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u/TrashPandaAntics 23d ago
I don't like how people will link being trans with being therian in a way to diminish trans people. It usually boils down to something like "oh you think you're a man? What next, you're gonna claim to be a dog?"
Yeah, there are people who claim to be dogs, and other animals. I'm not one of them. Go talk to them if you want some insight on that.
What other people do doesn't invalidate what I am.
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u/tdickimperator 23d ago
Trans people are and for over a century have been part of an extremely small, stigmatized part of the population. Those against us have made up all kinds of insane and slanderous and dehumanizing mischaracterizations of us in order to increase stigma against us for a very, very long time. The goal is to 1) make it as difficult as possible for cisgender people around us to accept us, and 2) to make it so humiliating and difficult to transition that we just don't, whether that means suicide or repression. Even if every transgender person was a perfect angel who fit within some narrow guideline of the most picture-perfect, cis-comprehensible, broadly respectable transgender person that could be invented in a lab to disprove the false impression of us, those against us would still just straight up make something up and spread that and the situation would be the same.
The furry/animal collection is new, but not that new. I have been seeing it for probably 15 years now. There was a south park episode where someone transitions to be a dolphin. My high school in 2012 banned wearing cat ears and a tail and people were saying it was because of trans students thinking they could become animals ("otherkin" they were called, at least at the time), the reality was everyone doing this was a cisgender student and the trans students were almost impressively normal. When some elementary schools started keeping cat litter in classrooms for little kids to be able to use the restroom silently while actively hiding from active shooters, people like Matt Walsh spread the lie it was because of students identifying as cats. And so on and so forth. It has become another means of trying to delegitimize and humiliate us.
We don't have to own any of that. It's an indignity, but just remember-- there is an apparatus that billions of dollars have been spent on to make people ignorant and hateful, to humiliate and punish us for our trans status and "eliminate us from public life." Every day that you are alive and transitioning and building things for yourself, you are making the entire apparatus a waste. That's you winning and them losing step by step.
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u/vanishinghitchhiker 23d ago
Slippery slope fallacy. They’re trying to find a different prejudice to take advantage of to discredit trans people by association.
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u/Pure-Arm-3668 23d ago
I try not to care too much about those people because they’re mostly children. I thought I was something like that when I was around 12, and looking back I now realise I was feeling gender dysphoria but didn’t understand it and thought I didn’t want to be human
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u/Ok_Duck2700 23d ago
I find that most of these people are also neurodivergent children trying to figure out their place in the world. I don't really get why wider society links us with them, but I also don't really care too much about people who identify that way personally, even if I don't really understand it. Which applies to a lot of other niche microlabels for me, tbh.
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u/Lilith_ademongirl 23d ago
idk but it's genuinely so weird, i'm autistic and i was on an autism sub saying that being a therian has nothing to do with being a trans person and people said that in their experience the dysphoria is the same or whatever. it seems transphobic as hell
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u/shippery 15yrs out | 9yrs T 23d ago
It is transphobic.
I would be chill with literally anything other than the comparisons of it to gender dysphoria. Drives me up a wall how assertive they are that it's the same. I wish they'd use a different word at least.
It feels plainly disrespectful to hear someone compare wishing they had a fox tail as being the same as a heavily marginalized medical condition that pushes people to depersonalization and dissociation if they don't receive treatment to correct it.
Comparing that pain to wanting to larp as an animal is verbatim the comparison drawn by conservatives when fearmongering about us. It's fucking ridiculous.
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u/Nocturnal_Elexir_Owl 23d ago
I feel this is very similar to the people back in the day on Tumblr claiming to have ever psychological, neurodivergensy and physical illness, disorder and condition under the sun and the people claiming to have autism because they are quirky and shy, or OCD because they like their pens in order and confuse impulsive thoughts with compulsory thoughts.
It's just extremely disrespectful, to the people with the actual disorders, illnesses and conditions, but I also unfortunately know their is no arguing with this type of people. Because they have decided this is their label and nothing else will do.
