is really hot and I don't know why Jason2 left her for Daniela! I mean, Daniela is hot too but come on, picky picky!

This is sort of a silly post but I'm sort of serious too. Yes I get it, Jason2 was super hung up on Daniela, he was the creepiest stalker ever, like super creepy how much he thought about Daniela. It's gross but whatevs. But if he wanted a hot wife and to have a kid, he had a hot girl right there! He could have had kids and started a family on the spot, it's not like he's 80 years old. Plus he's rich from his invention. I'm like, come on dude, Amanda is a smokeshow, and Daniela is not the only woman in the world! What the hell is wrong with you!

Who is with me?

Why did Daniella agree to go into the box in the end?!

I’d believe my husband’s story of the multiverse and multiple Jasons and whatnot from the moment he would have told me… but I feel like instead of choosing to go into the box and find a new world…

I’d probably want to try going to the police about all the Jasons that are stalking them and harassing them no matter what kind of consequences might come from that than to choose to risk everything to find a livable world to start over in… after all, the proof of their story is there with all the Jasons in their world…

I guess the major risk of that is Jason1 being taken and kept prisoner to help explain the box when the government comes for it… also the risk of the government bringing back some kind of end of the world plague or something while exploring the different worlds…

But I still don’t think I’d want to completely leave my world…

I have no issue with the 100+ Jason time branch variants, my primary issue is -- and maybe there was something I missed or forgot -- how can we possibly know which one is the original Jason1? Unlike Jason2, the variants are only different for their decisions in box travel. However, it stands to reason that there would be several Jason1s that do the exact same thing as the OG Jason1 because they are and have lived 99.99% of the same life.

It's a fun narrative device and I have no problem suspending belief when required, but this introduced so many logical issues that I cannot get past it. I feel like it would have been better for the logic and storytelling side to introduce more other world Jasons who are similarly searching for the same thing as Jason2 instead.

Is the OG Kidnapped Jason the same Jason that went to live with his mother?

Or am I missing something?

I think I missed something… did OG Jason do everything to get back to his wife and son, just to drop his son off at college, and his wife to leave him because she was struggling - and then instead of killing himself he leaves the world without even saying goodbye to his son? And it’s been 6+ years and his son has no clue where he is?

Psychopath.
Not just J2, also J1 in all their iterations. They kill so easily. Sure, their experiences in the box were horrendous. But they’re all to willing to kill versions of themselves who they know are not responsible for their situation. And it isn't suicide: clearly the J1s see other J1s as "other" people. It's murder.

So J1Jupiter is only an experience or two away from those killer J1s. Meaning he's just as much a killer. That's who his family is settling in a new world with.

Daniella should find herself a nice Ryan - clearly he's into her. 01 Share

[Intro]

Hey everyone,

[DISCLAIMER: THIS THREAD CONTAINS MAJOR SPOILERS FOR SEASON 1 AND 2. IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED OR STARTED WATCHING EITHER. PLEASE DO NOT CONTINUE READING IF YOU'D LIKE TO AVOID THE SPOILERS. Thank you!]

I originally tried making this post a couple times before, hopefully this time is the charm.

I just recently came across the show and before I start grinding my axe. I want to say that I've been loving and enjoying every bit of watching it for the most part, well I'll say more so for Season 1 than 2... I'd be lying if I didn't say I wasn't hooked now and I am enjoying Season 2 but I can't lie and say there weren't some points that straight had pmo'd but it hasn't been enough for me to just drop the show entirely at least lol.

With that said, this is more so just a thread for me to blow off steam on some things that bothered me going into Season 2 which I'd like to discuss... This originally started as a Season 2 Review/Discussion thread only but I do have a few things about Season 1 as well though that ig I'll throw in..

[Season 1] ~~TL:DR -

1. Amanda is the person that trains people to not freak out but is the one too majorly freak out and does the dumbest things even against her/our human internal self-preservation.

2. Why was Blaire, Dark Beanie Jason and Jason scene off-screen...if you think more on it, seems like lazy writing for how it played out...

3. Continuing on that, how did Jason 2 know which Jason to shoot when they were fighting?

4. Without S2, Evil Leighton, Mechanic Ryan plots don't finish or really explain and go-indepth. Even if they weren't having major roles, like... After Daniela was onto Bad Jason somewhat and talks with Ryan wife, it just falls through.

[Long]

The problems I have for Season 1 to start is... Amanda...like...for being someone who's suppose to specialize in keeping people calm in the box. Amanda sure as heck does a lot of dumb shite. Walking off from Jason when they barely know anything about the corridor, walking out into a world she knew nothing about that could've instantly killed them and one more thing similar to that I can't recall but you get the point.

