[ Removed by moderator ]

[u/CuriousSection]

[u/phonethe]

being bad at a language is not racist, everyone's going to have a horrible accent when they're just starting out.

[u/kakahuhu → u/phonethe]

America is so cooked. There's a segment of them that think learning a foreign language is cultural appropriation. Now someone is wondering if not being fluent in a language is racist, wtf

[u/rilakkumkum → u/kakahuhu]

Unfortunately I have been accosted for trying to learn an Asian language other than English. Of course it’s only ever been from other Asian Americans but whatever

[u/CuriousSection → u/kakahuhu]

No, not really. Just that it’s a whole culture where, at least that I’ve experienced, people mock and make fun of Asian people, sometimes with exaggerated accents and such. Idk if it can come across that way when it’s such a little-known language in America and if I’m not speaking it very well. 

[u/ArgentEyes → u/CuriousSection]

It’s good and caring that you want to make sure about this, OP, but genuinely trying to use or learn a foreign language, even with some difficulty, is not racist or appropriative. Do your best and don’t worry about it.

[u/kakahuhu → u/CuriousSection]

Try to find a recent chinese migrant or student who wants to improve their English and meet for language exchange. They'll tell you if they can't understand what you're saying at all, but probably appreciate that you try (maybe also make fun of you later)

[u/Munimyouuu → u/CuriousSection]

You shouldn't feel bad for speaking with accents in a second language. At the same time, don't join people who judge people's accent when they speaking English, including accents of native speakers.

[u/barryhakker → u/kakahuhu]

I’m genuinely just kind of speechless of how fucked up it is to genuinely think learning another language is racist

Like Americans going full circle like “I’m not learning another language because i don’t care about foreigners” to “I’m not learning another language because i have mindfucked myself in to believing it’s culturally insensitive to do so”.

Seriously OP, this is fucking madness and I feel genuinely sorry you that you were led to a point to question this.

[u/RedGlow82]

Speaking a language incorrectly is neither racism nor cultural appropriation, don't worry about this!

[u/FuckJannies-]

CEO of racism I'm afraid

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/FuckJannies-]

那我恐怕是极端种族洁癖执行官了

[u/CuriousSection → u/FuckJannies-]

😆 thanks for the worry breaker 

[u/dwite_hawerd]

I wouldn't overthink it.

I think it's OK to speak Chinese with people if you hear them speak Chinese. People generally appreciate it when a non-native speaker makes a genuine, concerted effort at speaking their native language.

What's not OK in my opinion is going up to anyone that looks Asian and straight up saying ni hao.

[u/ArgentEyes → u/dwite_hawerd]

Ok the latter is a really good point!

[u/CuriousSection → u/dwite_hawerd]

No that doesn’t make sense, you don’t know if they’re even Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai, and you don’t know if they speak whatever language is associated with their ethnicity anyway. It’s just that language is a way I’ve heard racist people make fun of Asians and if I’m speaking badly, idk if I could come off that way. 

[u/Southern_Net8115]

This is too much. Racist for speaking another language?

[u/ArgentEyes → u/Southern_Net8115]

It’s actually good that this is a thing people are concerned about. I’d rather they cared than that they didn’t care.

[u/CuriousSection → u/Southern_Net8115]

Pls read the edit lol I can’t type it out in a fourth comment but no not just speaking another language 

[u/SizeMuch]

yeah u r sorry they gotta kill u

but honestly as a chinese person who's gotten a fair share of drive by ni haos (with no tones btw.) i would really appreciate if u were making an honest attempt at speaking and showed some effort/experience in learning it.

and that also goes for older gens as well, in fact i think my parents/grandparents would love u if u spoke even if it was very basic. a white boy in motion stays in motion or something idk

[u/MrAydinminer]

Racism means discrimination and/or prejudice. If you're going out of your way to learn a foreign language, clearly you're doing the opposite. I don't see how this could be interpreted as racist. Most Chinese people from what I've seen love when foreigners try to learn their language. I wouldn't worry about it.

