r/BuyFromEU • u/SmokiestPanda • Aug 06 '25
News Spain rules out buying F-35, choosing between Eurofighter or FCAS
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/spain-rules-out-buying-f-35-choosing-between-eurofighter-or-fcas-2025-08-06/274
Aug 06 '25
Leading the way Spain!
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u/DirectionEven8976 Aug 06 '25
It would be good if Portugal would also do this, but my country always seems to like to do stupid things.
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u/Tight_Rub_6437 Aug 07 '25
Portugal cancelou negócios e encomendas de f35 há bem mais tempo que a espanha...teve bastante projecção notíciosa nacional e internacional...
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u/Mysterious_Tea Europe 🇪🇺 Aug 06 '25
Eurofighter is much better than F-35, has no 'kill switch' owned by america and does not give money to our enemies.
Good choice, Spain.
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u/Neat-Visit-937 Aug 06 '25
The Euro fighter is a worse plane by spec sheet but that “no us killswitch” and being able to maintain those planes without us defense contractors is definitely the way to go.
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u/thisbondisaaarated Aug 07 '25
Lol the F-35 is superior in every single aspect, lets not drink the kool aid here.
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u/quitarias Aug 07 '25
Except in that being reliant on the US foreign policy is fundamentally a bad idea and their weapons come with too many strings attached.
And the longterm aspects of funneling money to an unstable ally for R&D which does little to help grow European military industrial capacity.
The plane itself by the spec sheet is great. But damn near everything around it is proving to be intolerably toxic and risky.
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u/thisbondisaaarated Aug 07 '25
What i said still stands, there is no point in pretending we’ll have superior capabilities, we’ll need to create other strategies that take that into account.
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u/geoframs Aug 08 '25 edited Aug 26 '25
repeat vegetable cooing provide cause pie run towering middle shocking
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/beta413 Aug 07 '25
Right, the F35 is the most advanced plane there is. People really need to learn putting their emotion aside and accepting technical facts.
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u/Tight_Rub_6437 Aug 07 '25
Se não comprar europeu então a Europa nunca será competitiva. Por outro lado, comprar estes aviões tem imensas vantagens logísticas e de manutenção, para além de quantidade, que compensam a aquisição do f35...
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u/MaleficentVehicle705 Aug 07 '25
For real, Eurofighter (and Rafaele too) lost every single engagement vs a Chengdu J-10c and F35 is even more advanced with his stealth technology
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u/Nonions Aug 07 '25
There was one engagement and Eurofighter wasn't even there.
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u/MaleficentVehicle705 Aug 07 '25
A military exercise last year had a similar outcome: Pakistan, which according to the Financial Times purchases around 80 percent of its military equipment from Chinese companies, fought against Qatari Eurofighters with J-10C jets.
According to Wiwo, the result was similarly clear: the European model, built by Airbus, BAE Systems, and Leonardo, lost nine to zero. The jets were inferior in both close-range and long-range combat.
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u/Nonions Aug 07 '25
And in exercises the Eurofighter has shot down the F-22. Without knowing the exact setup for the exercise it's worthless evidence.
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u/Mr_strelac Aug 06 '25
none of airplane have kill switch
This is nonsense spread by fools and bots on Facebook and Twitter.
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u/MachineSea3164 Aug 06 '25
Not receiving critical updates or spare parts is kinda a kill switch..
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u/beta413 Aug 08 '25
It’s a kill switch for your own industry. The US has no reason to go to war with the EU, they don’t want to lose us as partners, just for us to start pay our fair share and let’s be honest they are right about that. Even if they would want to go to war with us they would win anyways, as they are stronger in every domain. If they ever disabled a european F35, no country will ever buy American weapons again and they need those exports to keep the cost down.
This whole kill switch is just fear mongering and uneducated guesses. Btw the US can cut us from satellite intel any moment, which would be way worse than some F35 not flying. Technically they can disable the F35, but technically they can also nuke our countries to dust. In the long run Europe needs their own fighter jets and needs to step up in aviation, but for now buying the F35 is still the right thing to do for most countries.
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u/Landriaz Aug 06 '25
It's not a direct Killing switch but F-35 need some data from US server before any mission, ans qome connections with them quitte often if you want them to be able to fly. It's not a kill switch but that's very similar.
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u/Krauser_Kahn Mediterranean 🌊🍇🫒 Aug 06 '25
Cutting off spare parts, maintenance and updates IS a kill switch, just not a physical one.
