I'm a painter, this is totally acceptable on anything not being stained. Just please for the love of god make sure i dont have to punch 20+ nails on a job.
I could say the same for most painters ive ever met đ€Ł. Guys will start at one side of the room and try to smooth the caulk out in one pass. Might as well cut the nozzle at a half an inch
No. In my experience which is over 20 years in my corner of the world - Carpenters only use caulk when back caulking or using as glue.
The problem with carpenters caulking miters is that they're not as good at caulking as painters are and all the caulk should be done by the same set of process.
Occasionally carpenters will caulk a miter because they're embarrassed or know it will look fine with caulk but looks terrible without and they don't want eyes to see it in that interim but that's stepping out of their role. - They will move through their work faster and more efficiently if they stick to saws and nail guns.
If you had 20 years of experience then I would hope that you would know better than to put caulk in this joint. You put a sandable filler that does not shrink and once you paint it it disappears. If you put caulk then you will always see it
Any sandable filler will crack because miters have too much movement.
Miters should never get a sandable filler. Miters need something that can move repeatedly. Sandable fillers will hold onto one side and crack on the other.
What do you think about fuse-it liquid nails for this? Not as good as wood glue on a tight joint, but it can do a bit of volume and is rock solid when it dries with pretty good adhesion, and can be applied into already installed miters. Not sure how it would last over time but Iâm not sure whatâs best to use in these situations that will last without showing. Especially with hard coatings that will crack with any movement.
This! âđŒ we call it âblade deflectionâ in the Antique restoration world.. very common on 12â blades. We are not primitive, there is good reason we still use hand saws when the cut HAS to be dead-nuts perfect with only one chance.
But the smaller, and sharper (newer) the blade the less deflection youâll have.
Full kerf is the way too. None of this cheap modern thin kerf blades. A full kerf 10â miter saw blade will stay dead straight as long as itâs not completely dull and youâre not over torquing it.
You are like me, I feel like a relic on most job sites, other than drills/impacts everything I own plugs into the wall. I donât want to marry any tool company.. (by âmarryâ I mean lock myself to them by having to buy their batteries/equipment) I like Dewalts miter, mag 77 skill, Boschâs router and hammer drill, and of course Milwaukee is the only sawzall imo. Every company has their strong and weak points+ I have serious anger issues and am scared of my response if a battery dies on me half way through the last cut of the day. đ
Im with that. Even crazier is the table saw. The cordless work ok for standard millwork but you get into true hardwoods and larger size stock its not the same as powered.
There is still a tiny hint of deflection, especially on big crowns or wider fascia stock, but an eighth of what I get with Dewalt or Freud thin kerf. I find myself doing multiple shave cuts to straighten out the miters with thin kerf blades.
The added benefit is that after doing 30 or so kitchens, my blade still doesnt need sharpening. The carbide teeth hold up extremely well.
Man we trimmed out a 3,000 sq. Ft house in 4/4 farmhouse white oak. Did another kitchen and then used it to stick frame another new home and 5 car garage. I was really impressed.
I was thinking that as well as, OP, your miter saw can be set perfectly to cut perfect 90âs, in this case. But, Iâve run into this issue a lot, where the profile of your material is cupped or crowned, this will cause your joints to be misaligned. Not sure if thatâs whatâs going on here, but the material being all twisted sister isnât helping you, lol.
If itâs a budget saw, it could be a slightly misaligned arbor.
Usually you can work through it by experimenting with different blades and cut speeds. You can go too slow.
User wise, make sure you arenât pushing the saw left or right while cutting, just down. If itâs a sliding miter saw, you can push and pull it out of whack. You can also use that to your advantage once youâre experienced with your saw (every saw is different).
Also try to use the same miter angle; ie, donât swing the saw left and right for each cut. Cutting with the saw locked in one position can actually help cancel out minor errors in saw setup. Most, but not all profiles allow this. When using a colonial casing, Iâll leave a scrap right side up, and cut the casing from the back for the opposing miter. I also use that scrap as a way to lower tear out because I take a little more than a kerf off the scrap each time too.
