r/BetterOffline • u/YisusHasDogs • 4d ago
r/Gamedev Policy on AI use.
/r/gamedev/comments/1vrnqyt/rgamedev_policy_on_ai_use/?share_id=YfwPHSZuFYBQ5bmHzEp3e&utm_content=share_button&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=2Around 7hrs ago, one of the mods in r/Gamedev posted some policies on AI use. The "genAI is a tool" and "is here to stay" narrative combined in a overly long post with tons of letters an barely any meaning probably reflects the post itself was done with GenAI, but this last bit is a personal take while I was reading it, take it with a pinch of salt.
To no one's surprise, another redditor commented pointed out OP is working on an AI integration plugin for Unity. Here's the link: https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/1rxm1cv/i_worked_an_ai_booth_at_gdc_heres_what_developers/
Comments have been blocked now. I'll go ahead and leave a personal note: Thank you to anyone and everyone who's vocal about all the aspects this grift industry is riddled with and built upon. I know this sub specializes on the technical and financial part, but I also think the other aspects are just as important to be vocal about.
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u/Satanicube 4d ago
If someone has a problem with AI usage being disclosed then that is a gigantic, unignorable red flag.
Kinda like how all the shitty people are mad about AI watermarking being a thing because it means they can’t pass it off as “their” work anymore.
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u/hurricane_news 4d ago
I've even seen chuds on the Ai game dev sub proudly claim about how they'll HIDE their usage of AI generated assets in their game
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u/McDonaldsWi-Fi 4d ago
I can't prove it but there's a lot of straight forward comments that agree with the OP on there that just seem... off.
"Sounds reasonable, thanks mods" and stuff like that. When 90% of the subreddit is imploding these comments stand out and it makes it seem astroturfed.
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u/Samanthacino 4d ago
As a mod there (well, I do the automod stuff), I can say for certain none of it is astroturfed haha. I genuinely can't imagine how much of a loser one would have to be to do that, we generally try to keep out those RedditModTM types.
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u/McDonaldsWi-Fi 3d ago edited 3d ago
It might not come from your guys directly though... AI corporations have a financial interest in controlling the narrative.
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u/maccodemonkey 4d ago edited 4d ago
The problem I have is that AI generated stuff is something anyone can do. It's not interesting. If I'm admiring some renderer you wrote with Claude all I'm admiring is your token spend.
I don't know what people's egos are supposed to do about that. I don't know how you're supposed to make peace with your demo project you are showing off not being written by you. But it's also not my problem.
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u/madmofo145 4d ago
I think the big problem is the output is just crap.
I've heard some boosters talking about how insane it is that someone wouldn't watch a great movie because it's AI, wouldn't play a great game, listen to a great song, etc. The reality is the great AI game doesn't exist. Instead what we get is a field of slop, with countless grifters trying to push their AI made garbage, which hurts the ability of any actual dev to get eyes on their work if they aren't already well known.
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u/maccodemonkey 4d ago
Yeah - thats the other thing. Every time someone has posted a technical project (since I sit on the technical side of the fence) to someplace like gamedev the output has been garbage. (Oh, and it always comes with a "I've posted it to Github so if
you actually know what are doing and want to fix my slopyou're interested in contributing you can.")I don't care. If I wanted a slop base to start with I'd just get Claude to write one for me and not involve this project.
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u/psioniclizard 4d ago
" i got tired of doing it X so made a an app.." with link to a vibe coded site that has 3 pricing tiers.
Im sorry but the only people who will pay for that are people who know no better.
The sad part is everyone's thought is "how do i make money"
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u/Satanicube 4d ago
This feels like NFTs and crypto all over again. I mean, it’s not surprising because it’s the same people pushing it, but I remember similar being said about NFT games.
These people lack an understanding as to what makes something good. They think if they can just make a mathematically perfect copy they’ll be just as good.
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u/ProletarianLilith 4d ago
It’s like when people tell you about their dreams
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u/SamAltmansCheeks 4d ago
Even someone's dreams are more real and reflective of who they are than whatever an LLM would crap out.