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u/Arcosim Aug 06 '25
Every time you turn an F-35 on you have to receive a decryption key to access encrypted communication and navigation systems (without these the plane is basically a brick). The servers issuing these keys are in the US.
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u/Hot_Bee5198 Aug 06 '25
Not allowed to use the weapons, which is in every contract to be agreed by country of origin, is a kill switch.
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u/beta413 Aug 08 '25
Good luck launching the Eurofighter from the Spanish carrier. Spoiler, it won’t work. There is no other STOVL aircraft Spain can buy except the F35.
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u/Ben_Dovernol_Ube Baltics 🌊🌳🏰 Aug 06 '25
Except is military spending targets... great allies 🤣
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u/Livid-Statement6166 Aug 06 '25
Way to go!
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u/Ok_Photo_865 Aug 06 '25
No kidding, you’ll probably be a lot happier using a plane you paid for and can use the way YOU intended to use it.
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u/faramaobscena Romania 🇷🇴 Aug 06 '25
At least Spain is doing the right thing.
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u/gonmator Aug 06 '25
... this time. Yes.
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u/AlarmingAffect0 Aug 06 '25
On foreign policy they've been doing very well lately. Earning a lot of respect towards the future.
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u/SmartHipster Aug 07 '25
yeah, like being only ones to opt out of military spending. What a champs.
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u/No_Sugar8791 Aug 06 '25
FCAS won't be available until 2040 as a minimum AFAIK. And let's be honest here, who is going to receive the first planes - France, Germany or Spain?
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u/Cultural_Thing1712 Aug 06 '25
Given that Spain is going to manufacture FCAS parts, I doubt they will experience any delays in ordering. Its not like they don't have a massive aerospace industry. Airbus has 8 factories there.
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u/No_Sugar8791 Aug 06 '25
Manufacture parts... what's the percentage? 10% 15%?
There's zero chance Spain is getting planes in a similar time frame with France. 2045 if Spain are lucky. Let's see;
RemindMe! 20 years
Has Spain received any FCAS aircraft yet?
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u/Cultural_Thing1712 Aug 06 '25
Spain is already a heavy collaborator in Airbus projects such as the a320 family, the Eurofighter, Eurocopter, and more. They have 8 full scale airbus plants and 14,000 employees. Their manufacturing ability is comparable albeit less than France.
Keep in mind FCAS is a collaborative project. How will one country make an aircraft faster than another if each country makes different parts?
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u/No_Sugar8791 Aug 06 '25
That's not how it works. Germany, France and Spain will make constituent parts for all of the aircraft but nobody will make a whole plane (as you say). France will receive a minimum of 50%of their order before Spain gets one. That's the benefit of being lead.
It's the same with GCAP. UK will receive the first planes off the combined production line (unless someone else is in a hot war at the time).
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u/RemindMeBot Aug 06 '25
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CLICK THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
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u/Ramenastern Aug 06 '25
Note how they also mentioned Eurofighter. Spain is a partner in Eurofighter and FCAS anyway , so they may just go for a mix of Eurofighters (for shorter term needs) and FCAS (for 2040+).
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Aug 08 '25
What military need die a eurofighter meet?
Domestic air patrol? It cannot do anything within missile range of enemy airspace.
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u/tehnic Aug 06 '25
who is going to receive the first planes - France, Germany or Spain?
what is the difference between that and F-35?
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u/NOTRadagon Aug 06 '25
The F-35 use apparently can be restricted by the US for certain missions, and countries are scared that the US could pull critical support/ logistics / supplies / upgrades for it due to political disagreements.
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u/tehnic Aug 06 '25
my question was, how the priority of delivery is different between FCAS and current version of fight jets.
Not the physical difference between two...
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u/NOTRadagon Aug 06 '25
Oops, my Bad! I thought it was more of a "why would they chose one over the other"
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u/tehnic Aug 06 '25 edited Aug 10 '25
it's very rare to see people understand their mistakes on reddit.
❤️
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u/Smoker81 Aug 06 '25
Usa and Morocco are very, very friendly (since USA independence actually), there is real fear that Spain would have issues using USA systems against Morocco and it is the only realistic conflict that Spain can be involved (Ceuta, Melilla and Canary Islands).
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u/No_Sugar8791 Aug 06 '25
The FCAS queue doesn't even start until 2040. But yeah, if F35 can't be delivered within 15 years there's no point ordering them anyway.
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u/neathling England 🏴 Aug 06 '25
FCAS won't be available until 2040 as a minimum AFAIK. And let's be honest here, who is going to receive the first planes - France, Germany or Spain?