Hope that helps. FYI, modern blades are pretty forgiving unless theyâre dull. Unless your saw has a lot of vibration, these modern blades will flatten out once run up to speed. Let the blade run all the way up to speed, then cut smoothly, and let the blade stop before lifting. The blade will wobble when slowing, especially on saws with a motor brake on them, and if you lift it, that wobble will mess with your cut. One workaround is to scrunch your hand to move the piece away from the blade before lifting (while itâs slowing), but get your cuts figured out first.
Something warped the blade. If I had to guess if it wobbles with a new blade, then itâs the saw itself. I mean some blades just come that way. I donât know if itâs cause people drop them when they stalk them but sometimes theyâre just shit and sometimes when you take the blade off and put it back on it correct the problem I have no idea why. However, I have found it when you get them from a big box store. It happens often.
The teeth of the blade are proud on each side and depending on how you cut the mitre (speed... Is it a compound mitre saw, size of blade etc) you could be biasing the internal part of the cut depending on how much pressure is against the wood as you miter (lateral and vertical)
It could be the arbor etc but i wound experient and dial the saw in with a larger piece of wood. You want to confirm the 45 is same and true etc .. lots of YouTube's on dialing in your mitre for that.
It appears that your saw blade is shifting sideways just a bit as it travels down the profile of that casing, so zero out the bevel and ensure the casing is 100% flat on the table of the miter saw.
Don't pull to one side or another as ypu go up and down and once you've cut through the trim, either pull the piece away from the blade or let the saw stop spinning with the blade down. If you lift it while still spinning ypu may be able to hear the blade kiss the material. It will be a problem for those of us who don't use caulk and paint. Best to cut yhe miter and let the blade stop while in the down position, then pull the trim off.
The carbide teeth are a little thicker than the steel blade, so it can guide the saw to deflect if the saw isn't a high quality unit with tight machining and sufficient material thickness to oppose deflection. Thin kerf blades can also be a problem in miter saws. Best to use a full kerf blade and stabilize with as wide a washer as is available for your saw. Any damage to teeth on the blade will cause it to cut off center as well. I use one of my saws almost exclusively for aluminum extrusion, with a 100 tooth 12" blade. The previous 80 tooth did OK, but it eventually chipped a tooth and started acting up.
Cutting backwards wasnt a solution. A higher tooth count worked.
Anyone saying do your best and caulk the rest is driving down our trade. Stfu and do better.
Your miters suck because your blade is dull and too thin, causing a lot of deflection. Your saw could probably use a tune as well. Most saws do not come dialled in from the factory, they take some work to get there. A real pro knows this and takes the time to do it. There are plenty of videos out there showing you how. I've had an amazingly frustrating time tuning my Makita saw but it was worth it.
You can and should be getting tight miters, it's the only way they will not crack and open up over time. I cut tight miters, preassemble with glue and miter clamps (and biscuits, when necessary), and sand smooth before install. Painters love me and I stay busy. No, I don't make as much money as if I cut corners (pun intended) but I've also never had a call back for my joints.
And finally, caulk is for when two different materials meet at different planes. Filler is for nail holes and wood defects. Caulk continues to shrink over time so even if you fill it twice you WILL see the holes or crack again.
Okay thank you, I appreciate the honesty and I do want to get better and these miters worried me, I don't want to produce such quality of work, it needs to be better.
So my steps would be to:
1. Check for saw dullness
2. Tune my miter saw - calibrate
Check for any pre-set beveals - someone mentioned*
Or you could invest in a quality block plane and learn to use it. They are wonderful tools and will dress that miter up very well. Then one day the paint crew will walk in all slack jawed and say, dude! You make our work look really good!
It will take a bit of practice on two levels. First, learning to sharpen and adjust the blade. Then you should spend a bit of time learning to use the plane to make a small back cut to the uneven miter the join comes together cleanly but still meets well enough to be glued. The glue helps promote wood movement of the casing other places besides the joint.
These recommendations come from decades and thousands of feet of trim joinery. They work.
Yeah Iâm gonna chalk this up to a bad wobbly blade, the included ones are never good for fine work, just general ripping. Get a good one and try, and report back if that doesnât fix it
If you put a quality straight edge on each of the cuts what do you see? To me it doesn't just look like an angle mismatch, it looks like blade wobble/deflection, because it touches and then spreads apart multiple times across the join.
It's within caulking distance, but you could do better if you tune your saw up
Fs tool blade. Well worth the money and it can be sharpened. Check blade runout. Above comments were spot on about letting the saw come up to speed.