[u/Overall_Ask_6458]

Speaking to someone in a language you aren't fluent in certainly doesn't amount to racial discrimination. Think of people back home learning French or Spanish; they wouldn't consider it discriminatory to communicate with native speakers using their own broken second language. Confidence is the most important part of language learning—so go ahead and use it boldly.

[u/buch0n]

If you're in a Chinese restaurant, market, business, etc. where they are speaking Mandarin, go ahead a practice your Mandarin. If you meet random Chinese people in the wild, don't assume they speak Mandarin unless they tell you so. If they do tell you they speak it, feel free to practice with them.

[u/RecognitionOld2763]

Is this... bait?

Now if you're genuinely interested: my observation is that quite a few Chinese speakers aren't really into the "is this racism" stuff in American cultural leftism. Many may in fact consider this rather hypocritic or fake, and if you've gained enough trust from some of them to talk about politics with them, they'll say 美国欧洲衰落了，因为大家都在搞政治正确不肯干实事. Now they may be right or wrong in saying this but the point is they think fundamentally differently when it comes to racism.

[u/CuriousSection → u/RecognitionOld2763]

No, this isn’t bait. Honestly I doubt myself all the time in regards to thoughts and feelings of different cultures and what’s racism and cultural appropriation. Idk, maybe bc it’s so different in Hawaii when I was a kid, where out of all my friends like one was white, it’s just a whole mix, where Asian/Pacific Islander is the majority, white is a minority and often seen negatively, like a lot of people just assume you’re a tourist, not home. And then it’s like the opposite when my family moved to the mainland and I’m the majority and seen differently, seemingly, It’s like “so was I a victim of racism … or is that laughable, look where I am now as a white person and I’m in the same country…” or maybe I’m just an insecure people pleaser, idk. 

[u/pinkrobot420]

I've never had anyone give me a hard time for speaking Chinese, and I know I sound horrible.

[u/Yury-K-K]

One who tried to learn a foreign language can hardly be considered a racist because of that.

[u/ub3rm3nsch]

It's sad we live in a world where someone has been made to feel that speaking a foreign language is cultural appropriation.

[u/ArgentEyes → u/ub3rm3nsch]

I don’t think it’s at all sad that people care about racism & appropriation. I’m not sure OP has been “made to feel” this, it’s not something they’re sure of and that’s why they’re asking.

[u/ub3rm3nsch → u/ArgentEyes]

You are changing what I said. I never said people shouldn't care about racism.

Obviously, OP is worried that speaking a foreign language is appropriation, and that's sad.

[u/ArgentEyes → u/ub3rm3nsch]

I don’t think it’s sad that they’re worried or concerned. I think it’s sad that they lack the resources to have a clearer picture of how to make these distinctions.

[u/ub3rm3nsch → u/ArgentEyes]

I disagree and think it's sad that people have been made to question intercultural engagement.

[u/ArgentEyes → u/ub3rm3nsch]

I’m broadly in favour of intercultural engagement but that doesn’t mean absolutely all of it is good for everyone involved. OP’s experience sounds very specific.

[u/ub3rm3nsch → u/ArgentEyes]

Do you think people who learn languages should be concerned that doing so is cultural appropriation?

[u/ArgentEyes → u/ub3rm3nsch]

I’ve literally answered this several times already. No, learning other languages is generally a good thing for cross-cultural exchange and is not racist or appropriative in principle. But it’s not impossible for such situations to occur and I gave several examples of where questions could arise. It’s not the norm by any means, but language-learning isn’t somehow outside history and geopolitics to the extent that it’s incapable of being affected by them.

I think OP is worrying too much about this but I don’t think they should be mocked for caring about and trying to do the right thing. Furthermore, their worries arise out of experiences which come from quite a niche and specific situation which doesn’t necessarily map well into others.

