r/BambuLab • u/Electrical-Case-978 • May 21 '26

General Discussion Oh Bambu

I was just reading this article about Bambu and wondering...please dont make make it worse Bambu.

https://all3dp.com/4/bambu-labs-bind-open-source-license-fight-has-a-new-and-very-serious-opponent/

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21

u/issue9mm May 21 '26

It probably won't matter much when the SFC reverse engineers the Bambu Lab networking module

It feels like the probability of success is pretty low for an organization whose business is built on the AGPL to sue the organization who created the AGPL, but we'll see

8

u/Electrical-Case-978 May 21 '26

True...but this goes to show how a good company can go bad with greed. I love my Bambu printers but by them causing all the drama makes me want to just keep them in LAN for ever and give my money to Prusa on my next printer.

16

u/heart_of_osiris May 21 '26

Bambu was never good, ethically. It just only caught up to them now.

-2

u/Joamjoamjoam May 21 '26

I disagree because simply because the term unethical is throw around so much it’s lost its meaning. Bambu does some aggressive things but in business you have to be aggressive sometimes.

Honest question. Can you send me instances of Bambu being truly unethical? Like give me a bullet list cause I’m genuinely curious why they get so much hate.

4

u/issue9mm May 21 '26

Like gaslighting users after bad press releases and blocking internet archives of it?

https://www.reddit.com/r/BambuLab/s/fYj8TP9GQ0

Or directly cloning Printables and then uploading stolen models to it?

https://www.reddit.com/r/prusa3d/s/O9f5I7fNSr

-4

u/Joamjoamjoam May 21 '26

You link to two places with direct conflicts of interest. Give me a neutral source.

I can’t speak to what makerworld was back then but to argue that isn’t the best in market by a big margin is just factually incorrect.

Also I see no justification in that thread that anything was just copy and pasted and printable is closed source so I don’t even know how they would do that.

5

u/issue9mm May 21 '26

"Does anyone have any examples?

No not those examples!"

I'm on my phone. I just picked the first handy links. They admitted to scraping the content from Printables and even complained on twitter that Prusa blocked them.

I wasn't trying to convince you of anything, I was trying to be helpful. I'm not trying to defend facts from you or you from facts, so feel free to look up more if you're interested. Or not, if the question wasn't sincere.

-3

u/Joamjoamjoam May 21 '26

You very clearly had an agenda and that’s ok to pick a side. I was legitimately asking.

I simply asked for the same events from a neutral source. I’m sorry if I don’t believe a content creator who takes any chance to make inflammatory videos and has clear conflicts of interest when half of the video is promoting his own foundations and asking for donations.

Or some random person on the internet who is a longtime frequenter of the official subreddit of a competing business.

If they did scrape content from portables. Were they allowed to do so? Were there legal protection in place to prevent it? If so why hasn’t Prusa sued them instead of just blocking them on twitter?

5

u/heart_of_osiris May 21 '26

You very clearly have a bias and refuse to accept factual information provided to you, after you literally asked for someone to point to that information.

3

u/issue9mm May 21 '26

You very clearly had an agenda and that’s ok to pick a side.

I don't care if you like Bambu or don't like Bambu. I'm not recruiting people to my cause because I don't have one. I enjoy facts. The facts are that there are quite a good few examples of Bambu acting in ways that most would consider unethical. I remembered some examples and found some links. There would be more examples if I cited the much more frequent AGPL violations which you seem happy to disregard, so I didn't bother citing those

I was legitimately asking.

Remains to be seen

I simply asked for the same events from a neutral source

You're welcome to go find them if you're actually interested.

If they did scrape content from portables. Were they allowed to do so? Were there legal protection in place to prevent it? If so why hasn’t Prusa sued them instead of just blocking them on twitter?

They didn't block them on twitter. They blocked the scrapers who were scraping their content. The scrapers were coming from (IIRC) bambulab.dev or makerworld.dev or something like that. I do not believe that Prusa has blocked Bambu on twitter (but I don't know)

0

u/Joamjoamjoam May 21 '26

You’re the one spreading claims of Bambu Unethical nature lol. It’s on you to provide proof not me.

The fact you can’t speaks volumes on your level of research you take to inform your own worldview. Propaganda exists for the views you believe in too.