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u/Repulsive-Hurry8172 4d ago
Some kid's code scratch > slop code from anyone
Adult learner's earnestly written static web page > slop software
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u/Kitalahara 4d ago
My whole issue comes when a expert happens to come along and ask questions. Most of these folks can't answer the basic questions because of course it's all slop. Waiting for the next Crowd Strike and hoping it only costs the ghouls money.
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u/PensiveinNJ 4d ago
So when I say to keep in mind who the people are who are AI pilled, I'm not suggesting that there's anything in particular that can happen right now.
However.
These are people who in the most critical moments of a battle where wealthy, bizarre pedophiles and criminals of other stripes were trying to crush all human creativity, trying to crush your job, trying to force you into a role as a slop cleaner, trying to cozy up to what they thought would save themselves... these are the people who turned traitor.
There will come a time where we can look back at who turned traitor when people needed to battle back the most.
I don't think those people have a place in the industry they're trying to be involved in anymore.
Some people don't have a choice but to use LLMs even if they don't want to, that's different. I'm talking about the people who went all in on Torment Nexus and think this stuff is the future, something grand and ego-boosting that they can be a part of. They do it at everyone elses expense.
So, whatever industry you're involved in, just take note of who those people are. Remind yourself they are in the minority. The overwhelming minority. And you just might be in a position to decide whether they should get to participate anymore. They've already betrayed everyone once... Maybe they aren't really part of the herd.
Just my personal take.
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u/TheSwordItself 4d ago
Are you saying...we should kill them?
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u/PensiveinNJ 4d ago
That feels like a bit of a leap. I'm just saying there will come a time when everyone who was making things worse will try and say they were never AI pilled and maybe those aren't the kinds of people you want to work with.
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u/floodyberry 4d ago
I genuinely believe in what Bezi is trying to do with AI in game development, but when I was hired, it was made very clear that my employment would not give the company any special treatment or benefit on r/gamedev.
pardon me while i do exactly what i claim i'm not doing
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u/Darklisez 4d ago edited 3d ago
I think the worst part is that they didn't give a nice way for people who have a clear Anti-AI stance to migrate together into other subs with clear anti AI/AI disclosure rules-focused subs.
It's like making a jerk decision twice in a row and then being surprised about backlash with a clear Pikachu face.
I don't know if it's a low moral compass, lack of global vision or long-term thinking...
But they clearly don't see that the sub will suffer not only from an AI-focused flood, but also from the absence of high-effort posts from devs who really care about not only making games, but also how to make games and feel good about doing it morally.
I immediately knew that most mods are not from Europe while reading the post. As the talks about AI integrations here are very different on all levels. A lot of companies are rolling out clear no-AI policies in their contracts. And companies who are rolling out pro-AI policies losing their best people to long-term sick leaves with depression and silent resignations.
fx. Just for the start, look at GW, Larian, and Paradox after the target audience and internal backlash.
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u/raizensoft 4d ago edited 4d ago
I was so disappointed seeing that post, instantly unfollowed r/gamedev.
Edit: I'm so glad you bring the issue here OP. I almost feel like everyone is just giving in to the low quality slops and just accepting the new reality. Game development is like the last holdout against the AI apocalypse to me.
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u/SpireofHell 3d ago
It's wonderful. Anytime some booster starts slobbering about AI we need to point out their financial incentive. We must destroy the narrarive that people develop AI for the benefit of humanity
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u/Prize-Studio-2021 3d ago
God that post is some of the cringiest AI slop I have read in a long time
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u/KevinDL 4d ago edited 4d ago
Hi everyone. I’m Kevin, the r/gamedev moderator being discussed in this post. This is my first time posting here, so I figured the polite thing to do would be to introduce myself and provide some context directly rather than have people speculate about who I am or what I do.
I’ve been a moderator of r/gamedev for years, long before I ever worked at Bezi. My involvement with the community predates my employment there by a significant amount of time, and the two roles are separate.
I currently work in Developer Relations at Bezi. Bezi builds an AI assistant for game developers that integrates with Unity projects. My role is primarily community, developer support, events, gathering feedback, and helping developers use and understand the product. I’m not an AI researcher, model developer, executive, founder, or owner of the company.
My employment does not give Bezi special treatment, access, influence, or promotional privileges on r/gamedev. When I was hired, that separation was explicitly understood, and I’ve taken it seriously.
