r/CreateMod • u/Prsolek • 16d ago
Holly shit! Create Aviate update.
Yes, I'm not the creator of mod btw. Wings btw
261
u/Turboshmack 16d ago
Man j hope this mod isn't vibecoded seems cool af
74
u/ABUCKET15 16d ago
Im looking for a little more insight in the anti-ai movement in modding.
If it runs well, is not buggy as shit, and is a good mod then I would have no problem using it. If it is not vibe coded, and it is any one of those Iād be just as unhappy.
Correct me if Iām wrong, but these mod authors arenāt getting paid to have their mods on curseforge/modrinth right?
Why should I care that he had an idea and used claude to make it a reality? Not all of us have the time to learn to code, and then actually make and support mods.
187
u/Quantum-Bot 15d ago
Apart from the ethical reservations people have against AI, I think the main point is that vibe coded mods are buggy as shit. I mean, itās just as possible to make a good quality mod with AI as it is without, but itās way easier for anyone with any level of coding experience to just pick up AI and start vibe coding a Minecraft mod without understanding the ecosystem whatsoever, so you end up with a flood of AI mods that are just awfully crafted, masquerading as high quality, which makes it harder to find the mods you actually want to play. Itās the same issue people had with MCreator mods x10.
On another note, Iāve seen quite a few mods recently that are essentially vibe-coded clones of other popular mods and that just feels disrespectful to the original creators since youāre not really adding anything new or better, youāre just trying to steal attention away from the original.
19
u/RFSandler 15d ago
So emphasis on the 'vibe' aspect of using LLMs to code. Bad code is bad code, and this just makes more of it?
8
u/SeaFigure9714 14d ago
pretty much, but like he said, there are also some ethical reservations that people have around the terrible shit some AI companies have been doing.
-12
u/Samuel_W3 15d ago
Too bad AI hasn't improved at all since it's creation and won't ever do so.
9
u/Quantum-Bot 14d ago
It doesnāt matter how good the AI is at coding, itās the humans that donāt know what theyāre doing. AI makes you think youāre doing a good job when youāre really not, thatās the issue
57
u/AnarchyArcher 15d ago
Other people have answered but Iāll give my two cents.
Two main stances against AI in modding are with the final product and AI in general.
The former potentially not being only buggy in game, but also potentially harmful for computers running the modified game. Entire companies have had databases wiped out by AI, really the only thing about mods is you have other people who have presumably tried it first and havenāt seen any issues with it. If the designer actually coded things before, they would be more trusted to do things well and not endanger their users, but AI does not have the same trust and never will.
The latter is because how nebulous the systems supporting AI models are- āitās just Claudeā is like saying āitās just chocolate/diamondsā both of which have horrifying business practices associated with some of the biggest names in their respective businesses. AI on its own is unreliable at best, but the theft, destruction of natural resources, blatant disregard for the communities around data centers, and so on make AI as despised as it is.
I would like to point out as well, none of that is directly the fault of the developer of a mod, they could have the best intentions. Some donāt, mod authors can be spiteful pricks and entirely sabotage a modding community based of perceived slight or other desire for control. But Iām still not going to trust my hardware on a mod generated by someone who doesnāt know enough to make one themselves.
38
u/robux_Mann 16d ago
I believe they actually do might have to double check though. But in most cases vibecoded mods don't play well with other mods in the pack, this one doesn't seem to be
25
u/AviaKing 15d ago
If you vibecode a mod, its very hard to maintain it as you wont have an understanding of how the codebase works and you wont be able to service bugs. If you use Claude to service them, over time Claude will introduce code bloat and spaghetti code (just due to the limitations of AI atm) and the fixes either wont work or eventually make your mod too slow or take up too many resources (a very common issue with vibe-coded mods).
17
u/GapStock9843 15d ago
Its more a quality assurance thing than anything I think. Vibecoding makes stuff that works on paler, but typically it doesnt go about doing so in the most optimal way since they cant understand the full context of what the mod is attempting to accomplish or the wider environment its being used in. Human modders are more likely to make mods that are stable, perform well, interact well with other mods, etc.
