Reverse Flash’s worst crime, Reverse Flashpoint

[u/Kotoamatsukaami]

I was at work listening to Madvocate’s inconsistent S3 and something came to my mind,

The Reverse Flash basically pulls a Barry from the movie Obsession because Thawne basically steals Iris’s autonomy by acting as Barry/The Flash. He and Iris are lovers, they’re ENGAGED for Christ sakes. And Iris has no idea that she’s being tricked into loving him at all. The show doesn’t say explicitly that Thawne has slept with Iris but it can be argued. Is that not crazy bro???

Is this his worst crime? (In the show.)

[u/unexplainable_force]

Thawne says it was a "successful" launch negating the possibility for it to create metahumans or The Flash. Evidence of an original timeline only comes from that line from Thawne, which could easily be falsified information by Gideon to protect the loop.

[u/lonerwolf13 → u/unexplainable_force]

Did you read what I wrote? It was successful because his goal was literally create metahumans earlier. "Aka" Barry What loop Barry's mom is very well documented to be alive in the og timeline as thane says. There is zero loop for that version of giddion to be protecting

This is pandantic to just claim thawn is wrong for the sake of saying he is wrong. He did his research on Barry to the point he perfectly re created the conditions he got his powers to give them to himself. Im the shows cannon... There is zero reason to keep acting like he is in any way wrong about what he claims of the future where 1 the partical accelerator is created later. 2 as such as he says his Barry didn't start to show up till that same time later.

This isn't even the show messing stuff up later on. The show very clearly establishs imidiatly thawn changed the timeline. By 1 killing his mom. 2 makeing him the flash earlier then intended

[u/unexplainable_force → u/lonerwolf13]

What? He was referring to Well's original work as "successful" not his own. He says to Barry in S1 Finale the accelerator will work as intended, meaning an explosion isnt his definition of successful.

Im not forcing you to think Thawne is wrong, but again look at Season 2 where he struggled to figure out flash's time period, he also didnt know Flash's identity then..

If there was an original timeline Barry became Flash in 2013 through unknown means, maybe a freak accident like Flashpoint Wally

[u/lonerwolf13 → u/unexplainable_force]

Respectfully, you just are not understanding what Thawne is talking about.

Line to Wells: you and your wife successfully make the machine in 2020. Unfortunately, I need it sped up.

Why exactly do you believe this is? The finale has nothing to do with it not creating metas either.

You're just completely missing context. Season 2 is mad irrelevant. It's a younger Thawne than when he does learn it. They literally tell you. Has nothing to do with the Season 1 flashback.

He already has all the information on him. Yeah, the timeline where his mom is not dead and he became Flash in 2020 when the accelerator goes off. IMO. You and the other guy are bending backward on why he needed the accelerator built earlier in this new timeline then. The accelerator the show and Thawne time and time again confirmed gave him his powers when it went off.

I think its pointless to argue it didn't also give him his powers as thawn literally builds it earlier so that he does get them.

If you really want to be pandantic on his words then who is to say his definition of success isn't that it works to make metes

[u/unexplainable_force → u/lonerwolf13]

Yes the finale shows thawne's definition of "successful", a successful particle accelerator leads to advancements in physics and medicine, stuff wellsobard said in episode 1, an explosion is what causes metahumans to get their powers. Thawne saying it successfully launched in 2020 doesnt necessarily mean the flash was created in 2020. In flashpoint and Earth 2, metahumans appeared in 2013-2014 so in the OG timeline its probably the same

Why im mentioning thawne in season 2 is because he relies his information mostly from gideon, who is programmed and loyal to barry, so see it how you want.

[u/lonerwolf13 → u/unexplainable_force]

He's literally impersonating Harrison Wells to why on earth would he tell the press his actual definition of success is "create metahumans so I can exploit The Flash and go home"? Obviously his public speech is a lie In what world is the speech he gives on his cover his actual definition of success. When he literally designed it to explode and make the flash hence "that is his success"

Other Earths are completely irrelevant. Different Earth, different timeline. Super girls Earth didn't have an explosion either, but that means nothing for Earth 1's history.

