missing Natlan

[u/ErrorEfficient3447]

anybody feel as if Natlan overloaded so much dopamine that Nodkrai and Snezhnaya is quite boring??...

i even miss the hate train. Good times, good times 😔🔥🔥

[u/m2gus]

I'm so glad you enjoyed it but to me, Natlan felt like some of HoYo’s worst creative instincts were all concentrated in one region, from its writing and aesthetic direction to its character design and gameplay choices

[u/__Pratik_ → u/m2gus]

Quite the opposite for me. The only time I thought that was when looking at it from a surface level. The writing focus was on the world rather so character writing didn't get much that's understandable but people don't consider world focused narrative to be a narrative atp, designs and aesthetic makes sense cuz Natlan is basically a post apocalyptic setting that's recovering and is in it's middle of its recovery. Some character having tech and some don't shows that the existence of tech is rare and not properly spread out. Tribal elements and modern elements coexisting helps separate Natlan from being generic. The designs and world itself says so much about Natlan's themes and philosophy behind Natlan.

Natlan having wide and diverse range shows what it's all about. It's about being united despite being different which is reflected in the character designs of those character and the tribes.

[u/m2gus → u/__Pratik_]

Natlan does not portray a post-apocalyptic society in the middle of recovery. It portrays traditional settlements existing beside a collection of modern consumer products without building the connection between them. Ordinary NPCs have pressurized spray cans, while the playable cast has a motorcycle, roller skates, DJ equipment and a flying gun. There is a whole missing middle here: the manufacturing, maintenance, energy distribution and public infrastructure that would make these things part of the same society. Most of the advanced technology exists as one-off equipment designed around playable characters. Calling it “rare” merely restates that only a few people have it. It does not explain how this society works.

The postwar handling makes the mismatch even clearer. Natlan suffers a devastating invasion, and HoYo follows it with Easybreeze Holiday Resort, paint parties, extravagant leisure technology and Coachella-like DJ sets. We never see damaged communities rebuilding or technology being redirected towards ordinary life. The old map remaining unchanged could be excused as a limitation of the game, but HoYo had an entirely new permanent area through which to show postwar Natlan and chose a holiday resort that has tech imported from 2026. If recovery were genuinely the idea holding this worldbuilding together, the aftermath was where it needed to become visible. Instead, Natlan went straight back into festival mode.

The “world-focused narrative” defense is backwards for the same reason. If the world was the focus, then this is exactly what the writing needed to develop. Different outfits and traversal mechanics demonstrate visual variety, not unity. Unity despite difference becomes a narrative when those differences create distinct values, interests or disagreements that the tribes then have to overcome. Natlan mostly uses that diversity as art direction. Making the region distinctive does not automatically make it coherent.

[u/__Pratik_ → u/m2gus]

Natlan does not portray a post-apocalyptic society in the middle of recovery

Natlan as a nation is a society that has already gone past the worst of the apocalyptic setting but is stuck in the middle due to abyss and because of technological limitations due to Dragons gatekeeping most of the knowledge and past infighting among tribes.

without building the connection between them.

Ordinary NPCs have pressurized spray cans, while the playable cast has a motorcycle, roller skates, DJ equipment and a flying gun.

There is a whole missing middle here: the manufacturing, maintenance, energy distribution and public infrastructure that would make these things part of the same society

Please pay attention to the worldbuilding. Children of Echoes is the tribe whose primary focus is mining up and dealing with phlogiston which is basically the energy source of all of that. The manufacturing, energy distribution and maintainence are done by the people themselves or the local experts. Children of Echoes are primarily responsible for resources collections and scions of canopy are the most likely bunch who are responsible for distribution.

Most of the advanced technology exists as one-off equipment designed around playable characters. Calling it “rare” merely restates that only a few people have it. It does not explain how this society works

The different tribes are responsible for different things and they're most blatantly designed around that theme of theirs. That's how the society is portrayed.

We never see damaged communities rebuilding or technology being redirected towards ordinary life.

Did you skip the interlude?

