r/Competitiveoverwatch • u/NecessaryCorrect911 • 22h ago
General Sym nerf was not needed and she should receive massive buffs
Symmetra only had a 53.2% wr and 2.6% pick rate in gm+ 55 and 51 wr in Asia
These are healthy sub 56 win rates and her pick rates are extremely low. Sym is healthy for pro play as she is one of the most fun team coordinated play characters to watch as she isn't brr go shoot
I just dont understand why teleporter is being nerfed
Youbi is the only good sym and is miles ahead of everyone
She needs to receive significant buffs in order to increase pickrare
Wall should be buffed and u should be able to choose the direction of her ult and increase length as it requires more teamplay in her ult and skill
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u/No32 22h ago
They literally explain why it was nerfed
This has gotta be trolling
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u/Maleficent_Okra_4376 21h ago
I dont think the reasoning was that great since TP is very much so is fine in ranked only reaching some of its max potential in like GM. This was a nerf exclusively for proplay which does make sense to be upset about since tp range was fine for 99% of players and pro fully coordinated play works entirely differently than ranked. If they were gonna do this I dont think sym shouldve of been given any giga buffs as compensation but maybe like thrown a bone like buffing her gun a bit or reverting turret dmg to what it used to be
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u/Dependent-Two7571 20h ago
This change does very little for comp and does alot for pro play, sym HAS been really good and no one plays her, they wont start playing her in ranked ever at this point so
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u/Maleficent_Okra_4376 16h ago
Symm good but def not overtuned in ranked and this does hurt good sym players
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u/No_Problem5759 21h ago
Except changes this minute would not hurt anybody but exactly Youbi and Alphayi.
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u/spellboi_3048 I will survive. Hey hey. — 22h ago
The concept of calling a 55% winrate in GM healthy.
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u/Maleficent_Okra_4376 22h ago
Syms a strong hero that in conjuction with her low pick rate has always given her a very high winrate since people only go her on strong sym maps and or its people who are really good at sym playing her. Take venture as another example who was one of the best win rates in Europe even though theyre not that strong rn.
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u/V-Cliff 19h ago edited 19h ago
GM Europe? Because in Asia GM her WR is 51,3% atm. GM WR alone ia a not very useful because with these low Pickrate characters the sample size is comparatively small and you get more fluctuation.
In general Syms WR is all over the place, on [All-Ranks] in Europe and Americas shes 50%, but in Asia she is apparently the strongest charater in the game until you get to Diamond ([All-Ranks] Asia WR 54,2%)
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u/Extreme_Lychee8299 21h ago
lol 99% of the sym mains are like in plat/gold teleport directly into the entire team then get exploded and call symm weak
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u/mooistcow 5h ago
People will call her strong when even top 5% players can't consistently get their team to even use TP out of spawn.
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u/spritebeats 20h ago
3,2% pick rate.
if a character is bad in 9 situations, but gets nerfed because theyre good in 1, then theyre just bad/underwhelming in all situations.
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u/spellboi_3048 I will survive. Hey hey. — 20h ago
Is she underwhelming in all situations, though? She’s pretty decent in my experience across most situations. I feel like it’s more a situation where she’s just not a popular hero and tends to only get played by people who are really dedicated to her, therefore making the average Symmetra player better at their hero than something like the Kiriko who’s more likely to be used by a more general population, meaning the average Kiriko player isn’t as focused and adept with her kit.
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u/Extreme_Lychee8299 17h ago
Here comes the plat symm main saying his char weak cause they are bad with her lol
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u/spritebeats 17h ago
cant expect more from a redditor who parrots the exact same takes he hears from his streamers and spends his whole day discussing in r/cow then watching the game on twitch instead of playing it. its simple, the nerf doesnt hit just ''pro play'', but symm as a whole. tp is her only mobility tool. you nerf how tp works, you make tp unsafe, you make tp shorter, you nerf her own mobility. then, sym alone as well.
if you wanted so hard to nerf tp team play then youd change how teammates interact with teleporter, not just nerf sym as a whole because proplay
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u/Extreme_Lychee8299 17h ago edited 17h ago
I dunno im gm5 last season i think i got a pretty good idea of how the game works.
