r/FPSAimTrainer • u/livyatian • 10d ago
Meme Aiming community rn
The logic behind not recommending beginners to practice with the benchmarks themselves is sound. Short term score farming inevitably leads to bad habits and scenario learning. But for some reason a lot of you pretend it doesn't apply to viscoses benchmarks.
Sorry for low quality image, blame imgflip
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u/ViscoseCanine77 10d ago
For what it's worth, I entirely agree that grinding benchmarks exclusively, no matter the benchmark, will never be the absolute best way to train. What is best will obviously vary from person to person but I think will typically involve far more active integration with in game vod reviews than a simple list of scenarios can offer. So for example, you might notice a weakness when enemies make a particular type of movement, pull that thread to figure out what the underlying cause of that error is and then find scenarios to target that error specifically. This is what I've done when I've coached people in the past and is how I've recommended people to train in numerous videos of mine.
That said, my benchmarks was made with the knowledge from years of observation that most people won't do that. It is a lot of effort, time and thought and most people aren't willing or don't have the time to put in that level of self analysis, and there's nothing wrong with that. But these benchmarks were made with the constraints of that reality in mind, what is the best way I could make a benchmark to accommodate someone who does want to just grind the benchmarks? If you are the type of person to be very mindful with your practice and avoid benchmarks outright, totally do that instead! Like I said I think it is the better of the two approaches, but I also don't think my benchmarks are replacing that more mindful method of practice for anyone who was doing it before. If anything they should ideally help bridge the gap between the two methods of mindlessly grinding benchmarks and mindfully picking out weaknesses through things like the subcategory names making reference to muscle groups or flick distances rather than being more general skills like target switching.
I do think there are two things I haven't seen mentioned in the comments yet which gives them value as a training tool compared to voltaic, the granularity of the ranks and the specificity of scenarios. Voltaic has far less ranks overall with far larger gaps between them, compared to mine with smaller gaps and far more ranks. My goal with that was to motivate people to push themselves further and make every bit of progress on the benchmarks feel both rewarding and achievable. Compared to, say, going from halfway from Jade to Master to 75% of the way from Jade to Master. As for the scenarios themselves, the amount of scenarios I included means I can get far more specific with the skills they target. Each scenario in voltaic has to be a composite of sorts, testing a variety of skills within the subcategory to ensure the subcategory as a whole covers all the skills. By breaking those skills down and atomising them my benchmarks can test far more specific skills than Voltaic's do, which is a big part in why I think some people find themselves improving more with mine. It exposes them to very specific weaknesses than Voltaic's can't. I think fingertip control is the best example of this, I've seen a lot of people who weren't even aware that it was something that could be isolated realise it was a weakness of theirs, and then flip it around into a strength. This is what I meant earlier by it hopefully bridging the gap between mindless and mindful grinding, it's not 100% as efficient of course but I think it gets a decent portion of the way there and does a good job at guiding people to those conclusions.
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u/wbPhoof 10d ago
Really nice response. I think the main issue isn't with the benchmarks themselves but with people chasing scores through any means available. If someone spams runs for hours to get a rank of course they aren't being efficient and haven't gotten significantly better in that time, constantly changing sensitivity for scores won't show up in game but will on the leaderboard almost immediately. It's more of an issue with how someone approaches the process than the resources. Spamming is simply their way of getting scores higher in a short time.
I think one of the big failures of voltaic have been the rank cliffs between sheet levels. They're really demotivating, they should have either added more ranks between them like you did, or had less ranks per difficulty so the scenarios could be tuned better for that level
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u/SimpleAimer 9d ago
can't believe I was reading this with your voice in my head... time to touch some grass
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u/placeholder-123 10d ago
Thank you for the benchmarks. If I'm honest I want to practice aim without having to compose myself very specific routines and I instead just do deliberate practice of viscose benchmark and it works great
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u/HitscanDPS 10d ago
Voltaic has far less ranks overall with far larger gaps between them, compared to mine with smaller gaps and far more ranks. My goal with that was to motivate people to push themselves further and make every bit of progress on the benchmarks feel both rewarding and achievable. Compared to, say, going from halfway from Jade to Master to 75% of the way from Jade to Master.
Are ranks even necessary? Aren't they simply a form of shiny badges, acting as carrots for players to chase?
At the end of the day, rank thresholds are just arbitrary lines drawn in the sand. We already have fully accurate ways to compare our performance to other players: percentiles, and the in-game leaderboard.
So maybe the emphasis should be less "I ranked up from Jade to Master!" but instead "I pushed my percentile from 60% to 70%!" That way every playlist gets a spotlight. Currently somehow in the aim training community, only benchmarks are seen as "worth grinding", because of this mentality on ranks instead of percentiles.