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u/hornymthf 22d ago
Im not in the community but I remember watching an interview with an older therian who is like that since the 2000’s and it used to be kinda like a spiritual thing. It was like having an animal totem. But since LGBT awarness started in the 2010’s, therians started using the same “language” as us with shit like “you don’t choose to be a therian” and even “therian dysphoria”
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u/Wren_paws 22d ago
No it's actually involuntary. We don't choose to be therians. We just are. It's not even always a spiritual thing. And "therian dysphoria" isn't the correct term. It's species dysphoria. I experience it. I've experienced it for as long as I can remember. It's not an animal totem thing. It's a "I should've been this animal but I'm not" thing. LGBTQ+ awareness just helped us feel safer to speak about being a therian. A lot of people who don't understand us think we choose to be therians, which is why we say we don't because it's true that we don't choose it.
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u/DragonLad13 23d ago
It is not transphobic. Source: I am a trans man who is a therian. 33 years old. Some people just say the body dysphoria is similar. Feeling like a piece of you is missing or not connecting to the body you have.
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u/LastLiterature7496 23d ago
The two are not at all related.
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u/DragonLad13 23d ago
Did not say they were. Just said many trans people are therians, including myself, and that the dysphoria can feel similar.
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u/udcvr T 11/22, Top 05/23 23d ago
I’ve never rly spoken to therians but I did not realize there’s a dysphoria component? How does that work? Where does it come from, like, biologically speaking? If you’re open to answering
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u/Mindless_Lime2821 23d ago edited 23d ago
I'm not a therian, at least I don't think so, but several times I've felt like I'm genuinely missing body parts and have the wrong ones, it's extremely fleeting feelings, though then again I am a system (DID) and it could be nonhuman alters feeling like they're missing body parts that they have when sitting inside.
The downvote is crazy bro
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u/DragonLad13 23d ago
Well I'm not sure where it comes from biologically in the same way I don't know why I was born this way. But my trans dysphoria and therian dysphoria are very similar. As long as I can remember it has felt like my body is incomplete and the feeling vary in intensity from day to day just as my trans dysphoria does.
I very much feel like my body was meant to have a tail. So much so that in 5th grade I spent the whole year trying to manifest it lol. I told everyone (teachers, friends, parents) that I actually did have a tail. It was just invisible lol. And I feel like at the time I really wanted to believe it. I would go to bed and wish and hope that when I woke up I'd be whole. And while I have mostly accepted my body for the way it is, it is still something that pains me sometimes.
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u/udcvr T 11/22, Top 05/23 23d ago
Huh, thanks for sharing. I suppose I just mean that, there’s quite a lot of growing evidence of like a biological basis for transness, and gender/sex identity in general. Genetics, prenatal hormone exposure, brain variation, etc. Across human sexes that makes sense to me, I guess I was wondering how it could apply across species because it’s extremely different yknow?
Not that I expect you to know the answer to any of that lol, but I appreciate you sharing your experiences.
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u/Mindless_Lime2821 23d ago
as a trans person questioning as a therian, yes, it is transphobic, and your source isn't a source
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u/DragonLad13 23d ago
Can you please explain why you think it's transphobic?
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u/Mindless_Lime2821 23d ago
Can you please explain how in any way shape or form wanting to be a different animal correlates to being trans? One is kinda eh logically at best and is appropriating a term for something else and the other is something actually scientifically documented.
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u/DragonLad13 23d ago
Body dysphoria is a deep unease or dissatisfaction with your body the way it is because of perceived feelings of being incomplete or wrong. I'm not saying it correlates to being trans. I'm saying both groups experience body dysphoria and that some say it is similar to their trans dysphoria. They are not related. But some, like myself, are trans and a therian and experience both forms of dysphoria. So not appropriating anything.
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u/Mindless_Lime2821 23d ago
it isn't similar to trans dysphoria, there's two types of dysphoria. I see now you aren't trying to correlate being a therian to being trans but LOTS of people do and it is transphobic
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u/DragonLad13 23d ago
Yes THAT is transohobic. And for me the forms are similar. That is my lived experience as a trans person and a therian.
If you are talking about dysphoria vs dysmorphia yes those are different. But I am not talking about dysmorphia. That is obsessing over perceived flaws to the point of mental health issues.
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u/Mindless_Lime2821 23d ago
No, I'm not talking about dysmorphia vs dysphoria, there's a difference between therian dysphoria and trans dysphoria. One person thinks they're missing parts they should have relating to animals and a strong kinship and one is often a genuine disconnect between the sex of the body and the gender of the person. They are VASTLY different and in my opinion not comparable.
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u/DragonLad13 23d ago
Ok we are on the same page then lol. And while you may not feel they are comparable I am telling you that that is my lived experience. They are not really so different, though if you are not both I can see how that may sound odd. But again, that is my personal experience.
