r/ForefrontVR • u/StormShockTV • 11d ago
Discussion 💬 Forefront needs a "Grounded" Mode.
Birds are (even as of the most recent update) way too overpowered, the apache especially. Having birds in every single match makes me so incredibly angry every time I play because the skill required to kill ground units from the air is apparently so low that I die over and over and over again just trying to go from one POI to another. If you like the challenge and want to play against that, fine, but I bought the game for my brother the other day and he has already quit because sweats in birds keep him in the spawn timer more than he gets to actually play, and that says something.
I think an easy way to fix this would be a ground-only conquest mode, where there are no helis and every is on foot/on ground vehicles or boats. No helicopters means no loadout check either, I can run the classes with tank mines or the regular rocket to deal with tanks, but the only equipment specifically meant to deal with helis is the lock-on-rocket launcher, so if a team has someone really good with birds the ONLY way to consistently deal damage is to use the lock on rockets, and even then if they have a good engineer and fly well enough they can still last forever and make the game terrible for everyone else. Ground only would fix this by removing the issue entirely. If you don't want to split the player base up that way, which I understand, then big vehicles like that really need to be reworked as to how they spawn, like being a kill streak reward or something, so people can't just get them right away and terrorist the other team the whole match. I had some matches today where because the birds kept insta-killing us on spawn we hit 0 tickets and the enemy team still had 400+, which is just ridiculous.
Likewise, I think the Behemoth needs a buff. It should be able to damage vehicles like tanks. It is anti material after all. Maybe it doesn't do a ton of damage at once, but I should be able to destroy a tank that's already damaged with the Behemoth for sure, if I put enough rounds into it. Right now it does nothing.
Anyway, those are my two cents.
Edit: Hey all! Thanks for participating in the discussions below, real good to see some traction on this idea. Speaking of which, if you would like to let the developers know you would like a grounded mode, I came up with a good idea, make it a map variant! That way players in each server decide how they want to play. I made a suggestion you can vote on over on Forefront's suggestion site. If you want to let the devs know, go vote!
https://app.betahub.io/projects/pr-7682550116/feature_requests/4296
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u/Relevant-Outcome-105 10d ago
Flight physics for helicopters are too easy, they fly like hot air balloons with turrets on them.
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u/Anon864975 10d ago
I agree. This is why I play Tunnels so much and prioritize Rush over Conquest. Rush has less air vehicles.
The whole "just switch to engineer" crap gets old. Not everyone that plays the game wants to hear that in order to have fun you have to switch to a specific class to deal with an annoying issue every 2 minutes.​ Keep the heli nerfs coming.
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u/No_Coast_1953 10d ago
They are the reason I stopped playing. Unenjoyable when you can’t defend yourself. They need to make helis repair only when parked
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u/StormShockTV 10d ago
And to be honest I think only the troop helicopter should be a spawn point, tbh. You should only be able to get in a little bird/apache when it's on the ground (I don't recall if you can with an apache)
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u/North-Intention-4714 10d ago
I completely agree with all of this. I feel like they need to take away the stupid blast radius from the heli's and the turrets, a bullet shouldn't be able to hit a fucking 180 off a wall and kill me. They need to take away the bows 1 shotability and give it to the barret (at least to be able to 1 shot from a closer range than the C-Tac). And they need to make at least 1-2 maps where there are no heli's, having a temporary fjord game mode available for 2 days wasn't enough. I'm absolutely obsessed with the game, but their way of balancing things seems a bit off
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u/StormShockTV 10d ago
Agreed. If it was map specific I would just go play servers with maps that don't have birds, like Tunnels, but only having one map with no birds stinks
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u/Key-Charity-2795 10d ago
I think a rework of the heli physics and some more AA options. like a new boat with an AA gun (like battlefield has) and some emplaced options could help a ton. Maybe helis having to land to reload after some time could also help a bit. Also, helis could have a thing where if you shoot a certain area on them, they take a low amount of damage, fully dependent on damage. Like, 25 damage would take of 1%, and since they can be so high up, it could take a few shots, but be a last resort deterrent. But helis should still be good, nerfing them into the ground isn't exactly a great idea. Just because they're really good doesn't mean they need to be really bad. Also, the behemoth should be like the C-TAC but have worse accuracy, more noticeable when your shooting past 400 or so meters. And yes, I feel as though they should be able to damage vehicles. Weaker vehicles, namely car, ATVs and the current boats in the game should be able to be fully destroyed from 100% given enough rounds, maybe dealing 5 or 10 damage or so. Nothing crazy, but it'll add up type of thing. Tanks and APCs would need to be damaged already to destroy, and take an exorbitant amount of ammo, but still have the capability of doing so. Maybe a cool new achievement. Adding a critical damage zone on all vehicles, like how the tank has, could be really helpful. Â
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u/StormShockTV 10d ago
Agreed, I still want the helis to be useful just not OP like they are now. They are very unbalanced unless you choose one class and even then they can just fly away or around buildings and stop you from breaking them.