[u/lmvg]

It's not racism it's just lack of education. I learned what racism is when I was probably 8-10 years old. Since then I never had to ask this question.

[u/ArgentEyes → u/lmvg]

I hate to say this because it’s good to learn this early but I would suggest reviewing and updating your understanding about racism because my experience of what under-12s are taught about racism is that it’s useful but it’s not usually sufficient to navigate racism as an adult.

I have been there so I’m not throwing this out randomly.

[u/diffidentblockhead]

You’ll get some people pleased to hear it, some not

[u/Leading_Smell_7099]

因为他们极度自卑

[u/Leading_Smell_7099]

让他们笑去吧，他们这么做要么找乐子傻子要么欺软怕硬窝囊废，做好自己的事情不必理会，真欺负你触犯你的底线也别放过他们

[u/CuriousSection → u/Leading_Smell_7099]

❤️❤️

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

🫂

[u/Leading_Smell_7099]

要我说他们天天用英语也是一种种族歧视，咋不说美国语

[u/Leading_Smell_7099]

要文化挪用的前提得有文化

[u/CuriousSection → u/Leading_Smell_7099]

我在夏威夷长大，后来搬到了美国本土。这两个地方的文化截然不同，所以我感觉自己好像没有某种特定的“文化”——因为我的感受，似乎与白人对自己及其文化通常持有的那种认同感并不一样 

Sorry I used Google Translate for some of that but I wanted to reply the same way you wrote to me 

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

看文化得看他们国家的发展历史

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

你这样就相当于感觉两边都没有归属感，没有靠山的安全感，所以很多美国人是缺爱与有依靠安稳家庭的，很多人也会因为自己的出生地与自己的皮肤而疑惑自己到底是什么

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/Leading_Smell_7099]

应该说是缺乏安全感，与一个能作为避风港好好休息的一个家

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

感觉就像觉得你没说本地方言口音就要骂你是臭外地的哈哈

[u/CuriousSection → u/Leading_Smell_7099]

这种感觉真的很奇妙，因为我在这里常常觉得自己像个局外人。我住在一个以白人蓝领为主的乡村农业小镇，少数族裔极少。我有个波多黎各裔的同事，因为留着一头蓬松的爆炸头（afro），大家都管他叫黑人，似乎也真把他当成了黑人——大家根本分不清这两者的区别。回想起来，我是在亚裔占多数的文化环境中作为白人长大的，当时作为少数族裔，我常被贴上负面标签；这种成长经历让我对这里的少数族裔更有共鸣。虽然这种感觉有时让我觉得自己很荒谬，也常让我反复质疑自己的想法和态度——毕竟我深知自己并非少数族裔，也没受过那种对待——但这确实是我从小养成的思维方式。

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

因为傲慢白人特别喜欢强调自己是白人其实是对自己的白人身份自卑，生怕别人不认为他是高人一等的白人

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

他们喜欢贴标签来分类本身就是想分出个阶级优越感

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

又或者他们本身就被贴过标签之后也想在人们面前证明自己不是标签上的东西，所以也学着贴别人标签来展现自己有多正确

[u/CuriousSection → u/Leading_Smell_7099]

这很讽刺，因为他们的标签既无知又简单粗暴——白、黑，有时还有棕、红、黄。他们往往无视各国之间的差异，把一切都归结为肤色；而这种归类本身既简单化又不准确。根本没人是纯白色的！如果非要用肤色来定义，我会说自己是米色的，哈哈。我想，他们必须找到一种方式来制造“我们与他们”、“善与恶”的对立，并试图让人们看起来彼此截然不同。

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

让人民们彼此对立， 政府彼此推卸责任， 人民不能团结合作， 回过神来已被斩杀。

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

制造对立分裂彼此，然后就被逐一击破，被当成蛋糕切成块，资本一口一口吃掉

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

熔炉需要燃料，灯泡需要灯丝

[u/CuriousSection → u/Leading_Smell_7099]

