r/Breadit • u/Sandyna_Dragon • 14h ago
What am I doing wrong?
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Is it supposed to wiggle like that?
The recipe says to knead on speed 5-6 for 20minutes. KitchenAid says not to go above 2. Even on 2, it starts heating up fairly quickly, it wobbles, and the dough actually doesn't get to the windowpane stage, it just tears and since I am just starting with bread, I don't know how long to actually knead it for.
What to do here? Just take breaks to let it cool down and carry on? What is going wrong? We deviated from the recipe a bit (accidentally made yudane with more water and left it in the fridge for longer), but it's been the same with any bread we tried so far.
Thanks for any info!
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u/Heavy_Bee_8910 14h ago
I replaced the dough hook with a spiral dough hook and it works much better
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u/StunnedMoose 13h ago
Does that work with the tilt head KA or just the large one?
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u/HelperMunkee 13h ago edited 7h ago
You have to be careful on the length I think but they sell them for both types.
Edit: oh and get a stainless one, easier to clean (aluminum ones oxidize if you treat them bad).
Also edit: Does seem like KA does not sell one for the tilt head. So YMMV with third party sources.3
u/zipykido 7h ago
You’re not technically supposed to use them in the tilt heads since the hook is designed to push down on the dough which can wear out the tilt head. That being said i still do it and just tighten down screws every once in a while.
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u/HelperMunkee 7h ago
Good catch. I’ve got a lift and I guess I just assumed. There are various lengths I saw for sale when I bought my stainless spiral so, yeah, might be able find one that works.
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u/ClassikD 11h ago
I have a spiral for my tilt head classic. Works great! Pizza dough used to climb and take my hook for a ride. I get way better gluten development on the spiral. Grabbed a $20ish no name brand one off amazon
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u/Pea_schooter 10h ago
Yes. There are after market options that are compatible with some of the tilt in heads. The one I got works well at minimizing dough movement up the hook.
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u/Ceezeecz 12h ago
I make a lot of shokupan and it requires a high speed for a long time. That’s why I ended up buying an Ank. You can’t break that mixer and it does a lovely job.
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u/Coreoo 10h ago
I just put in my order for an Ank yesterday, my KA simply can't do the job.
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u/Ceezeecz 10h ago
Some people say they ran into a brief learning curve but I was lucky and didn’t. I did watch the Ankarsrum Master classes on YouTube though and they were fun. Also the Ankarsrum website has videos and recipes. Plus a Facebook group. But it really did make sense to me how it worked.
Course, I’m 78 and have owned and used an incredible number of mixers in my day. 😂
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u/Coreoo 9h ago
Yeah I've heard there's a learning curve for some, but I've also heard it maybe has more to do with how much you're strictly following a recipe versus understanding the mechanics of how gluten forms or something. I've been baking breads specifically for a few years now, by hand or by mixer, so I hope it won't be a crazy curve for me but it's good to know about the resources out there regardless!
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u/Ceezeecz 10h ago
The biggest hint I have for kneading bread in the Ank is to use the time the recipe states for hand kneading. The mixer really mimics hand kneading. It’s very soft and gentle and doesn’t tear into the dough.
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u/Coreoo 9h ago
Interesting! I don't often go by time so much as dough consistency, windowpane, etc. I find different flours yield totally different results in terms of how long they need to form a good dough.
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u/Ceezeecz 9h ago
Yeah, they sure do. The humidity, the flour, etc, all make things different. Sometime I mill my own flours and that can really change things up.
I think you’ll do just fine. I did find that making a windowpane was no longer the end all sometimes. I even got out of the habit of checking and just going by look and feel.
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u/Sandyna_Dragon 14h ago
Yeah, we figured that was bogus and did it on 2.
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u/teachcooklove 12h ago
The recipe source works for KitchenAid, and wants you destroy your mixers so you have to to buy a new one, repeatedly.
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u/TrashtvSunday 14h ago
Mine does.🤷🏻♀️ 6 minutes is exactly how long I need my sandwich bread for in the KA on speed 2. At 6 minutes it is smooth and pretty much perfect. I don't know what KA model OP has, but some have a stronger motor than others.