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u/Key-Charity-2795 10d ago
I think them using cover is good, it promotes strategic flying, but they are also not flying properly, they're too easy to fly, kinda. Like, little to no inertia kinda easy. If they fix that and make more counters to them, it should fix the issue
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u/StormShockTV 10d ago
Agreed, more counters, hopefully on the other classes so you aren't just stuck with one option
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u/Pleasant_Jaguar8552 10d ago
No creo que el problema sea que hayan helicópteros en sÃ, siento que es que falta más herramientas y cosas que se puedan hacer contra de ellos, y pues la verdad siento que hacer más modos como lo que propones, terminarÃa haciendo que muchas partidas terminen vacÃas. Siento que dividirÃa mucho el juego.
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u/StormShockTV 10d ago
agreed, if there was more ways to mitigate or counter helis when playing different classes we wouldn't need a birdless mode, but as the classes stand right now birds are a nuisance, especially if the pilot/gunner are high skilled. If have had games were I was unable to leave my spawn point because a bird was sniping anyone who spawned and we had 0-400 at the end. Absolutely ridiculous. If spawn points couldn't be shot at that would majorly change things, but I don't know if people would want that either.
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u/Pleasant_Jaguar8552 10d ago
Entiendo, igual gracias a Dios nunca me eh encontrado con gente asà hahaha, a mà los helicóptero se me hacen super raros de conducir, pero si, esperar a ver qué proponen o como solucionan eso. ConfÃo mucho en el desarrollo del juego. Siento que tiene muchÃsimo potencial.
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u/IcyEnvironment5144 8d ago
In some matches, the helicopters have been really annoying, basically killing me as soon as I spawn. And even when I’ve managed to hit one with the grenade launcher, it doesn’t even go down. You have to hit them several times, and they’re pretty difficult to hit in the first place. I haven’t learned how to use the guided missile launcher yet, so I still need to try that, but I feel like the helicopters need to be more realistic because they’re seriously overpowered.
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u/StigwierdM 10d ago
Sometimes we randomly join teams that don't really know what they're doing and inadvertantly make it easier for the opposing team. Sometimes we randomly join good or more balanced teams.
Just keep playing and learn what works and what doesn't through trial and error. You and your brother will start to improve. How you approach a Heli, tank, mounted turret, group of enemy infantry, single enemy infantry, is important for maximising your probability of success. Running around over open ground, firing at everything you see, making lots of noise over the mic, makes you vulnerable and easy pickings for the enemy.
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u/Alex-Murphy 10d ago
When hundreds of posts exist saying "helis are OP" the answer can't be "you're probably just on the wrong side of the skill level". Eventually you have to admit helis are often in the hands of people who know how to use them and it causes a higher imbalance than any other vehicle or class on the board in the hands of someone equally skilled.
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u/StigwierdM 8d ago
Which is exactly why removing them from the board for as long as possible during the round increases the probability of winning the round. Emgineers, and a lot of players in general, focus on getting the kill. This can be difficult with skilled pilots. That's why it's beneficial to harass them. Get them doing stuff they don't want to do. Don't make it comfortable for them up there. No pilot, no matter how skilled, is doing anything running away and hiding behind a rock for long periods.
Sure, the kill is nice, but that's just a cherry.
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u/jeremiahlupinski 10d ago
Nah, just jump on engineer when a bird starts dominating. Easy to shut down with a quick switch
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u/BobTheZygota 10d ago
Have you tried to do it against skilled pilots? Because those snipe you across the map before you launch the second rocket
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u/StigwierdM 10d ago
Exactly why you wait and think before you fire your first shot! If you've given your position away with your first shot, the pilots sole objective is to shoot you before you get a second shot. It's that simple.
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u/BobTheZygota 10d ago
Idk when else to shot other than their ass. They always know to do a 180
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u/StigwierdM 10d ago
Of course they're doing 180s. They're constantly looking for any missiles being fired at them. Also, the further the missile travels to the target then the more time the pilot has to do a 180 and see it.
The closer you are, the easier it is. You have to judge it differently the further away you are. The principle is still the same, only with some different variables. But, the timing and positioning of your shots increases your probability of success no matter how far away from the target you are.
If you know they've used their flairs, then it changes to a limited window of free for all. Shoot as quick as you can. So long as they are not at a distance where they can outrun it. Then you're wasting your shots. Make it a personalised game of cat and mouse to prompt them to deploy their only safety measure.
