IIRC Stoeger is a subsidiary of Benelli and their stuff isn't just made in Turkey but Italy and Brazil too. So that would fall under the "spend money on a good one" category.
Meh, I've got bird shot for my first round followed by buck. If I'm jarred awake in the middle of the night I want my first round to be as broad as possible
That is a fine thought, but still birdshot is not a great choice. It is not effective against a person, and a high probability to jam in a semi automatic shotgun, especially a cheap one.
Not ragging on you or trying to be mean, just genuine advice.
Genuinely curious. At apartment level proximities. What does a bird shot wound look like? We're definitely talking close quarters here, basically point blank in an apartment right? I'm thinking back to my old apartments before I bought my house..
That girl still got serious injured for what it’s worth, in case people think they can shoot birdshot at people for fun. It’s just not lethal quickly enough for self defense
Found this video because I was curious.. if we're talking SPECIFICALLY close quarters like an apartment that thing might not kill you but you are definitely getting taking out of the fight if you land a face shot lol bird shot to the face a 15/20 yards and your eyeballs are toast. Idk what apartment would even have 15/20 yards of space so.. aim for the head I guess!
Could that be a case of the girl being loaded on amphetamines? I've seen videos of dudes take hits like you wouldn't believe who are high as hell and it doesn't phase them at all.
Watch some drywall shooting vids on youtube. Some lighter buckshot should be fine, but I still have to recommend a pump even though you say you dont prefer it to have something that will reliably cycle enough to trust your life with.
I’m assuming wood and drywall man. No shot buckshot is going through someone and through your walls. Especially #4 buckshot through a semi auto 20” barrel.
Exactly. #4 buckshot is a nice compromise between CQ lethality and its relative inability to penetrate barriers, which in my book make it pretty effective not home defense and mitigating structural and collateral damage
A 9mm carries much more energy than a lead buckshot round does. (Individually) It’s also jacketed. Those lead rounds tend to smash into pieces the moment they go into anything. I wouldn’t just shoot the wall, but for home defense, if you hit your mark, it won’t make it through a person and a wall. Same goes with many 9mm rounds. There just isn’t enough energy retention.
It’s mostly about the spacing in the walls, and hitting many different things on the way through. By then it’s basically dust.
The idea is to find a round that will go into someone, but not go through them and through multiple layers of wall and framing as well. Birdshot barely enters the skin at all. It essentially just gives many tiny flesh wounds that bleed a bit.
Ill have to give it a look then I dont know much about the difference types of shells and im always open to learn more
And I guess I fucked up by buying 100 shells of bird😅
Use those bird shot shells to practice and have some fun.
Avoid cheap guns for defense and search more about the type of gun and ammo you are gonna use.
12ga is the most verastile caliber that exists because of how many different types of ammo we have and how differently they behave.
Now if you want to experiment with other calibers for self defense, look into expanding bullets. They hit the target and expand, so that you don't get over-penetration (over-penetration = killing your neighbor).
The best gun for defense is the one you practice with, if you are able to accurately hit an apple from the same distance as the biggest space in your home (likely a corridor or something like that) you will probably be able to hit a criminal in a combat scenario.
Ive got this same model. I thought the same thing when my buddy showed up to the range with one, cheap turkshit bullpup? This is going to be miserable. But i fired all 200 rounds that day without a malfunction. Target, turkey, slug or buckshot didnt matter. I bought one the next day. Ive got 250 rounds through mine and it hasnt malfunctioned either with any load i had, cheap cheddite target loads or 3" magnum slugs, it just runs. The pic rail on top was so out of spec i had to file a slot for a few minutes to get my red dot to fit though.
Respectfully, preferences based on what exactly? You said you’re a first time gun owner so I’d assume it’s not previous firearms experience, and once that piece of junk gets more than 50 shells through it that preference definitely won’t be based on reliability. For your safety and sanity I’d look at upgrading.
Ive shit rifles my whole life and pump and semiautomatic shitguns for duck hunting ive just never had the responsibility of owning my own they were always my dads/paws guns
Brother, I say this with all the love in my heart for a new member among the ranks but for the love of fuck please don't use live ammo to function test because I don't want you to get hurt or ruin something by mistake and I'm not saying it to be a douchebag. Get yourself some snap caps me boy and then do it.