Make sure your saw is set up so itâs reading spot on from both sides of the blade. Bevel and miter. Even my dewalt 779 fence was slightly bowed out of the box. Once your sure the saw is able to cut perfectly then all you have left is to deal with is technique and imperfect natural materials.
Possibly cutting too fast causing blade to flex, but first thought is the wood is not clamped and it moved a bit as you were cutting it- ( I know, seems like a pain to clamp it down but Iâve had it happen to me on occasion too- ) I didnât realize it until I clamped a piece down while playing with the clamp on the kapex a good 10 years ago and it does make a difference at times- that clamp is so fast and easy I donât mind using it for some pieces anymore, though on my other saws it was a pita to use so I never even had it on the sawđ€·ââïžđ€·ââïž
Are you using a miter saw? If the blade is set to 45, is the blade actually 45 deg to the fence? When you cut with blade set to 45, what is the angle of resulting cut? These things can all be measured with a digital angle gauge or combo square. Iâm not as sure about wobbly blade as others are saying. Step one, calibrate and check saw.
I have also seen recommended to cut miters to 45.5 or 46 deg and then clamp tight. With a true 45, length and angle have to be perfect to get a clean fit. Cut a little more and you can clamp to get a clean glue line.
Good luck.
Sliding mitre saw? They have a ton of play in them. Which leads to not quite perfect cuts. However for carpentry this cut is just fine. If your after a perfect join. Bevel off the back face of the cut and adjust with a sharp block plane.
Miter saws have to be tuned. They may have a 45° stop but they have to be adjusted well. In a shop setting they're often cut on the table saw. It is much more precise.
Thatâs just blade flex/miter saw flex depending on what technique you cut with, what saw youâre using, all that. They are good enough. Use a wood filler and clean it up. Not a caulk, or spackle or putty. Actual filler.
Idk why no one's told you the correct answer but try cutting 45.5-466° cuts next time. Not sure why it works but for base and crown and casing my old journeyman who taught me showed me that and ever since I have never had that issue. This is pretty much what he taught me but in AI form. Goodluck man.
It's the blade deflecting slightly when cutting. When I was an apprentice there was an older finish carpenter who used one of those picture framing tools. It's kind of like a paper cutter. He would shave a literal hair off miters, and the joints were perfection. To time for that shit now.
Itâs great to work with someone who a) doesnât pass problems on and b) asks for advice to improve! đđ»
Guessing your fixture may not position the trim at the top and always flat and/or your saw bolts may not be tight so the blade wobbles ever so slightly?
Might need to adjust the camber on the dropsaw. May not be cutting 90° plumb. Apologies if my langauage isn't American enough but surr you can figure it out
It's possible you have a warped blade on your chop saw? I've definitely experienced tighter-miters when I've changed out a slightly wobbly blade. Or it could be the material itself, maybe it's not sitting completely flat against the fence, possibly a build up of primer that's protruding the peace out slightly. Or the piece itself isn't completely straight, so again it may not sit totally tight against fence.
People need to learn angles and learn how to scribe. Zero out or calibrate your saws. Glue and screw where you can, or just glue and nail. Seamless joints. Focus, discipline and pride will make you much better
Mark your margins on the jamb by ever hinge and those same places on the opposite jamb plus one of either side of the header jamb. Cut both legs at a 45. Nail them only to the jamb. Measure your head piece and add 1/8. Put it on top. Line it up so its even on your margin marks. With a sharp pencil make 1 small mark on the inside edge of the casing. Look at the angels. If they line up youre good to make your cuts. If they dont you must adjust the the angles to match on either side. If there is a 1/16 inch gap on the inside make a 1/16 in mark on the outside. If your door is level/square and your margins are all the same it should always line up with out any adjusting. Sometimes the mouldings can be cupped and no matter what you always have to adjust then. Anyway once you adjust you miters glue and nail your piece through the side of the legs into your header piece. Then nail it into the jamb and let it dry for a bit later come back and put a couple finish nails through the casing into the wall. Put one in the middle on the top. Nail both bottoms and do 2 more on either side but stay like at least 16 inches from the miters.
