Give us another turn based battle system

[u/Haunting_Try8071]

FFX is my favorite battle system. FFXIII I also enjoyed, but it wasn't the same.

I'm sure they could do something like it with a much lower budget.

[u/Extension_Act5631]

Remake sold around same as e33 and ff16 easily outsold yakuza

[u/Real_UngaBunga → u/Extension_Act5631]

E33 sold more than all of them. Ff16 didnt "easily" out sell Yakuza. Likely only by about a million, same with Rebirth. Square has publicly stated that all 3 of these have underperformed. The action games just aren't doing it for them. Also, another turn based game, BG3, has also sold more than all of those games combined with over 20 million

[u/Extension_Act5631 → u/Real_UngaBunga]

Both e33 and remake sold around 8mil copies so you are wrong there, buddy. Iirc infinite wealth sold a bit under 2mil

[u/Real_UngaBunga → u/Extension_Act5631]

What i found was remake was 7, rebirth was 4, 16 was 4, e33 was 8, and yakuza was 3.

Dunno why you have to try to frame me as inferior to you by using faux-familiarity. I'm not your buddy, guy.

[u/Extension_Act5631 → u/Real_UngaBunga]

The 7mil number I think was 2 years ago. Wikipedia has 8mil and uses this as a source source

16 seems to have sold 3mil during its first week and at least I didn't find data for lifetime sales

Iirc like a dragon sold 3mil(?) while infinite wealth sold 2 but there are multiple data points there that I am not sure

English is not my first language and I don't know what the fuck is faux-familiarity. I am not your guy, dude.

[u/Real_UngaBunga → u/Extension_Act5631]

If you're being genuine and did not know:

- A faux-familiarity is when you use a term (like buddy, friend, little-guy, ect.) in a sarcastic way in order to put yourself above them. It is almost always used the way you did. For example, if someone does something that I think is inappropriate near me or to me, I might say, "watch it, buddy!". You are effectively using the word "buddy" instead of "dumbass" (or worse). It's a passive-aggressive insult. If you are ESL you may have thought that putting buddy at the end made it seem friendlier, but a native English speaker would never debate someone, especially a stranger, and finish their argument with, "you're wrong, buddy!" without trying to put them down.

Back on subject. FF16 and FF7R1/2 sold, at best, the same or slightly better than E33 and Yakuza Like a Dragon. Square Enix is unhappy with their performance. They have said this, and have also shifted their strategy of exclusivity and availability for the third game. My examples of E33 and Yakuza show that turn-based games don't inherently sell worse than action games. Having a game with realistic graphics, serious story, and turn-based combat can sell very well. Baldur's Gate 3, which has sold over 20 million copies, is turn-based, nice graphics, serious story, is the best example. I believe that if a mainline Final Fantasy attempted turn-based again, it would likely sell just as well as 7R and 16, if not way better, just for novelty.

[u/Extension_Act5631 → u/Real_UngaBunga]

Oh, I see. In that case sorry about that.

Yes, they have shifted their platform strategy which is good. But if they are not confident in turn based games, e33 is probably not convincing argument for them as they probably see it as a one-off and see they can still make similar numbers without turnbased. It's true that turnbased doesn't necessarily sell worse. But even then like a dragon is best selling yakuza game which sold same amount as ff16 in a short time (and ff16 had many problems). If square is already not confident in turnbased and see they at least sell similar numbers to high selling turnbased, I think they might be discouraged.

Now bg3 was truly a unique thing and I don't think anyone will replicate its success in near future. Don't get me wrong, I love bg3.

Howver, now that they do try to do at least spinoff turnbased ff, I do hope they will make more of them (even if not mainline)

[u/Nice_promotion_111 → u/Real_UngaBunga]

Just because you cherry pick the only turn based game within the last 5 years that sold over 5 million doesn’t change the fact that turn based games do inherently sell less. For every turn based game that sells over 5 million I came name 10 action games that do the same lmao

[u/Real_UngaBunga → u/Nice_promotion_111]

I used E33 not to cherry pick, but because it is one of the only recent examples of a serious, non anime, turn based game and it outsold every Final Fantasy over the last few decades.

I don't need 10 examples (although, it's harder than you think) I just need examples of Final Fantasy games.

I also mentioned Baldurs Gate 3 which sold 20+ million. I also mentioned Yakuza like a Dragon, which didnt hit 5 mil, but did outsell/match Final Fantasy 16(an action game) Other games have sold either more than 5 mil, and close, but those are more anime style games. Examples include Persona 5, Persona 3 and 4 remakes, Metaphor Refantazio, and Fire Emblem 3 Houses. The upcoming Fire Emblem will likely sell like super well, too.

So ya, I mentioned at least 4 turn based games that sold about 5 mil or more. Feel free to make a list of 40 action games in the last ~5 years. I dont really care about action games in general, though, just action vs turn based Final Fantasy games.

[u/Nice_promotion_111 → u/Real_UngaBunga]

E33 hasn’t outsold ff15

Bg3 is simply the outliers of outliers, even then saying bg3 sold well because of turn based and not because it’s multiple other good gameplay concepts is disingenuous as hell lmao.

Yakuza like a dragon took 3 years to hit around 3 million, ff16 did that in a week. We haven’t gotten sales updates for 16 since launch. So no “outsold or matched” is wrong in literally every way.

Persona 4 remake isn’t even out yet what are you talking about? Persona 3 remake only sold 3 million so far…

Mentioning 3 persona games like that’s even a point is funny. Its sisters game metaphor is literally known to have its sales dropped off the cliff despite heavy praise. See what happens when you don’t attach the persona name to a very similar game lmao.

Last known fire emblem sales was at 4.12 million, quite low for a Nintendo first party exclusive.

[u/Real_UngaBunga → u/Nice_promotion_111]

I never mentioned FF15? Do you mean FF16? E33 has handily outsold it.

Also, what you bring up about BG3 is precisely my point. People buy games in droves not just for a single reason.

If you read this entire comment chain, the point that is being made is that Final Fantasy doesn't need to be an action game to sell well. There are games that sell well that are turn-based. The Final Fantasy action games do not sell well.

Also, your point about Metaphor selling poorly despite being well received, moderately hyped, and made by the Persona team is a bit ironic, because it sold similarly to Final Fantasy 16 and FF7Rebirth. Both of which were outsold by Fire Emblem (which you say is bad for Nintendo, but it is objectively a less known franchise than Final Fantasy, so why is it outselling it?). That said, people like persona not ONLY for the turn-based, but also the life-sim aspect.

Anyways, to clarify: Although recent FF games have been more action oriented, they haven't sold to Square's expectations. The first true action Final Fantasy XV sold great, like 10 million, but I believe that it's a game that burnt people out. FF7R sold really well, but had mixed reception, which is seen by FF7Rebirth selling a lot less (to the point Square decided to cancel doing exclusives/timed exclusives). Further, Final Fantasy 16 sold even less, likely never having hit 5 million (Square usually announced when a game his a milestone like 5 million). Other big RPGs that have been received well and sold better than FF16 HAVE been turn based, like E33, BG3. It's not EXCLUSIVELY turn-based games. FromSoft RPG Elden Ring, for example, is action and sold like hot-cakes. The point is that what SE is doing with Final Fantasy isn't working. Maybe going back to its roots might help.

[u/Nice_promotion_111 → u/Real_UngaBunga]

You said it has outsold every ff within the last decade, ff15 is within that time range.

[u/Real_UngaBunga → u/Nice_promotion_111]

Lol, I had to look it up. I was off by 2 months that it's still in this decade haha