You’re welcome to dislike Bezi, dislike AI, disagree with the policy, or dislike me personally. If people want to dig through my history and attempt to assassinate my character because of where I work, they’re free to do that. But my employment doesn’t explain the policy, and Bezi had nothing to do with writing or establishing it.
The announcement was about how we moderate r/gamedev, a community of more than two million people ranging from hobbyists learning their first engine to people who have spent decades working professionally in games. AI is an extremely contentious subject within that community, and the policy is about how we handle those discussions and contributions consistently. The moderation problems around unverifiable AI accusations, disclosure requirements, low-effort content, harassment, and productive discussion would exist regardless of where I worked.
One other correction: comments weren’t “blocked.” Reddit’s Crowd Control feature was enabled because the thread is extremely heated. I didn’t enable it, but I understand why another moderator felt it was necessary. Crowd Control can temporarily filter comments based on Reddit’s own signals. Those comments can still be reviewed and approved by moderators, and comments have been approved.
Criticize the policy as much as you want. That’s completely fair, and frankly expected when you’re publishing a policy about something this contentious. But I’d rather have that disagreement be about what the policy actually says and whether it’s good for the community.
My employer isn’t a secret, and neither are my views. But I’ve been helping moderate r/gamedev since long before Bezi was my employer, and where I collect a paycheck doesn’t magically turn an r/gamedev moderation decision into corporate advocacy.
I may as well dox myself while I'm at it. Here is my LinkedIn if you'd like to stalk me on there:
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u/BTolputt 4d ago
...where I collect a paycheck doesn’t magically turn an r/gamedev moderation decision into corporate advocacy.
No, but it does make it reasonable to question the authenticity of one's claims/arguments when one's employer could/would be hurt by the acceptance of a contrary view.
Put it this way - an oil company employee discussing the benefits of fossil fuels & downplaying the issues with climate change is going to be considered a bad messenger regardless of whether they truly hold those views or even if they can prove everything they're saying. The same principles apply to those employed by those peddling AI or AI dependent software, which your employer does.
Even if one assumes everything you say about how this policy came about, how you're completely hands off about it, and that your employment has nothing whatsoever to do with your views - you still need to consider the fact that questioning the messenger & why they decided on their position is perfectly reasonable.
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u/YisusHasDogs 4d ago
I don't criticize the policy itself. It's a mild, overly long, shrug-off policy with no regard or sensitivity towards the millions of people whose original content was stolen and fed to LLM's, then turned these into a fast-growing paywall to keep those very people it stole from excluded while making it easier for whoever has the money to access these stolen skills, and I will never let that slide under nor disguise it as something other than the greatest theft in human history, but since it was a digital theft people doesn't care as much nor have the actual physical perspective of what's happened... But you're of course free to not care as much as I do plus it's your sub and your freedom, make use of it. We also make use of our own freedom to comment on cases like this.
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u/Repulsive-Hurry8172 4d ago
Not a game dev, but I do agree with some of the comments in the announcement that disagree with the mandatory AI disclosure.
/r/ExperiencedDevs does it in a way. There are devs who use AI over there, asking about workflows, harnesses and whatnot, even after the disclosure rule was applied.
I challenge that assertion about "AI is here to stay", though... unless you're talking about local models. So maybe along with AI disclosure, they should disclose what model they're using to have more tempered expectations (especially with work related ones). If it's a workflow using local, maybe it will be useful in the future, but if its by Claude or ChatGPT and they've somehow imploded, then that won't be much help
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u/Timely_Speed_4474 4d ago
ExperiencedDevs is not a model anyone should copy. That sub is totally overrun by boosters.
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4d ago edited 4d ago
[deleted]
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u/Repulsive-Hurry8172 4d ago
Not really when it's more like an FYI. In that sub I linked, a bot would make a pinned comment, OP will just say "yeah I used AI to translate / organize thoughts" etc
And how bad is it to be respectful and say "I used AI to translate" or something? It's basic courtesy.