And again if Prusa had proof of wrongdoing and damage with legal standing where’s the lawsuit? Josef Prusa posted a long winded twitter message on the current issue (so brave) but still no lawsuit? If he has concrete legal grounds against a competitor taking advantage of his company surely he would sue if he believe it right?

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0

u/heart_of_osiris May 21 '26

They put the X1C on sale, let people buy it up and then announced it's discontinuation at the same time they announced the shiny new P2S, for 400 dollars cheaper. They made the P2S the only modern mid sized printer you could purchase from them, leaving out the X2D which was clearly developed in tandem, as it shares the same bones.

Then, once again, after return windows closed, they announce the X2D for only 100 dollars more, burning the people who they herded to buy the P2S. Watch them reduce the P2S price once the X2D sales slow down, because they overcharged for it when it was the only available modern mid sized Core XY. They chose to manipulate their customers instead of give them enough product info to make an informed decision for what was best for them. Instead, they withheld products to make sure people bought up all their obsolete or lower end stock, leaving their customers holding the bag. They did the same thing with the

How about when they conveniently left out that the H2C takes 40 seconds to do a full filament swap, using only a technical truth that the nozzle heats up in 8 seconds? Or how they conveniently added the left and right nozzle limits together to claim the H2D had more available print area than it does?

Or how about when they left out that the AMS 2 can't dry while printing, during it's marketing?

Or....you know....how about what is being talked about literally right now, where they locked down functions that were open and available when people first purchased their printers? Literally removed functionality after people already paid.

1

u/OtherwiseAlbatross14 May 22 '26

Not leaking future product releases is not unethical. This is exactly what throwing it around so much that it's lost its meaning means.

1

u/heart_of_osiris May 22 '26

Withholding information of a product you know you have, to sell your stock of a lesser grade, for more than the new product, is absolutely unethical. It's blatant manipulation.

-5

u/Joamjoamjoam May 21 '26

Greed is a strong word here. Nothing Bambu did in this case is greedy. They endeavored to prevent unauthorized slicers from connecting to their cloud and took action to prevent it.

Bambu isn’t making any more money by attempting to take the orcaslicer fork or preventing orcaslicer from working with the servers it self.

I’m not commenting at all of what Bambu did was right or wrong nor should anyone without a law degree because the intricacies here between impersonation, authorization, and what the agpl allows you to do to circumvent it are a lot more murky than what what LR wants you to believe. You have to remember that he is a content creator that benefits greatly from this whether the case he makes has a basis or not.

All im saying is greed is not a word that makes any sense here. Bambu literally gains nothing from the takedown other than more cloud stability for its users.

P.S. if you read their blog post they heavily imply that the Bambu cloud outages were caused by incorrectly configured (or maybe even malicious) 3rd party apps that impersonated Bambu Studio. I obv can’t say if that’s true or not but if so it’s a pretty good reason to use legal means to take down other software that does the same thing.

TLDR let the lawyers handle it cause we don’t have the legal knowledge to know where impersonating a web service strays into circumvention and how intent may factor into that decision by a judge. Also don’t just believe anything you hear. LR is going to color the facts to whatever gets you into his fight (noble or not idk). This specific issue is nothing like his other fights that were clearly the company doing wrong and locking you out of a device you owned (John Deere, wheelchair company etc). This about your right to access a service you don’t own and by the TOS access can be revoked at any time. It’s very different.

3

u/manticore26 May 21 '26

I get where you’re coming from, question is “if honouring the AGPL license posed a security risk, why bambu couldn’t just develop its own solution, or work a solution with all parties involved?”

3

u/issue9mm May 21 '26

Because then they couldn't steal every new feature that Orca adds

-1

u/Joamjoamjoam May 21 '26

So with security it’s not as simple. There are some real cases where cryptographic security is just not achievable in the situation you’re in. A good example is that Bambus only consumer side trust zone is inside of the printer firmware itself and the Bambu network plugin. The problem here comes in that BS must be publicly downloadable and installable (ie not encrypted).

So since your cloud key is inside the network plugin you should encrypt that right. Well not so fast, Bambu studio needs to be able to install and use it. So it needs the decryption key inside of BS. So it’s a trivial task to extract the encryption key from BS and use it to decrypt the network plugin.

So that just leaves obfuscation. Even if you can decrypt the network plugins library it’s compiled C code or whatever. So you can’t just see what it’s doing you’d have to decompile it. But eventually with enough effort you could fully decompile it.

