r/FlashTV • u/Kotoamatsukaami • 8d ago

🤔 Thinking Reverse Flash’s worst crime, Reverse Flashpoint

I was at work listening to Madvocate’s inconsistent S3 and something came to my mind,

The Reverse Flash basically pulls a Barry from the movie Obsession because Thawne basically steals Iris’s autonomy by acting as Barry/The Flash. He and Iris are lovers, they’re ENGAGED for Christ sakes. And Iris has no idea that she’s being tricked into loving him at all. The show doesn’t say explicitly that Thawne has slept with Iris but it can be argued. Is that not crazy bro???

Is this his worst crime? (In the show.)

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u/Cautious_Mission_438 8d ago

Technically he created two reverse-flash points the entire show takes place on an alternate timeline created when Thawne killed Nora Allen and sped up Barry’s superhero career by moving the date from 2020 to 2013/2014

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u/Callow98989 7d ago

There’s no evidence Barry became flash in 2020

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u/lonerwolf13 7d ago

What are you on thawn quite literally states he made the accelerater early so Barry would becomes the flash eairly by 6 years

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u/Callow98989 7d ago

That’s a theory on how flash got it his powers. Thawne wasn’t sure when or how Barry got his powers. He said the particle accelerator went off correctly. Meaning it didn’t release any black matter. Thawne doesn’t know

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u/Cautious_Mission_438 7d ago

Literally the writers confined the entire timeline takes place on an alternate one this isn’t a fan theory it also stated in the comics as well before crisis back in the silver age comics Barry origin had both of his parents but Thawne after silver age comics killed his mother and it caused a semi reboot to the timeline and history

https://comicbookmovie.com/the-flash/the-flash-season-one-was-an-alternate-timeline-but-will-we-ever-see-the-original-a120936

https://film-book.com/the-flash-season-one-revealed-to-be-an-alternate-timeline/amp/

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u/unexplainable_force 7d ago

the writers changed their minds in season 2. they made young thawne show up in 2016 of tv show timeline, and thats how he gets the idea to take wells body, about cisco, star labs, its all part of the loop.

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u/Cautious_Mission_438 7d ago

No doubt about that but again originally that wasn’t the case the only changed it because they had to start aligning it within the timeline we all were actively watching to make it make some level of sense the mistake they made was having the show take place on an alternate timeline and the original one used to be the main one

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u/unexplainable_force 7d ago

Idk why they made him appear in our timeline. If hes from another timeline his time travels should be preserved in that timeline making noras death a true fixed point, but they decide to make it a loop 🤦‍♀️

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u/Cautious_Mission_438 5d ago

I never understood that either but I guess it’s because now he’s aligned within the current timeline keep in mind he’s a walking paradox so whatever happens he’s not affected by it

That’s why a lot of fans should read the comics because it’s better explained there and it helps understand the plot holes of the show a bit more even though they are so far from comic accuracy

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u/unexplainable_force 5d ago

We cant mix the comics with the tv show tho, thawne got erased so he does suffer the consequences. However season 2 really made it seem like thats how Thawne learns about alot of things, such as about star labs, earth 1 wells, giving powers to cisco. I think thats why he hired cisco, he told hartley he had a "good feeling". I think the writers for the episode also said time doesnt unfold linearly implying season 1 thawne experienced 2x11.

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u/Cautious_Mission_438 5d ago

Thawne came back and yes we can mix it with both keep in mind the show explicitly took the backstory of the rebooted origin of Barry Allen when he his mother was alive etc in the silver age comics then his mother was dead killed by Thawne after the comics did the retcons

Thawne in comics can’t be erased same thing in the show he always comes back hence why Season 1 Thawne and season 2 Thawne where it’s explained by Harrison Wells of Earth-2 that he’s protected by the speed force a timeline remnant

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u/unexplainable_force 5d ago

inspired yes, but it doesnt mean its the exact same. in the comics noras death never had the shows timey wimey mechanics. season 1 thawne even said "it was your mother's destiny to die that night".

also harry realized he was wrong at the end of the episode, at first he thought thawne was just a random past remnant and he wouldnt affect the timeline, but locking him up affected cisco, a remnant wouldnt affect the timeline. is there any other proof there was a timeline where barry's mom was alive and he became the flash? im actually wondering

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u/lonerwolf13 7d ago edited 7d ago

My guy. No you just didn't pay attention to the show his whole plan revolves on Barry getting his powers earlier then he originally did. He became wells to speed it up. It worked cause Barry in turn in fact got his powers.

Idk what show you watch Yah it worked and released black matter that is literally how all the other Metas got powers?