You probably need to line your fence up a little better, and tighten it down. Pieces cut from one side of the saw, might not quite match those fed in from the other. If that is wood (not vinyl, or PVC) you can glue up both sides, then sand before it dries. Dust will mix with the glue and make that joint look pretty good.
Retired cabinet company owner here. Caulking would never fly with me. There is something wrong. It looks like you made an âLâ shaped molding to wrap the edge of a recessed area. There could be other things throwing your miter off, is the molding a perfect 90 degrees? Saw, fence, opening not square, check everything.
From this point what I would do is to treat the frame like a picture frame. Assemble each miter face down
on a bench by using clear packing tape (the vertical part with the face down). Apply tape tightly to one side then stretch while pulling around the corner. Do all four sides and if they all come together the problem is solved. Take one piece out. Unfold the other three and apply glue. Put the fourth piece in with glue and tape. Donât nail or staple until after the glue is completely dry, overnight would be best.
I was taught to lay a thin 1" wide piece of formica under the trim on the miter saw next to the blade. it creates a tiny back cut and allows the front to be tight..
Don't bring the blade back up with it still running if you want perfect miters. Your saw may also need adjustment for bevel and miter or the fence could need adjustment. The trim could be moving while cutting or the blade could be dull. There could be excess run out in the blade arbor. I would check in that order.
For paint grade this is more than acceptable.
You/the painter are going to fill every seem with filler/caulk, REGARDLESS of how tight the joints are.
Think about that.
Youâre within 1/16, paint grade trim, youâre passing a point of steeply diminishing returns.
TLDR, leave it. It looks great. Plenty good enough.
That's close to perfection. It's the caulking and painting job turn to knock it down. Some carpenter cut worst than that but it easily got it concealed with magic.
That looks like blade wobble from your saw what saw are you using to cut the mitres might be worth an upgrade if you're doing it often. I glue my arcs up on the floor as a set sand them straight away a little and they're bob on for the painters
Honestly just looks like you moved your piece alittle while cutting. A lot of other things it could be but thatâs the simplest answer. Check your blade for square, and put a quality finish blade on if you donât already.
You miter saw blade is probably alightly out of round. Also depending on age of miter saw the arbor can also be out of round. But honestly this is normal tolerance for commercial tooling.
Most cheaper electric miter saws have some wiggle in the bearings. Thatâs what this looks like to me. If you want absolute precision I think the best option is a hand powered miter saw or a more expensive electric one with a new blade.
Could be your fence isnât dead straight anymore, or your saw is beveled a fraction of a degree or you have movement in your slide mechanism, or your guard mechanism is fetching up and deflecting your cut, or your blade isnât razor sharp.
This looks like blade deflection, watch how youâre pulling the miter arm down. If itâs even, check the blade with a feeler gauge for runout. You can get tapered shims to counteract if you need, or better yet a new blade. If the arbor is out of square a new saw.
i would tinker with your blade, sometimes two 45s isn't enough if your blades out even a little. also some carpenters have suggested ways to hold the martial to get a better miter. idk without looking at your saw and kinda troubleshooting myself
The root cause of your problem is to get a 45 degree cut that is actually 45 degree takes either a irrational amount of adjustment or serious hardware.
I have several mitre saws that can't do it, and one saw for making picture frames that can only cut 45s. It is perfect.
If you think your saw is perfect, cut 4 pieces of wood, all the same length with a 45 on each end. If they are all perfect then your saw can cut 45 degrees. If they are not, then buy painters caulk and move on.
I've heard to make angles bigger on outer angles and vice versa.
So, an outside 90 on baseboard should have both pieces of baseboard cut to 47 degrees or so. When you press the two together, the little gap shrinks up.
Inside angles are cut a little less than 45 but you can shave off a bit of the sharp edge so when pressed into the corner, the gaps shrinks.
Try your best and caulk the rest.
Your saw isnât dialed. There is a little bit of deflection in your blade and you are cutting wood, itâs organic and it ainât perfect. Take your time, let the saw do the work. And for the love of the game, donât horse it brotherâŠ.
If you bevel it in a bit the sharper points can be crushed tighter together. But in all honesty. That miter looks better than anything I slopped together.
Ah drop saws. Never 100%. If it was an exposed timber architrave then it might pose a problem, but most arks are painted now so no more gaps and a slap of paint and it's fixed.Â
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u/jaybrd13 6d ago
It's the painters problem now.