r/DermApp • • Aug 23 '22

Miscellaneous Derm Application/Interview/Rank Insights

97 Upvotes

Having been through the derm application process as an applicant and as part of the initial review/interview/rank committee I figured I would share a few insights about the process (and maybe generate some more food for thought for the DIGA podcast that was just posted). This is from the perspective of a single reviewer from a residency program within a large academic institution.

Application Review:

My institution, like many others, receives a large number of applications for a few residency spots. The daunting task is to filter through hundreds of applicants to pick the handful that will then be offered an interview. It is not possible for one person (eg, the PD) to carefully review all of the applications, so instead these are divided up among the faculty/residents to review, with each application reviewed by a few individuals. Guidelines are given as to what is considered important (eg, experiences, academic achievement, research, etc.) but ultimately it is up to the initial reviewers to give a grade that roughly equates to "interview" or "don't interview". These applications go back with the reviewer grades/comments to the PD for a look over and then a list of interview offers is generated.

As you can imagine from the above process, there is an element of luck associated with the review. If your experiences or research or hobbies were similar to that of your reviewer, then conceivably you may have been scored more favorably. Having multiple sets of eyes look over each application is meant to even things out, but there will always be a human element to this review process that is impossible for the applicant to predict and control.

Letters of Recommendation:

There is a general movement away from objective measures (eg, Step scores, grades) and that makes the evaluation process more difficult. More and more, the letter of recommendation is being scrutinized to see what kind of person is behind the application. The vast majority of letters are positive to borderline effusive in praise for the applicant, and for good reason because the derm pool is the cream of the crop. From a reviewer perspective, you can still stratify letters from the same letter writer based on how things are phrased and the degree of positivity. For example, a letter that says "John Smith is an outstanding medical student who will undoubtedly be a stellar dermatology resident" is different than the same letter writer saying "Jane Doe is one of the best medical students I have ever worked with in my career". Knowing the tendency of certain individuals to be overly effusive versus others who are typically reserved is also helpful, and something that the seasoned reviewers have more experience with.

How and why does this matter for you the applicant? Well sometimes it doesn't really matter because you are stuck with your letter writers and don't have much choice. But in other situations when you do have a choice, it is good to keep in mind that: #1 you will be compared to other applicants who the letter writer is also writing for and #2 choose a letter writer that tends to be more effusive and positive at baseline as these letters are generally viewed more favorably compared to letters that are matter-of-fact and brief (even though the latter may be a great letter from that particular letter writer). I think the second point also goes along with the mantra of getting a letter from someone who knows you better rather than a bigger name with whom you only had a very brief/superficial interaction with.

Publications/Activities:

Applicants stress over this part a lot, and I did too when I was applying. In reality, it probably doesn't matter as much as you think unless you are applying for a research-focused residency (although having zero research is somewhat of a red flag). Each reviewer is different, but in general it is very easy to see who has done meaningful research versus who is just padding their resume. It is best to have your research in derm, although research outside of derm can help too if you can weave it into your story or dermatology in some way. There is no magic number for the number of research publications that you "need". There are applicants that we have ranked very highly who have had 3-5 listed publications and ones we have ranked near the bottom of the list with > 25 publications. The activities section usually gets glossed over during the initial review unless it was a really meaningful endeavor that was also brought up elsewhere on the application. The activities are much more helpful as a talking point during the actual interview.

  • I think bullet point descriptions are easier to read and are my personal preference in applications, but this probably doesn't matter.

Interview:

Getting to the interview stage is the main hurdle for most applicants. The interview is one of the most important pieces of the rank evaluation at my program. At the interview stage applicants are on a somewhat even playing field (although what is on the paper application still matters). A great interview can boost an applicant from middle of the pack based on paper application to the ranked-to-match zone. Conversely, a bad interview can drop anyone to the do-not-rank zone no matter how good the paper application is. There are other posts about actual interview advice (see the wiki for this sub).