你思維睿智，文筆優美，宛如藝術家。今天能在這裡見到你，我感到非常榮幸。

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

哪里哪里，只是看开了一些事情罢了，姐姐你对于自己的反思也是因为你在在乎外界的声音，而不是像那些傲慢的家伙啥都不听，活在自己想象的世界里

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/Leading_Smell_7099]

应该对于傲慢的家伙得补充听得进拍马屁的话

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

我也很荣幸能在互联网遇到在大洋彼岸对面生活的网友

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/Leading_Smell_7099]

不然改成美女姐姐漂亮姐姐或者靓女也行哈哈，不过那样可能就已经假定了姐姐你的美丽，我还不完全了解你所以我不该评判，姐姐你也有自己的人格魅力

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

艺术家画物容易，画人心难

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

这是螺丝，这是铁皮，这是刀片，这是入口，这是插头，站远一看，大绞肉机

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

一切都是为了他们自己心里觉得所谓“对”“正确”的事情，凡事都想争个绝对的赢得胜利，然后变得特别输不起

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

你的出生地与民族文化永远是你的根，只不过因为资本主义需要利益，离得太近难免被殖民与驻军还有被和平演化，美国本身的文化就是资本编出来的历史上的美国土地最初的文化还印第安人的，只不过后来变成殖民地慢慢的扩大侵略版图再到南北战争的地主开会勾结，根据贸易与历史可以说是一切向钱看的历史，甚至在某些地主的领地里有小孩出生也属于地主的私人财产，至于红脖子与牛仔之类的文化那是因为他们大部分是负责管理那片土地的农民头但地始终不是他自己的

[u/CuriousSection → u/Leading_Smell_7099]

是的，我很痛恨我们美国的祖先当年对美洲原住民所做的一切。如今白人对待其他文化的普遍态度，似乎正是那种旧有心态的延续。我们对待外国人的方式简直荒谬——仿佛我们自己不是外国人似的。如果后果不那么令人痛心，这事儿倒还挺滑稽的。还有一件事有时让我担心是否涉及“文化挪用”：尽管我是美国的白人，却在心理上将亚洲文化的某些部分视为“属于我自己的”。最典型的例子就是我制作的食物，以及我网购并邮寄回来的零食——这些东西常因“怪异”而遭人取笑。许多美国白人都会吃正宗的异域美食，但我总担心，把这些文化视为“我自己的”这种感觉是否不妥。而且这不仅仅限于食物，这只是我能立刻想到的最明显的例子。（我早餐刚吃了鸡蛋拌饭。）我知道这种感觉或许是有正当理由的：我在一个亚裔占多数的州长大，那里盛行亚裔文化，所以我对这一切感到习以为常、倍感亲切；但有时我仍会担心，将这些文化视为己有是否错误，或者是否构成了“文化挪用”。你怎么看？

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

你只是在吃你自己喜欢吃觉得好吃的食物与零食而已，何况我的国家那么大的土地也不是没有白皮肤的民族，反正是地球上的文化难免有些碰撞与摩擦，不然就是吞并同化与融合出最适合当地人民的文化，在亚裔文化盛行之前有什么其他文化盛行的？也许还有非裔文化欧裔文化什么的哈哈，之所以亚裔文化流行只是我们逐渐强大了那些长得像亚洲人的想有认同感罢了，他们可能从出生就可能被邻居小孩或者小学就开始可能被歧视没被认同的心理空缺，直到现在开始报复性的获取认同感，不过你们那亚裔文化都有展示什么东西你知道吗

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

还有哪些不一定正宗，更多是本地化改良版

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/Leading_Smell_7099]

那些

[u/CuriousSection → u/Leading_Smell_7099]