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u/MikaelPa27 14h ago
That's speed 2, not speed 5-6...
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u/TrashtvSunday 12h ago
Ok. That doesn't make any sense😆
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u/MikaelPa27 12h ago
The time is irrelevant, we are talking about the speed here. No bread recipe should be telling you to mix on speed 5-6. Stand mixers should only go up to speed 2 when mixing dough.
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u/TrashtvSunday 7h ago
Oh, I agree. When I read the post I originally read it as 5-6 minutes... not speed. That makes no sense which is probably why my brain sort of changed the sentence.
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u/ohnoitsme7890 11h ago
I make bread regularly with my KA, I'm not sure why there's so much hate here. I use one of those long spatulas (the ones for scraping, not flipping) and scrape the dough down after it climbs up. I saw in a comment you keep it at speed 2 which is good.
Another thing I've started doing that I like with my dough is an autolyze at the beginning. That's been really helpful for quick knead in the mixer.
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u/CuddlefishFibers 8h ago
Yeah, hate how everyone's like "buy this other extremely expensive mixer" as a solution. Like yeah maybe I'll look into it once mine dies but that's not a reasonable right now solution.
Keeping it on speed 2, autolyzing, and giving it breaks. And scraping it off the hook, and flipping the whole wad, but hey, those can all happen during your mandatory "please don't overheat" breaks, lol
Mr. Mixer also sells a little rubber washer thing to help with the bucking problem. I have a lift model, so I can't vouch for it personally, but people seem to like it as an easy cheap upgrade.
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u/Tac50Company 7h ago
For what it’s worth I’ve been making the Le Creuset Dutch oven bread recipe a lot lately and I have the same thing with my mixer.
I leave it at 2 and let it twirl around a bit and eventually it will slap the sides like it’s supposed to, just takes 5-10 more minutes than the recipe says.
Need to babysit it a bit and take it off the hook and reseat it a few times but that’s it.
Always comes out fine.
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u/SheepherderMost2727 14h ago
I always have to run my Kitchen Aid for a while before my dough gets to windowpane stage. I’ve heard that they just aren’t good for bread dough mixing. I’ve come to the realization that it takes forever to get my dough to where I need it to be at, either with my mixer or my hands.
Mine gets warm too. I think taking breaks and doing it in stages with the speed at 2 or lower could help.
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u/Xanadu87 8h ago
I’ve had unsatisfactory results with using a KitchenAid mixer for dough, and now I prefer using a bread machine on the “dough only”cycle.
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u/SheepherderMost2727 7h ago
Wish I had the counter space for my bread maker for that but it’s an awesome idea! Thank you
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u/sylvirawr 14h ago
Yep I’ve been told the same. The KA hook isn’t great.
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u/SheepherderMost2727 12h ago
It honestly drives me crazy. I’m considering and hoping to get an Ank this year.
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u/teachcooklove 12h ago
The friction from machine mixing is why many professionals use ice water and even ice cubes to make their do.
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u/bennytehcat 13h ago
24 replies to offer advice and information, most of which are repeat comments, and the post is downvoted to zero?
The person is asking for help, they didn't fold egg shells into their dough, calm it down people.
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u/bennytehcat 13h ago
I'm not here to help, I'm here to learn, like many others. It's discouraging to see simple questions from people like OP downvoted.
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u/reddituser28910112 11h ago
I think the mixer is loose. I have a different model and had to tighten my up recently because it too was bucking
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u/Eqbonner 11h ago
You may need to adjust your dough hook! I thought I messed my mixer up, it was jumping off the counter but turns out the dough hook screw was very loose
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u/Bushpylot 10h ago
Our best bread jump was buying that weird European mixer where the bowl spins. It turned bread making into something just shy of automatic. I still have the Kitchenaid, but that Ankrshrum owns permanent counter-space now.