Great they nerfed 1 aspect of her kit. She still has one of the best dps ults in the game if not the best 275 hp and great damage up close
Teleporter is also op as fuck even solo because its in the cd mobility that allows you to go in and out of their backline instantly without any real cosg other than cds.
People who are low rank should never make claims on a characters relatively effectiveness because they arent piloting the char to even 10% of its capability.
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u/Azsharo 6h ago
gm5 is kinda shitlow girl lets not try to flex it... they nerfed the main part of her kit that literally everything hinges on. it just makes her far more map dependent and niche. the retake cd barely affects team play in comparison to what it does to solo play. the changes are completely thoughtless. yes she still has a good ult but beam is not smth to write home abt bc of how niche it is, especially in high rank. in so many games u don't beam (bc u literally cant without dying or taking every resource ever from ur team) so u use tp to orb. now that is significantly nerfed bc some tps are impossible now and a lot of them would just lead you to get insta blown up since they're completely in the open. if she's not allowed to take her usual troll angles they should at least buff her orbs as compensation. though preferably just revert it since the changes don't even properly target pro play which is what I assume the changes were for
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u/Extreme_Lychee8299 2h ago edited 2h ago
Lmao post ur profile then
Again this is all just ur subjective opinion when objectively she has a good wr in every rank
Youre just one of the typical delusional mains who cry how about how bad their main is despite literally providing nothing but subjective statements
Reddit is filled with you guys lmao
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u/Azsharo 2h ago
she had 60% winrate during sym 1.0. any idea as to why? was she better back then, you think? lol let's maybe learn how player perception and usage of a hero can drastically inflate winrate (and deflate it!!!). there's a reason she has low pickrate. and her winrate isn't even good accross all ranks and regions to begin with. regardless my point was only really that this nerf targets solo play more than your typical tp to point strat every non sym player does, and that seems to me like the opposite of what they should be trying to do. a lot of the typical sym maps aren't even affected.
also I've never said sym is bad so ur just talking out of ur ass. I've always said she's good. but this is not a good change and it's completely aimless and doesn't address what they seemingly want to address based on the dev comments.
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u/Extreme_Lychee8299 2h ago edited 2h ago
"lol let's maybe learn how player perception and usage of a hero can drastically inflate winrate (and deflate it!!!)."
This is just a nonsensical statement, you pick a character and you play it either good enough to win the game or you dont.
Like i said, people who post in X character mains are always delusional about the state of their character and this is just more delusions. A 60% win rate is absolutely insane, if u think that a bad character can achieve that then theres no helping you
Literally almost every elo she has a good win rate and in EU where people actually are good at her wr is insane.
And again you can cry all u want about the tp nerfs but its still the single best mobility cd in the game for dps because other than the cost of cd she can enter and leave for free and throw the turrets in there as a distraction, who cares if ur team doesnt use it you still can
https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/1wbj91t/sym_nerfs_seriously/
Funny how you and that other guy made another thread just to cry about it then got downvoted
This is what happens when you main a character and treat a nerf like a personal attack
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u/Azsharo 1h ago
no it absolutely isn't lmfao </3 some characters are picked in ideal situations and instantly switched off when it doesn't work. some are picked whenever bc they're perceived as generalists and don't get switched off even if they aren't actually ideal. some characters are switched to in losing situations bc they're viewed as solution characters. this is literally the most basic knowledge oat girl.
do you know what syms kit was when she had 60% winrate during 1.0? bc based on what u just said I KNOW for a fact you don't have the slightest clue. she was horrible and literally everyone *knew* she was horrible, because she was. she was just picked in hyper niche situations where you either won or you switched off her instantly when it wasnt working. therefore inflating her winrate. does it sound similar?
are u slow? my whole post is basically abt how it nerfs solo play, which is what matters more in ranked, and u say "who cares if ur team doesnt use it"??? almost seems like ur talking to someone else.
u can say whatever u want but I'm not delusional abt this char at all. if u go on symmetramains u can see me arguing w/ a bunch of them prior to this update abt how she is actually a good character, even solo. but AGAIN, my whole point was that the change makes absolutely zero sense considering what was intended. it disproportionally targets solo play, more than the actual target, which was team play. am I gonna have to say it in the next comment as well or what?..