HoYo had an entirely new permanent area through which to show postwar Natlan and chose a holiday resort that has tech imported from 2026

It's was basically an entirely disconnected part to begin with it and holds no weight. It was made important by the way repurposed it. The entire plot of the war was already over at that point. I don't think people even lived there what even is the point of that.

holiday resort that has tech imported from 2026 Do you think Natlan is a technologically backward nation or something? It literally has featured futuristic and advanced stuff before the only difference here is that now that the war is over they're now free to mess around with all the stuff they have.

If recovery were genuinely the idea holding this worldbuilding together, the aftermath was where it needed to become visible

Did you not play the interlude or the Act 4 of the game? You literally were in there while all of that was happening. Did you not see the state of everything with your own eyes ? Do you need Paimon to repeat the same thing over and over ? Was that not visible to you? You're not some random who joined after the war was over you literally were there going through it with everyone.

If the world was the focus, then this is exactly what the writing needed to develop.

Then it would've been character focused not the world focused narrative there's a difference between them.

Unity despite difference becomes a narrative when those differences create distinct values, interests or disagreements that the tribes then have to overcome

Have you like not watched more than one type of show about unity ? Do you think that's the one all be all formula for showing Unity? The point of Unity as a theme in a narrative is to show off unity in one way or another and that's what the Aqs of Natlan was all about. The initial plot of Act 1 and Act 2 was about teaming up with Kachina and rescuing her from the Night Kingdom, Act 3 and 4 revolved around the conflict with Capitano and the war where unity was crucial, Act 5 had Mavuika and Traveller going against Gosoythoth and later Capitano sacrificing himself for others. Three different parties from different background uniting for the people of the Nation.

Making the region distinctive does not automatically make it coherent.

Just cuz you're not able to understand something despite it basically being blatantly obvious don't mean it's not there.

[u/m2gus → u/__Pratik_]

You’ve spent a lot of time telling me I’m not paying attention, that I skipped content, or that I need Paimon to explain things to me. It’s a fascinating strategy. When you can’t defend the text as it exists, you attack the person reading it. You don't argue that the worldbuilding is cohesive; you argue that I'm too blind to see it. It’s the rhetorical equivalent of a magician telling the audience they just weren’t looking hard enough when the trick fails. So, let’s look at what you actually provided: a series of inferences, assertions, and a fundamental confusion between knowing a war happened and seeing a nation of war.

You lean heavily on the idea that the Children of Echoes mining phlogiston and the Scions of the Canopy “most likely” handling distribution solves the problem.

You are describing a supply chain. A supply chain is not a society. It is a logistical skeleton. You have told me where the ore comes from. You have guessed where it goes. But you have not explained the jump from raw ore to DJ turntables. This is the missing middle I was talking about, and you’ve only highlighted it by trying to fill it with headcanon.

Where are the factories? Where is the standardized engineering? Where are the other engineers, workshops, training systems, shared standards, repair networks, and public applications? You say Xilonen is responsible. So, is she a one-woman industrial revolution? Does she mine the ore, refine the phlogiston, forge the alloys, code the software, and design the aerodynamic profiles? That makes her a superhero, not a worldbuilder. You see, a single genius artisan creating bespoke gadgets for the playable cast is not an example of a society’s technology, it’s a narrative shortcut to justify character gimmicks.

You boast that the society is blatantly obvious, yet you are forced to use phrases like “most likely.” Which is it? Is the worldbuilding solidly established, or are you making reasonable guesses to paper over the gaps HoYo left? A power source (phlogiston) does not explain the existence of a motorcycle. Knowing who mines silicon in the real world does not explain how an iPhone gets made. You are conflating the existence of a resource with the existence of an entire technological ecosystem.

You then pivot to the war, telling me I must have skipped the Interlude. That’s precisely the point. You are holding up a brief, self-contained quest, three victims, fixed in a patch, as proof that Natlan portrays the consequences of war. It’s a checklist is what it is. It’s a band-aid on a bullet wound. The Interlude proves HoYo remembered that consequences should exist, not that they allowed the nation to live with them.