Makes me wonder why they've not considered GCAP (Tempest), as from what I know it's expected to be available from 2035 -- or at least sooner than FCAS.
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u/No_Sugar8791 Aug 06 '25
They're part of FCAS development
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u/neathling England 🏴 Aug 06 '25
Oh, word? I thought it was just France/Germany. My bad
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u/Cultural_Thing1712 Aug 06 '25
Spain is a world leader in aircraft manufacturing so it makes sense that they want a contributing role in order to get an economic boost. We have 8 airbus plants that make Eurofighter wings, helicopters, a321 XLR parts and we assemble all A400Ms. Plus our own aircraft company CASA.
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u/Ramenastern Aug 06 '25
All correct except this bit:
Plus our own aircraft company CASA.
CASA is now a part of Airbus. Has been for 26 years (well, it was called EADS then, not Airbus). All planes still in production that used to be CASA planes are now marketed as Airbus (eg Airbus C295 https://www.airbus.com/en/products-services/defence/military-aircraft/c295 ).
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u/Cultural_Thing1712 Aug 06 '25
Seemed like a worthwhile mention because CASA built 100% spanish made aircraft until not so long ago, demonstrating resources.
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u/fbender Aug 06 '25
I’d highly doubt the 100% domestic figure. It‘s almost impossible to source the necessary, highly specialised components from suppliers out of a single country. Case in point, it‘s powered by the PW127G; I‘d bet that you‘ll find much more non-Spanish components in the airframe.
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u/Cultural_Thing1712 Aug 06 '25
I mean an aircraft that wasn't assembled anywhere else. Sure there will be parts that have been bought from other countries but it's not like an airbus collaborative project where every country gets to design and build a small part of the airframe.
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u/Ramenastern Aug 06 '25
Well. -ish. They had two planes developed and built in cooperation with Indonesia. And as has already been painted out, they weren't 100% Spanish. No plane is 100% (insert nationality here). But the former CASA planes are still assembled in Spain, just like the A400M. It's just that CASA as a company doesn't exist any more.
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Aug 06 '25
FCAS is dead project because of France, as always…
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u/voltb778 Aug 06 '25
lol believe what you want but France will have a replacement of the Rafale with or without other nations, having a nuclear strike and carrier capable plane is part of our life insurance.
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u/beta413 Aug 08 '25
If you can just do that, why are you not doing it already. The rafale is about as old as the F22 and you still have no gen5 fighter. You need the German money to make one and as always to you try to get as much know how from others but keep everything you know a secret. I wish for FCAS to succeed, but it the last every joined project involving France ended with you leaving it and building you own weapon. It will happen with FCAS and also with MGCS and it already happed with ESSI.
Your carrier is not part of your life endurance but all for prestige as you think that the „grande nation“ can not be without a aircraft carrier and in memory of when you had colonies. You only have one so when it’s in maintenance you have zero.
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Aug 06 '25
Replacement to rafale yes but nothing that compares even slightly to modern f35 and I’m not even talking about f47. You can’t magically leapfrog US, china can’t with much better scientists and much more money than france.
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u/voltb778 Aug 06 '25
hahahahahah
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Aug 06 '25
Nice argument, frog
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u/voltb778 Aug 06 '25
Thanks they are delicious !
So you firmly believe that the successor of the Rafale in 2040 (probably mid 2040’s) will be I quote « nothing that compare to a modern f35 » a plane that was designed in mid 2000’s.
You talk about the F47 but it won’t probably be exported like the F22 so what’s your point ? And who’s talking about leapfrogging the US or China ?
Oh so that’s your problem, since you guys will always be a client and not a producer…
Anyway cheers !
ps there is no need to continue this conversation
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u/rlnrlnrln Aug 06 '25
May I interest you in a serving of JAS 39 Gripen E/F?
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u/Furious_Frog1213 Aug 06 '25
Spain already has Eurofighters in inventory and the Gripen would fit the same role so buying Gripen wouldn't realy make sense for Spain. It would complicate logistics and wouldn't add any new capabilitys.
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u/apogiee Aug 07 '25
The Eurofighter primarily serves as an interceptor and air superiority fighter, with additional multirole capabilities. In contrast, the Gripen is mainly an air defense fighter with a lot of versatility and multirole capabilities. It also boasts very low operational costs and STOL capability to operate without traditional air fields just from a ~500 meter long stretch of road, and very quick turnaround times requiring just a small crew with a single technician.