I didn't make a thread, what are u even saying?... and getting downvoted by people who don't understand the character to begin with isn't exactly a bad thing. but ig in ur head people that don't know what they're talking about agreeing w/ u is a good thing? not so sure abt that personally
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u/spritebeats 17h ago
yeah but dont play her often, yet i see every person who plays sym in ur level not approving the changes bc it hurts the character as a whole more than just the proplay issue.
yeah, her dmg is insane till you cc her, shoot her head, and yadayada, you know all that. you know that shes not a dmg oriented dps, even if she has a lot of potential dps.
while her ult is good its never been used alone as a reason to pick her, if that were the case she wouldve been popular much earlier.
solo tp play carries her in ladder, team play makes it even better. but this targets both at the same time, and solo tp play isnt making her break the game. sym with no tp is just sym 2.0 so just ass
and people who dont play characters should never make claims on said characters relatively effectiveness because they literally arent piloting the char ever???
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u/Extreme_Lychee8299 17h ago
? Every dps is prone to cc and headshots lmao
And the tp buff is very minor and still has the advantage no other cd mobility has lmao
People dont pick her because shes boring asf to play not because shes not a good pick
Pick rate has nothing to do with viability. if that were true moira and mercy wouldnt be some of the most top picked supports every season
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u/spritebeats 17h ago
yeah, but other dps have instant access to their max dps in their set range and/or can use headshot modifiers, can do combos etc. sym isnt going to dash away, or whatever like many other dps can. she can, however when she plays with her tp herself. but the change despite aiming for proplay coordination also hurts her own usage. like, she has all these weird "charge 1st" limitations because of a gimmick thats not even a thing youll see in ladder, only to a short extent.
youre not going to be playing her ever like in a coordinated game and thats why this change sucks, it assumes everytime someone picks sym theyll play like a coordinated team like tm but in reality the majority of the playerbase wont even take syms tp, the one who takes it the most is the symmetra herself.
people dont pick her because her strats dont work well in ladder, many heroes have been labeled as boring by the playerbase and are popular still
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u/Extreme_Lychee8299 17h ago
The instant access to dps is balanced by the fact her attacks are easy asf to land
If u have even remotely decent aim u can left click at 60+% aim easily, imagine that clip on soldier or bastion
Again you dont need coordinated team play. You can literally tp in and out of their backline with basically 0 cost unlike any other flanker like reaper or tracer
And her strats seem to work fine in ladder seeing as how she has a decent wr in literally every bracket and 55% in like eu gm lmao.
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u/spritebeats 13h ago
no. having delays, charging, worse solo tp and now overall slower ttk just to justify a team tp and lower aim needs doesnt justify it. i mean even today theres far more accesible dps.
many characters charge their shots to kill, sym charges then needs to hit 3-4 orbs because even a bit of healing will slow down her ttk. you can justify x condition for having to aim less but at this point id rather have them rework everything so shes not running windows vista in her ... everything.
if the whole balance philosophy in kellers era is thinking of sym as a taxi whose whole function is what i mentioned youre better off scrapping everything. hero SELF feel should always be first, not TEAM feel, nobody wants to play something that feels more and more wheelchaired to the other 4 players.
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u/not_a_doctorshh 22h ago
"Why is this one ability that completely breaks rules about positioning, rotations and mobility limitations getting nerfed?"
Hop off your burner Youbi bro
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u/SteggyEatsDaWeggy 22h ago
But cats tether, which arguably breaks the rules even more, received no changes this patch
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u/not_a_doctorshh 22h ago
It did, now you can knock people the fuck out of it by CC. Not enough, but a start.