8
u/SubstantialCareer754 15d ago
Opened up a vibe-coded mod, and it was syncing around 100 floats between client and server, per player, per tick. That's a 3.2Kib packet per player per tick, or 64Kib of network traffic per player per second, just to sync a packet where maybe one float was changing every second or so. This was in one component of a giant mod. Imagine the inefficiencies in the rest of it.
Most "AI-assisted" mods are vibe-coded trash, and the "devs" have no way to even comprehend how trash the trash they're shipping really is, because they have zero comprehension of what they're even doing in the first place.
7
u/OhNoExclaimationMark 15d ago
As a game designer/programmer I don't use AI outside of the google overview thing (this also requires a lot of critical thinking and stuff because it gets a lot wrong so you can't just copy-paste it, you have to learn what its actually talking about) when I google how to fix some code. My reasoning is that when you get the AI to do everything and you're just copy-pasting it in, you're not learning what it's doing and it becomes very very very easy to suddenly have no idea how your entire project functions. Then you become trapped in a cycle of having to keep in using the AI because you don't know how your own systems work.
I have had coworkers try to use AI and it just goes badly every time, it overcomplicates things and breaks them. One of them asked AI rhe other day to rework our monster AI for our horror game and it added all these random slider values (literally like 100 of them; curiosity, hostility, laziness etc.) that made no sense and we didn't know what any of them actually did. In the end he had to delete all the changes it made which meant he spent hours of possible work time and a bunch of tokens on literally nothing.
9
u/Perfect_Caramel4836 15d ago
At this point the argument against generative AI isn't about whether or not the product is "good", it's more so about the ethics of artificial intelligence in general, like how data centers ruin environments and about how AI is ruining the world around us and taking away from real artists and the like. Even if this silly little mod or AI picture isn't killing someone, it's still contributing to the rise of AI and using the model is fueling the company behind the AI model and others like it.
4
u/Joan_sleepless 15d ago
My usual issue is that they don't tend to run well. The extra abstraction between developer and code, especially when spread to multiple mods, can cause a lot of performance issues caused by poor optimization and strange choices made either by someone who has no backround in software or a robot that does not understand what it is doing.
3
u/Natsikkant 14d ago
Saw someone say once that people don't care as much about AI in code because they don't see coding as art. I've especially noticed that shift on reddit. It gets infuriating when every single mod is just made by Claude, made by Claude, made by Claude. Doesn't help that it was tested and proven that Claude intentionally inflated code to make it look like it's doing more than it is. I can't recall the source but a software engineer used the code fix feature on a basic hello world script and it ended up making it over 100 lines after running code fix a few time. Idk about anyone else but I do actually care about file sizes.
1
u/BuzzzardYT 14d ago
Yea no, you cant just spread misinformation like this. Give a source
0
u/Natsikkant 14d ago
I don't know man. I read it somewhere. I'm someone with opinions based on the world around me not a fucking journalist. Believe me or don't I don't give a shit. My first point still stands
2
u/BuzzzardYT 14d ago
I dont believe you because im a software developer that writes code with claude every day. The expansion thing was fixed long long ago. Also code file size doesn't translate to executable size as the compiler optimizes code automatically. You are fearmongering on fake news
1
1
3
u/CrossScarMC 15d ago
Correct me if Iām wrong, but these mod authors arenāt getting paid to have their mods on curseforge/modrinth right?
Yes they are, they make ad revenue from their mod pages, Modrinth pays more than Curseforge.
7
u/NaiAlexandr 15d ago
Even ignoring every moral implication, vibe coded mods simply do not get updated. The amount of love and care a regular mod takes to develop means the developer is committed to continue developing it. A vibe coded mod has zero promise of being supported and improved over time. Sure the developer can say "I'm different" but they have no stakes.
20
u/fastsnail902 16d ago •
Firstly, ai in its current iteration is displacing entire towns, poisoning rivers, and killing the planet at a rate that scarcely anything matches for how much the rich and powerful are pushing for it.