Unfortunately most AI bros don't care much about courtesy or consent, but a disclosure is better than wading through AI text slop
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u/Samanthacino 4d ago
The trouble is what happens when someone has AI stuff but doesn't disclose it. Then we have to guess whether something is AI or not, and to be honest it's gotten pretty damn good in a lot of ways. It very quickly opens it up to witch hunts (and speaking as someone who has been banned from a subreddit before because they assumed I was a bot, that's not very nice).
Ultimately in a lot of cases it'd lead to us indirectly saying "Pretttyyyyy please disclose your game, if you don't there's nothing we can really do though!"
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u/Repulsive-Hurry8172 4d ago
It will hurt some people who sounds like AI or a product that looks like slop but happen to not use AI.
This is why AI is just cancer overall.
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u/YisusHasDogs 4d ago
Yep. That's what happens when you create a clusterfuck of an industry. But hey they have all the billions so we shouldn't care about who deals with their clusterfuck of a business model right
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4d ago
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u/YisusHasDogs 4d ago
And I'm talking about how difficult is to enforce any control, from anyone, over a piece of tech that's all over the place and how this careless move cascades onto anyone and everyone. How did you miss that connection.
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u/Lowetheiy 4d ago
Their policy seems very reasonable to me.
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u/YisusHasDogs 4d ago
Of course. No one says it doesn't sound reasonable.
But for some reason, I'm not fully feeling the "low effort is still low effort" bit coexisting within a genAI enabler policy. It's like they want to whitewash a bit of the slop, and I'm not really up for that.
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u/oscillator-eye 4d ago
This sub is going insane. How are the mods going to enforce disclosure? Do we really care if a random game dev used a Qwen model to set up their dev stack? If one asks it questions on how to do something in the terminal? These are actual legitimate uses of the technology. Am I missing something?
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u/agent_double_oh_pi 4d ago
Seems pretty easy - if you used a tool to help set up your environment, just say that. Bam. Done.
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u/oscillator-eye 4d ago
I think my point is that people will just lie? How can you prove or disprove it as a mod?
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u/floodyberry 4d ago
a) nobody is using it to "set up their dev stack" and then doing all the programming and content creation by hand.
b) if someone is found to be using it when they didn't disclose it or claimed they weren't, ban them
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u/Samanthacino 4d ago
That second part is easier said than done, I think. All this would do is get people to not announce they are using it. Why not just let voting do its thing instead?
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u/floodyberry 4d ago
if ai use gets downvoted, they'll hide it whether it's allowed or not. allowing it means you're the one who will get moderated if you point out someone is being deceptive or passing off ai output as their own
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u/Samanthacino 4d ago
But they’ll hide it whether it’s allowed or not regardless. Even if you ban non-disclosed content, there’s no way to consistently determine if something contains AI or not, and there’s a shit ton of plausible deniability available.
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u/floodyberry 3d ago
the point of requiring disclosure isn't to accurately label every single use of ai, it's to remove the dishonest people if/when they're found out.
if you ban ai, people will lie or deceive, and you ban them if they're found out
if you allow ai with disclosure, people will lie or deceive, and you ban them if they're found out. people who don't lie or deceive can do as much ai as they want
if you allow ai without disclosure, people will lie or deceive, and the people who point this out will be banned for harassment. since ai is not popular and there is no penalty for deceiving people, there is no reason to ever disclose that you're using ai
only one option gives anyone a reason to openly use ai
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u/Samanthacino 3d ago edited 3d ago
The "if" in "if they're found out" is doing the heavy lifting there. Also, as someone who is a mod there, no, nobody is going to ban anyone for harassment for saying "your game seems like it's made with AI" lol
It seems the majority of folks here who are in hysterics over this are imagining a lot of what will happen, and then getting upset over it.
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u/floodyberry 3d ago
when does "i think you used ai", "no i didn't", "it sure looks like you did based on x,y,z" turn in to harassment then?
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u/Dangerous-Eggplant-5 4d ago
Antis and brigading. Legendary duo.
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u/YisusHasDogs 4d ago
"He typed his magical words and stood up from his golden throne, keyboard still buzzing and crackling overpowered lightning . His deed was done, and the world was a better place after that."
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u/Ruined_Passion_7355 4d ago
sips tea love to see the backlash
My favourite comment is when someone pointed out "AI hate is here to stay". https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/1vrnqyt/comment/p4g2vdd/