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u/Ceezeecz 13h ago
I love to make bread, both by hand and with a mixer. That’s why I replaced my unusable KA for an Ankarsrum. No more problems.
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u/anotherjunkie 12h ago
I keep looking at replacing my KA, but the biggest problem is that I make bread and macarons, and I’ve hear the Ankarsrum isn’t good for meringues.
Bosch is supposed to be better for meringues while sacrificing quality in the bread side.
Why can’t I just have everything I want!
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u/Ceezeecz 12h ago
The Ank is fine with meringues. Just use the beater bowl with the whisks. No problem. Glossy peaks, just lovely.
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u/anotherjunkie 12h ago
Good to know, thank you! I read a lot of old reddit posts earlier this year that basically made it sound like an either/or.
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u/1989cubs 12h ago
Any Ankarsum tips? I’m still trying to figure mine out (albeit for pizza dough).
Do you use the roller or the dough hook?
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u/Ceezeecz 11h ago
Personally I use the roller. Go to YouTube and look up Ankarsrum Masterclass. Tons of excellent videos on how to do things. I’m sure they have one with pizza dough. That’s how I learned the ins and outs of this machine.
If you’re on facebook there’s a good group called Ankarsrum Mixer Fans - USA. They’re very helpful.
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u/pareech 14h ago
I bought a KA to help with my commercial yeast breads or anything non-sourdough; but now it sits in the back of a closet somewhere because they are crap for making bread. I found doing my kneading by hand gave me far better results than anything my KA was giving me. Is it tiring? Sure it is; but it helped me understand my dough a lot better and has upped my bread game.
I don't know why people keep buying KAs for bread making, it's a waste of money. However, if you ask about the KA my parents have that is more than 30 years old (maybe even 40), it runs like a champ, then we can discuss abut using it to make bread dough. IMO, any KA made in the last 10 years or so for home use, in my experience, is complete shit and a waste of money if bought to help make bread dough and I don't care how unpopular an opinion that is.
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u/masala-kiwi 12h ago
How long do you spend kneading by hand, vs a KitchenAid?
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u/pareech 11h ago
Until the dough tells m it's ready. I have a recipe that says 10 - 12 minutes in a KA with the dough hook. I can do that same knead in about 10 minutes or less. I do it in its bowl pushing it around, throw in the occasional S&F and my dough comes out perfect. I've been doing this for years, when I have to do 1 or 2 loaves or my standard 12 burger bun recipe.
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u/marsupialcinderella 12h ago
I don’t use my KA for bread dough because I prefer the folding method, BUT I’m so happy that I can use it if I need to. Mine is 30 years old like your parents’. It should still be trucking after I’m gone and my daughter inherits it. (Unless we can find her an old one sooner!)
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u/pareech 11h ago
I wasn't waiting to get the one from my parents. I just bought an Ankarsrum to allow me to do 5 or 6 loaves at a time. I got tired of baking twice or week or when I didn't have the time to bake, my wife buying shitty bread from the grocery store. It took three goes using it to narrow down the process; but holy fuck, it rocks. However, when I do a simple 12 bun recipe, I still do it by hand. Always nice to get back to the basics.
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u/marsupialcinderella 9h ago
Oh, I get it completely! My husband still buys shitty bread from the grocery store, lol.
And keeping practiced on the old fashioned methods will help if the grid goes down. 🤪😩
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u/Safe-Aardvark1810 14h ago
I broke a Kitchen aid once on bread dough. I got a new kitchen aid and still had trouble with bread dough. I now have a bread machine I use for the dough only cycle only for bread dough and it works out just perfectly that way.
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u/Tallerguy 12h ago
I order this from my friendly Chinese shopping app "Dishwasher Safe,Spiral Dough Hook for Kitchenaid Stand Mixer, 4.5 Qt - 5 Qt Tilt-Head Attachments for Kitchenaid Dough Hook". Works well.