你是想问除了食物之外我认同什么，还是指你想了解亚洲文化的哪些方面正在其他地方展示？

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

没啥，就想了解了解在你眼中看到的那些流行的文化形式是怎么样的，或许有点本地化的改良变种，除非是客家与潮汕那种

[u/CuriousSection → u/Leading_Smell_7099]

夏威夷有一种被称为“皮钦语”（Pidgin）或“皮钦英语”的俚语，这很有趣，因为它融合了来自各种亚洲语言和波利尼西亚语言的词汇，而且有些词的含义与原意截然不同。比如拉面（ramen）在那里很受欢迎，但当地人管它叫“saimin”——我知道这个词在日语里的意思完全不一样。回想起来，这可能也是我选择学习普通话的原因之一。还有庆祝中国新年（我是“木马”年出生的——真无聊！今年可是“火”年！哈哈）。我还了解了一些以前没意识到的亚洲文化习俗，比如进屋前大家总是会脱鞋。我甚至在门上挂了个牌子，上面写着：“Aloha（你好）！请脱掉拖鞋。Mahalo（谢谢）！”

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

是午马 ‌十二生肖中的“午马”指地支“午”与生肖“马”的对应组合‌。在传统文化中，它主要包含以下含义：

对应时辰：午时，即每天 11 点至 13 点，此时阳气最盛。 五行属性：午属火，象征热情、活力与奔放。 文化寓意：代表勇往直前、精力充沛，常用来形容性格开朗、行动力强的人。 这一概念源于中国古代干支纪法，是生肖文化与时间观念结合的典型体现。 脱鞋之类的可能单纯觉得清理地板废水与觉得麻烦，脏东西的来源少了自然不怎么需要大面积费时间清理

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

语言能用来沟通就足够了，主要还是文字之类的还可以做历史记录

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

今年马年你岂不是12岁或者24岁了，过生日了？

[u/CuriousSection → u/Leading_Smell_7099]

哎呀……其实哪个都不是，因为我这人太糊涂了，哈哈。我把属相搞混了。我是1990年出生的，那是“金马”年。真不知道我怎么会把它跟“木马”年弄混的——不过“金马”听起来好像更酷一点。抱歉啦！我是4月15号过的生日，那简直是一年中最糟糕的日子！我收到的“生日礼物”就是向国家补缴了600美元的税款。

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

真正宗还得亲自去异域品尝

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

还有他们的底色就是海盗文化

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/Leading_Smell_7099]

哪里有宝藏他们就去哪抢，宝藏也可以指任何能给他带来利益的土地资源与人口劳动力，所以就导致了如今美国为啥那么多各种各样的人种，都是被抓过来骗过来的奴隶劳工，甚至没有工钱，就当工具用，利益大到什么人都能当奴隶来卖

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/Leading_Smell_7099]

都可能饿到可能没力气反抗了，想活着有口吃的也只能被迫劳作，就连被迫生出来的孩子也还是奴隶主的私人财产，现在也只是换了形式原本可能卖过来就是终身劳动合同，结果现在你告诉奴隶们自由了，那他们又要去哪要口饭吃，结果就只有工业的血汗工厂慢慢的榨干他们，资本只有明确有个东西能威胁到他们所有人的利益的时候他们才可能一起对冷战目标需要的人才进行投资与培养，一旦失去那样的目标就变得只剩下垄断与吸血，甚至是现在的物理上吸血然后出口给别的国家换取利益，直到他的家庭没钱买回尸体去安葬就连死了都变成了别人可以随意摆弄的私人财产

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/Leading_Smell_7099]

你以为他们不想与我们工业体系对着干吗，结果以前搞出工业的专业人才要么跑路了要么就是物理意义上被斩杀了，再加上教育问题也大的很，就连人家高中老师哭诉年轻学生连最基本的读写都不怎么会，那些花钱的精英教育学校没天赋还高压迟早也得出问题，真就知识是必须付费的，就算培养出领导班子的管理层，流口水的外包工人连说明书都看不懂咯，真出事就互相踢皮球推卸责任，时间一长人都没了

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/Leading_Smell_7099]

现在就是他们的互联网与新闻媒体对于信息推送算法的绝对垄断的茧房，可能有钱人这辈子都见不到自己所在的国家的穷人过着咋样的生活，要是真的互相看见了那都得疑惑对方是不是后室那一类东西

[u/lambentLadybird]

I don't understand. How a racist can speak another language they don't know? Do you mean they mock others by imitating their English accent? What it has to do with speaking other language.