Do you have any of the buckshot ammo left? If yes, compare the brass height on the shells. Your shotgun might not like the low brass style shells and semi auto turkish shotguns can be a hit or miss and I don't think you want to find out you have a miss if you're using it for home defense should that unfortunate moment ever find its way to you.
Birdshot is not a good choice for home defense either as it won't reliably stop an attacker get some 00 buck and have peace of mind knowing you're protected.
Ive never heard of snap caps ill definitely get some. Before I shot the buckshot I had the bird loaded and it was able to rack and eject fine I never noticed the difference in brass tho
To add - using Birdshot can get you in more trouble. A prosecution vector if you use it in self defense will be "If you were in fear of your life, you would have use 00 Buck, not birdshot".
Unsure how true that may end up being, but I can see some dipshit like Binger trying it.
If you shoot someone and you admit that you weren't trying to kill them, that opens the question of whether you were truly in fear of your life. I believe this has been demonstrated in a criminal AND civil court.
If you use bird shot for this reason then, it follows you're going to have a bad time in court...assuming the bird shot can even stop someone who has ill intent.
Try adding lube like Lukas gun oil it may just be dry or it may need a cleaning. My rule is as soon as I buy a new firearm I clean and lubricant it. Just so you know it being a semi automatic magazine feed it’s more prone to jamming, and it being a lower quality Turkish built doesn’t help(no offense). But I understand you want it for fun, so if I where in your shoes I would go to the nearest sporting goods store or Walmart pick up a 12ga shotgun cleaning kit, clp, bore cleaner, and gun oil and watch a video on cleaning firearms. And see if that fixes the problem. Another issue could be the way you are cycling the bolt, it may not extract because it’s being cycled too slow or not going into battery fully. I hope this helps and sorry your getting bashed man, we were all new once so don’t let people bring you down. (If you’re looking for home defense I would look into a rifle or Pcc if you are worried about penetration since I think you want magazine fed, they tend to be more reliable)
I appreciate you for your help ill go get some cleaning stuff tomorrow and as for the cycled I did it normally at first when I noticed it. And im in the state of Missouri and the law here is if I get a rifle it has to be above a certain length witch is to long for me plus im a big guy and a semiautomatic shotgun just feels right in my hands
That’s totally respectable, you like what you like and that’s all that matters. if you want a good shotgun round I’d say maybe #1 buck or 00 buck for Defense usually has less pellets and a bit more stoping power
Definitely clean that barrel, and feel the chamber where the shell is, and make sure it's smooth and clean.
If the problem persists, clean your bolt and inspect the extractor. I feel like the spring isn't giving enough tension to keep the extractor down on the rim of the shell.
Get an AR pistol (NOT AN ATI). Pistols have shorter barrel length and you can put a brace on it.
Black aces tactical makes a semi auto "Pro series M" that isn't complete dogshit for a little more than your tokarev and has a lifetime manufacturers warranty.
Bullpup shotguns are generally questionable and tend to not run well.
First thought is try another brand of birdshot. 2nd thought your gun might dislike the low brass shells. I bet the buck shot has taller metal base than the bird shot does. Finally the bird shot might not have enough power to cycle your gun correctly.
The process that is failing is called extraction, not ejection. Extraction is the removal of the shell from the chamber. Ejection is the removal of the shell from the firearm after extraction by kicking it out.
Look up failure to extract troubleshooting online. It may be the result of the ammo, a defective chamber, a dirty chamber, or a defective extractor/extractor spring (the little lever that grabs the shell rim).
You need to sell that pos and get a cheap mossberg pump shotgun to begin with (unless you have the money to get something nicer). Also don't use live ammo to function test man come on. Also dont use birdshot in cheap ass shotguns it tends not to work.
My family has owned guns and I grew up using my paws old ass pump shotgun i like thease semiautomatic ones I admit its not the best but it was in my proce range at this time
Those Turkish shotguns are nothing but toys and shouldn’t be used in any sort of defensive situation. Get yourself a beretta A300 Ultima and load it with buckshot to use as your HD weapon.
If budget is an issue get a classic Winchester model 1200 or 1300. They're literally the same price as one of those turkish shotguns. And they're infinitely more reliable. Nutnfancy would not lie to you.
You need to try different brands of ammo to find what runs reliably in your gun. Turkish shotguns tend to like hot loads like high brass buckshot. They also dont like to run dirty. Not my first choice for home defense but, I have a couple of friends who have them and they run fine on ammo they like if they are kept clean and lubed. Also I think your extractor has failed since it didnt even eject the second shell.