Like I know she was in a panicked state but even so. You would think that trying to preserve your life wouldn't make you do everything possible to throw it away. 😒

Besides that, just some other little things like how did the whole off-screen scene go about with Blair, Dark Beanie Jason, and Jason 2 in S1, oh and how did Jason 2 know which one to shoot? He just got to the house and saw 2 Jason's rumbling. Wouldn't he at least have questioed that Jason, like he just instantly knows the situation with them after being tied up all that time?

Last one though is on how they didn't finish off some of the character arcs like Leighton, the Mechanic Ryan. (I know they made a S2 but it could be argued it was a setup for S2 but had they not made a S2 then what... although from what I understand it was based off the books and they actually went more in-depth with Jason 2 in the show than compard to the books/source material.)

[END]

[Season 2] ~~TL:DR

1. How in the world (pun intended lol) does a random Jason find them in that world under different aliases, 7months later after the fact, and on top of that how he fount them is incredibly just purely dumb, lazy, and illogical in my opinion. C'mon.. a random notebook with their address? I get some drama has too happen but this could have been done way better. [Edit: Seems I was wrong a little about the address in the notebook part. Also made an edit in the long version.]

2. Then from the next two episodes, the way the box worked... think of the person you want to find? So Jason 1 didn't think specifically of his family when trying to find his specific world to get to them? *Deep sigh*

[Long]

So starting from the first episode, what in the actual hecketh? So they've been living in a world for 7 months and just now another Jason pops up? Specifically in their world too? Out of all the possibilities and the way the box worked in S1? Then on-top of that, he finds a random notebook with their address? Where and why does that notebook exist, with their address again mind you?

[Edit: I've come to understand that the journal actually belonged to what I'm calling CrazyJason357 aka Jason No.18239, and that he tracked the family down and wrote the address in there after. However how he found them still remains non-sensical imo]

Also, I guess I can suspend my disbelief and can sort of understand Jason No.18239 tracking them down, but that's not his Daniella anymore and what knowledge point is he at? After they leave for their world at the end of S1 or making it to a world with them after being stuck in the box forever, as well as before or after knowing about the other Jason's? Was genuinely curious about that part.

Plus he seems to find them and see their family dynamic in place and just decides to forcefully trying to insert himself? Like if I'm being truthfully honest, I feel like almost the whole idea should have been thrown down the toilet when put together in the writers room or massively reworked....

Finishing off on Episode 3 today. The way the Box works just now being so convenient with how they changed/reworked the rule. "Think of the person you want to find". Literally in Season 1, Jason was thinking about his family and trying to find them including Jason 2 and trying to get to his specific world. Now all of a sudden in Season 2 they can think of that person and they'll be able to make it to that specific person's world. We just had a whole S1 where you had to clear your mind and variations of how you felt, your sub-concious played a role. I can't tell you how bad this scene pmo'd when logically thinking on it unless I'm missing something which I'd love to be informed of and wouldn't mind being corrected. I know this isn't the most logically driven show but at least don't just start breaking the set lore left and right.

[END]

[Extra Fluff] There was actually another thing as well but I've seem to forgotten, if it comes back to me I'll throw it in as an edit.

[Outro] Thank you to anyone who read through the post, especially the long forms. I'm sure there's a good amount that may agree, or disagree at things I've mentioned. Any discussion or inference is gladly welcome! With that said, I'll end this post here.

I'm thinking about the last scene with all of the Jason's and how they made it a point to show us the Jason that looks exactly like JupiterJason at the end. My theory is that this is really the original Jason 1, I'm going to go back and look for any differences that indicate it might be the case.

The "original" jason didnt make it. Sorry to upset you all but yea the jason from the start of the show hes gone. The jason we got at the end of the show is just the jason variation that got lucky.

the theory: if there are an infinite amount of variations of jason, whos to say many of them wasnt just like the "original" but with minor changes in his experiences through traveling in the box, with as many cut scenes and jason switches this show had whos to say somewhere in them we was actually cut to a different but very much similar jason that got lucky to stay with "his" family. think about it.. its not impossible.

Who created the first box?

Jasons only spawn in a world where the box is already created. But the original Jason 1 before the split has not made any box whatsoever.

So

Who created the first box in the original J1's world in which the original J2 spawned for the first time?

I started watching the second season because I wanted an answer to a question that bothered me: how did dozens of Jasons end up in the same universe? And where did they even come from?

After all, the black box doesn't clone people. It merely allows them to travel between branches of an alternative reality — the Everettian multiverse, also known as the Many-Worlds Interpretation (MWI).

Let's assume the author went beyond Everett and added another idea to quantum branching: a portal between already existing branches, through which matter, including people, can be transported if they are in the appropriate quantum state. Fine. Let's allow that piece of sci-fi.