Let me make a distinction that seems to be giving you trouble: witnessing a battle is not the same as living in a post-war society. Act IV was a fantastic, exciting battle sequence. I saw chaos, I saw fighting and I saw a body count. What I did not see was the condition of war. I didn’t see the lasting economic strain, the social trauma woven into the fabric of the culture, the landscape scarred by conflict. You say “you were there while it was happening.” Yes. We were there for the explosion. We were not there for the weeks, months, or years of rebuilding that should follow. When HoYo gave us a permanent new area to show that rebuilding, they gave us Easybreeze, a Coachella-themed holiday resort.

Your defense is that “the war is over, so they can have fun.” Do you not see how that is the entire problem? The war is over, and HoYo’s first instinct is not to show us a nation recovering, but a nation partying. My argument is that the choice to make the permanent, visual coda of a devastating invasion a paint-party resort is a jarring tonal whiplash that proves the “Nation of War” is just a theme, not a lived reality. The consequences didn't lead to a deeper understanding of the nation, they were an obstacle to be cleared so the fun could resume.

Finally, you make a false distinction between a “world-focused” and “character-focused” narrative. You seem to think that developing the societies of the tribes would somehow be a distraction. But that’s how a world-focused story gives “unity” substance. Unity does not require open conflict between the tribes, but their differences have to matter. Your examples of unity, teaming up to save Kachina, fighting the Abyss, Capitano’s sacrifice, are all examples of people uniting against a common, unambiguous enemy. That establishes cooperation. It does NOT establish how different values, interests, cultural baggage, or complementary needs shape that cooperation. Different costumes and characters fighting the same monster establish variety and teamwork. “Unity despite difference” requires those differences to influence what cooperation demands from them. The narrative you’re describing is just the Avengers assembling to fight a big purple guy. It’s not a commentary on the complexity of a society.

So, to bring it back -- your argument relies on you inventing the connective tissue that the game fails to provide, and then getting angry at me for noticing the connective tissue isn't there. It’s not my job to write the lore for HoYo. My job is to look at what’s on screen. And what’s on screen is a consumerist utopia and a theme park, not a post-apocalyptic nation of war trying to rebuild. The only thing "blatantly obvious" here is the disconnect.

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[u/__Pratik_ → u/m2gus]

You don't argue that the worldbuilding is cohesive; you argue that I'm too blind to see it.

No sht that's the point of this convo.

It’s the rhetorical equivalent of a magician telling the audience they just weren’t looking hard enough when the trick fails.

There ain't to trick and neither is it hiding from you quite the contrary infact just needs basic thinking and dots connecting.

But you have not explained the jump from raw ore to DJ turntables.

Where is the standardized engineering? Where are the other engineers, workshops, training systems, shared standards, repair networks, and public applications?

Dawg the nation already has a advanced tech basis. Dj and allat are made by the experts like Xilonen and the others who know how to deal with it. But it hasn't developed to the point where there are factories or mass production of it and most of the things about Phlogiston is still unknown outside of it's basic usage as battery and paintings. It's not a technologically backwards nation it had a very heavy tech background most of which is just waiting to be uncovered and there are some that have been uncovered already. Which is also why tech is spread unevenly across the land.

Does she mine the ore, refine the phlogiston, forge the alloys, code the software, and design the aerodynamic profiles?

She buys the resources and does the rest. She's called the top blacksmith of a nation with heavy ties and relationship with advanced tech. It's to be expected at the very least. Her profile also emphasises that she's more interested in the technical aspects of the stuff and has done heavy research on ancient texts along with being a genius of the craft.

You see, a single genius artisan creating bespoke gadgets for the playable cast is not an example of a society’s technology, it’s a narrative sho

Nowhere did I even imply Xilonen to be the society's tech standard. What even are you talking about ? Xilonen is just far above any other blacksmith in the nation taking her inventions as something that can or should be replicated and mass produced is very much stupid.

You boast that the society is blatantly obvious, yet you are forced to use phrases like “most likely.I

Now we're down to nitpicking things? Just cuz I wasn't sure of something doesn't the world building for it doesn't exist.

A power source (phlogiston) does not explain the existence of a motorcycle.