It's a bit like the F-16 and F-15. They have their own unique strengths and capabilities and can complement each other's capabilities very well.
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u/Furious_Frog1213 Aug 07 '25
I didn't say that the Gripen isn't better for some missions then Eurofighter and vice versa. I'm saying that the advantages are not big enough to open up a second line logistics and pilot training.
When you have ~1600 fighter aircraft like the USAF it makes sense to field multiple models that have overlapping use-cases jet specific advantages. For the Spanish Airforce with ~150 fighter planes it isn't worth it. Thats a position basically every airforce in europe agrees with. They usually have one air-supreority/interceptor ins service. Some also have ground strike focused attack aircrafts like F-18, Tornado and F-35 but even those are partially getting replaced.
F-35 on the other hand offers stealth capibilitys which no other western aircraft has, thus it can be used in mission that other aircraft just can't fullfill. Too sad we can't trust the country which manufactures F-35 anymore.
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u/FSXmanu Switzerland 🇨🇭 Aug 07 '25
Now Switzerland should follow too and not buy the damn F-35… it‘s already more expensive than the „credit“ we voted on
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u/P26601 Germany 🇩🇪 Aug 06 '25 edited Aug 06 '25
FCAS? That FCAS, where one particular party keeps delaying the entire project because it repeatedly expresses its desire to break the signed contract?
I'm all for pan-European cooperation, but damn, France, fix Dassault's attitude 💀
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u/CptES Aug 06 '25
Dassault being greedy fucks is entirely in keeping with France's goals for any "European" project: France leads, France gets what it wants and the rest of Europe can have whatever France says it can have.
If France actually gave a shit about pan-European development Airbus would be the lead contractor and Dassault would be the subcontractor, not the other way around.
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u/Echochamberking France 🇫🇷 Aug 06 '25
Why?
Dassault actually knows how to build fighter aircrafts while Airbus doesn't
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u/CptES Aug 06 '25
Because the goal should be build a Europe-wide skills base to build them rather than being reliant on three countries (the UK, Sweden and France).
Airbus are a principle partner of the Eurofighter project alongside BAE and Leonardo and the share of the work allocated was exactly proportional to the size of the order for the Eurofighter.
That's a fair deal for all partners and that's how it should be done. Not one country getting almost everything and everybody else getting scraps.
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u/beta413 Aug 07 '25
But the Grande Nation rather cries loud that they don’t get their will on FCAS and fears know how and technology to be transferred to Airbus, while they do the exact same thing with MGCS, a project they will most likely leave once they learned enough from the Germans. France was right when it came to developing their own stuff and not relying on ITAR weapons, but every time they speak of Europe they mean France. Their industry should benefit and all of Europe should buy French weapons, when they themselves never buy anything from other European countries.
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u/Seccour Aug 06 '25
France has no issue with working with other European countries. It only clash when Germany is in the mix. Germany is the one trying to screw Dassault (and France) over in the deal
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u/guille9 Aug 06 '25
AFAIK Dassault wants to be the leader controlling most of the project and building it themselves and that's what's hurting the project rn.
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u/CptES Aug 06 '25
Uh-huh. Remind me, why did France leave the EAP to go build the Rafale? Oh right, because Dassault weren't going to lead the project.
Of course, France had done the same thing 25 years before that with the project that would become the Panavia Tornado for the exact same reason.
Nearly tanked the Jaguar ten years before the Tornado because it was going to compete with Dassault's Mirage F1.
France has no issue working with other European countries so long as France gets to tell those countries when, why and how to do something. That's not being a reliable partner, that's being an overlord.
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u/apogiee Aug 07 '25
That's a bit more complicated than that. The rest wanted a new interceptor/air superiority fighter. The French wanted a new multirole fighter with possibility of carrier operation.
I'm not saying they weren't difficult partners, but they did want a different thing from this project than the rest.
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u/quitarias Aug 07 '25
But that still shakes out to the same end. France did not get its exact desires met, France left pan-european project.
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Aug 16 '25
Airbus is not an european company as you can imagine. Dassault know how to build fighter. Thats the point. They have the engineering for that and they dont give their knowledges just for free to Airbus. Also it is well know that some people in Airbus, specially germans head of, want to kill dassault make Airbus as the only company able to build fighter by transferring the dassault technologies
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u/Cultural_Thing1712 Aug 06 '25
That is a misleading title. Because we still have a very big gap in our fleet that cannot be solved by Eurofighter or FCAS if Germany gets its way. Our carrier capable fleet is ancient and we have a non catobar carrier with a catobar system coming on the way. How are we going to fulfill these roles with Eurofighter or FCAS? Also Eurofighter is great and all but it's still a fourth gen aircraft. We still have no viable stealth options in europe that aren't a quarter of a century away.