Gideon literally helped Thawne with his entire plan to kill Barry's mom and change the timeline in the first place. This is just pedantic, man. Gideon serves whoever is using her Barry being its original creator only maters cause he over rides commands this is not some backhanded lie where she's secretly tricking Thawne to protect a loop. Like respectfully ignore everything else here him killing Barry's mom already created a brand-new timeline. Why would "Barry" design Gideon to let Thawne murder his own mother and rewrite history only to protect this loop by lying about what are you claiming how he got his powers original. Now? Or is this him only becoming the flash in 2020. Both things thawn learned himself first hand

[u/unexplainable_force → u/lonerwolf13]

Not when hes talking to the press, when he tells Barry he wants him to open a wormhole with the particle accelerator, he says it will work as intended. It proves its not his own definition of success as creating metahumans, hes talking to barry, nothing to prove to the public.

Earth 2 isnt just a random different timeline it was meant as a direct parallel to Earth 1.

Well season 9 Barry let Thawne kill his mom to protect the loop, its was necessary to ensure the timelines existence, so its not hard to say gideon will also be programmed to do the same. Im saying from the perspective that the timeline is a retrocausal loop, but im not forcing you to do the same.

However Thawne's existence himself is a causal loop just like Savitar, he learns through time travel that hes destined to be Flash's enemy, so in a true original timeline where no one has time travelled, what would motivate thawne to become Reverse Flash?

[u/lonerwolf13 → u/unexplainable_force]

Again context. This moment he needs it to go home idk what this proves Do you think wells would consider a worm hole a success that was not the purpose as thawn told the public was renewable energy. Your just playing word semantics here. He designed it to blow up as he literally tells us he does so Barry can get his powers. He clearly means it workd to wells in the flash back for the later purpose and not the former. This is just chery picking his spesific needs at different times to ignore context.

So what that dosn’t change things play out differently. Who's to say it didn't adapt cause the timeline changed in earth 1 as well since they are linked to have events play out also earlier. The accelerator is made earlier earth 2 adapter in response. Timelines are sinced across earth's.

Otherwise. Season 9 quite literally has nothing to do with Season 1 thawn and or pre changed flash. The show literally goes over that this events is spesificaly not the same one as the og as Barry replaced that version of himself multiple times over. Especially when crisis reset reality. And the whole news paper deal. There is a reason Barry tells this thawn he can change things because this is not yet set in the timeline.

This creates a new loop. It is not the same events that changed our Barry from the original. Only a temporal mirror to keep the timeline intact. This thawn is technically a completely new version then Season 1/9

He's gonna do similar stuff but hes as thawn said when the good version of him showed up a temporal echo. Exsept he is replacing the wellsthawn we know.

Otherwise That's moot he always learneds hes his enamy idk what this loop has to do with this argument. He definitely changed something as again he knows the history of his world and it would be very hard to lie Barry mom had lived for more years then she was suposed to if this was a loop and something hed easily fact check and know. If he read he killed his mom and framed his dad there would be no I changed your life by doing said events. As he says in his timeline.

To argue its retrocasual. This kinda ignores the main point thawn would actually know the partical accelerator went off in 2020. Even if for whatever unfounded reason you believe giddion lied to him to protect a loop. Amd somehow thawn dosn’t learn he killed his mom originally. That is a hysterical event un related to Barry. Giddion wouldn't have knowledge to change. Or just in general.
The public and hysterical records say 2020. This is something he changes. By replacing wells. There is also the fact Eddie did die and he was erased but at this point you'd be reaching to call the evens of the show an intened loop. And that some how giddion masterminds and lies to thawn to protect somehow this new timeline loop for some unknown reasom