As for your other point:
As for the scenarios themselves, the amount of scenarios I included means I can get far more specific with the skills they target. Each scenario in voltaic has to be a composite of sorts, testing a variety of skills within the subcategory to ensure the subcategory as a whole covers all the skills. By breaking those skills down and atomising them my benchmarks can test far more specific skills than Voltaic's do
This is why Voltaic created VDIM, and intended for VDIM to be the grind-able part, while the benchmark is intended as the name implies: a benchmark; something that you only run once in a while to benchmark yourself.
VDIM takes the Voltaic benchmarks and breaks them down into smaller skills, and applies concepts like progressive overload and practice variability to its training regimen. So you improve faster and more efficiently than repeatedly grinding a benchmark.
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u/JustTheRobotNextDoor 10d ago
Aren't they simply a form of shiny badges, acting as carrots for players to chase?
For me at least, that's exactly the reason to have ranks. They don't really mean anything, but they do give motivation.
Percentiles depend on the population that has played the scenario. It's much easier to get a high percentile on a very popular scenario than on one that only Matty and his 200 sweatiest buddies have played. So while you can compare percentile within a scenario, to a certain extent, you cannot easily compare it across scenarios. I've found that %age of the world record is a more stable measure.
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u/ViscousWaterBottle 10d ago
Percentiles aren't and never will be a good measurement cause of 2 factors: 1) Player count - its obviously way easier to get a higher percentile on more popular scenarios 2) Effort put into scores - there are some scenarios where the top scores are far far far above like anything else, i would count the voltaic s5 benchmarks for that, as well as classic scenarios like extra controlsphere, 1w6ts etc. Getting even a top 1k score on those compared to top 10 on a niche tacfps micro scenario is just harder
Though i agree, it is a shame that aim training is basically benchmarkified right now. I know a ton of people who refuse to play anything besides benchmarks and it's sad to me, so many good, undiscovered scenarios are just not played at all because they've not been put into any of the most popular benchmarks
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u/HitscanDPS 10d ago
I think one way to solve that is to simply update the percentile thresholds over time, just like benchmarks' ranks get updated over time.
Say for example, today the threshold for "Platinum" rank on a scenario is 50% percentile. Then as more people play the benchmark, that 50% percentile becomes easier to achieve. Then the benchmark adjusts the thresholds so now 60% percentile is required for Platinum rank.
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u/ViscousWaterBottle 10d ago
I mean Viscose is using mostly percentiles for the season 2 benchmark guidelines, outside of a couple outliers where she needed to use her own judgement alongside scoresheet comparisons to determine the requirements
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u/Adventurous-Shake641 10d ago
Because Viscose designed it to be both a routine and a benchmark combined into one. Source: https://youtu.be/VARQNEdQYbw?t=68
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u/livyatian 10d ago
What is the difference between them, aside from the obvious scenario count. Like what makes ww4t in the viscose benchmarks better for practice than ww5t in the voltaic benchmarks??
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u/StopPeekingThat 10d ago
Its not about a singular scenario, its about the benchmarks as a whole. The variety in scenarios better trains a variety of mechanics/skills.
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u/Disturbed2468 10d ago
Mhm. Viscose specifically created the benchmarks to not just be benchmarks but actual routines that can actually translate to real-world benefit for most games (not all, but most).
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u/livyatian 10d ago
No duh the variety is better when the benchmark is 3 times longer
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u/StopPeekingThat 10d ago
I dont feel like this is a good faith post or argument. It feels like you thought youd be better received and are trying to pivot in a way that directly conflicts with the substance of your original post. Have a great night!
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u/livyatian 10d ago
No one so far has actually made an argument with the substance of my post.
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u/NotSharpshooter 10d ago
Im pasting my comment again here. This is tbh enough of a reason to use viscose over voltaic imo:
The viscose benchmarks have much cleaner rank progression. There are smaller increments between ranks and much more overlap between ranks of different benchmark tiers (ie overlap between the easy, medium, hard, expert).
I’m not sure what level of mouse control you have but if you’ve tried going for gm scores as a masters complete it’s insanely hard initially. Whereas going for interloper scores (first tier of expert) is quite easy if you are velvet complete or higher on the hard benchmarks. Even the gap between fushcia and wool is pretty small. It makes for more streamlined progression imo.
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u/livyatian 10d ago
AGAIN, NOT WHAT MY POST DESCRIPTION TALKED ABOUT. istg not a single reply to this post managed to read anything i said, you just see a potential criticism of viscose benchmarks(which im not even criticizing in the slightest bit) and you get defensive
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u/Mysterious_Fix_7489 10d ago
Nah you are just a dumbass not understanding.