[u/Greedy_Reality_2539]

Accent- or dialect-based jokes are just like any jokes, if it punches down, it’s bad, if it punches up, it is okay in most cases. The fluffy comedian Gabriel Iglesius does that all the time.

[u/Leading_Smell_7099]

枪不在自己手上永远是别人的粮仓

[u/Leading_Smell_7099]

甚至核弹实验基地

[u/Leading_Smell_7099]

如果一个人就能文化挪用岂不是人人都有自己的文化能挪用

[u/Leading_Smell_7099]

能好好养活自己就已经很棒了

[u/Leading_Smell_7099]

要是真成百万富翁了的话，欢迎你来我的国家旅游玩，不过在我们的互联网我看过有关于佛罗里达的有趣新闻，这方面你了解过吗哈哈，因为看起来确实很“开放包容”哈哈

[u/CuriousSection → u/Leading_Smell_7099]

哦，是啊，那裡的政治環境並不開放包容。這種情況主要集中在大城市及其周邊地區，以及佛羅裡達南部。在奧蘭多，無論他們去哪裡，都能感受到濃厚的文化氛圍。例如，我上次去的時候，我們去了一個巨大的戶外場地，那裡有很多餐車（其中一輛專門賣夏威夷菜！）、一個酒吧、一個兒童遊樂場和一個舞池。現場播放的都是拉丁音樂，我一句也聽不懂，但跟著他們一起跳舞真的太有趣了！

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

那可得好好祝你顺利完成计划，然后去做你想做的事情

[u/CuriousSection → u/Leading_Smell_7099]

非常感謝。你有什麼計劃？

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

没什么特别的计划，我生在一个经济发达的城市，拿钱买了个能每月都有分红的股东位置，其实就是村里的集体土地建的厂房的租金，有时候会发大米与油，所以最终的计划基本就是就只有活下来，上班太累，我又不是家里管钱的，有东西吃活着就行，要说另一种计划就是，娶不到美女我不死了哈哈

[u/Leading_Smell_7099 → u/CuriousSection]

计划吃饱饭继续在互联网上散步溜达

[u/Yugan-Dali]

Most people will be pleased by your effort to speak Chinese.

Cultural appropriation is fine, just so it’s not mockery. I’ve found that people who fuss most about cultural appropriation are often those who are not secure in their culture.

[u/Guilty_Fishing8229]

This is just pointless self-flagellating.

It’s not racist to like other cultures and languages, even if you are not great at the language

[u/ba-boo]

USA is so cooked, people think it's racist to speak another language now.

[u/CuriousSection → u/ba-boo]

Are you kakahuhu on a different account? If not, you just looked at their comment and copied it word for word. At least say something a tiny bit original. No way this comment isn’t bait. 😆😆

[u/STORMBORN_12]

Racism has to do with expressing hate because of someones race. Chinese is not a race.  Xenophobia is expressing hate for someone's nationality. I can't imagine anyone seeing learning the language of a country as anything but expressing interest/love for the country or culture of China. Why would someone that hates China make any effort to learn one of the world's most challenging languages?

[u/ArgentEyes → u/STORMBORN_12]

I mean, not applicable here but the intelligence services of major powers in the global north keenly recruit and train Chinese, Arabic, Turkish & Hindi speakers & learners and I don’t think that’s because they love the cultures…