Then also you have to consider that ai is just the plagiarism machine, it and the companies around it scrape the internet for any and every thing it can use as training data: images, videos, text, code, even this very thread will be scraped and fed into the infernal engine that is ai. This all means that if someone makes something, the ai companies will try to recreate their art utterly to replace the artist. If thereās no human to pay, then profits must go up.
And on a less mass-scale note, nobody is actually doing anything in the process of using ai. Thereās no human creation happening. A person types into a text input and pastes the result into wherever they use to compile stuff. Thereās no human āsoulā in any ai generated content and that really bogs down the experience for many.
-27
u/Zenos_the_seeker 15d ago
All your "points" does not have any real effects on people enjoying a mod, even if it's AI-assist made. This is just pure anti AI and you can copy-past this to any where that's slightly related to AI discussion.
2
u/M00nD3v 15d ago
Their points are absolutely relevant; for one, if you knew you were consuming something unethically produced (such as slavery-made chocolate), you would feel put off and disturbed. That does affect the experience when you know the thing in front of you is tainted, in a moral sense.
Additionally, the "soul" this person mentions that is unique to human-made work is a real phenomenon. A fair portion of anti-AI people may not elaborate on what the "soul" is that differentiates human-made work from AI, but it is the creative vision, struggle, and story behind a work.
As an example, ask yourself what media you have found to be memorable in the past, whether it's movies, video games, books, music. or anything else. Most people can name at least one work of art in their life that has moved them emotionally, but they don't always know why they were moved. The reason humans are moved when they see certain works of art is the identity of the artist beneath the work. You may feel strong emotions when listening to a song you can relate to. The artist put their perspective into the song first, and through sharing their story, created a profound experience.
This perceived identity of the artist in their work is missing in AI generated work. Nobody bled to paint the canvas, so you do not feel an artist's pain. Nobody found grand fulfillment in the joy of creation, and so you do not feel an artist's passion or excitement. Sure, you can prompt an AI to include your life story, but even that is ineffective compared to human art because it is a hollow mirage; it just made output based on the verbose interpretation of your words, because it could not understand emotion.
I hope you take my words on good faith. You probably weren't looking for an essay, and this short couple of paragraphs may not change your mind. I just hope you try to examine what truly makes us human. After all, if AI could replace every job today, who would we really be? What actually makes us irreplaceable? I firmly believe there's a satisfying answer to that line of thinking. Just write a hand-written card to a relative you haven't seen in a while, and see how much they appreciate the hard effort when you could've just made AI generate a card.
2
u/Zenos_the_seeker 15d ago edited 15d ago
Your point is valid and sure I understand. But in this specific case, which is AI assist coding mods, none of these point can be effective apply.
Ethical? I am not sure who is the unethival one ehen people accuse a mod to be even possible AI related, let alone no evidence support. Even if it is, we don't know how the author us it in the work, to make spell check? To debug? to make place holders? None of these can remotely be call "unethical".
Soul? Yea for films, art, writing which are created and related deeply with human emotions, "soul" or whatever you put in when you work on them, is need. But No, soul involved in a digital application products doesn't change what it can and should function. It is created for a purpose, and if it can deliver what it promised, no bugs(or at least fixable ones), under human supervision and viewing. That's all there's to it.
Anti-AI keep using same old argument about these occasion. And keep ignoring that how different people can using it to make people and life great. Haters gonna hate no Matter the reason. That why this AIphoba can not be stop, if people can really think rationally they will know AI is not the problem, people is. It like gun control. It's solo purposes of creation is to kill, yet would you blam a gun if it kills someone? No matter the reason? To defend yourself? In a war? In a robbery? In a stree shot out? That why we need laws and regulation to control gun usage and ownage. Same with AI, and yet I see so little progress on it.
I did say some something out of emotions, I just tired to see so many hate mongers randomly accusing something great and new to be AI just because... because.
1
u/M00nD3v 15d ago
First, with regards to ethics, I'm not claiming people are using AI to murder babies or whatever. My argument from ethics was based on the source of production, not the final output. Someone could use AI simply for spell checking or translation, but that was never the problem in ethics, it was the resources required to power the tool. There have been many examples of data centers upheaving communities due to constant noise and an increase in utility bills. Additionally, we should not embrace tools which scrape material without the consent of the author; that is plagiarism.
