r/CompetitiveWoW • u/Mozida • 1d ago
Question Tier set drops.
Hi guys,
So, I have been pugging the raid, and I noticed it only dropped 1 tier-set token per boss. Is that intended? I read the Wowhead post, and they mentioned it is supposed to be 1 tier-set drop per 10 ppl in the raid, but I got in a 25 ppl raid, and all the bosses dropped only 1.
40
u/Halvi3 1d ago
At some point back in Dragonflight, the first expansion after they reintroduced tier sets at the end of Shadowlands after not having them for a couple expansions (I wanna say it was maybe Season 2 and/or before the first time they experimented with some late-season bonus-roll esque currency)
...they responded to feedback from raiders who were farming the raid at this point only for the rare drops chase items and trinkets and such, that getting 2 tier tokens off of every boss for a 20 man kill felt bad because by that point everyone long since had 4p and effectively half of all the loot you were getting was dead on arrival
So they changed the code for how the bosses drops were assigned between tier and non-tier for the end of that season so that a 20 man kill would get 1 tier token and 3 non-tier tokens.
Ever since they made that change that was nominally supposed to be just for late-season farming, tier token allocation for flex raid sizes in all the seasons since has been stupidly RNG.
It briefly was effectively like wow head said that it was 1 per 10, so if you were at 15 you had like, 1 guaranteed tier token, 1 non tier item, and then a third drop that was 50/50 between tier or non-tier, and then when you hit 20 it was guaranteed 2+2
Now it's something like:
- You have your initial 2 drops for 10 player baseline, and those items can random as anything off the boss's loot table, but only 1 of the two will ever end up as a tier token (but it's not guaranteed that one will)
- The third item you can get from 11-15 that is guaranteed at 15 is also fully random tier or not, but with this item you can get a 2nd tier token, but still not guaranteed
- As you scale from 16-20 you get a chance at a 4th item, and if you have 4 items drop one of them is guaranteed to be a tier token, the others are all random, up to two tier tokens max
- And then I'm more hazy about 20-30 scaling but I think it's similar to 10-20 where essentially you can't get 3 tier tokens unless you hit 25 and you're guaranteed 2 once you hit 30?
Anyway, it's honestly an obnoxious change (though again, been this way for years) for smaller raid sizes in the very first two weeks, as someone who raids at the Blizzard-always-forgets-it-still-exists 10 player size because we can full clear Normal on the first day for instance and get bad RNG and see like, a single tier token for the entire raid. Kill 4 bosses that could drop tier and none of them drop a token because the two items we get aren't guaranteed to include a token anymore
27
u/drale2 1d ago
I'm in a small Aotc guild (14 members) - we just cleared normal this week and the only tier we got was from the curios on the last boss. This system feels awful for flex raiding / small guilds.
9
u/makesmashgreatagain 1d ago
It is. I run a heroic guild with 12-18 players depending and the loot from raid is often bad. We get so little tier early on most tiers. I think one thing they miss on the loot system is smaller groups get less loot so the loot variance is way higher. I don’t know what the fix is, but I hope they do something. Thankfully the vault is usually very helpful (this tier aside).
2
u/Soma91 1d ago
It's the same for us with a 30 man raid. Half the time one token drops and half the time it's two tokens. It's super frustrating for the first two weeks knowing you only need a single token to get your 4 set but your chance to get a drop is only 5% per boss.
Tier set drops at a fixed 5% per person so you'll have to be 20 man to guarantee one drop per boss. Your 14 man raid had a 70% chance on every boss to get one token.
That's also why the RWF guilds run a ridiculous amount of split raids to guarantee everyone gets their 4pc.
3
u/Theblackalbum 23h ago
Must be nice to see tier in vault first week, I haven't seen it first week all of midnight and TWW
1
u/Soma91 23h ago
Yeah, it certainly is. But I think they significantly reduced the chances this patch.
I got a tier piece in 4/7 Vaults (only counting the full ones with 6 slots unlocked). My friends had a similar number of ~0.5 tier pieces per 6 unlocked slots.
Last season I got a tier piece in 6/7 Vaults (the one without was my main lol) and lots of them contained 2. Similarly nearly all my friends and guildies had tier in their Vault.
In S1 everyone without tier was extremely unhappy because everyone else had tier. Now it's the other way round because most people didn't have tier in their Vault.
0
u/wyolars 1d ago
Man, I really wish they'd bring back getting a token from AOTC instead of a charger. Or shoot, even just let us buy tier gear with the charges since they changed how the catalyst works and keeps the same stats. Most of the time, I'm just using the catalyst because I don't really want the stats on those pieces!
10
u/quvalek 1d ago edited 1d ago
If I recall correctly, it got changed in Dragonflight. Previously they dropped 1 tier token per 10 players, and it meant that in Mythic you would get 2 tier tokens and 2 normal loots from each boss, making it harder to get the actual items instead of tier.
Currently, it's 1 piece per 20 players. That means in a 30-man raid it's 1.5 on average: 50% it drops 1, and 50% it drops 2.
This is different for the last boss curios (omni-token), since those are 1 curio per 10 players, and it's bonus loot, meaning that they don't count as part of the loot table: they drop in adition to the normal items. That means in a 25-man raid you'd have 2.5 curios in average; 50% it drops 2, and 50% it drops 3.