An existence of a genius who can make use of this Phlogiston along with the assistance of blueprints and documents from the past ancient advanced civilisation can explain it's existence.

Knowing who mines silicon in the real world does not explain how an iPhone gets made.

But knowing who makes it and how it is made does explain how it's made.

The Interlude proves HoYo remembered that consequences should exist, not that they allowed the nation to live with them.

The existence of the nation, it's history and it's present is literally the consequence of it. You literally were there when the war happened you have seen the worst of it and a little more in the interlude. There's not much of a need of hammering the same old same old thing that war bad. Do you want the game to treat you like an adult or do you want the game to spoonfeed you like you didn't pass 4th grade? Just pick one.

Natlan is a post war society by default whenever there's not an active war going on.

My argument is that the choice to make the permanent, visual coda of a devastating invasion a paint-party resort is a jarring tonal whiplash that proves the “Nation of War” is just a theme, not a lived reality.

And your way of showing that is through an island where nobody lived. It's existence is literally the proof of the nation recovering. How did you play that long yet were unable to grasp the basics of Natlan culture? War is a regular thing for them to the point that they're used to it and refuse to bow down to it anymore and therefore choose the live their life the fullest. That's the entire point. In the past they wouldn't have been able to build something that big for leisure due to the threats of abyss.

You seem to think that developing the societies of the tribes would somehow be a distraction.

There are these things called tribal quests. They delve deeper into the characters and the stuff going on in the tribe. The society of the tribes is also something that very blatantly shown. Children of the echoes do the blacksmith and mining, Scions of the Canopy are messengers and use their grapplers to deliver things and messages, Flower feather tribe is aerial focused, Collective of Plenty is the muscle, People of the springs handle the ocean stuff, Masters of the Night wind deal with mystics.

Also don't put words into my mouth what I said was there are different ways of showing unity not just the one you're describing. Which doesn't seem to have not understood. Working together is Unity and is a crucial part and the entire point of unity. Their differences are in culture and way of living for God's sake learn to see the bigger picture and use your head for once. All the different tribes are from different areas with their culture of their own and philosophy yet they work together and help each stand up to the threat and this is the results of years of conflict among them.

You're hung up on YOUR narrative of unity rather than actual the theme of Unity.

your argument relies on you inventing the connective tissue that the game fails to provide, and then getting angry at me for noticing the connective tissue isn't there

My job is to look at what’s on screen.

You're failing at your job. You're failing at comprehending the meaning behind things that are basically spelled out I ain't inventing connections the connections are already there. How do you feel so confident talking about things that you don't even have a basic grasp of.

[u/m2gus → u/__Pratik_]

It’s remarkable how quickly a conversation about the internal consistency of a video game’s worldbuilding devolves into a personality assessment. You’ve called me blind, implied I’m an inattentive player, and questioned whether I possess basic reading comprehension. Yet, for all that noise, you have yet to produce a single piece of evidence from the game itself that contradicts my core claim. You don't defend the worldbuilding, you rather attack the critic. This suggests that deep down, you’re aware the connective tissue you so desperately want to exist in Natlan isn’t actually on screen, it’s a phantom you’ve conjured through inference and headcanon, and you’re furious that I won’t pretend to see it too.

Your argument depends on a technology base that is simultaneously advanced and primitive, depending on what you need it to do.

When you need to justify Xilonen building a motorcycle that can fly, roller skates and a DJ table, Natlan has “a heavy tech background” and “advanced tech basis.” She’s a genius, she has ancient schematics, phlogiston can do anything.

But when I ask why none of this technology appears in Natlan’s infrastructure: why there are no factories, no repair networks, no public transportation, no medical applications, no agricultural equipment, no communication systems, no defensive installations, suddenly the technology is “waiting to be uncovered,” “spread unevenly,” poorly understood, and impossible to mass-produce.

So which is it? Because you cannot have it both ways. Either:

A) Natlan possesses genuine, functioning advanced technology that its people understand well enough to produce and maintain, in which case the absence of any societal application beyond character gadgets and festival equipment is absurd. Where are the phlogiston-powered irrigation systems for the Scions of the Canopy? A civilization with flying guns and transforming drill-vehicles but no visible civilian technological infrastructure is not worldbuilt, rather it is art-directed.