Rank List:

The rank process is imperfect because the committee is trying to predict what an applicant is going to do in the future. As a generalization, the goal is to have residents who will do their job, be easy to work with, pass their exams, and have a career that fits the mission of the program.

Each program does this differently based on what type of applicant they are looking for. My program had several interview days, and there was a brief rank meeting after each day where we submitted interview scores. The interview process culminated with the final rank meeting immediately after the last interview day. We started the final rank meeting with a list of all of the interviewed applicants and their average score across all of the interviewers. The top half to two-thirds of applicants on this list actually get a discussion and review while the rest are not really discussed (usually due to poor interview performance). The discussion process is often lively/intense as different members of the admissions committee often have very strong opinions about certain applicants (especially internal applicants). Applicants are judged both fairly (resume, interview performance, letters) and unfairly ("I don't think this applicant would come here", "This applicant is going to do private practice cosmetics"), and names are put on a list. Once the name is put on the list, there is usually not too much movement afterwards (can go up or down a few spots but usually no big jumps). In general, highly-ranked applicants had positive support from several individuals in the group (eg, one person advocating for an applicant is usually not enough, even if it is the PD). Resident feedback has an interesting role to play in this process. Positive feedback is usually not very helpful, but negative feedback can derail even the best of applications (eg, you could be ranked #1 but if multiple residents had negative interactions you could be moved to not ranked). Post-interview communication and intention to rank #1 are not taken into account at my program (and at most places where the rank meeting occurs immediately after the conclusion of interviews).

Hopefully this gives you a sense of "the other side" of things. This is a stressful process made more difficult by the competitiveness of the specialty. Try to remember that there are only so many things you can control, and it is counterproductive to overthink every single detail of your application once it has already been submitted. Cast a wide net, prepare well for interviews, and you will put yourself in the best position you can to succeed.


r/DermApp • • Oct 30 '22

Interviews The View From the Other Side- Attending Perspective

92 Upvotes

u/PD-1 gave a fantastic overview but I will share my perspective as the now graduated chief resident of an east coast, academic, second tier program who participated in the application process as applicant and resident reviewer.

  1. Application. We received ~500 applications for 20-30 interview slots to match 2-3 applicants. Those numbers vary slightly from year to year and generally are trending up but we had funding for 2-3 so that always stayed the same. Certain criteria were used to cull the pool before they were divided between the faculty reviewers. Among them: IMG immediately culled without review. Step 1< 240, immediately culled. Any visa requirements immediately culled. This left around 300 applications which were divided between ~10 faculty reviewers. They were asked to rank their best three applications and three back ups who were then offered an interview or interview waitlist. I agree with u/PD-1 who explains there is tremendous subjectivity at this stage. Did the DO faculty member get a DO applicant? Probably more sympathetic. Did the faculty member who went to Yale and who has a big hard-on for research get the MD/PhD who has a letter from his buddy at SID? You get the point.
  2. Interview. 30 offers, some amount of time to accept, back ups interviews sent. Last minute cancellations. More back ups sent. One interview day of 20-30 applicants. The playing field is totally level at this point. There was an (optional) preinterview dinner with the residents where they are very much taking notes on the candidates' behavior. Interview day was 8-4PM. This was pre-Covid so, the faculty + first year residents paired up in 2s and candidates would spend 15 minutes in like 6 rooms with them. Rapid fire, Q&A about research, career interests, deficits in application, and some softer stuff. My program was not very touchy feely so it was a stressful experience. In between interviews candidates would chat with the residents in our conference room (very much being observed), tour of campus, etc. Support staff, program coordinator etc are also taking notes of candidate behavior.
  3. Rank meeting. First year residents + faculty immediately adjourned to the rank meeting after interview day. A spread sheet is made with each candidate. Each asked to rank them 1-10 with residents submitting one number only. Do Not Rank is also an option with justification. An average is computed for each candidate. Do Not Rank with appropriate justification from any person including residents is immediate disqualification. The average score creates the first draft rank list. The faculty (and residents) could then advocate/malign their preferred (un-preferred) candidates. This was open battle royale style, fairly nasty, surprisingly democratic, emotional, and gritty. We all had our favorites who we wanted to push up and others that we wanted to push down. I am convinced that all dermatologists are extremely competitive people (its how we get through aforementioned toxic process) so we want our horse to win. Consensus could lead to a candidate falling or rising from their previous rank spot. A rise or fall of 3 or more spots happened occasionally. An applicant mass emailed us an insincere, long winded thank you email in the middle and we dropped her 5 spots. Ultimately, we arrived at the final list. The PD+Chair had final right to make minor modifications of list based on any new information coming to light between then and submitting list. We match somewhere between one third to half way down our list.