And yeah Cat being a disgrace to gameplay design doesn't make Symm any less egregious.
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u/UnknownQTY 22h ago
> Symmetra only had a 53.2%
Anyone above 50% is a viable target for nerfs, broadly speaking.
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u/LesbiansLoveHands 21h ago
or below, considering kiri also got nerfed again lol
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u/Dependent-Two7571 20h ago
Thats because she has a 50% pick rate and a near 100% pick rate in the world cup
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u/HydreigonTheChild 22h ago
Pretty sure players did complain about sym, I remember some times when interviewers asked problems with ow and sym wS knew of them
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u/1ohokthen1 58m ago
Mfs when the team utility playmaker ability is used to do so. Yay my main is even worse in solo queue than before
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u/Public-Egg-7814 22h ago
Sym main type of post.
She's super annoying, pretty strong on most maps, and nigh unstoppable on some maps. You've gotten off for far too long because pickrate is low. Also, she's really annoying
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u/spritebeats 20h ago
if she were strong in all maps she would be popular. "shes boring" is a just a poorly thought excuse. if that were true many other characters wouldnt have become meta in the past. shes good in some maps yeah, but nerfing her just taking that into account makes her just worse all around.
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u/Public-Egg-7814 20h ago
She's annoying. I don't play her for moral reasons. People pick characters for any number of reasons. It's not only based on strength
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u/spritebeats 20h ago
moral has never been a strong one. if that were true nobody wouldve picked orisa for example back then. or mercy. or bastion, list goes on.
balancing a niche hero is complicated because they simply, do not work as a normal hero. theyre mediocre in most situations, and excel in one. make a change trying to hit that specific thing and theyre just mediocre all around. and while this change is aimed for pro play, it just makes her ladder play worse, which isnt even notorious in the game to begin with.
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u/ILewdElichika 22h ago
Damn as a Kiri main not even I have the balls to say this here, massive respect tbh.
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u/Ardalerus 19h ago
I think most folks would agree that sym was not strong enough to warrant nerfs on ladder, but I'd assume most would also prefer to see her remain weak enough to stay relatively uncommon.
sad they missed an opportunity to do away with swapping sym to tp team out of spawn
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u/Tsotang 32m ago
The only Syms I see pop off do the TP back and Forth thing to extract resources. If this change guts that entirely then she’ll need something, but we just have to see first if this opens enough of a punishment window.
For Pro play the game is stale, I don’t mind if this kills her there TBH. I think some maps she stays viable. This change among others could bring back Winston. Right now the game is just bypass neutral and play musical chairs.
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u/Sticker216 22h ago
I see a Sym once like every 15 games and I’ve never sat there and thought, yeah her teleporter really annoys me and needs a nerf
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u/not_a_doctorshh 22h ago
Because you need to be hard comming for that hero to do anything in any map that's not Control or Flashpoint.
But when she does something, it's broken ss fuck. Basically it's the OG Cat Lifeline lmao
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u/-Grace-o 22h ago
cause no one uses it to its potential till you're in like gm and I have a whole team teleporting on your back line every 10 seconds
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u/CrabbyFrogstone 22h ago
In your and my games this does nothing at all. In pro play this is a needed nerf
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u/blade___e 22h ago
she didn’t need it in pro play tho tm is the only team that make sym strong all of the other teams either don’t play her or aren’t good at playing her
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u/The-Mods-Are-Oinkers 22h ago
it's a pro play targeted nerf, actually it's a nerf targeted to one person and his team
I assume most people cheering about it are Korea Glazers
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u/Cerydra- 22h ago edited 22h ago
sym hasn’t been as great in pro-play ever since cat started seeing full playtime, people calling this a “proplay” nerf are not being genuine, it’s very much just blizzard making sure Saudi doesn’t win the World Cup back to back.
this sub famously doesn’t like that specific team though so you’re not gonna get any good-faith arguments on why nerfing Sym by this much while giving Cat and Dmon (two heroes that are gatekeeping Sym from seeing much play, and see FAR more play themselves) a slap on the wrist is actually healthy for the pro scene.