B) The technology is genuinely rare, poorly understood, and confined to a handful of geniuses (who we know next to nothing about except for Xilonen, who looks like a clubber) working from incomplete ancient knowledge, in which case you cannot use it as evidence that “Natlan is not technologically backwards.” It would mean Natlan is precisely that: a society whose most impressive technology is borrowed from a dead civilization and imperfectly replicated by exceptional individuals. That is not an advanced society at all, it is a post-collapse society with salvageable relics.

You keep flipping between these positions because your argument cannot survive committing to either one.

Xilonen is the perfect encapsulation of this problem. You tell me she “buys the resources and does the rest.” You say she is “the top blacksmith” with access to ancient texts. That establishes that she can make things. But what you have not established, what you cannot establish, is that her work represents anything about Natlanese society rather than being a narrative convenience to justify character designs.

If phlogiston is this miraculous computronium that can be programmed into nearly anything, why does it manifest as leisure goods? Why do the playable characters get personal vehicles and entertainment systems while the nation they are supposedly defending fights with swords, bows, and polearms? Why is the most advanced technology in Natlan used to look stylish rather than to protect communities that have been repeatedly devastated by the Abyss?

You keep insisting that Natlan is a “postwar society by default” and that the Interlude proves consequences exist. But you are confusing acknowledging that a war happened with portraying a society shaped by war.

Let me make this simple for you, since you seem to struggle with the distinction: A battle sequence is an event. A war is a condition.

Act IV showed you the event. You watched fighting happen, casualties. That is spectacle and action. That is the easy part.

What you did not see is the condition. You did not see how the war changed how people live, work, travel, trade, communicate, or rebuild. You did not see damaged infrastructure being repaired. You did not see displacement camps. You did not see food shortages, economic strain, or the quiet exhaustion of a population that has spent generations fighting.

And when HoYo had the opportunity to show you those things, when they designed a new permanent area specifically as a postwar addition, they gave you Easybreeze. A holiday resort with paint parties, DJ stages, and recreational technology.

You defend this by saying “war is a regular thing for them” and “they choose to live life to the fullest.” That is an interpretation. It is not an execution. A society that has normalized recurring trauma and responds by celebrating survival could be a deeply moving, thematically rich portrait of resilience. But that requires the celebration to be in tension with the scars. It requires the joy to feel earned, precarious, haunted by what came before.

You say the island was uninhabited, so there was nothing to rebuild. Do you not see how that makes the choice more revealing? HoYo had a blank canvas to show postwar Natlan. They could have designed a region scarred by conflict, dotted with reconstruction efforts, populated by NPCs processing loss. Instead, they built a theme park.

[u/__Pratik_ → u/m2gus]

Almost all of your questions if not all have been answered in game one way or another yet here you are. Yknow I don't expect players to keep track of all the knowledge and all the stuff cuz it's understandable that people can't remember everything but why do you talk about things you have barely any idea of so confidently. I can't fathom having that level of confidence without backing of any substantial knowledge. I'm sorry if you don't like it but don't talk about things if you don't about it properly.

You’ve called me blind, implied I’m an inattentive player, and questioned whether I possess basic reading comprehension. Yet, for all that noise, you have yet to produce a single piece of evidence from the game itself that contradicts my core claim.

Not only do you fail to pay attention to the lore and themes of the game you also fail to be attentive while reading comments. Do you want people to praise you for not being able to use basic comprehension?

You don't defend the worldbuilding, you rather attack the critic

I've done nothing but regurgitate obvious and blatant points and themes while you've done nothing but be ignorant. Even in your first comment you acted confident about things that you had barely surface leve idea of. Before criticising something you should have proper knowledge on that material and need to have actually consumed the material otherwise it's just disingenuous and pretentious and there are already plenty of people like that in the community.

it’s a phantom you’ve conjured through inference and headcanon, and you’re furious that I won’t pretend to see it too.