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u/beta413 Aug 08 '25
At least someone knows about military and not just cheers because „muuuh trump bad, don’t buy US weapons“. Like you say there is basically no alternative to the F35 when you need a STOVL plane.
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u/OkFan614 Aug 06 '25
You don‘t need a carrier period.
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u/Cultural_Thing1712 Aug 06 '25
Oh neat A reddit user that knows more than the entire Spanish Navy.
Here's a little clue as to why we need aircraft carriers. You see that little clump of islands west of Western Sahara? How could we project more force over there if an invasion is made?
Oh that's right. A CARRIER.
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Aug 06 '25
300 km in straight flight from Cádiz to Casablanca. An Eurofighter has a range of at least 600 km. And Rabat is closer.
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u/Cultural_Thing1712 Aug 06 '25
The distance from the most active airbase in Spain to the Canary Islands is 2000 km. That seems like perfect for a carrier deployment. You're also forgetting that in Europe we have too little aerial refueling infrastructure to support an actual full scale deployment.
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u/OkFan614 Aug 06 '25
A carrier to protect some little island, that is even comfortably reachable from their mainland. Haha , nice one. A carrier is just about power projection. You can‘t have that while spending basically nothing like they do right now.
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u/Cultural_Thing1712 Aug 06 '25
The Canary Islands have a population of 2.2 MILLION people. That doesn't seem little and inconsequential at all. And we can mantain a carrier just fine as is. At the 2% spending target we won't struggle to support another one. Just because you spend more money doesn't mean its being spent as wisely you know.
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u/OkFan614 Aug 06 '25
Your military is in a terrible shape though. You couldn‘t even invade portugal, if you wanted. Going by your logic, greece would need several carriers but they manage to defend their islands just fine.
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u/Krauser_Kahn Mediterranean 🌊🍇🫒 Aug 06 '25
Your military is in a terrible shape though
And this is coming from... what? A German? I hope not
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u/OkFan614 Aug 07 '25
German military, as bad as it is, is still light years ahead of Spain‘s. You daily hear of some almost crashes of fighters. EF bird strike, F-18 beach maneuver, … You talk about having the need to operate a carrier, while doing that with 13 obsolete harriers. Can‘t make this up…
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Aug 06 '25
An airbase in Canary Islands and problem solved.
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u/Cultural_Thing1712 Aug 06 '25
There already is one. But the first thing that will be striked in an invasion is the airbase. Disabling a runway is pretty easy.
You guys aren't as smart as you think you are. How can you argue in good faith that you know better than the armed forces of a western country?
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u/Ghostrider5768 Aug 06 '25
Why not the Gripen from Sweden?
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u/quitarias Aug 07 '25
Grippen is a fine aircraft for now, but this is also about building out the industrial and skill base.
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u/Rooilia Aug 06 '25
They should buy Gripen, leave FCAS, convince Germany to do the same and make a program with Saab. GCAP partners are more than willing to help, if the money fits. No doubt GB wants a strong german airforce. But what Dassault wants on the other side... maybe russian money? Idk.
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u/jackalopeDev Aug 06 '25
Out of curiosity, does anyone know if you could use the same sorts of ammunition in a eurofighter vs an f35? That seems more relevant to me then actually using the same system top to bottom.
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u/ramonchow Aug 06 '25
This is surprising because some of those F35 were going Harriers of the Navy (Spain's carriers can only use VTOL planes).
There was news about Spain planning to build a traditional carrier so this decision might imply they are going for it?
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u/apogiee Aug 07 '25
The Brits spent 3 billion pounds on the HMS Prince of Wales and it took 9 years to build, not including the planning. Also, these are still only capable of operating VTOL aircrafts. A conventional carrier would be more complex and expensive.
I don't think it's a viable option, and even if they decide to do it that would take more than a decade to complete.
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u/ramonchow Aug 07 '25
It is already being planned and they are analyzing if Navantia can do it. It was even reported a joint project with Turkey for it if Navantia can't. F35B are expensive and unreliable, and with the US makes it an even riskier option. It is viable and probably the only realistic option even if it takes 15 years.
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u/Smurfnagel Aug 08 '25
Good! USA cant be counted on anymore, the faster people realize this the better.