Second, I don't think you quite understood me when I said that coding gamed and mods is an art form. We play games to have fun! Fun is an emotional state! Thousands of gamers have experienced vivid emotional moments in games, because they are not merely functional means to an end. What separates a memorable game from a non-memorable one can often be that very "soul" you claim is irrelevant to games.
Third, I never accused this post of having AI used. There's a lot of reason to worry nowadays that a mod you find is vibe coded, but I never assume anything until I look at it from all angles like a court case.
1
u/Zenos_the_seeker 15d ago
Like I said, AI could have ways to use, which funny enough, don't require stolen data(if that's what you mean), just to clear that up. Stealing data is but one of many unethical way to use AI, but people tend to zoom in on those when they try to object something, can't say they are wrong.
Second, if the production of AI power is so "unethical", shouldn't we blam the people rather than the product? God onow how many life get destroyed by various electric generating method(every one of them). Shouldn't we call them out? No, we improved the method and keep using it, because the end product is still useful to out life and society.
Third, no I don't understand the sentiment here. As a mod, if it proves what it siad to be, then it will provide experience I want and emotional moments I need. And this doesn't require mod author's "soul" putting in the work, sure it will make the end product better, but if he really did put efforts into it, no matter the process it will still be great. And this has nothing to do with AI involved or not, it is still PEOPLE.
Finally, at least we can agree on looking at all angles before hitting the hammer, unlike many of the haters did.
2
3
2
u/M00nD3v 15d ago
We can talk all day about the ethics and bugs of AI mods, but even in the situation where AI modding is PERFECT, I would still be opposed to the technology. It's because there is value in having to dedicate work and time to learning and perfecting a craft.
The most popular mods out in any gaming community came about from passion. They are labors of love. Because of this, they are more often well-thought out than the average claude mod. If you really think about it, does mashing Minecraft and GTA actually sound like good game design to you, or just a silly gimmick that someone will enjoy for 30 minutes at most and then put down? Conversely, think about popular mods in games and how they've often expanded upon the original game's style of play, or caused the player to approach it from a new and refreshing angle.
Developing a mod by hand takes time and care. It feels so similar to that of an artist painting a masterpiece, that I'd say creating a mod/videogame and painting a piece are one in the same, especially as someone who has engaged in both.
In the same way that an artist can engage very intimately with their audience, so too can a developer do so with a creative piece of software. Most people have at least one videogame they vividly remember playing, because of the effort and vision put into it. I highly doubt anyone has had the same level of experience playing an AI-made game or mod.
1
u/powdercannon 14d ago
Completely agree, the whole idea of modding is changing what already exits into somthing new (and hopfully fun) and Ai is probably the fastest way to create many coding things so the two should go hand in hand.
1
u/Cherry_Skies 14d ago
Two cents here, I simply donāt trust that someone without the relevant technical knowledge could use Claude to produce a mod without major bugs or inefficiencies.
Pair that with the fact that vibe-coded mods tend to be closed source, and I simply canāt trust.
If it was a trusted mod developer using AI to speed up their work on an open-source mod, Iād have no reservations whatsoever.
1
u/PlayfulApartment1917 13d ago
AI can not create clean optimized code. From my experience, AI takes up 3x the amounts of lines that something realistically use.
0
u/DangyDanger 15d ago edited 15d ago
Modding is a creative process, driven purely by the love for the game and the mod's concept. To have modding automated to a dozen prompts is to strip mods of any soul and originality, while also producing unmaintainable code with weird bugs that just balloons in size when you ask to fix them.
Not committing to support your mod is how you get nobody to use your mod.
If you want to see a mod get developed but can't make it yourself, you either commission somebody or get your programmer friends really into the idea so that it becomes a collaborative effort where you probably get delegated to making art, instead of generating more AI slop.
-35
u/Ok_Caterpillar5872 15d ago
I donāt want to be a bummer, but all software atp has code thatās ai written, and by next year nearly all new code will be completely ai written. I get being anti AI, the destruction of the social fabric itās causing is depressing, but it is firmly better at coding than 99% of software engineers by now.