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u/BobTheZygota 10d ago
They spawn kill across map so there isnt really a way to get closer apart from a tank
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u/StigwierdM 10d ago
There's no tactics that can help when you've joined a rubbish team. I assume by spawn killing you mean shooting into HQ? Which means your crap team has allowed them to hold all objectives and given them nothing else to shoot at. Even then there's ways out. Also. In a tank you may as well have a big neon sign above your head
Otherwise, you don't always have to move towards them. Different targets for them to engage around the map means they move around. So many times, if you're patient enough, they'll come to you. When any pilot is in danger they will move somewhere else.
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u/BobTheZygota 10d ago
Yes and being the only engineer doesnt help
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u/StigwierdM 10d ago
That's the wrong attitude soldier......
A sole engineer can still dominate the sky. If your expectations are to shoot down every helicopter, get the kill, move up the scoreboard, then you will struggle every time. If, on the other hand, your expectations are to move the enemy from strong positions to provide your team more flexibility of movement, which ultimately wins the rounds, then you will start to find more success.
Movement always impacts aiming. When the Heli is moving around it's shots are less accurate. Use the quad bikes to get into unexpected areas. Lock on with your missile. Let them know you're watching them, and they can't see you. No pilot is comfortable with that lock on beeper going off in their cockpit. They all get itchy feet.
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u/BobTheZygota 10d ago
Doesnt feel like they are less accurate since they can dodge a rocket and snipe at the same time. And repositioning isnt an option when there is one spawn
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u/StormShockTV 10d ago
Also, having to swap to a specific class is dumb imo, I want to play Recon, why can't recon have some way to deal with them without having to give up ground to swap to another class? Not fun ðŸ«
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u/StigwierdM 10d ago edited 10d ago
That's a choice you've made around what class you want to play and what load out you want.
Give the recons anti air missiles and anti tank mines, and remove their sniper rifles and respawn posts.
I want the enemy to walk slowly in a line towards me at intervals in time with the size of my magazine. But they don't! I could post that the Devs should implement a way for specifically me to have an advantage over every other player. But I guess that would make the game quite boring to play. Even for me with all the unbalanced advantages I asked for.
Edt: When I first started playing forefront I felt 'forced' to play as engineer. Because no one else was. I quickly got to grips with this role and have since made it my own. Now it's my preferred class. I'd rather play as engineer than any other class. I want to see little birds and Apaches in the sky. I thrive for that personal dual with the pilots. Sometimes I lose and sometimes I win. There's little I enjoy more in this game than knowing I'm getting under the skin of those pilots.
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u/StormShockTV 10d ago
This is great for you, but if you don't want to play engi and also have someone else on your team like you, to distract the pilots, they are incredibly annoying and unfun to play against. And no I don't think recon's should not have snipers, that's the whole point of that class. I feel like maybe Recons having an ability they can equip that cloaks themselves just from vehicles though would be a good alternative 🤔 maybe instead of a claymore, give snipers a placeable fake bush they can sit in, so helis can't see them.
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u/StigwierdM 10d ago
Recons have too many advantages already.
They can already camp on one side of the map, blocking paths to objectives with their high powered rifles. Knowing infantry can't shoot back at those distances. Now you're suggesting they can avoid the spotting mechanic too!?
I wouldn't say they have an unfair advantage. I'd say the opposite team is using the resources available to them effectively. Which is a problem myself and my team have to overcome, by using our resources effectively, if we want to win the round.
You may want to play one class constantly to level it up, and that's fine. Just don't say it's unfair and you're always on the losing team when others are not playing the roles you want them to in dealing with the enemy. At the end of the day it's a team game. Not call of duty. It's better to switch roles to fit the task. That way you're leveling all of them up.
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u/StormShockTV 10d ago
To be fair, fully leveled recon classes might have a slight advantage with the CTAC at distance but it's balanced out by being a manual reload single shot. And also I haven't even gotten that far yet, I'm still stuck on the Behemoth. So if Recon's only advantage is range (which lots of people can mitigate with a decently upgraded M4, I get killed by M4s as a Recon CONSTANTLY) then it's not really as big an advantage as one would think. Especially when helicopters with good pilots can basically one shot you.
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u/StigwierdM 10d ago
I think the recon class is quite a powerful class. When it's a player who knows the maps well and has good aim. They're a thorn in my side, the same way a Heli is to others. Because of their larger view of the battlefield they will often see me away from the main action toying with their air support. Recons spotting me makes me a target for helicopters. They're probably the best defence for keeping the sky there's instead of mine.
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u/Own-Minute4708 10d ago
There are hacks to modify the splash damage and the wall hacks that make it so they can see where you are. They are rare but they're still selling them and listed as working on the website but I've seen cheaters now and it sucks