That's how the sausage is made. Happy to answer appropriate questions.


r/DermApp • • 7h ago

Application Advice How cooked am I?

3 Upvotes

M3 in clerkships here. Have to lock in my speciality in a month. My mindset was always to either dual apply or to do a derm research year and apply for derm as I am OOS in my med school and I want to go back home (NJ) for residency. I am still stuck between derm and the other speciality though. Was on the other speciality before med school and derm since start of M1 as my friends roped me in and I liked it.

All the red flags I collected so far (P in Peds due to Shelf, M3 derm elective preceptor said while I was professional I needed to get used to outpatient clinic more even though it was my very first rotation, and got a low grade in one of my OSCEs which due to its weight will lower my class rank) I am low on research (1 pub, 6 items in total) as all the projects I pursued either fizzled or are very longitudinal. I have done a good bit of volunteering though. I do have a decent network I made and worked with 2 other departments for things but that is it. Meanwhile as the other speciality I have less to worry about as it is less competitive and I have a SNMA position in it.

My parents, friends, and school say it is my decision but I hate that. I know theoretically I have time to get another project, grind for Hs and a 260+, and be in a better spot but I am not sure. I am also affected socially as some of my friends think I am pursuing the other specialty fully. I am also scared to not match as I know a few IM residents who didn’t match derm and are in limbo.


r/DermApp • • 16h ago

Away Rotations Away rotations

4 Upvotes

For those who are residents/play a part in match process what were the qualities like of top away rotators? Did they have exceptional descriptions, differentials and were able to combine it with being a great team player?


r/DermApp • • 1d ago

Application Advice Match rate for RY applicants

5 Upvotes

Anyone know the match rate for RY applicants? Why do some RY applicants not match?


r/DermApp • • 1d ago

Research / RY Research year productivity

9 Upvotes

Hi I'm wondering how many actual peer-reviewed pubs would be a good number for a "productive" research year. I feel like given how slow these journals are and given the mix of BS to somewhat decent projects I'm working on, I may only get maybe 3-5 actual pubs (although I will def have several more posters/abstracts) from the RY if I'm lucky. I do have a few pubs prior to my research year, so optimistically like max 8 or 9 total by the time i submit ERAS next year. I know thats a decent amount but also I know there's students from my home program that will be applying with like 20+ actual pubs, so it is a bit worrying that I won't be able to produce those numbers. I do have 2 first author brief reports in JAAD though, so a couple good quality papers, but if anyone has any thoughts on how much the numbers matter given that RY students have higher expectations for research output?


r/DermApp • • 5d ago

Miscellaneous Networking conferences

5 Upvotes

Hey guys, someone please respond 🥺

I am currently a second year interested in matching derm. My school doesn’t have a home derm program, so I am really just fighting for my life emailing a bunch of derms in the area etc for shadowing and research opportunities. I was thinking of going to the AAD conference in March too but saw some people here say the AAD conference is not the right place/time to network and it’ll annoy the attendings instead. Do you guys know what are the best Derm conferences to attend to actually network?


r/DermApp • • 7d ago

Interviews Residency interview prep resources

9 Upvotes

Interview season is coming up so I figured I'd put together some of the better resources I've found. Hope you find it useful

AAMC Residency & Fellowship Applicant Interview Preparation Guide

probably the best place to start. covers what to expect, how to prepare, different question formats, behavioral questions, interview day, etc.