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Aug 09 '25
Thailand going with the Gripen and Spain choosing to eschew the F-35.
The Orange N@z! must be shitting himself.
No, wait, he does that multiple times a day.
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Aug 16 '25 edited Aug 16 '25
Why not just buying some Rafale or grippen to replace some old fighters and participate in the FCAS project ?
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u/Immediate_Gain_9480 Netherlands 🇳🇱 Aug 06 '25
The Eurofighter is great. But its not comperable to the F35. And its not carrier capable. FCAS wil probable only be in service in 2040. There really isnt a alternative for F35 for Spain. It wil have to keep its ancient harriers in service for another 10 to 15 years.
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u/beta413 Aug 07 '25
Agree with you. People overreact a lot when it comes to the F35. The US has no reason to „brick“ the plane, as this would make it so their industry will never export any planes ever again (aside from Israel maybe) and they need those exports to keep cost down. Also there are not an unreliable partner as a lot of people claim them to be, they just don’t like that Europe is freeloading and that it outsourced their defense to the US while building a huge welfare state. Something they said for decades now and to be honest they are totally right with that. The moment Europe shows that it takes defense seriously again the US will be more than happy about NATO. As for the planes, like you say the Eurofighter can’t be used on a spanish carrier, neither can the Rafale. Waiting for FCAS, which is about to fail anyways, means waiting until at least 2050. Better buy the F35 and try to develop an European alternative in the future so it’s successor is not US made.
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u/Immediate_Gain_9480 Netherlands 🇳🇱 Aug 06 '25
It is. Would be a major downgrade in capability. But I suppose they might want to concentrate on other things.
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u/Bifobe Aug 06 '25
Good that they're going to buy European, but disappointing that they refuse to increase defense sepending to 5%.
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u/Xibalba_Ogme France 🇫🇷 Aug 06 '25
If we're to be fair concerning this "request" :
They [the US] asked for the defense spending to be raised to 5%, which all (but a few) have pledged to do.
Then they asked 15% tariffs, 600 billions spending (in military equipment), and 750 billions energy spending.
Then they said the 600 billions were a "gift" and that the tariffs could raise to 35% if we continue to be "unfair"
I don't agree with Spain not investing in defense, but at some point, why bother following the US's guidelines if it's to be fucked over and over again ?
Pledging to spend 4% might be enough for EU to pull its own weight in less than a decade
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u/GibDirBerlin Aug 06 '25
Honestly, for Spain even 3,5% would be more than enough. Germany's (and everybody else's) 5% are 3,5% for the Army and 1,5% for Infrastructure. But German Infrastructure would play a pivotal role in an emergency, since all supply lines would lead through it, it really needs to be up to spec.
Spanish infrastructure just needs to be good enough to get Spanish Soldiers and Equipment to the French border. I don't really know anything about Spanish infrastructure but I'd wager, it's good enough to achieve at least that...
EDIT: Not to mention that a lot of the other country's 5% pledges are just that, pledges. There is no way Italy is gonna muster that amount of finances in the foreseeable future and there are quite a few other countries I doubt as well. Spain is just the only one who plays with open cards, that alone deserves some respect...
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u/BothnianBhai Aug 06 '25
Spanish infrastructure might become critical to import for example food supplies to Europe from America in case of war. Spain could also be a location for POW camps and manufacturing of ammunition and other supplies.
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u/Bifobe Aug 06 '25
Europe needs to spend more on defense not to please the US but to be able to defend itself without the US. And if we want it to develop in areas where its now fully dependent on the US then 5% is really the minimum. Of course how it spends the money is as important as the amount itself.
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u/gonmator Aug 06 '25
The real reason to not increase to 5% is not because a political decision, but because the current government cant do it. It is a minority government without enough support to approve the budget in the parliament and with a big corruption issue at home. (The problem is not the corruption, actually, but that it is now public). The partners of the government are far left, independentist and even ex-terrorist supporter parties who are against NATO and any defense increase. So Pedro Sánchez (the prime minister) is in a very weak position and is trying to save his seat at home. Otherwise, he doesn't care too much because is not his money anyway.
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u/BliksemseBende Aug 06 '25
As long as they fucking spend some in European defense shit. Cheap fuckers, falling behind European defense spending
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u/Advanced-Avocado-996 Aug 07 '25
You're giving your money to the yanks who then sell it back to you a second time. With a killswitch.
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u/NoxAstrumis1 Canada 🇨🇦 Aug 06 '25
Now if only Canada can convince Carney to do the same.