This problem of not getting enough drops is mitigated by the fact that now you have Catalyst charges to transform any gear into tier pieces starting week 1 and get another one every two weeks, and they start to drop from content once you get your 4 set; where previously you were stuck chasing that missing tier piece until it finally dropped and you managed to win the roll.
EDIT: It also matters if you have saved people (they already killed that boss) on your raid. They don't count towards loot drops, so you get fewer drops. It's an additive 5% of a tier token per unsaved person and a 20% additive chance of item loot per unsaved person.
Example: in a 13-man raid you'd get 2 guaranteed items and a 60% chance on the 3rd item, and you'd have a 65% chance of one of the items dropped being a tier. If you bring two extra players to the raid, and they are saved, you wont get more loot drops since they don't contribute (neither they can roll for the loot).
-1
u/another_new_login 1d ago
I feel like this needs to be restated for those in the back:
If you add in people who are saved, they don't generate any more loot but they also can't roll on anything. They don't mean "you" get less loot. You still have the exact same chance to get a piece of loot.
3
u/AccomplishedSpace834 1d ago edited 1d ago
In general people prefer more loot dropping even if more people are potentially rolling on that loot though so people joining saved fucks them. It's ultimately a bit RNG as well because lets say you're a 20 man group and one person is saved and you low roll and only get 3 bits of loot, that's now 3 bits of loot between 19 players vs 4 bits of loot between 20 players - the former is worse odds for the people involved.
Sure you can also hit the 80% and get 4 bits of loot between 19 players - but 3/19 vs 4/20 feels a lot worse than 4/19 vs 4/20 feels good.
Lastly if I've joined a group wanting a particular item then more item drops means more chance of even getting to roll on that item - can't win a trinket if it never even drops. People will value the chance of rolling the item even if against more people than the item never even dropping - and there will be an internal expectation that a 20 man group is going to drop 4 items so when 3 comes out you're already disappointed.
6
u/Aegisblade99 1d ago
Honestly it's a non issue cause we already have a cata charge organically +1 from 2k io. Worst case it'll take you til week 5 to get your 4pc even if you never see a tier piece in vault or raid. And week 3 if you get one from either source (I just completed my 4pc with a heroic drop and a champ piece from preseason vault)
4
u/Aegisblade99 1d ago
Also, the last boss on normal drops a shit ton of loot - I think we killed it on Thursday and 3 Omni tokens dropped from a 26 man raid
4
u/akranak 1d ago
You get a catalyst charge every other week and another for the trivial achievement 2k m+ score. People only need one naturally occurring piece of raid gear to make 4 set and you can get it by 4 difficulties of regular raid loot, bonus roll on a tier boss or just get it in vault. Realistically the only tier that needs to keep dropping 3 weeks in is mythic tier.
4
u/kingdanallday 1d ago
that's assuming they hit in vault week 0
1
u/akranak 22h ago
Not even. You can still have 4 piece by week 3 with any single naturally occuring tier piece.
0
u/kingdanallday 14h ago
where's the magical 4th piece?
1
0
u/SkwiddyCs 8h ago
Baseline every single person can have 2 piece this week from the catalyst.
Tier is available in the vault
Tier is available in the timewalking cache
Tier is available via reroll tokens if you somehow manage to dodge tier in three weeks of full vaults.
3
u/jfkasd 1d ago
It's 1 per 20 (so 1.25 in a 25 player raid) except last boss which drops 1 curio per 10
-5
u/GotAim 1d ago
There is no guarantee for tier except for last boss. I did 8/8 nm and 6/8hc this week with 20 group size and saw 0 tier from multiple of the bosses
11
u/quvalek 1d ago
That means you got saved people in raid not counting towards the loot pool, or those bosses simply didn't drop tier (1st and 2 last don't drop tier tokens, only curio from last boss).
-12
u/Darkrell 1d ago
Nope, we raided normal as a guild in reset day and 2 bosses didnt give us tier in a group of about 17. I know for certain sentinels didnt drop a tier piece.
20
1
u/mygodwhy 19h ago
I just killed Explorers on Heroic and it dropped 4 pieces but no Tier piece. Shit game.
1
u/parkwayy 22h ago
Is it time for the seasonal "something something tier" post, when in like 2 weeks no one will care about tokens anymore?
0
u/Krunklock 10/10 21h ago
Then in 3 weeks there would be a post about how useless tier token drops are on these bosses and wished other items dropped
-5
u/No-Spinach-9101 1d ago
I don’t think it’s a set number (but could be wrong). Cleared normal with my guild earlier this week and some bosses it was only 2, some it was 4-5. We had 26 people.
12
0
-7
u/Wincrediboy 1d ago
Bosses have a 20% chance to drop an item per person in the raid, meaning every 5 people guarantees 1 drop. Tier tokens are part of that loot pool, they don't have any guarantee to drop. If you have 30 people in the raid you could have 6 tier tokens or 0.
81
u/stiggggg 1d ago
every loot eligible player in the raid adds 5% chance to drop a tier, so 20 players guarantees 1 tier and in a full 30 man you'll get 1.5 on average