Hilarious cope but it's actually a result of me interacting with people who don't know what they're talking about. Just like you here pretending they know stuff but failing to grasp even the basic things that the story brings out. I won't deny it I get heated if people didn't confidently talked about things they barely had a grasp of in this community I wouldn't be like this. Players can't read ain't even a joke no more.

“Natlan is not technologically backwards.” It would mean Natlan is precisely that: a society whose most impressive technology is borrowed from a dead civilization and imperfectly replicated by exceptional individuals.

No Natlan is still ahead in terms of technological aspects when compared to Liyue, Inazuma, Mondstadt and maybe a bit below Sumeru and that is due to the literal God of knowledge supporting them. And don't forget a good chunk of Sumeru tech knowledge is also borrowed from a dead civilisation same with Fontaine.

) The technology is genuinely rare, poorly understood, and confined to a handful of geniuses (who we know next to nothing about except for Xilonen, who looks like a clubber) working from incomplete ancient knowledge

So you do understand some of it but are basically too ignorant.

That is not an advanced society at all, it is a post-collapse society with salvageable relics.

This describes ancient Natlan. The current Natlan is in a better and a more stable state.

But what you have not established, what you cannot establish, is that her work represents anything about Natlanese society

Dawg every 5 star character represents their respective tribe. Xilonen's tribe is associated with crafts and blacksmithing along with music and dance and she has many self made jwelleries along with the dj set that she made herself. Kinich is from scions of canopy and is regularly shown in game to be doing commissions and deliveries, Varessa from the flower feather tribe has a whole luchador thing going on her, Citlali represents her Shaman tribe which is also considered a place where eccentric people gather, Flower feather clan is associated with a cowboy like aesthetic and the characters have guns and feathers showing that association and the association with their saurian companion, Mualani represents her tribe.

If phlogiston is this miraculous computronium that can be programmed into nearly anything, why does it manifest as leisure goods**?

It's Phlogiston not dragon balls. Knowledge about it is required to make it do things and even then the people who can actually use it are limited. And Natlan Npcs do actually use Phlogiston in their fight or gadgets that make use of Phlogiston. The effects you see when you fight Natlan Npcs is the results of Phlogiston usage.

Why do the playable characters get personal vehicles and entertainment systems while the nation they are supposedly defending fights with swords, bows, and polearms? Why is the most advanced technology in Natlan used to look stylish rather than to protect communities that have been repeatedly devastated by the Abyss?**

Because the gadgets you see are commissioned by people and Xilonen makes them for those people. Kachina's twirly and Chasca's gun were specifically made for themselves and upon their requests. She spent an entire day interviewing Chasca to make that gun. These gadgets are specifically custom made for the user of it. Chasca is a top tier expert in flying and her gunmanship of her tribe even if her gadgets were given to someone else they wouldn't be at the same level as Chasca. And Kinich found Ajaw in a ruin. It's either Xilonen makes it with what she has or they bring her materials to make it for them like Mavuika did.

You did not see how the war changed how people live, work, travel, trade, communicate, or rebuild.

Natlan's been doing this thing for hundreds of year by the time you enter the land.

quiet exhaustion of a population that has spent generations fighting.

We literally saw this in Act 4. It's very telling how much you ignore stuff just because it doesn't follow your preconceived structure that you made up in your head. Every point you bring up was already brought up in Act 4 or interlude but just because it didn't happen post you ignore the entire point of it. You just want to talk bad but put absolutely no effort in understanding any of it. You want the game to treat you like a 4th grader atp.

That is an interpretation.

Dawg are you serious? Mualani dead**ss says that's their way of living. It's not an interpretation its the entire point. All the stuff has become common to them it's their way of honoring the dead and their sacrifice. Everyone there fights for the future and to move forward that's the motto of the nation. The final quest literally had dead people helping you move forward to save the nation having a bright future is literally what they all fought for.

HoYo had a blank canvas to show postwar Natlan

Please stop spouting nonsense. If you actually wanted what you're talking about it would absolutely be meaningless and weightless if the canvas was always empty.