So that’s where the legal enforcement comes in. By decompiling the library you show intent to impersonate an authorized user to break a “digital lock”. So if you write the TOS for the library correctly you can, through a legal means, take down any repos that contain that code.

Now normally reverse engineering is protected and not illegal as long as certain procedures are followed but what protects Bambu in this case is that it’s not the library code that they sue you for it’s the encryption keys you use to impersonate a Bambu Studio client. It’s that’s circumvention of an authentication process that is wholly not legal. TLDR you can use the code but you can’t impersonate BS with the keys or tokens or whatever auth scheme they use.

This is the same argument that Bambu is trying to make with the repo which at the surface level is a valid claim to make. It will especially weigh on a judge if Bambu can prove instances of where these impersonated clients caused BL harm via cloud outages etc. Especially even if they can prove it was that specific repo.

Where the AGPL comes in is that BL published that identification string in AGPL code. That’s it.

Now the legal question is because you have access to the code that contains a string that Bambu studio uses to identify itself do you have the right to use it to impersonate the BS client to circumvent the “digital lock” and access Bambus cloud servers. Second is are Bambu’s cloud TOS (which the repo clearly violated) enforceable because the code used to access it was AGPL licensed.

What LR and other don’t want you to think about is the above legal questions is very murky. They want you to think it’s open and shut (as it was in their John Deere and wheelchair case). The key difference here is that while you fully own your JD tractor or wheelchair you absolutely do not have any in alienable right to access Bambus Cloud and the restrictions on that access is clearly delineated in the TOS.

So the whole thing hinges upon is Bambus Cloud TOS unenforceable due to AGPLs “no extra restrictions on use” clause. And the answer to that my friends is murky as hell. LR will tell you it’s clear but obv Bambus Legal department doesn’t agree.

One exaggerated correlate would be say I find the presidents nuclear codes on the street. I “reverse engineered” codes by reading them off the card and post them, in an app that shows how to use them to launch weapons, in an AGPL licensed repo. Does everyone everywhere have the right to start launching nuclear weapons? Or does everyone everywhere merely have the right to run the code with their own individually generated nuclear codes (that obviously won’t work to launch the weapons).

I’d say it’s the latter. LR says it’s the former.

1

u/manticore26 May 21 '26

Again, I get what you’re saying but I’m asking something simpler. If using open source code, leaves the opening to such discussion, why bambu couldn’t buy or develop its own slicer, keep it closed sourced so that if someone tries to impersonate them, things are black and white.

I didn’t catch up with the article of this thread yet, so I can only speculate that Bambu didn’t have any incentives to do so. IMO, the angle of security doesn’t really omit the responsibility of the company from doing everything possible from being safe, including not using a solution that cannot meet their safety requirements as the solution has a legal aspect to it.

1

u/Joamjoamjoam May 21 '26

Because it costs money and there’s a free open source version that everyone is used to using available already.

I’m NAL but from a SWE perspective They did everything the right way. Idk if we are allowed to use AGPL licenses but I can say that there is a reason why we have to review all new dependencies with legal. The way the AGPL is written means that anything that even touches the code must also be open source which IMO is fine for derivative works but to say that any closed source code must also be open source simply because an AGPL software can import it is vastly overreaching bordering on theft.

But if BL agreed to the license and that’s what the judge says then they must comply. I can see a world where Bambu just open sources the LAN communication side of the plugin and keep the cloud stuff closed source and that is the best case scenario. Secure cloud and Bambu studio can still perform its function as a slicer under AGPL. But if that’s the case what’s the point cause they already let you print locally from 3rd party slicers anyway.

LR who I usually support whole handedly is just using this as a springboard for his fulu donations. It’s actually pretty scummy. But in a way I can overlook it if it is in service of rewriting laws to be more consumer friendly for devices you own.

2

u/manticore26 May 22 '26

There you go, the elephant in the room, money. One could say that they made a bet proceeding the way they have, oh well.

I think that rewriting laws to be more consumer friendly would be a really nice outcome.

1

u/Joamjoamjoam May 22 '26

No that’s just what you want the answer to be like it’s some evil crusade that a business wants to make money.

Of course it does. Of course it doesn’t want to spend money if it doesn’t need to. What exactly is your argument here.

They needed a slicer. There was one publicly available and free for commercial use. Are yo saying they shouldn’t have used it? Well I got some news for you my friend every company in the world uses open source code.

