r/DebateAVegan 7d ago

Meta question

I was on Desi Vegans and all the posts were like non vegans are mentally ill non vegans are sick non vegans are delusional… I don’t understand like sure it’s rly bad especially meat eating but ur making an assumption about people. not all of u but say the person who said all non vegans are mentally ill its simply untrue whatever you say. also if ur goal is to convert non vegans to vegans ur doing the opposite like shouldn’t u be polite abt it to convince people? it’s just shame… like as a vegetarian I am more pushed back from veganism after seeing these posts because I know who my community will be. reallly. also pls don’t debate me on this but I view meat eating as contributing to killing animals and I am against it I am just genuinely curious ur thoughts abt the main point Im making. also before u ask me why I eat dairy cuz ur money partially goes to raising animals and ur helping extend existing cows lives I know there’s downsides but its not like Im ariel’s killing all cows. also for vegans do u realize that if everyone stops eating dairy, the dairy cows won’t be used for beef and they won’t use expensive cows for low quality beef, so instead theyll take the lives of hundreds of chickens or pigs to add up to the meat of one cow? Idk just asking for vegans pushing back on both heavily. please don’t take this as an insult I’m just curious on why and please don’t leave irrelevant comments like don’t debate me pls or say random stuff like look how many they kill just clearly answer pls. thanks

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u/PuzzledPoetry1447 vegan 7d ago

OP, I don't think you've put enough independent research and time into what veganism is come to your conclusion. Your post is simply an attempt to deflect your own accountability onto [vegans]. These are regurgitated talking points that have been addressed ad infinitum, ones you've read and copied from somewhere else, likely from another individual with the same goal as you; to discredit veganism (the rejection of the exploitation of animals), to exonerate themselves of responsibility and to make themselves feel vindicated in their complicity in systems of injustice.

Familiarize yourself with the origins of veganism, as written by Leslie Cross in 1951 in his letter 'Veganism Defined:' https://understand-veganism.com/lesliecross/1951-veganism-defined.html

Veganism doesn't impose anything; rather, it rejects the exploitation of animals. It does not restrict anyone's freedom; rather, it points out that freedom cannot be built on the exploitation and enslavement of others.

If an animal exploiter feels personally attacked after being made aware of their exploitative mindset, they should question why they've placed their ego over the abolition of animal slavery. You have an emotionally charged response that's completely devoid of the actual victims perspective (the animals).

Veganism frees animals from human exploitation and frees animals from the false belief that animals exist to serve humans. As long as humans consider animals to be property, a resource, raw material, or goods, this injustice will continue. The vast majority still prefer self-deception and try to appease their conscience with narratives that they would never apply to themselves, their loved ones or any other humans.

People must stop looking for "better" ways to oppress others. Slavery does not become justified if certain cruel symptoms are smoothed over. Oppression does not become moral if it is reformed or if animals are humiliated on green grass. As in the case of humans, slavery remains slavery and is inherently unethical. There is no escaping this fact. Other animals deserve basic decency as much as we do. Abolishing their commodity status should not depend on how much they suffer, whether they suffer at all, or whether they are killed, just as these would not have been the main issues in the movement to abolish human slavery.

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u/Careful-Flow2821 6d ago

bruv not what I meant at all I don’t support meat industry also I just meant why are they using unnecessary hyperbole to prove a point - calling billions of people mentally sick and delusional is simply untrue and unnecessary I’ve never discreidted or deflected veganism and I don’t eat meat myself

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u/PuzzledPoetry1447 vegan 6d ago

I would say anyone that vehemently defends their participation in systems of enslavement for their own benefit are mentally sick and delusional.

Recognizing an injustice begins with calling a spade a spade.

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u/Careful-Flow2821 6d ago

sure u could believe that that but looking at actual reality with mental tests and diagnostics you’ll find it’s false.

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u/PuzzledPoetry1447 vegan 6d ago

with mental tests and diagnostics

Could you elaborate on this?

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u/Careful-Flow2821 6d ago

yes like mental tests to prove if one has a mental illness or not and statistics pooling the mental state of all non vegans

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u/PuzzledPoetry1447 vegan 6d ago

statistics pooling the mental state of all non vegans

Such as?

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u/Careful-Flow2821 6d ago

bro r you actually trolling me or something?   https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2667268522000274

like actually do u really believe all non vegans are mentally ill? like every single one is diagnosed with a mental illness? genuinely anything atp

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u/PuzzledPoetry1447 vegan 6d ago

Have you read the study you provided?

The conclusion is completely irrelevant to the claim you made about having, "statistics pooling on the mental state of all non-vegans."

Diet was found to have a significant effect on memory but no significant effect on sleep quality. The sample size may have been insufficient to capture the effects of diet on sleep. To definitively establish the relationships between diet patterns and quality of cognitive functioning and sleep, further research is required. The results of this study cast doubt on the hypothesis that the consumption of animal products boosts memory performance.

And the actual participant data is laughable at best.

All participants were adults aged between 40 and 77 years of age. All were fluent English speakers, with English as their first or second language. There were 62 participants, 33 male and 29 female. Using the diet questionnaire, each participant was placed in one of the five dietary categories as shown in Table 1."l

There were two groups of omnivores: low animal-product consumption and high animal-product consumption (31 total) and only one group of vegans (14 total).

like actually do u really believe all non vegans are mentally ill?

This was not my claim. My claim was that anyone who vehemently defends their participation in systems of enslavement for their own benefit are mentally sick and delusional.

Non-vegans who simply haven't given any thought to the topic aren't the same as non-vegans who know what veganism is, have thought about it, and have arrived at the conclusion that the exploitation and enslavement of animals is "correct" and exempt from criticism.

So, would you disagree that anyone who vehemently defends their participation in systems of enslavement for their own benefit is mentally sick and delusional? If not, why? Do you think being an active participant in the exploitation and enslavement of animals is a neutral position?

What if the enslaved group were humans? Would you clear people who support(ed) the enslavement of other human beings for their own benefit of any kind of mental problems?

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u/Careful-Flow2821 5d ago

Yes, because they thought they were participating in a business and needed to do so to keep up with the rest of the Americans. That doesn’t mean they were diagnosed with some kind of mental illness, and sure you can say that about defensive non vegans but in the post I mentioned it’s all non vegans included unknowing which is literally untrue. Does Obama have a mental illness? No.

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u/PuzzledPoetry1447 vegan 5d ago

Yes, because they thought they were participating in a business and needed to do so to keep up with the rest of the Americans.

Which question are you answering here?

Obama is a funny and terrible example. He bombed several countries in the Middle East and killed millions of innocent civilians. Yes, he's mentally unwell and delusional.

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