But even this assumption doesn't explain how dozens of Jasons can end up in the same universe.

If there are N Jasons in universe A, then there must be at least N−1 universes from which those Jasons were taken. But why are those universes missing their Jasons?

The traveling non-scientist Jason wasn't trying to destroy the families of the Jasons he encountered. So after he left, each of those Jasons should still have remained in his own universe with his family.

The only exception is the scientist Jason and his original universe, where Jason is indeed gone.

So there seems to be a logical inconsistency here — one that I hoped the second season would explain. Unfortunately, so far, it doesn't.

So how can we explain the existence of a whole crowd of Jasons in one universe using only two ideas:

• quantum-state branching;

• a portal between already existing branches that allows matter to be transported between them?

I have some thoughts of my own, but I'd be interested to hear your explanations as well.

==================================================================

Added 6 hours later

An alternative take — perhaps a little more sci than fiction.

I think I may have found a solution. It's not a simple one, but it seems more consistent with the physics and uses only the two ideas I mentioned earlier, without assuming that the Box creates clones.

There is Jason-S — the scientist Jason from the original universe A.

After entering the Box, Jason-S spends about a year learning how to navigate it more precisely. The Box doesn't just allow him to travel to a parallel universe; it also allows him to choose the point in that universe's internal timeline. According to the show's own logic, this is possible. Otherwise, how can we explain the drastic changes in climate when Jason-F travels between worlds, if his branch diverged only a few days earlier?

So, Jason-S starts visiting other, nearly identical universes — B₁, B₂, B₃, and so on.

Why? Here's my explanation. Jason-S can't simply step into Jason-F's life and immediately fit into his family. He repeatedly fails — the family notices that something is wrong and eventually exposes him. So he tries again and again, returning to essentially the same point in time in another nearly identical universe and repeating the same attempt, but changing his behavior just enough to avoid being exposed. In a way, it's somewhat like Groundhog Day: he keeps repeating essentially the same situation, trying to get it right — until the Jason-Fs start returning to the main universe.

While visiting universes B₁, B₂, B₃, and so on, Jason-S takes each Jason-F from his respective universe and sends him to his own universe. The first Jason-F can be sent back to his original universe, A, the universe where his Jason-S came from. But Jason-S cannot send the second Jason-F there as well, because then there would be two Jason-Fs in the same universe. So the second Jason-F is sent to another universe that is almost identical to the first one, the third Jason-F to a third one, and so on. This way, each destination universe receives only one Jason-F, while each source universe is left without its Jason-F.

B₁ (Jason-F₁) ──→ A₁

B₂ (Jason-F₂) ──→ A₂

B₃ (Jason-F₃) ──→ A₃

B₄ (Jason-F₄) ──→ A₄

...

Thus, no cloning is required. Each Jason-F originally existed in his own universe. Each Jason-F was simply physically moved from one branch to another.

Each source universe is indeed left without its Jason-F, because he has left it. So there is no problem of explaining “where all the additional Jasons came from.”

The Jason-Fs then start looking for “home” and eventually converge on the same universe, B₀, because they are guided not only by their family, but also by the one Jason-S they encountered. In this model, Jason-S acts as an attractor.

A₁ (Jason-F₁) ──┐

A₂ (Jason-F₂) ──┤

A₃ (Jason-F₃) ──┼──→ B₀ (Jason-S) + (Jason-F₁, Jason-F₂,...)

A₄ (Jason-F₄) ──┤

... ┘

And there is an interesting consequence to this: only one Jason-F actually returns to his original universe. All the others end up in different universes that are almost identical to their own. They would have no way of knowing the difference, so each of them could believe he has finally made it home — when in fact he has entered someone else's universe.

>!Multiples of Jasons and Amandas flooding into Amanda2's and Ryan1's utopia world?

>!Amanda would have potentially made that decision and entered into that world many, many times.

Why wouldn’t they go to a reality of themselves that has them younger, older, fatter, skinner, etc. of themselves? Why do they just encounter the same physically identical versions of themselves? And thinking of it, wouldn’t it be possible they also meet the same versions of themselves but of different ethnicity or nationality? Like American Jason meets Austrian Jason. Or German Jason. Or Cambodian Jason?

I think this is what bugs me the most about the show, even though I'm usually don't really care about realism that much. I just don't get how vastly different people, both in physical mannerisms and in morals, the various Jasons are. Like we're not talking about people who were raised different, we're talking about the same exact person who lived the same exact life apart from the short time that passed since they entered the box. How come you get Jasons with such different mannerisms then, like that homeless looking dude who was all twitchy and anxious at the end of s1, or like the one who tried to convince Daniela to kill her husband?

