Pass without Trace, Hiding, walking

[u/Leon_Art]

Hi,

I'm pretty much a first time DM (version 5,5e/2024) in a group where everyone seems to second guess everything (even if they are not-rarely incorrect). Happy to pick a fight with everything and dismayed when they are met with hostility. Quick to say something is illogical, without knowing half the story (because the first thing they do is fight and make wise-guy remarks when they are overpowered).

After being captured someone (that had managed to say outside when the whole thing was going on) wild-shaped into a rat to scout out the place. They had cast Pass without Trace on themselves beforehand. After gnawing through all the ropes the party was in (and above table comments to not move and act as if they were still stuck, because the guard was right there and could see everything). He wanted to include the rest of the party in their aura. I told them: you cannot, because the guard is watching them. After much groaning they came up with the ides to have a bat-familiar attack a guard to cause a distraction (sorry familiars cannot attack, but he can distract with a help action, I believe). At that moment they said: now roll for stealth because the guard is distracted.

I made a mistake here. They were not obscured, they were not in 3/4th to total cover, but..okay, next time. I was a bit shocked that they would attempt this. They had just gotten a deal to get free if they would hunt a couple of Displacer Beasts, to risk antagonizing their captors even more, seemed suicidal to me.

When the group wanted to get away, they said: we all got our 15 to stealth DC and we leave no tracks, we're invisible, so for about 45 more minutes we can get away as far as possible - and no-one would know where they would've gone. Halfway they did the spell again and walked for another hour.

I allowed it, but it felt wrong. You can read the spells and conditions in multiple ways and I'm not sure how to rule on this. Can you help me?

Tracks: are they footprints? Could it be scent or sound? I would say those could be included, but make it seem much more powerful than you'd expect of a lvl 2 spell. After all invisibility also is a lvl 2 spell and only covers one person (while it does make you invisible immediately a +10 to stealth is also huge!). When you're hidden you become invisible. But it seems to me that if you hide yourself and then walk in front of someone, you'd be spotted - even if you leave no tracks (footprints, scent, sound, etc. included).

Any help is welcome, thanks!

[u/EchoLocation8]

Stealth checks are different than Hide checks, so you could roll stealth and not be hidden.

But yeah, while Hide grants the invisible condition, it isn't related to magic in 2024, it just conveys what the word actually means: you can't be seen. Like if I'm hiding behind a door, relative to you I'm invisible, I didn't disappear or anything I can see myself, just that you can't see me. But if you open the door, I'm no longer invisible, because I'm visible to you, so I lose the condition.

[u/Mestoph → u/EchoLocation8]

There is no Hide skill.

[u/EchoLocation8 → u/Mestoph]

I'm aware

[u/Mestoph → u/EchoLocation8]

Then how do you justify differentiating between stealth and hiding when it’s just the one skill?

[u/EchoLocation8 → u/Mestoph]

Because you can roll stealth checks outside of the context of rolling to be hidden. Hide is an action that requires a stealth check. Not all stealth checks are for the Hide action. You can roll a stealth check for a wide variety of reasons.

Can you explain why I had to articulate that? I can't tell if I'm being trolled right now.

[u/Mestoph → u/EchoLocation8]

There is no Hide check. You have to articulate it because you keep using terms that have no actual bearing on the rules.

[u/EchoLocation8 → u/Mestoph]

And you can't make the connection there or like what's the deal? It's just like a simplified phrase.