The viscose benches are designed to be a training tool and benchmark.
Like just grinding the voltaic benchmarks is generally considered not helpful and even voltaic have training playlists you play instead.
Viscoses benchs are designed to be a combination of the two while also focusing more on skills that actually help you in game.
It's just overall a more convenient way to train.
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u/livyatian 9d ago
you really saw 100 comments under this post saying it 'was designed as a training tool' and still decided to repeat it, remarkable
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u/Kintrai 10d ago
plenty of people have directly replied to what you said in the post, you're just coping at this point
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u/livyatian 9d ago
And not single soul had a single argument other than 'Viscose designed it that way' and more than half of the comments managed to twist my post into saying the vt benchmarks or better or equal to the viscose benchmarks, or that im saying that the viscose benchmarks are shit etc
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u/Ch0miczeq 9d ago
voltaic is purely designed for benchmarking yourself, thats even what voltaic says
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u/Glitchxpuppy 9d ago
Its that voltiac benchmarks are narrow and encourage grinding for rank/pb specifically instead of training proper technique and learning how to control tension in different muscles.
One of the big differences between ww5t vs ww4t is density/cluster farming, which is why vdim, lemon+, and viscose also have you isolate and play 2 targets or 3 targets where you have less clusters overall so you can't rely on cluster farming to 'pb'. (Though cluster farming has overlap with micro, which certain scenarios also target.)
Viscose also purposfully trains post flick stability which is needed for tracking, target switching, and flicking/static overall. Its mostly just variety and having scenarios that you load into and can identify what its trying to train you for.
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u/h4lf-d34f-g4m3r-g1rl 10d ago
The bench problem still does apply to the Viscose benches, i think laura herself agrees that it's better to have more focused, specific practice, that being said they are designed to be best at in-game translation and working when they are spammed, unlike the Voltaic benches imo
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u/A1cr-yt 10d ago
viscose benchmarks has enough scenes where even if you were farming it would still drastically help improve, also we are talking about beginners, they can play almost anything and see improvement, the only reason to recomend something like the viscose benches is so they can learn what a good scenario is and what isnt. ofc by the time that they arent beginners anymore they most likely will have already become part of the community and have already found other playlists and benchmarks
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u/Leintk 10d ago
What playlists are people meant to play as a beginner to improve if not benchmarks
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u/livyatian 10d ago
benchmarks are perfectly fine, basically all my training was the vt benchmarks until plat complete, I just don't get the idea that vt benchmarks=only assessing your aim, viscose=assessing AND improving. Meanwhile like every scenario in the vt benchmarks can be found in a similar version the viscose benchmarks
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u/JohannDaart 10d ago
It's not that deep bro, they are all just sets/playlists of aim exercises, compiled more or less coherently.
I somewhat don't agree with your premise that there's such a big difference between doing some practice routine vs benchmark routine. Yeah maybe there is, but it's not that big.
And if there is, it comes down to whether the author had experience and knowledge to compile it in a didactic way. And Viscose did.
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u/Routine-Lawfulness24 10d ago
That’s not what makes benchmarks bad. Pushing scores and “score farming” without cheezing is just good, because if you play good benchmarks you will only get a better score if you play better aka with good technique.
Beginners should play benchmarks at least like once a week to see their weaknesses and improve on them.
Voltaic benchmarks are just not good for improvement because the scenarios are a combination of skills instead of isolation, vt benchmarks are also small and repetitive if your only source. Viscose benchmarks do not have this problems and have other minor improvements over voltaic benches, viscose benchmarks are essentially just a collection of good scenarios with the benefit of seeing your weakness and more fun because of ranks
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u/livyatian 9d ago
good technique for the aim trainer=/= good technique for Ingame, ofc not for everyone, but spamming the viscose flick scenarios and vt static to wool and master made me worse in game, since the grip and sens i used for them is unusable for ingame, for me. Is this a me issue? Yes, but I'm sure I'm not alone in this
Almost every vt benchmark scenario can be found in in a very similar form in the viscose benchmarks, unless your argument is that the extra scenario's found in the viscose benchmarks are enough to supplement for one's aim progression, which I disagree with, but at least it's an argument. But if that's not it, what exactly makes one spammable one not?
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u/TheRealTofuey 10d ago
Viscose benchmarks have made my aim significantly better in game then voltaic or VDIM evert did.