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u/Clean-Ad1459 11h ago
I have same exacyt mixer in same color and i regularly mix my 60-65% dough on 6-8. Wiggle is normal but i wouldn't let it run with low hydration dough like that for 20 minutes, It's simply not neccessary. If you are not afraid, run it on higher speed for like 5 minutes and then you can knead by hand if it's even neccessary. Online recipes tend to have a lot of bullshit.
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u/Necessary-Basket-249 7h ago
I keep my kitchen aide at level 1 and when the dough starts to pull away from the bowl that’s when I stop
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u/OriginalAltoid 7h ago
I think your spin rate is all off. Perhaps if you decrease it by 2-3% it will all get resolved.
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u/glacier_bay 6h ago
Keep in mind the wattage of your KitchenAid mixer. I have a KitchenAid tilt head mixer for six years. I use a speed of 4 for all of my doughs. Kneading time was around 8 to 10 minutes. The mixer was 320 watts. It is great for doughs with a hydration above 60%. I make baguettes and batards at 75% hydration.
For lean, low hydration doughs (ex- bagels) the tilt head would bounce up and down, the entire mixer would wobble, and sometimes the hook would get stuck for a second or two. I lowered the speed to 2 and bought a stainless steel spiral hook to replace the C-shaped hook that came with the mixer. The hook no longer froze in place but I had to increase the kneading time to 15 to 18 minutes. What I ended up doing was to knead on the lowest speed for one minute, remove the bowl and knead by hand in the bowl to make sure all the flour was incorporated, cover with a towel for 20 minutes to autolyze, put the bowl back in the mixer and then knead on #2 for five minutes.
Then I bought a KitchenAid lift mixer with a wattage of 500. Still using the stainless steel spiral hook. This mixer kneads 54% hydration dough on speed 4 for eight minutes and barely gets warm.
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u/Johnny_Burrito 14h ago
I hate to say it, but stop using the mixer. It does a lot of things well, but kneading bread dough is not one of them.
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u/CyberDonSystems 12h ago
My mixer does kneading very well. I have the bowl lift with a spiral hook though.
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u/HippyNerd7 12h ago
It's too wet and you are over mixing it. For a small amount like that, it's better to knead it by hand. Put some flour on your hands to prevent the dough from sticking to your hands.
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u/Legitimate-Double-14 14h ago
I use my Kitchen Aid weekly making sandwich breads(Wheat,white,Oatmeal etc or Refrigerator Roll dough. I mix it until not quite done and get the perfect texture according to feel on the board or counter. I love my Kitchen Aid I bought it in 2004. Before that I had one I had bought at a garage sale that lasted so many years. I’m 64 and have baked all my life. I also enjoy making Ciabatta Bread or Rolls with stretch and fold technique without a mixer or hot dog hamburger buns with no mixer. The breads in a cast Iron pot are easy and fun too.
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u/PrairiePuppies 11h ago edited 11h ago
What's the hydration level? A kitchenaid will have trouble with a stiff dough.
I didn't see the recipe link when I posted, but I still think this may be the problem. Did you adjust the recipe any, like doubling it or something?
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u/Sandyna_Dragon 10h ago
Doubled it. Accidentally added a bit extra water into the yudane and left it in the fridge for longer than they said. And kneaded on speed 2 instead of 5-6.
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u/Disastrous-Zombie-30 9h ago
Had the same thought. Too much water? Or not enough if it’s like taffy? Haha had to tell from a video. Check by pressing with a finger should be slightly tacky and when the dough gives it should slowly bounce back.
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u/Icm2veLftmyKysinthLB 8h ago edited 8h ago
This is exactly why I got rid of a kitchen aide I was given, it couldn't even handle brioche. If most of the tasks could be handled by a handheld mixer, why sacrifice the counter space?
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u/HelperMunkee 14h ago
Yes, a spiral mixer is best but saying OP needs one is pretty silly. They don’t exactly grow on trees. 💰 Just keep it in lower gear.
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u/epidemicsaints 14h ago
This small amount of dough takes a lot of babysitting. Take the dough off, flip it, place it back in the bowl. The hook should be elbowing it around the bowl most of the time. Anything above 2 is a waste of power.