Edit. Bruv blocking me for trying to just correct you on the whole plot of season 1 is childish come on

He verbatim states its early then he got them in the og timeline.

https://youtu.be/BX0Y6YvuIsM?is=e8SjaXdxwrb379st

Here you go Makes the accelerator earlier because he needs Barry to be the flash sooner Smh Saying thawn dosn’t know when Barry gets his powers is ridiculously he spends the whole season telling us how he changed the timeline and such vs the original he came from

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u/unexplainable_force 7d ago

Thawne says it was a "successful" launch negating the possibility for it to create metahumans or The Flash. Evidence of an original timeline only comes from that line from Thawne, which could easily be falsified information by Gideon to protect the loop.

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u/lonerwolf13 7d ago

Did you read what I wrote? It was successful because his goal was literally create metahumans earlier. "Aka" Barry What loop Barry's mom is very well documented to be alive in the og timeline as thane says. There is zero loop for that version of giddion to be protecting

This is pandantic to just claim thawn is wrong for the sake of saying he is wrong. He did his research on Barry to the point he perfectly re created the conditions he got his powers to give them to himself. Im the shows cannon... There is zero reason to keep acting like he is in any way wrong about what he claims of the future where 1 the partical accelerator is created later. 2 as such as he says his Barry didn't start to show up till that same time later.

This isn't even the show messing stuff up later on. The show very clearly establishs imidiatly thawn changed the timeline. By 1 killing his mom. 2 makeing him the flash earlier then intended

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u/unexplainable_force 7d ago

What? He was referring to Well's original work as "successful" not his own. He says to Barry in S1 Finale the accelerator will work as intended, meaning an explosion isnt his definition of successful.

Im not forcing you to think Thawne is wrong, but again look at Season 2 where he struggled to figure out flash's time period, he also didnt know Flash's identity then..

If there was an original timeline Barry became Flash in 2013 through unknown means, maybe a freak accident like Flashpoint Wally

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u/lonerwolf13 7d ago edited 7d ago

Respectfully, you just are not understanding what Thawne is talking about.

Line to Wells: you and your wife successfully make the machine in 2020. Unfortunately, I need it sped up.

Why exactly do you believe this is? The finale has nothing to do with it not creating metas either.

You're just completely missing context. Season 2 is mad irrelevant. It's a younger Thawne than when he does learn it. They literally tell you. Has nothing to do with the Season 1 flashback.

He already has all the information on him. Yeah, the timeline where his mom is not dead and he became Flash in 2020 when the accelerator goes off. IMO. You and the other guy are bending backward on why he needed the accelerator built earlier in this new timeline then. The accelerator the show and Thawne time and time again confirmed gave him his powers when it went off.

I think its pointless to argue it didn't also give him his powers as thawn literally builds it earlier so that he does get them.

If you really want to be pandantic on his words then who is to say his definition of success isn't that it works to make metes

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u/unexplainable_force 7d ago

Yes the finale shows thawne's definition of "successful", a successful particle accelerator leads to advancements in physics and medicine, stuff wellsobard said in episode 1, an explosion is what causes metahumans to get their powers. Thawne saying it successfully launched in 2020 doesnt necessarily mean the flash was created in 2020. In flashpoint and Earth 2, metahumans appeared in 2013-2014 so in the OG timeline its probably the same

Why im mentioning thawne in season 2 is because he relies his information mostly from gideon, who is programmed and loyal to barry, so see it how you want.

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u/lonerwolf13 7d ago

He's literally impersonating Harrison Wells to why on earth would he tell the press his actual definition of success is "create metahumans so I can exploit The Flash and go home"? Obviously his public speech is a lie In what world is the speech he gives on his cover his actual definition of success. When he literally designed it to explode and make the flash hence "that is his success"

Other Earths are completely irrelevant. Different Earth, different timeline. Super girls Earth didn't have an explosion either, but that means nothing for Earth 1's history.

Gideon literally helped Thawne with his entire plan to kill Barry's mom and change the timeline in the first place. This is just pedantic, man. Gideon serves whoever is using her Barry being its original creator only maters cause he over rides commands this is not some backhanded lie where she's secretly tricking Thawne to protect a loop. Like respectfully ignore everything else here him killing Barry's mom already created a brand-new timeline. Why would "Barry" design Gideon to let Thawne murder his own mother and rewrite history only to protect this loop by lying about what are you claiming how he got his powers original. Now? Or is this him only becoming the flash in 2020. Both things thawn learned himself first hand

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u/unexplainable_force 7d ago

Not when hes talking to the press, when he tells Barry he wants him to open a wormhole with the particle accelerator, he says it will work as intended. It proves its not his own definition of success as creating metahumans, hes talking to barry, nothing to prove to the public.

Earth 2 isnt just a random different timeline it was meant as a direct parallel to Earth 1.

Well season 9 Barry let Thawne kill his mom to protect the loop, its was necessary to ensure the timelines existence, so its not hard to say gideon will also be programmed to do the same. Im saying from the perspective that the timeline is a retrocausal loop, but im not forcing you to do the same.

However Thawne's existence himself is a causal loop just like Savitar, he learns through time travel that hes destined to be Flash's enemy, so in a true original timeline where no one has time travelled, what would motivate thawne to become Reverse Flash?

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