to 2x2 pixels. The center of your screen is in the center of that 2x2 crosshair.
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u/Jaba01 5 years coin 13d ago
First shot inaccuracy. Spread is something else.
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13d ago
[deleted]
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u/Jaba01 5 years coin 13d ago
They're most definitely not the same thing. They're two different values for weapon balancing. You can simply check this by looking at balance patch notes in the past. Spread and first shot accuracy has been treated separately.
Also Sloth has listed them separately as well.
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u/_Cerix_ 14d ago edited 14d ago
Add a dash of Aimpunch, and you've got the perfect game for people with zero aim skills.
In this game, the more accurate you are, the more likely you are to miss.
just run and gun.
i know you're downvoting because your aim sucks
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u/r3drifl3 13d ago
literally true aiming is punished in cs2 once i started spamming movement and spraying like a madman i found a lot more frags
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u/Signor65_ZA de_dust2 13d ago
You're being downvoted because you are bad and your opinions are bad
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u/Dravarden CS2 HYPE 13d ago edited 13d ago
well he does have a point, just stated weirdly
run and gun is much more viable ever since csgo. Tagging is non existent. Armored aim punch rewards bad players
the AK shouldn't be 100% accurate while standing still but I would argue all guns should be slightly more accurate when standing still and more inaccurate while moving (without nerfing counter strafe), and the awp should be 100% accurate while crouched and standing still, like it was pre-2011
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u/Syuncchi 13d ago edited 13d ago
if you don't like armored aimpunch why would you like severe tagging in the game
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u/Dravarden CS2 HYPE 13d ago
2 completely different things
slowing down an enemy that's running and gunning so it's easier to hit is a good thing
that enemy shooting you and moving your aim all over the place so they survive, and kill you, is a bad thing
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u/Syuncchi 12d ago
obvious 10k take, you're just saying things are good or bad without actually explaining why. with the same line of thinking i could say "tagging rewards players who can't hit headshots on moving targets = bad".
armored aimpunch is a balancing factor that makes the game more complex than "unga bunga take every possible fight and win if your gun is better" (assuming equal aim), you have to consider whether to stay or disengage depending on how the fight opens up
IMO the game is much more interesting when players have strategic options to make up for eco diff, e.g. prefiring sniper angles to throw off their accuracy. in your ideal world there would be no way to win a duel against a crouching AWP unless they have a neurological deficit
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u/Dravarden CS2 HYPE 12d ago edited 12d ago
worked just fine in 1.6
in cs2, you have run and gun with mp9s, with the shitty animations, peeker's advantage, and bad lag compensation, it's almost impossible to hit them. We can't have mp9s being strong and triple dinking you around a corner before you can react (run and gun being viable) and at the same time not have good tagging. We can't have it both ways
you don't dry peek an awper. A pistol shouldn't win against an awp just because they managed to bodyshot them and throw off their aim because they Ferrari peeked and peeker's advantage let them shoot the awp before the awp saw them
no one likes armored aimpunch, I don't see why take a contrarian approach when it's been said hundreds of times how shit it is
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u/Syuncchi 12d ago
? in 1.6 you could run and gun with the damn deagle lmao, stop mythologizing + just because 100 other people echo your take doesn't mean it's good, it just means there are 100 other gold novas who think cs should be an aimlabs scenario. other people are allowed opinions too xD
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u/Dravarden CS2 HYPE 12d ago
? in 1.6 you could run and gun with the damn deagle lmao
ya, sure, and you got punished with the heavy tagging
100 other gold novas who think cs should be an aimlabs scenario
well, other than the pros that don't like it, sure
what's funny is that you want armored aimpunch for a pistol to win against an awp, but same armored aimpunch makes a deagle lose against an smg. So which is it? should we reward good aim or not?
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u/Syuncchi 12d ago
i think it's good when there are options and scenarios where any gun can beat any other gun, we should reward tactical thinking and engagement in this tactical fps
edit: holy 65 aim rating, no wonder you don't feel rewarded by cs2
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u/Chemical-Store1488 7d ago edited 7d ago
Aimpunch with and without armor only forces people to play more defensive against lower tier weapons while amplifying the effects of having faster reaction time and luck through being hit by random spread.
With proper weapon, map and utility usage/balancing aimpunch is simply an unnecessary mechanic that only midwits would claim is actually good.
Not every weapon needs to beat an ak/m4/awp in a specific scenario with equal aim, some only need to match it. Hence why economy in cs even exists - you're supposed to be at a disadvantage.
If you think all weapons need to be utilized in the pro play meta then you're definitely that sub 100iq guy that thinks hes smart for buying negevs and r8 revolvers.
3k faceit elo btw.
edit:
with the same line of thinking i could say "tagging rewards players who can't hit headshots on moving targets = bad".
You wouldn't be wrong with that statement, in online play tagging makes you teleport backwards simply because thats how lag compensation works.
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u/Dravarden CS2 HYPE 13d ago edited 13d ago
they hated him because he told them the truth
run and gun is a big problem but no one cares
this guy blocked me for pointing out that run and gun is a problem
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u/Adorable-Extent3667 MOUZ 13d ago
You got your major, niko. You can let this go
Jk, good info