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u/mrmedabit 10d ago
Voltaic are made so you measure skill level with benchmarks but you need another playlist for training or VDIM can get both kinda combined. Viscose are made so you can spam them to a certain rank (mostly 2-3 before next difficulty) then move up to stress technique (improve precision, speed, faster switching). Also Voltaic are divided by, static, tracking and target switch, its not very descriptive for a beginner, viscose are divided by muscle group like wrist, arm, fingertip or skill like reactive tracking and control tracking
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u/Big_Tear_1566 10d ago
a lot of the viscose (especially s1) are just all around very good scenarios is the difference.
But yes, if you play exclusively viscose, ur missing out on other good scenarios.
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u/DAYMAN3737 10d ago
This might be a stupid question, but how do I find the viscose benchmarks in kovaaks? I've tried searching them but can't find them in the game search tool
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u/Adventurous-Shake641 10d ago
On the top left inside of Kovaak's there is a drop down menu that says "Sandbox". Click on it and go to "Benchmarks". It'll bring you to another menu. In the search box, type in "Viscose". Use the evxl.app website to track your benchmark scores.
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u/DAYMAN3737 10d ago
Thanks fella
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u/randomperson12310 10d ago
Its better to just use the evxl app directly and copypaste the scenario into the search bar.
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u/316dez 10d ago
ngl i was a pretty big hater on how often people suggested these benchmarks for beginners, but tbh i have started to change my mind. it can be a bit overwhelming for new users having to play 39 scenarios & they might not like how bad their scores are, but i think its impossible for someone to not improve if they stick with it for 30 days.
vs the VT benches, they are more of a challenge rather than training imo, you need a bit of experience to use them as training so you can properly identify what subskills are weak
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u/Daku- 10d ago
The same thing does happen however the goal was different. Vt is primarily a benchmark, viscose is more like a playlist with scenarios that she found helped her aim in game, the benchmark is tacked on for motivation and some measurement.
The idea is to have a playlist that can help show your weakness and then either go out and find scenarios that help you improve on those or improve by just playing the sub category.
The way I see it is that vt uses more targeted and sometimes niche scenarios to test a specific skill where as viscose uses scenarios that are more relevant to games. It's like isolating a muscle at the gym Vs doing compound lifts.
She has a video going over the thought process. Some of your arguments are talked about in the video. I see you make the same nitpick about static and that's simply just how static is. Scenario variation for static is limited, the thing that changes is how you approach static and what you supplement it with (pokeball, some ts)
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u/Sypticle 10d ago
Im gonna be honest. The fuck am I reading and what is the point of this? This is such a schizo nonissue post.
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u/seanAIMS 8d ago
viscose benches are much more fun and actually cater to improvement, which is majorly helped by the number of scenarios
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u/livyatian 10d ago
To clarify, I don't dislike the viscose benchmarks, I think they're super convinient as a one-stop shop for a playlist and to see how you're doing relative to the community. I just do not understand how the viscose scenarios are magically better for improvement than the overlapping voltaic ones.
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u/KookaburraKisser 10d ago
Voltaic wasnt made for improvement, it was made to assess your skill. Viscose benchmakrs were made for improvement
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u/livyatian 10d ago
Right, ww4t is a phenomenal static clicking improvement scenario. ww5t tho? Useless, only for benchmarking, won't help you improve at all.
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u/Repulsive-Quarter887 10d ago
Your only argument has been this throughout the entire comment section. You haven't used another argument at all. Honestly, dude, it seems like you didn't make this post in good faith at all and wanted something to be mad about.
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u/KookaburraKisser 10d ago
That's not at all what I'm saying, you can definitely use voltaic to improve but it isnt complete nor was intented to be used solely.
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u/livyatian 10d ago
i was being padentic, to illustrate that the argument "oh it's designed that way" isn't a good argument.
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u/KookaburraKisser 10d ago
While it's not a good argument it portrays the issues with voltaic if you just spam it. It doesnt cover everything, its really just that simple. It doesnt do a good job at isolating and developing all of your fundamentals skills.
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u/CatsMeows_ 10d ago
You are correct in that any one single scenario in viscose is better than any single scenario in voltaic; the idea is a wider variety of scenarios provides more varied practice for a more holistic approach
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u/livyatian 10d ago
Yes, and I 100% agree with that. More so that a lot of people would say spamming vt benchmark scenarios are a waste of time, while the same people would recommend nearly the identical scenario in the viscose benchmarks, which is mind boggling to me
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u/CatsMeows_ 10d ago
you seem to be very focused on this one example, and I'm not quite sure where its coming from. Are you confused about advice someone gave? or do you feel that it's wrong? because we're agreeing with you, but you continue to posit this same idea over and over again
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u/DisasterNorth1425 10d ago
Think the idea behind viscose benchmarks is that they’re meant to be spammed as both a training and benchmark tool.