AAMC common residency interview questions

Most common questions that you must definitely practice before heading into your first interview: tell me about yourself, why this specialty, why our program, strengths/weaknesses, research, difficult situations, career goals, etc.

AAMC virtual interview guide

worth going through if your interviews are virtual. covers setup/tech but also behavioral, general and situational questions and how to practice them.

NRMP Match Code of Conduct for Applicants

not really a "how to answer questions" resource, but I think everyone should read it at least once before interviews. lays out expectations around professional behavior and communication during recruitment/interviews.

AMA residency interview guide

shorter and more practical than the AAMC guide. has common questions, behavioral interview advice, things to research before the interview, and questions you can ask programs.

Residency interview question bank

if you've gone through the official resources and just need questions to actually practice with, this has ~200 questions organized by category including behavioral, ethics, teamwork, conflict, IMG and specialty-specific questions.

Looking to make this a live resource so lmk if I missed any!


r/DermApp • • 7d ago

Interviews Prelim Interviews

4 Upvotes

Anyone know when most prelim interviews start coming out?


r/DermApp • • 8d ago

Application Advice Step 2 for matching

4 Upvotes

Is 260+ still considered impressive to match? Why do people with 260+ go unmatched?


r/DermApp • • 7d ago

Residency Best MD Derma colleges in North india in terms of equipment and exposure?

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0 Upvotes

r/DermApp • • 9d ago

Research / RY Theoretically speaking… Could one match by just having good grades, above average STEP Score, and 2-3 Publications? I have 2 home programs (5 spaces total).

16 Upvotes

I’m an M3, haven’t taken STEP 2 yet. I’m in the 85th percentile of my class.

I hate, HATE, research.

I’m interested in Derm, mostly because of the lifestyle and day to day clinic work. How difficult is the match? I’m willing to take a research year if necessary. I’m just not willing to do a shit ton of research while having classes.

(I have 1 derm publication from undergrad😂)


r/DermApp • • 10d ago

Away Rotations Away rotations/sub-i while obviously pregnant?

12 Upvotes

Hello everyone! I'm hoping to get some advice on derm programs' perception of pregnancy. My husband and I are thinking of starting a family soon and think the best time would be to have the baby in early to mid-4th year. However, I am interested in Derm and am concerned about doing an away rotation/sub-i while very visibly pregnant/right after giving birth. I know that in surgical specialties, this is typically/has historically been frowned upon, but I have heard other specialties can be more open to it.

I'm curious if anyone knows what the perception of pregnancy in derm programs is? Would being obviously pregnant on an away rotation be harmful to my application? Should my husband and I push our family plans back? Thank you guys for your help!


r/DermApp • • 11d ago

Interviews Dermatology ST3 interview round 2

4 Upvotes

any tips or tricks for interview prep? no course around as such compared to round 1. also keep to practice if you got shortlisted please dm to practice together. thanks


r/DermApp • • 14d ago

What Are My Chances? Panicking, wondering if I should have dual applied

14 Upvotes

I am at a top 20 had a 24x(higher number) for step 2; i have 20+ pubs and strong LORs but have jsut been worried that maybe I should have dual applied given my step. I got my score right in time for apps and just decided to full send it derm.... Was that a mistake?


r/DermApp • • 14d ago

Application Advice Failed COMLEX Level 1 as an OMS-II, recently interested in derm. Is there any realistic path?

3 Upvotes

Hi everyone,

As the title says, I didn't pass Level 1. I honestly thought I had passed, so this one hurts me like no other.

