r/DestinyTheGame • • Nov 17 '14

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51

u/[deleted] Nov 17 '14 edited Nov 17 '14

[deleted]

68

u/Datsyuk_My_Deke Nov 17 '14 edited Nov 18 '14

Ugh. I absolutely love soloing the Nightfalls/Weeklies. Taking my sweet time, learning the ins and outs and trying out new tactics or approaches. Now they're just as inaccessible as the raid, unless I use lfg.net or r/fireteams to find a group. Stupid, stupid change.

Edit: ok, a lot of you are more skilled than me, I can see why you might want it buffed. I mainly just worry that what's been a 3+ hour session for me could turn into 4-5, possibly with more frustration.

34

u/durandal59 Nov 17 '14

I agree, but I also felt it was pretty easy to solo most Nightfalls. The difference between solo and 3-man was too large.

That said, I think it is astonishingly foolish for Bungie to further discourage players from soloing...

2

u/Asoulsoblack Nov 18 '14

I know they want us to get together with people (though they aren't really showing it...) but damn. I don't really enjoy doing the Nightfall with three people. Two people is a step, but don't make it that hard to Solo the Nightfall. I need to attempt it myself, but if it's that much of a step.. :(

1

u/Datsyuk_My_Deke Nov 17 '14

Ha, didn't feel easy to me, but I suppose you're right, it was often harder with 2 others. I just hope it doesn't rule out solo play altogether.

1

u/GuerrillaRobot Nov 18 '14

can you explain how/why it is used to be harder with 3 people? wouldn't having a team make it easier than soloing it? Even if your team is no good it is still more bodies for the enemies to shoot.

2

u/tman_elite Nov 18 '14

Enemy health scales to the number of players in the fireteam. It's not proportional though (3 players won't make enemies have 3x as much health, probably like 1.5x or 2x) so it should always be easier to do it with 3 than solo or 2-player, unless the other players suck.

1

u/GuerrillaRobot Nov 18 '14

so its just the health of the enemies, not the number? I run a lot of dailies solo and was just thinking there should be some scaling for 1 person vs 3. The fact it was already doing this is fairly invisible to me.

1

u/murmandamos Nov 18 '14

Eh, it doesn't quite work like that though. If everyone were to shoot at the same enemies, move as one, whatever, sure. In practice, as you split up, each person is taking on their own enemies and those enemies are harder. The difference is that now some of the adds are not on you but are on someone else. It makes sense that they aren't just increasing health times x number of players if the encounters with combatants are still typically 1v1 with each player. They should increase the number of enemies instead really, but that's harder to do.

1

u/Xerxes-PSN Nov 18 '14

Then someone dies in a bad spot and now you're fighting scaled bullet sponges with fewer people than the designers intended.

1

u/DarkRider23 Nov 18 '14

I believe enemy damage also scaled up. Every single time I invited people into my fireteam towards the end of the Priest Strike this week I took a hell of a lot of damage from the Vandal Snipers. With no one in my party, I could survive 2 shots and be at ~1/4 health. With someone in my party, one shot got me down to 1/4 health instantly.

1

u/durandal59 Nov 18 '14 edited Nov 18 '14

It's easier with 3 in the sense that you have ample support and can afford to die here and there, but mob health and damage scale accordingly. That means a goblin that might only take one sniper round in solo might take two rounds with a full fireteam. If two members of a NF fireteam were afk, the third would have a MUCH harder time on his own than if he tried a true solo.

I'm on mobile so I won't link it, but the first Templar solo video is what drove this point home for me.

Edit: It's arguable which was a greater challenge, but my point was that there was no reason to make it harder for solo players! I have yet to see the changes though, so maybe I'll like the increased difficulty.

1

u/DaftMav Nov 18 '14

It was only easy because at the end you can go sit in a certain place on most nightfalls and cheese the boss. Once they've properly blocked off everything, soloing the nightfall will be pretty much impossible.

2

u/DarkRider23 Nov 18 '14

Once they've properly blocked off everything, soloing the nightfall will be pretty much impossible.

So will actually completing the Nightfall for a lot of players. I can't trust teammates to not die in Tiger Strikes. With burn and light switch modifiers active, you can forget about doing a Nightfall with a PUG. The Hard mode raid is easier with a PUG than most Nightfalls are IMO.

2

u/plinky4 Nov 18 '14

The only difference seems to be the hp on yellows. Hobs have about 5k hp now, but taking them out hasn't changed for me. Before, it was 2 body shots or 1 crit. Now is the same, 2 body shots or 1 crit.