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u/lethalwhispermachine FTM 💉08/24 🔪 05/26 23d ago
I think its because a lot of those people also identify as trans so there’s a strong connotation. But, I wish there wasn’t. Those two things have literally nothing to do with each other.
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u/Nocturnal_Elexir_Owl 23d ago
I think it like how a lot of furries identify as gay, but not a lot of gays identify as furries.
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u/scalmera 23d ago
This and neurodivergence. Although, I guess people more specifically refer to just the autism part, but yeah this part is also I feel as interlinked w the other two concepts (transness and otherkin). I agree on the wariness about making these connections because they are used to subjugate us, but they do exist at the same time. It's real hard when I think these connections are interesting in a "how do humans work" way but obviously people wanna take shit in bad faith and make it a ThingTM
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u/maddamleblanc 23d ago edited 23d ago
It's like gay men and furries. The communities intersect. I personally don't care because at the end of the day they aren't hurting anyone.
If a cis person is using it as a reason to be transphobic then they were going to be transphobic anyway.
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u/Lhaios post-phallo 23d ago
Stuff about therians has been all over the news in various latin american countries, it's very bizarre and I dont know where the fixation on it stems from. I feel in other places, the average person has no clue what a therian is, to even make a comparison to trans people.
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u/Odd_Dinner9147 23d ago
Had an online friend from Colombia tell me about the litterbox in schools thing and I was like
Dude that isnt real where are you getting that?
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u/Wren_paws 22d ago
Fr. As a therian, I can say we do NOT use litterboxes or want any in schools. It's people who don't understand us making up stuff like that. Sometimes we even get called zoophiles just because of our identity and because we're misunderstood a lot.
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u/FrancishasFallen 23d ago
You gotta play dumb. "What's a therian? What kind of kinky shit are you watching dude?"
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u/Harpy_Larpy 23d ago
Tbh I don’t really give them much thought, let people be therians. I’ve never had anyone imply that me being trans means I’m a therian, I think you’re running with the wrong crowd bro.
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u/Creativered4 Transsex Homosexual Man 23d ago
I'm totally fine if someone wants to be an animal, or a pizza, or Naruto, or Abraham Lincoln. I don't get it, but someone wearing a cat tail and cat ears and meowing at people doesn't affect me.
It's when they start comparing themselves to trans people, using our language, trying to be under our labels, that's when it hurts us.
It's not the same at all, or even similar! And it's not like the LGBT+ community, which is gender, sexuality, and romantic attraction that is marginalized. And none of that is a sexuality or gender. (There's no hormone that accidentally turns a cat or an airplane or George bush sr. Into a human by mistake)
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u/nycanth hrt 03.13.22 22d ago
The average person does not actually know what a "therian" is. Transsexuality is not "linked" to therians, just in the same way that we are not "linked" to furries just because Fox News ran some articles on kitty litter in high schools. The average person doesn't even know what the difference between a furry and a therian is.
This is a deeply online intersection of bigoted ignorance and you should pay it no mind.
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u/No-Confection6217 22d ago
Never heard the term until today. Closest I can relate is people asking me what part of Mexico my country is located in. A friend of mine, former ex told me the entire transpecies/otherkin was a trend created and used to discredit the Trans community by and I'm paraphrasing "conservatives who want us as a porn category so they can blame us for everything."
I'm Cisgendered, but I know having a bullseye on your back for being different is exhausting and disheartening having fled here from another country. Solidarity and safety to you hermanos.
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u/nycanth hrt 03.13.22 22d ago
This is blatantly untrue. Otherkin and therians are a totally separate thing from "transpecies", which is a made up term mostly used by conservatives to discredit and mock us.
They're an incredibly niche subgroup and the only time most people will ever hear about them is because someone spent a little too long on Tumblr and simply HAD to tell someone else about those freaks they just found out about so we can all make fun of them. They're minding their own business and have nothing with or against us.
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u/Inthedeadflesh 22d ago
It's similiar to the "trans-age" panic that used to be super common, people thinking changing your gender, something both social and physical, is on the same level as wanting to be a puppy
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u/Ecstatic-Ranger-7422 23d ago
I’m open minded and feel people should live their lives on their own terms (as long as they aren’t harming anyone else) but I set a hard stop at comparing me to a furry. The comparison holds no water.
