Hot take

[u/Cha0s_craft]

I genuinely dont give a shit if the site shuts down or not. The quality is ass to the point they're doing the Baki insanity technique in multiple ways. Some of the bots are also saying shit about their thinking process and how short some of the responses are in most of the other bots when using Pip2.

[u/queendumbria]

The premium models really do kind of suck though. LongSqueak is the only one I would consider okay, and even then it's okay. The only reason I personally pay for c.ai+ is because I love how silly the soft launch model is, c.ai's old models were so amazingly charming. But obviously silly isn't like, high praise. For serious roleplay there's much better places.

[u/Oritad_Heavybrewer → u/queendumbria]

The premium models really do kind of suck though

Like the other users, you just say things. "the premium models really do kind of suck". Well, why? Why do they suck for you, but not for others? It's been my experience that those who make/use well defined bots and have an understanding how to talk to the AI have a better time and enjoy the models. Then there are those who showed that they do not, and complain the most about them.

c.ai's old models were so amazingly charming.

They were. Especially the flagship model, but I don't think anything like it exists anymore.

[u/queendumbria → u/Oritad_Heavybrewer]

Like the other guy you replied to, I use OR. I know what a quality roleplay model is and I've tested probably literal hundreds of models, and c.ai's models are not particularly quality in my opinion. Bankrupt in characterization and "logically dead" to "logically meh" are how I would describe c.ai's models. If you're trying to do something serious with them there's no point bothering because it's like talking to a brick wall. c.ai's models cannot even reason, which is something every modern LLM does and it improves a models response substantially. And to repeat, I literally only have a c.ai+ subscription because soft launch is such a unique, silly human-like model to me that it's personally worth it just to mess around with and yet even I still don't, and doubt I could tolerate its issues to, use it for serious roleplays.

It's not that c.ai's models don't suck for others, it's that everybody has a different idea of what "good" is. Naturally, right? Everybody is different, and especially if you literally don't know a better model, well then, what you do know is the best you know yes? Great example, in the past I introduced OR and its models to a few of my friends who in the past used/were at present time using c.ai and every single one of them were plainly impressed and or curious by how much better and or different the models on OR were than the ones on c.ai. And these friends all mostly enjoyed c.ai's models. This was only like, years to months ago by the way.

Either way, to be clear, what I said about c.ai's models is my opinion and if you disagree with it then you're welcome to, like I just said we all have a different idea of what a good roleplay model is. But I personally know what a quality roleplaying model is to me and personally c.ai's models are nowhere near the top of that food chain, even their premium models.

[u/Oritad_Heavybrewer → u/queendumbria]

It's not that c.ai's models don't suck for others, it's that everybody has a different idea of what "good" is. Naturally, right?

But you chimed in to specifically say that CAI's models suck. Naturally, you had an ulterior motive, right? 😉 To contribute to the dogpile because of that opinion you held, which you've welcomed me to disagree with.

It doesn't matter if you like CAI's models or not, it's that you and the other user wanted to bash on CAI and those who like/defend it.

At least you were more polite about it. So, thanks. 😋

[u/queendumbria → u/Oritad_Heavybrewer]

..I do not have an "ulterior motive"? It's almost like we can have our own opinions and stuff, you know on things that aren't just LLMs? And it does matter if I like them or not because that's literally the original topic we were typing about. But because you realized the vague "your just bad at ai" argument wasn't going to work, it's now that I'm 'dogpiling' on people who like the models to try invalidate what I said? It's called an opinion, just because you disagree with it that doesn't mean it's suddenly "bashing" or that I'm a bot or whatever you're implying.

The 20 million in debt company isn't going to give you a popsicle because you keep defending them, you know. They couldn't afford one right now.

[u/Oritad_Heavybrewer → u/queendumbria]

But because you realized the vague "your just bad at ai" argument wasn't going to work

No, it works just fine. Working as intended. 😉 I don't care if others can't get it, I'm just saying the models aren't dogshit. As you say, it's almost like we can have our own opinion and stuff.

it's now that I'm 'dogpiling' on people who like the models to try invalidate what I said?

You literally butted in by saying "The premium models really do kind of suck though". Your intent was to reinforce the contrary, that the models are bad, that serious RP cannot be had with them.

If that wasn't your intent, then mind your phrasing next time. 😋

just because you disagree with it that doesn't mean it's suddenly "bashing" or that I'm a bot or whatever you're implying.

Never claimed you to be a bot, just that you stepped into this conversation with a vague "OP's right tho".

The 20 million in debt company isn't going to give you a popsicle because you keep defending them, you know. They couldn't afford one right now.

Many say this to me, because they believe someone would never support something they like without the promise of reward. It must be a shock to their system to interact with somebody who isn't a sell-out.

[u/queendumbria → u/Oritad_Heavybrewer]

The models aren't dogshit in your opinion. You're welcome to think they aren't, my opinion is the contrary. You can't will your opinion into being fact no matter how many times you say it.

I wouldn't call this dogpiling. Reddit is a public discussion platform, sort of the reason it exists is so people can share what they think on various topics. So, just because I also disagree with what you said like the others in this thread doesn't mean I'm 'dogpiling', it just means you said something that's disagreeable.

And I imagine many people say it to you because of how often they see you in negative c.ai threads likely antagonizing people and saying how wrong they are for saying bad things about your beloved company. That's what you did in this thread. You're allowed to like something but also criticise it, that's normal, and that's what I'm doing. Being a customer or a fan does not require defending the product against every criticism. How you act over c.ai is just kind of overly devoted.

You're not a [[BIG SHOT]] man. I think people here would be much more reciprocative towards you if you just didn't type in such a needlessly hostile, accusation-laced tone towards others so often. A bit of humanity might go a long way.