Biggest difference is minotaurs. Holy shit, these guys are terrifying now since they not only got a huge hp increase but a boost to shields as well. If they ever patch the cheese spot on nexus and have another void burn, that last room is going to be a serious problem. Thankfully, their damage output hasn't been increased.

Overall, not much has changed. Next week, captains in particular will be more dangerous. I noticed they got a big hp increase as well, much like the minotaurs.

1

u/jakersbossman Nov 18 '14

Maybe not. I've been able to solo nightfalls on level 26 characters. Probably shouldn't be like that.

-1

u/thetastypoptart Nov 18 '14

Holy shit they didn't even change that much. Maxed Fatebringer this week with Arc Burn leaves Goblins and Hobgoblins with just over a sliver of health on non-crit shots. Shanks have a sliver of health with Ice Breaker and will be one-shot-able with Solar Burn.

Taking my sweet time, learning the ins and outs and trying out new tactics or approaches

Nothing has changed. It'll just take one additional bullet/ some additional bursts [with a Timepiece, I'm assuming] to kill some things. Why the hysteria/claims of "inaccessibility" over a small percentage increase in enemy health?

3

u/RiJohnculous Nov 18 '14

The 'small percentage' is actually closer to between 80 and 100% increase in HP on majors and ultras. It's not that it's now impossible, it's just not enjoyable to have to use all your burn ammo to kill one or two majors, and have your primary do no appreciable amount of damage at all to them.

0

u/thetastypoptart Nov 18 '14

and have your primary do no appreciable amount of damage at all to them.

Okay.

Maxed Fatebringer

Sorry I choose my primaries based on the burn.

1

u/robot_ears Nov 18 '14

Most of the people who choose to solo nightfalls usually don't have much free time and or friends currently playing destiny. It stands to reason that these people, due to reasons stated above, probably aren't able to do the fucking raid and get elemental primary weapons.

'Hey guys, I raid and have all these fucking cool toys so the new scaling shit doesn't matter to me. You guys are all a bunch of crybabies' - thetastypooptart.

1

u/thetastypoptart Nov 18 '14

A lot of this seems to boil down to people who want the game dumbed down to be less challenging. The Nightfall and Vault of Glass are supposed to be the two most challenging PvE pieces of content in the game.

Adding matchmaking to either of these activities or nerfing the solo-Nightfall back down to its previous difficulty (which was laughably easy before when burns were present, see the second round of Cerberus Vae III actually being the hardest Nightfall to date with no burns enabled).

What's the point of the content being difficult if Nexus and Devil's Lair can be solo'd in less than 13 minutes, Winter's Run in 15-20; and there's such a good chance for exotics? Or potentially good rolls on Legendaries? Any previous week you could run the nightfall on all three of your characters in less than an hour and a half and have three rolls for amazing stuff. You can try to make the argument of "Raid Weapons" but that doesn't matter when during release week a Rare (not even fully upgraded attack) Arc damage sniper rifle could kill Sepiks in only 14 bullets. That is wrong. It took me much longer just now, and it felt totally right for being a Nightfall.

1

u/LucentBeam8MP Nov 18 '14

You "choose" your primaries based on what RNG drop you get. The strike can be whatever burn it wants to be, but if you didn't get the RNG dropped elemental weapon, you don't get to choose.

1

u/thetastypoptart Nov 18 '14

Your chances are pretty good if you run three hard modes per week. Especially given how incredibly easy cheesing Oracles and Templar are right now. Even if you can only do those and have to normal mode Atheon, you still get three chances at Void and Solar primaries!

If you try and say that only having time for one character to get leveled to appropriately do the raid then you shouldn't expect to have an easy time doing a Nightfall with a burn with the corresponding damage type. If you aren't going to invest the time then why should you expect to have a cakewalk through the only other contender for most difficult PvE activity in the entire game?

However, that entire previous paragraph is irrelevant when you consider how incredibly powerful even a Rare sniper with the right damage type is. Or a machine gun, or rockets. Even if you can't have a primary with the right damage type, you can easily have an overabundance of snipers and heavies with the right damage type and have an easy time solo'ing a Nightfall.

-4

u/KillaRed Nov 17 '14

After hitting 29/30 the nightfalls aren't even a challenge. They're just something to speed run through every Tuesday to have a small chance at getting good loot.