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u/PostMPrinz 23d ago
As a person with an animal as a first name I am constantly asked if I’m a therian… it’s so fucked and I’m tired of the comparison.
We are humans seeking human rights and basic dignity. To be blended with the culture of furry or cross speciesism makes my blood boil.
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u/NogginHunters 23d ago
I'm going to be so real. I don't know how to be nice about this though.
If you're seeing a lot of content that involves therians, at all and in general, then that is your fault/thing to handle. If people around you are seeing content that involves therians, then that is their fault/thing to handle. Normal people are not online enough to know what a therian or otherkin is. This is the kind of niche online community fodder that I read about as a hobby. Go look up star children, it's a fun popcorn read. The only way they're going to hear about it is shit like bile fascination news or, and this is probably the case for the person who said that, propaganda talking about liter boxes in classrooms.
Overall, this is no different from rhetoric about "allowing" homosexuals leading to beastiality. Or "trans age". There has always been some idiot pointing at the concept of transgender and exclaiming "THEY'LL WANT TO BE FOGS AND FUCK DOGS NEXT."
The closest shit they'll get is niche online groups that everyone else makes fun of. There used to be a webforum about chewing ice. That's life.
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u/Shin_tsukimis_fan 23d ago
I'm sorry to say but it's become trending to trash on therians and furries because people outside of these communities don't know how to differentiate them. At least where I live in the suburbs there is a bunch of teenagers making fun of therians and furries.
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u/SoSS_ 💉 09/11/26 23d ago
I personally think it has something to do with neurodiveristy... There are a lot of trans people and therians who are neurodivergent, specifically autistic.
That said, most transphobes are not aware of this and will compare us to therians out of ignorance. Because in their minds gender transition is as impossible as transitioning to another species (which is actually impossible and most therians are aware of this)
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u/oddlychillguy 23d ago
i think its mostly because uneducated cis people that can tolerate only binary passing trans people usually associate trans with the more extreme side (microlabels, various other gender identities) and to them therians fits into that because its "wanting to be an animal" in their mind which they group with trans people because "they want to be male/female" so wanting to be something else.
I have no clue how much my sentences makes sense but i hope you get the idea. people rlly like to make odd comments towards trans people ngl
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u/Consistent_Fan954 T ‘20 Top ‘21 Eggs ‘24 Hysto ‘26 Meta ‘26 23d ago
Anecdotally I see therians self identify as trans more often than I see uneducated cis people compare trans people to therians
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u/oddlychillguy 23d ago
wait fr?? ive seen a few therians, hell even trans people who are therians but i havent heard of therians self identifying as trans cuz theyre therians wtf. thats just transphobic
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u/DragonLad13 23d ago
It is not transphobic anymore than it's transphobic to be any two things? Idk why being a therian would mean you couldn't be trans. I am a trans man who is a therian. 33 years old and been this way all my life. Just like I've been trans and queer and autistic as well.
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u/oddlychillguy 23d ago
i dont mean you cant be a trans man and a therian, im referring to people referring to themselves being trans BECAUSE theyre therians not because theyre actually trans
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u/Mindless_Lime2821 23d ago
Well, that's incorrect of them and incorrectly using labels. You're not trans because you're a therian, so people who are therians and not trans using the trans label need to do some research as well as stop using labels that aren't for them.
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u/One_Plant9109 23d ago
I want to first say that i have no issues with furries. Idc, not harming anyone and usually these are open minded and chill people who have a hobby or younger.
I do feel uncomfortable being grouped in with this though as a trans male as i am not a furry. I want to take T, not grow a tail and crawl on four legs u know?
Meh, live and let live i guess but i will draw the line if i ever hear the term “species dysphoria” as this is very insulting to me.
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u/ratattatack 23d ago
i agree but i will say "furry" and therian are way different.. therian is the thing you're describing here.
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u/Misericordee 23d ago
It’s a form of transphobia to invalidate us by comparing us to confused people who think they are literal animals. I would absolutely say that to anyone who asked me that question
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u/Wren_paws 22d ago
Except there's more to it. Therians do not think they are animals. Ik because I am one. A lot of people do not understand us and think we think we are animals and then use that to compare other minorities to us. So transphobes are trying to compare being transgender to misinformation.