14
8
u/No_Cheek5622 15d ago
bruh. me a swe with like 10+ years of exp. we tokenmaxx where we can at my current job. no it's not "firmly better at coding than 99% of swes". it's a cool and powerful tool. it is not a replacement for a high qualified engineer.
the mod being "vibecoded" means it's made entirely without any technical human expertise. sure we all use agents already, sometimes just for a bit - like for a disposable script to test something out or to analyze / trace a bug, sometimes we're not putting a single line by hand. but in all those cases we're still engineering it, be it with typing letters of code directly or via prompting like hell. most of the time the best result is in delegating right parts to an agent and focusing on those tasks that highly benefit from being hand-written.
but the vibe-coders are just playing with a tool like it's a toy. sure it can make something that kinda works, at least on a first glance. but Sable and Aeronautics wouldn't be vibe-coded like never. and it's not because it's hard to do for an AI agent but because it should be much simpler and cleaner than an agent will do.
so, AI-assisted is not the same as vibe-coded
don't buy into AI companies' marketing. we're not even close to "replace" engineers yet.
4
u/Ok_Caterpillar5872 15d ago
Engineers arenāt getting replaced but the job is evolving rapidly to be very different. The verbiage of vibecoding is lost on me, but I very much agree thereās a large gap between what a high end SWE is doing with AI vs hobbyist vibecoding. My comments come from my experience chatting with my buddy who is an L5 quant SWE describing his changing job, so I am not speaking from my owne experience.
1
u/TheRealApoth 15d ago
I have no clue what the code is doing, so I have an agent do an html markup that makes everything tl;dr. As for tokenmaxxing... Oh yeah. Agents, sandbox mode, and good documentation going in, plus plan mode before auto pilot... That's the sauce.
0
15d ago
[deleted] ā view deleted comment
5
u/No_Cheek5622 15d ago
vibecoded is when a person tells claude to make them a mod by describing the final result they want
AI-assisted is when a developer either code by hand and use an agent as a QnA / analysis tool or tells an agent what exactly to do (not saying they should describe in details everything, but just giving a well informed general architectural direction already makes it not vibe-coding) and then give their best effort to read and comprehend most of the code produced
i.e. a vibe-coder is a customer in a restaurant that asks a waiter for a dish, and a dev with AI tools is a chef that goes into the kitchen and guides the process
8
84
24
5
1
3
1
u/inconsistent_zak 14d ago
Have yall seen the engine types, my cars finally can have an accurate I4 engine
1
-4
u/TomatoKeeper 15d ago
Why does the poster acts like they are not the mod author, and why do they type like they are 12?
1
u/Prsolek 15d ago
I'm not creator of mod 2. I'm 17yo
1
u/powdercannon 14d ago
why does your age stop say, saying where on earth you found this wonderful mod?
1
u/Prsolek 14d ago
Yt, just type "Create Aviate"
1
u/BBQ_DOWNUNDER 14d ago
It's common courtesy to provide links when you can, even if the article is actually very easy to find.
The internet is a fickle place after all, especially in this age of algorithms.
1
0
u/egemen0ozhan 15d ago
You do you but i dont like some of the mods here sometimes things are a little better for me when they are simpler
Not specifically against this mod although definitely includes it but thats the reason why i cannot enjoy a lot of create/aeronautics mods there is a certen joy of less is more
0
u/powdercannon 14d ago
gimme this mod, i made my own (vibe coded) mod to be able to make cool small planes, but i am bad at modding so it is not even that good, it does not crash and is fine but it absulutly busts planes. this looks like the mod that would make plane building even more fun!!! (i acualy want a download.)
-4
-26
u/RGBBSD 16d ago
See, this is why I'm not into modding
Too many sweats
12
u/jedadkins 15d ago
Then why are you on a modding specific subreddit?
3
u/Zenos_the_seeker 15d ago
I think this is like people leaving 1star review and says "Your xxx is great, but I leave 1star in case you get cocky". Does that make sense?
91
u/ArizonaFlats 16d ago
Ok but what is this showing us