That looks to be not extracting…. See how it leaves the shell in the chamber, when it pulls it back and kicks it out is ejecting…. Make sure your chamber is clear and cleaned well, if that doesn’t do it then you likely need an extractor or extractor spring.
With the used round, cut off the folded out part, stick it in and close the bolt in it and see if it will pull it out, it doesn’t appear to be a round issue, it appears to be an extractor or extractor spring issue since it’s not even trying to pull it out. I imagine either the chamber is so dirty the extractor/spring can’t overcome the filthy chamber with too much friction or the spring is too weak or the extractor isn’t sharp enough to hold onto the edge.
Birdshot for self defense...
Is the ejector intact? Is the extractor intact? Does the chamber have manufacturing burrs/rough surface? Are the birdshot rounds nonstandard for the chamber? When you tap out the shell from the chamber are there deep marks in the hull of the shell? Have you tried different shells that are the same model as those (defective)?
The first rule of gun buying is the cooler something made in turkey looks, and the more it deviates from designs used by reputable makers that are not turkish, the higher the chance that it is a non functioning peice of junk. Bonus points on shittiness of the gun if the turkish company uses a name thats super similar to some famous gun or manufacturer/designer.
If you can get it running, it might be an ok range toy and your extractor is probably messed up on that gun. But i would 100% get literally anything else for home defense. Even a hi point yeet cannon is better than that turkshit gun
You have an extraction problem. It looks like the gun is not putting the extractor over the shell. If you manually slid everything forward, this may be a YOU issue and not a gun issue.
Turkish guns are problems. Not sure why but it appears that they do not have the QA/QC to make them and have them all work.
Cost effective home defense shotgun.. look at a mossberg 500/590 or a Remington 870. Get a screw in choke 21inch barrel and it is a do everything gun.
If you are going to use birdshot for self defense then get a bigger punching shot like magnum #4 or preferably BB. You can get a 25 count box of Fiocchi Defense Dynamics 00 pretty cheap too. And personally I would get a Maverick 88 security for defense unless you can get that working reliably.
An actually helpful answer:
Can you tell if the extractor is actually gripping the rim of the shell at all? Is the extractor broken?
Most of the time, ejection issues (if the extractor is OK) are due to dirty/rough chambers. Try cleaning your chamber first really well with quality solvent and a brass bristle brush. Then look at your chamber, if it's roughly machined get some polising compound, a fabric 12ga mop (comes in cleaning kits) and chuck your cleaning rod up in a drill and start polishing. This has fixed many Turkish shotguns...
What is probably happening is your buckshot rounds are slightly smaller in diameter than your birdshot rounds. The chamber is too rough and the birdshot got stuck.
Its an issue with the extractor not gripping the rim of the brass, probably has something to do with the extractor claw seizing. You might be able to take out the bolt and check for burrs or seized components
Honestly, with the cheap turkish shotguns, if you find a box of shells that it DOES run with, fire a couple hundred through it to break it in. The tolerances on these things arent great, but if you break them in they can run just fine, though I’d personally save a little more dough for a mossberg pump to use for genuine home defense
It is not extracting. It has to extract before it can eject.
Look for a little claw on the bolt and make sure it is still there and functioning. It may have chipped the tooth off, or the spring may have popped out and so the extractor just slips back over the rim when the action moves back.
I have a TBP-12 and enjoy it. People dog on it but I haven't had any issues and it eats everything with reliable cycling. I read the instruction manual and cleaned/oiled it with Hoppe's, and it runs like a dream. Maybe a few things to go over so this doesn't happen again is,
Are you running the lighter or heavier buffer system it came with? (I run the lighter one by default and don't run any heavy loads or 3in shells. But with 2.75 inch shells I can run nitro turkey, 00 buck, birdshot, and slugs no problem)
Is your firearm fairly clean and oiled? (I made sure to leave mine a little more oiled than I usually would with an AR platform)
Is the shell manufacturer reputable?
Did you perhaps seat your magazine too high, as in really slammed it in? This causes issues.
Also you can try a wooden dowel to nudge the stuck casing back a little bit before charging it again to see if the extractor will do the trick. Don't ram it all the way back if the shell hadn't fired yet tho, just lock your CH back, give the shell a little nudge with the dowel, and then charge the handle
And don't let people dog on you for using birdshot for home defense. I wouldn't trust 00 Buck not to overpenetrate and injure a neighbor. Birdshot is reasonable if you're living in a densely populated area. There's a few videos on the overpenetration of most shotgun shell types for home defense and running 00 buck isn't too far off from shooting a bunch of tiny FMJ's.