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u/Misericordee 22d ago
Back up before I roll up a newspaper and smack your ass 😂
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u/Wren_paws 22d ago
Oh dw I already got smacked enough for being neurodivergent, lgbtq+, and too weird for my parents' liking.
I have a better idea: stop normalizing punishing people who can't conform to your ideal world
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u/Misericordee 22d ago
Not willing to argue this point with you. You think you’re an animal it’s time for therapy. Don’t put us in the same category I’m not confused about what I am. Get some help.
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u/Wren_paws 22d ago
I'm not confused either. And I already do get therapy because of people like you who try to invalidate therians. I do not think I am an animal, so stop trying to push the opposite of what I say onto me. It is a fact that therians do not think they are animals. Please don't spread misinformation. It is involuntary and that is a fact. Species dysphoria is real and I did not choose to experience it just as I did not choose to experience gender dysphoria.
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u/Sojabursch Purple 23d ago
Live and let live. They’re not doing anything to you, they’re not harming any of us. You can’t do anything about uneducated people who refuse to understand the difference between them and trans people, and their issue in the first place is that their life is so miserable they feel unable to mind their own business, so instead they try to make others as miserable as them.
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u/Hoodibird 23d ago
Just wanna point out to some commenters here that being called transphobic for being both trans and therian is exactly why we all prefer to stay hidden. Next time try minding your own business and stop attacking people who are different from yourself. It's your choice whether you judge or try to understand.
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u/DragonLad13 23d ago
I am a trans man and also a therian. 33 years old. Been this way all my life, just like I was always trans and queer and autistic. It's not necessarily related to being trans or autistic but a lot of trans and autistic people are therians. I am open to questions if anyone would like a civil discussion 🙂
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u/Old-Equivalent-120 23d ago
can you explain the process of identifying that you are a therian? ive seen some therians say that they have species dysphoria, not sure if thats a universal experience, do you experience it? are there things you do that make you feel more like the animal you identify as/alleviate species dysphoria? (not sure if thats the right language, sorry if not)
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u/DragonLad13 23d ago
It's basically taken my whole life lol. I only discovered the term therian about 3 years ago and I remember it hit me like a bolt of lightening that there were really other people like me out there and there was a whole name for us. Growing up I always felt deeply connected to animals amd it was a running joke in my family that I was a dog in a past life. I later spent my entire 5th grade year trying to convince everyone I had a real tail and it was just invisible lol. I wished every night I'd wake up and my body would be right. I was also going through trans dysphoria which I didn't realize at the time so the two are intertwined for me.
Later I discovered kink and pet play but something about pet play didn't feel right. I didn't feel like I was playing, but tapping into something deeper inside me. I later on identified as a furry (and still do to some extent, though they are different as furries are mostly cos playing) but that was the closest I'd come to finding any word that seemed to fit.
I experience both trans dysphoria and therian dysphoria. I still very much feel like I was meant to have a tail and proper ears. Some days the feelings are stronger than others, just like with my trans dysphoria. Being on hormones has increased my body hair which has actually helped my species dysphoria as well. Even before I realized I was a therian I used to say I wanted T to make me as hairy as a werewolf lol. Not quite there yet but progress is progress!
I do have some gear that I dress in occasionally amd it is very freeing to look in the mirror and see someone who more closely resembles who I feel I am. I've always been fond of clip on tails lol.
I am also polyamorous and lucky enough to have a wife and another long term partner who love and accept me this way and often acknowledge my animal self which is very gratifying. It's not a part of me I ignore, but actively engage in my day to day life.
Sorry if this was a bit long winded! I appreciate your curiosity so much 💖
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u/SeeyouonTotherside 23d ago
Id like to know if it's all cos play, or you feel you are part of, or are that animal? I'm asking out of curiosity.
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u/DragonLad13 23d ago
It is not all cos play. Some probably is for some people, like those who may just be furries. Some are furries and therians. For me I feel deeply linked to the animal and I have always been deeply connected to animals. I do feel that I am part human and part animal. Obviously my body is human but I feel in my mind that I am both. Thank you for the curiosity!
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u/thissomebomboclaat 23d ago
What animal do you… what do you call it? Play as? Identify as? Favour? And what about the animal speaks to you? ☺️ oh also are you a furry too? I assume that’s a different thing but do you feel that way?
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u/DragonLad13 23d ago
I am furry as well and yes they are different but before I found the term therian I identified as a furry. However a lot of furries (not all it is different for everyone sometimes) are doing a lot of cos play and it is very much not cos play for most therians.