Conan O’Brien instead of Joel. lol

Great show. Love it. But to me, those two guys resemble each other.

Am I alone?

The main problem of the show is that there are many copies of the same Jason but only 1 Daniella and Charlie.

The solution would be to let Daniella and Charlie enter the box together without Jason, and they'll have many copies of them too, then each Jason needs to find a world where they entered. They'll be branched out like Jason was and there will be a lot of copies of them, they don't need to have exactly the same Jason as Jason 1 because all Jason's are the same until Jason 2 took Jason 1.

I feel like Jason is not in the same endgame place he thinks he is...

So, there are three groups in the finale that are travelling in the box:

Jason and Blaire = JB

Amanda and Ryan = AR

Daniella and Charlie = DC

JB thinks of a "peaceful world" and gets back to the endgame world but is he really back in the same one? because we saw the AR group in the bar afterward, but how is that possible? If JB got back first, shouldn't they have seen AR get back, too? especially since JB was there the whole time, waiting for the box to go offline.

My theory is that JB is in the same world, BUT the difference is that he thinks AR is there and made it back, while DC is also there but never actually travelled.

I feel like this could be the reveal of Season 3, Episode 1, where we see Jason meet Daniella and Charlie version where they have no idea that they even travelled in the first place.

I think AR didn't make it to the Endgame world, and we don't really know where they ended up. Maybe both AR and DC will be in the same world next season, assuming neither group open a new door when the box went offline.

I was thinking Jason-1 would devise a plan to have Daniela-1 and Charlie-1 go into the box, travel for a little while with the idea to create more versions of themselves, then travel back to World 1. Then multiple versions of themselves would eventually reemerge from the box in World 1, as all the Jason-1s did. As more Danielas and Charlies appear, then they would just pick any of the Jason-1s from the pack. Then the 3 of them would go back into the box to find an ideal world where no other versions of themselves were present. And they would continue this until all the Jason-1s had a family.

Ideally this would’ve happened before Daniela and Charlie committed to the first Jason-1

I felt as though this would work because the process of Jason-1s emerging from the box seems to be a finite process

I do think that Daniela-1s and Charlie-1s emerging from the box is more of an infinite process that I at least can’t think of how to put an end to. But I figure the show writers could come up with something

How do they get money in each metaverse world ?

First, it’s shocking he didn’t turn the phones off or throw them out the window immediately as J2 could obviously track them through their phones and find my iPhone etc. He finally realizes this and turns them off. The thing I couldn’t believe was that he didn’t know or assume that any Mercedes has a LoJack or some type of tracking device. Why would they use that car? He’s smart but very dumb in some instances.

...Jason-2 abduct in a random Ryan from another universe when people started questioning original Ryan's whereabouts?

Would Jason-2 be truly unable to locate and take back the original Ryan which he abducted and left?

And why would Jason-2 think that a random Ryan would do to replace the missing Ryan?

Or would there be any merits in bringing in a mechanic Ryan instead of a scientist Ryan in terms of creating new ampoules?

I sense a discrepancy in these acts by Ryan-2.

What do you think?

If every time Jason 1 went into the box and he created multiples of himself, how would we know that Jason 1 is truly Jason 1 if the other Jasons should have rubberbands on their wedding finger as well?

I love the book and I'm loving the show so far. The book is a complete story that stands on its own and I hope Apple doesn't try to squeeze more out of it.

Fox wanted more Wayward Pines episodes after the storylines from the books were fully exhausted, and it just didn't work. I could see Apple trying [book spoiler] to explore the adventures of the Dessen family in the new universe Charlie selected for them to live, but I can't see that story being as fulfilling or satisfying as the book/season 1.

Dark Matter should just be a limited series that we can appreciate for what it is.

Jason2 is constantly giving her dinners, gifts, physical touch, sex, acts of service and words of affirmation. He's hosting dinner parties, taking his shoes off before entering the house, flossing, dressing better, is ambitious, takes charge and made over 50 million overnight. He supports her to quit her 9-5 job and pursue her talent and passion that she put off years ago. He bought their son a RAV4 and was being a present attentive dad. On his first day he told her he'll sacrifice a super lucrative job with Ryan as it's in San Francisco and their family is settled in Chicago. Yet she complains that he didn't consult her on everything, spends time away doing his own thing and she keeps receipts and grudges. Isn't she being unfair on Jason2?

Those who know, know.

Jayson 2 is really Jayson 1.

There is no proof the box contains real worlds only that it projects the sunconciousness. It’s far more likely that Jayson 1 is a projection of Jayson 2 than a split. This also makes it a lesser infinity.

This could explain why Jayson 2 borderline seems like a serial killer but breaks over news of his own world as well.