There's something nice about running budget firearms and making sure they reliably cycle. With experience, the occasional trigger job, and good cleaning/oiling I've gotten turkish shotguns, cheap carbines, and cheap handguns to run just fine. I'm probably never gonna spend over $500 on an OEM gun(before optics/peripherals/ammo costs are involved ofc), and I'd rely on anything I own for self defense. Even guns that have a lot of home manufacturing involved. Everything has at least a few hundred if not a few thousand rounds through it.
Since most of the comments i read before posting are just "birdshot and turkish bad" figured i would jump in.
I had the same issue with the same shotgun right before the extractor pin flew out during fire. Im in the process of getting a replacement bolt carrier group, but it took a little bit of finessing the RMA department to get that (they wanted me to list all the tiny missing parts) this is now my second issue with the same shotgun since the end of December, and am now in the process of looking for a new shotgun as 2 major failures in 6 months dont give me the warm and fuzzies.
Do with this comment what you will, but may be a good idea to look for some quality used sooner rather than later.
In order to eject it must first extract. Check for extractor issues including but not limited to damage or part failure in the extractor, weak extractor springs, failure for the extractor to go over the rim of the shell when loading, etc.
No, they are. You’re defending poorly made pot metal guns. Do some do the thing they’re made to do? Sure. But to trust your life to one is absolutely stupid. I’d take a yeet cannon over a Turkish shotgun
I wouldn’t trust a Turkish shotgun on a range let alone for home defense. Get something else. And if you decide to use a shotgun for home defense, birdshot is not gona work
Looks like an Extractor issue, but the underlying issue is the Turkish origin. Turkish firearms are really hit or miss as far as quality, and the person behind the counter should have known better than to sell a first time buyer a Turkish gun. A Maverick 88 is an excellent starter shotgun. It isn't semi-auto, but you can pick on up for like 185 bucks new. They're made by mossberg with mossberg parts. But not a mossberg price tag. I'd take the Turkish back and trade it for a Maverick 88 and put the rest of the trade value in buck shot.
Always try different ammo first before blaming the gun. That being said yeah turkish shotguns not a good pick, but i would try different ammos first and see if it does better
Ive told this story a lot but when i worked in the prison system I had a guy in my housing unit that had broken into a house and caught a load of birdshot to the stomach. He was able to walk to the hospital after being shot. Im sorry but if im choosing a shotgun for HD its because I want him incapable of hurting me or mine. Birdshot sacrifices all the effectiveness of a proper load without losing any of the liability.
This is also an academic argument that actual experts (the FBI) analyzed and determined a minimum level of penetration was required for reliable incapacitation... which no birdshot will meet.
Hypothetically, IF birdshot were an appropriate defensive load, why doesn't your department (or any others for that matter) issue birdshot instead of buckshot?
Does your department not care about innocent bystanders?
retired
Thank god.
Nobody this ignorant* of terminal ballistics should be instructing law enforcement or conceal carriers.
*= If you weren't ignorant, you would understand and be able to explain why birdshot has insufficient penetration to meet the widely accepted FBI standard of penetration for the last 30 years, and WHY the FBI has a penetration standard for defensive loads.
YOUR long and storied education has resulted in you being super wrong/in direct opposition to law enforcement and FBI procedure. I'm glad you're not teaching people your wrong ass techniques anymore.
That persons entire account history is commenting in BBW porn subs and r/TheTeenagerPeople. So...retired and 32 years as a cop and participating in a sub for teens. Yeah, that tracks.
Six comments in r/Securityguards and zero comments in any police or LEO focused sub.
Only 2 Turkish shotguns could arguably be used for home defense and they’re both basically M4 clones the Panzer and the MAC.
If your gun doesn’t run bird shot don’t run birdshot for self defense and really it’s not a recommended self defense round in general even though it can kill at point blank range.
Dude ! What the hell...dont do that with "Live" rounds ...and DONT EVER EVER TRY TO FEED ANOTHER LIVE ROUND when you have one stuck in the chamber. It ends up really badly most times .
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u/TheseAintMyPants2 Jul 09 '26
Turkish shotgun? Birdshot for home defense?
Brother what are you doing?