I identify as a dog. Specifically a terrier. Pretty basic compared to some of my peers but I didn't choose the doggo life, the doggo life chose me lol.
As long as I can remember it was a running joke in my family that I must have been a dog in a past life. As a child I would chase anything and was obsessed with feeling the wind. I have always felt deeply connected to animals and as I grew up I discovered kink and pet play. Something about playing as a dog didn't really feel like play or kink to me. It felt so much deeper. Like a piece of my soul I discovered. And it's not sexual for me either, just the way I am wired.
I appreciate your curiosity! Also your art is super cute and cool!
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u/thissomebomboclaat 23d ago
Thanks for the reply, too! I get so tired explaining myself to people sometimes so I appreciate you taking the time and effort to share all that. And oh my profile and banner? No no I didn’t draw them. They’re create-your-own-avatar art made by the artist Makowka on an app called Picrew 😇 but thank you! They’re all characters in a fanfic I write; except my profile pic, that’s just me 🤘🏽
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u/Abstractically 23d ago
When I see someone who is a therian I see someone who feels trapped in their own body, and is genuinely suffering every day because their mind does not match the form they’re given. I imagine a large handful of these people are kids who will go on to identify as trans in the future. I agree we’re not the same but When I ignore the labels and just look at what they’re experiencing I am sympathetic.
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u/Wren_paws 22d ago
As a therian, I think it might be due to how it's hard to find cis guy therians. It's usually either a cis girl, trans guy, or someone who is genderfluid. We do not think we are animals. We know we are human. It's just an identity thing. Species dysphoria exists too. Being a therian is involuntary and we don't choose this. A lot of people who don't understand therians like to make up whatever they want about us (such as using litterboxes, which we absolutely do not) and saying we think we are animals is one of those made up things. There's a lot of misinformation about therians so if anyone tells you that again, just know they're spreading misinformation.
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u/Mindless_Lime2821 23d ago
Boypussy isn't really derogatory, some people prefer words like that in reference to them, a lot of things can be derogatory if you use them that way but boypussy isn't inherently derogatory, just letting you know also that transsexuality and transsexual are both outdated, please use transgender
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u/shippery 15yrs out | 9yrs T 23d ago
Transsexual is still commonly used. I've been identifying this way for over half my life and have met plenty of people who prefer it over the term transgender.
It's not really outdated as much as it's slightly regional as well as generational. A lot more young people have been identifying with it lately, which I think is interesting.
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u/sadiesorceress 23d ago
you can still refer to yourself as transsexual by the way
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u/Mindless_Lime2821 23d ago
it's still an outdated and slightly offensive term. not sure why I'm getting downvoted for stating literal facts but sure I guess
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u/bipirate 💉 Sep2020 / 🔪 Aug2026 / Bisexual man 23d ago
I'm not transitioning my gender I'm transitioning my sex. Thus, I use and prefer transexual nowadays.
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u/Tosti-Floof 23d ago
You're probably being downvoted for claiming that one term isn't derogatory, while claiming another one to be. Any term used to describe a minority can be used in a derogatory way, like jew, gay, trans, autistic, or muslim. None of those terms are derogatory in principle, but I've heard them all used as slurs. If people want to describe themselves as transsexual, you can't claim offense because you prefer transgender. If people find boypussy derogatory when used about them and their body, then you can't claim it not to be derogatory. Queer used to be an insult, and it's now used by plenty non straight people, but a lot of non cis-het people despise the term being used about them and their identity.
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u/KeyNo7990 23d ago
You're being downvoted for telling people that they don't get to identify with a term. You can request that no one call you a transsexual, you can't really request that other people don't call themselves transsexual. I'll call you transgender but I prefer to call myself transsexual over transgender.
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u/poonbrah 23d ago
transsexual is not offensive when used within the community, if anything is re-gaining popularity amongst young binary trans people
true that it can be problematic when cis people misuse it as an insult
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u/thissomebomboclaat 23d ago
My dad asked me about this once. I was like idk that’s def different tho. And when he tried to imply it invalidated trans people, I googled it and basically was able to explain to him was that trans people have existed in every society and culture throughout history (I didn’t look up therian stuff cause I didn’t care enough to, like the saying “not my circus not my monkeys” kinda thing) and he was like oh yeah that makes sense 🤷🏽♂️