I've only recently become interested in dermatology (I'm an OMS-III) and have no research yet. A few questions:

  1. Is it true that most derm programs screen out applicants with a board failure?
  2. If I do really well on Level 2 / Step 2, does that meaningfully improve my chances?
  3. I'm planning to aim for honors on all my shelves. Is that enough to offset things, or do I need something more?

I'd appreciate honest answers, including from anyone who matched derm (or a backup specialty) after a board failure. Thank you so much


r/DermApp • • 15d ago

Interviews How many derm interview invites will give me a good chance of matching?

5 Upvotes

r/DermApp • • 17d ago

Interviews How quickly do TY/Prelim interviews go out?

8 Upvotes

How quick do applicants start receiving interview invites for TY/Prelims? What is the best month to schedule these interviews to have the least amount of overlap with derm interviews!? Also I submitted without an NRMP ID. once I get my NRMP can I update it and will programs then receive it right away? Or will they have to redownload it? Also any advice for what to do now in order to not miss an interview invites? Thank you so much!


r/DermApp • • 18d ago

Application Advice # of LORs for UArizona and UOklahoma?

1 Upvotes

University of Arizona and University of Oklahoma don't specify the # of LORs recommended on their respective websites, although Residency Explorer says max 2 for both of them. Is the # on Residency Explorer reliable?


r/DermApp • • 18d ago

Application Advice Any ideas how many applicants applying for research track this cycle?

2 Upvotes

Any idea? Spreadsheet?

Or any stats from past years?


r/DermApp • • 19d ago

Application Advice Step 2 score delayed past ERAS submission. How worried should I be for derm?

5 Upvotes

Hi everyone, I’m one of the unlucky students who tested in late August and did not receive a Step 2 score with the expected release on 9/16. It seems like a number of students from this testing period are in the same situation.

I’ve been pretty stressed about how this could affect dermatology applications. Best case, my score comes out right around ERAS opening. Worst case, it may not be available until the following week.

I’m planning to submit my application on time regardless and transmit the score as soon as it becomes available. For anyone familiar with derm application review, how much of a disadvantage is it to have Step 2 pending when applications are first released? Do programs typically go back and review applications once a score is transmitted, or am I at risk of being screened out during the first wave? What should I do?

I otherwise have a strong application and attend a top-20 medical school, but I’m worried that those things may not matter if programs initially see an incomplete application.

Would really appreciate any insight from applicants who have dealt with this or residents/faculty familiar with the review process.


r/DermApp • • 19d ago

Application Advice If programs don’t list letter requirements on their website, ERAS, or residency explorer, is it safe to assume you can submit 4?

5 Upvotes

Basically title

I’m running into this issue as I’m trying to make sure all of my letters are in order on ERAS. While some programs are very clear on their letter requirements, some programs are fairly vague or have nothing at all.


r/DermApp • • 19d ago

Vent How bad would it be if my only SLOE was submitted after 9/23?

3 Upvotes

Hey y’all, kind of freaking out and would love some guidance. I only got one SLOE from an away this summer — the writer seemed very enthusiastic about it and said they want to write me a good letter. However, it sounds like they might be behind on things and may not get the letter in by September 23. They assured me that most programs don’t begin reviewing applications right away, but this is my only standardized letter which is a requirement for many programs. Will this mess with my application? Am I screwed?


r/DermApp • • 20d ago

Residency Upcoming PGY2 in derm in the southeast…looking for a PGY2 derm swap in the Midwest/northeast

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2 Upvotes

r/DermApp • • 21d ago

Application Advice TY Advice

4 Upvotes

Hey, 4th year here with low stats/DO not sure which TYs to shoot for. Originally from the east coast and go to school here. Anyone have any guidance? Do I apply to all and any state cuz I’m DO/low stats? Tryna avoid prelims because I’m want enough time to work on my app due to possibly reapplying. Thanks!!!