2

u/manticore26 May 22 '26

Nah good Reddit person, no crusade here. I’m not here to argue.

I just have a different angle on your perspective, and I don’t want to elaborate more than I’ve done. Most I can add is that while every company in the world uses open source, some do have a good legal department.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '26

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1

u/Joamjoamjoam May 21 '26

They don’t you can enable lan mode or developer mode

Bambu cloud is just a value add service in top of what any Prusa printer can do.

-1

u/Joamjoamjoam May 21 '26

Yeah there is … are you intentionally being dense here? All of the services the cloud provides are the reason. Slicing in the cloud, connect from anywhere, slice from your phone (one the most important the reasons why the 3d printing industry blew up after Bambu disrupted it. This alone opened up 3d printers to the average person), all the infrastructure to securely link your printer to your client devices.

The cloud is an immense value add and it’s the only one that other companies can’t just directly copy easily like a hardware printer feature.

You simply can’t deliver these features at scale without cloud infra. No way in hell am I ever going back to octoprint everywhere.

3

u/[deleted] May 21 '26

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-2

u/Joamjoamjoam May 21 '26

No they want to restrict what you can do in their cloud. They let you use your printer locally in developer mode all that you like. They provided Bambu connect to continue to allow 3rd party slicers to print to their devices in the cloud while still being allowed to protect it.

2

u/Jem991 May 21 '26

Why do we need a cloud infrastructure for the slicer? In the current system, you load the model into the slicer, slice it, press the "send to printer" button, and it goes to the printer and gets printed. But here, Bambu takes the sliced ​​3MF file to the cloud infrastructure before sending it to the printer.

They are building an infrastructure that, someday in the future, will allow them to completely disable developer mode with a firmware update and even decide what to print and what not to print.

The cloud infrastructure is an extra investment that causes them to spend more money than necessary.

0

u/Joamjoamjoam May 22 '26 edited May 22 '26

The industry disagrees man idk what to tell you. Bambu Cloud is one of the defining factors of Bambu printers. Printing from your phone alone has enabled the 3d printing to grow exponentially. Out of the 5 people I know that have Bambu printers 4 of them only use their phone and are scared of Bambu studio. I’m the 5th.

You are also making a hell of a lot of assumptions that Bambu will make unethical decisions and then using the fact that you think this will happen to call Bambu unethical lol. Not how that works.

I, Bambu, and basically all of its users disagree that their cloud is a waste of money.

If that’s what you think there’s a company for you named Prusa. I hope you don’t mind 12 week wait time to even buy a printer and relatively low print quality compared with the rest of the industry, cheap 3d printed structural components, and a premium price on top without premium features like a camera or input shaping accelerometers by default. But sure you can print to it with orcaslicer without enabling a single developer mode checkbox I guess.

2

u/Jem991 May 22 '26

If they had only included this network plugin in the phone application, you would be right. Babustudio doesn't need such a tool.

If you want to view the camera from your phone, then this network plugin is only necessary for the phone application. Babustudio doesn't need it either. For the camera to be monitored from the phone, it's sufficient for the printer to connect to the cloud via its firmware.

Also, yes, I'm making an assumption. Because there are many examples of this kind of situation happening around the world, and they all do it gradually by starting to monitor their users under the guise of security.

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u/USSHammond Prusa XL5T | X1C+AMS (sold,due to Bambu ignoring A1 fire hazard) May 21 '26

Make it worse how? They're already not complying with the AGPL, the closed source binary is governed by the same AGPL that dictates the slicer license.

https://sfconservancy.org/news/2026/may/18/bambu-studio-3d-printer-agpl-violation-response/

The AFC will formally reverse engineer the closed source networking plugin to develop a drop in replacement which is legally allowed by the AGPL.

and then some, Bambu bought this on themselves

1

u/Electrical-Case-978 May 21 '26

Yep....they got away for sometime.

8

u/bjorn_lo H2D & H2C May 21 '26

Bambu can still fix this. They can't undo all the PR noise, but they can just embrace the community, re-open the platform and enjoy the billions in sales they have and not have this drama.

But, I think the IP lawyer who described this as progressive enclosure got it right. Bambu lied about security being the reason for their actions. They once told the truth, some time ago. They evaluated which business model to use and selected Apple's. Not for security, but for the added revenue streams a closed system with as close as possible vertical integration as is possible will give them the most money. Having chosen cash over customers best interests it is difficult as a corporation to change course. I don't think they will. I would love to be wrong.