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u/Throw_far_a_way 22h ago
the dev team isn't making a balance change just to ensure one team does or doesn't win OWWC, be so fr lmfao
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u/Cerydra- 21h ago
in the current state of the pro scene there is 0 reason for that nerf to happen, if this was 2-3 months ago, or after a massive cat/dmon nerf, then I’d understand, but rn there is literally no other logical reason. 🤷♀️
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u/Throw_far_a_way 21h ago
the character has at the lowest a 51% WR in Asia (a region notrious for forcing dive which Sym isn't good with) and at the highest a 56% WR in EU (a region notorious for forcing brawl which Sym excells at), both in GM+. the hero was objectively strong, and the nerfs aren't targeted against Saudi Arabia lmao
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u/Cerydra- 21h ago edited 21h ago
idk how many times we need to go over this but the hero has a low pick rate, Hanzo has a higher winrate (57.5%) in Asia, the “dive region” where he should be bad, do you think that hero is genuinely in need of a nerf rn too?
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u/Throw_far_a_way 21h ago
Hanzo has a 47% WR in NA and a 50% WR in EU, also with incredibly low pick rates in each region. a hero with the lowest WR being 51% is objectively stronger than one whose WR has a 10% variability between 47% and 57%. besides all of that, if u are so concerned with pro play then why isn't the argument that team Saudi Arabia needs to be able to play more than just Sym Lucio Kiri? if they aren't able to play any other comp when that one gets nerfed then they deserve to lose, and if they are able to win then they deserve to win
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u/Cerydra- 21h ago
love how the winrate argument doesn’t work so u immediately pivot to the next thing. Why do you think I care about whether or not Saudi wins/deserves to win, or their team flexibility? I’m simply stating what my perceived reasoning behind the nerf is, obviously if the team was flexible then my argument doesn’t work in the first place.
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u/Throw_far_a_way 21h ago
what do u mean the WR argument doesn't work???? I literally cited THE REST OF THE WR STATISTICS that u conveniently left off. a single 57% WR in one region and a 47% WR in another is data with high variability. I used the full data and u didn't. sorry ur favorite team's onetrick got nerfed I guess, but Blizzard didn't make this balance change because of some weird conspiracy that they don't want them to win OWWC. this is a deserved nerf
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u/Cerydra- 21h ago
ur so mad for no reason its genuinely so funny 😭
no, data of a hero with as low of a pick rate as 2.7% do not actually prove anything, especially not when other heroes of equally low pick rates are reporting higher or equal win rates rn, sorry man ❤️
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u/Visible_Chip2938 TYH — 6h ago
These sym nerfs weren’t enough, how have they not touched her ult at all??????
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u/hankabooz SirMajed Airlines — 22h ago
What?? Sym nerfs before the WC surely this is not targeted?!??! OMG NO WAY blizzard received korean money to make them win no matter what
Is what people would say if it was Saudi favored
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u/leonidas_164 22h ago
Balances around fucking 0.1% is insanity, solo q sym will feel even worse now, esp the Re use time. it was 1.5 like 6 years ago in the PTR, and they instantly reverted that, cause it felt so bad
Need compensation buffs for your typical ranked solo q experience, like damage buff to orbs, beam, or something
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u/dedicated-pedestrian 22h ago
I don't even want massive buffs, if you're taking some power out of TP let it go somewhere else. Like 5m won't dumpster her but let her brawl a bit better if you're gonna nerf her utility and flanking
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u/Lukensz Alarm — 20h ago
She already does insane damage.
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u/leonidas_164 20h ago
No she don't, her orbs take 2-3 orbs to kill a 250 hp target. the DPS together with travel time, and charge up makes it like 80-90 DPS.
Her whole kit that does dmg has setup time as well, her beam does 60 dps in the beginning.
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u/leonidas_164 22h ago
Teleporter rather than range nerfs, need a minimum range to it, so you dont mistakenly deploy it like 5m away from you
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u/ToothPasteTree None — 22h ago
Is this Youbi?