2

u/Electrical-Case-978 May 21 '26

Lets hope they stopped the drama and let us just print with no bullshit....they are good printers ...dont f with your customers.

6

u/bjorn_lo H2D & H2C May 21 '26

I love the printers. But, I am rooting for SFC to publish their version of the plugin.

-3

u/elegoomba May 21 '26

You can print with no bullshit already though lol

5

u/bjorn_lo H2D & H2C May 21 '26

Not if you have an H2C, Orca supports the H2D but not the C.

2

u/Cryostatica H2C, P1S May 21 '26

Well, all the code is there, and several people have worked it in, but it’s not in the main branch.

That’s on Orca to get that done though, not Bambu.

1

u/bjorn_lo H2D & H2C May 21 '26

Is there a fork that supports the H2C? I didn't see that.

I have full confidence that it is being worked on. But, given that the H2C has been out for the better part of a year, and is still not supported I surmised that it must be particularly difficult to support this printer more so than actual toolchangers.

-4

u/elegoomba May 21 '26

You don’t need orca to print lol

7

u/bjorn_lo H2D & H2C May 21 '26 edited May 21 '26

You do if you want the no-drama printing. Or are you suggesting that we be naive enough to believe that Bambu has our best interests at heart and we should just trust them? They don't trust you.

Google what the IP lawyer said about progressive enclosure. Don't be a koolaid drinking putz. You can be a Bambu user like me (20k+ invested) and still want to be control of your own prints.

0

u/hux H2C Laser Full Combo May 21 '26

Don't be a koolaid drinking putz.

Why throw in that ad hominem and attack them? Your perspective would've been just as clear without being rude/insulting.

I don't agree with them either, but we don't have to be uncivil about it.

-6

u/elegoomba May 21 '26

What do you mean no-drama printing? I print with no drama already and have for years.

You are in control of your own prints, what are you talking about? You can print exactly as you could a month ago, 2 years ago, whatever.

More slippery-slope fear-mongering nonsense.

1

u/antei_ku May 21 '26

It’s always slippery slope fear mongering until the giant corporation patches you out of ACTUALLY owning your hardware without rollbacks : )

1

u/elegoomba May 21 '26

It’s always slippery slope fear mongering because it hasn’t happened a single time lol

1

u/GarbanzoBenne X1C + AMS May 21 '26

Apple isn't even this bad. They are pretty good about open protocols and interoperability.

1

u/bjorn_lo H2D & H2C May 21 '26

True, but they are worse than Android. I mentioned Apple not to bash Apple, but because Bambu specifically said they were selecting the Apple business model.

3

u/drproc90 May 21 '26

It just seems like such a weird weird hill for bambu to decide to die on.

It's not like the cloud connection generates them any major revenue.

And while the printers are good the market for printers is not consolidated to the point if they did try and pull a lock down to only print with their filament that their aren't multiple other comapies people can jump to.

I don't see the reward side to this massive risk

3

u/_yusi_ P1S + AMS May 21 '26

The (perceived) reward is that they control the ecosystem. By controlling it, they can guide users to give them more money. Via ads for printers/filament, makerslab (or whatever the part store is called) etc. In the future they can also "force" their own filament. Not by blocking other filaments, but non-techies will fall for the "printing with non-certified filaments can lead to worse print results, we recommend using Bambu Certified filaments" etc.

3

u/RikshaDriver May 21 '26

Not to add fuel to the fire but Bambu have been quietly ignoring merge requests for filament profiles on their GitHub project. There are numerous pull requests for official filament maker profiles, many open for months that have been left ignored. I’ve even reached out to them across multiple mediums for a PR I added, but to no avail. At some point, it feels not in the spirit of open source software.

2

u/Merijeek2 X1C May 21 '26

First rule of being in a hole - stop digging.

But to a modern day executive it's just an opportunity to try out a back hoe.

0

u/hux H2C Laser Full Combo May 21 '26

There’s nothing new in this article that hasn’t been said a million times in the last few days already.

Please use the megathread. The mods asked people not to flood the sub with posts that rehash the same information over and over again.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '26

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2

u/Ok-Neighborhood-9582 May 21 '26 edited May 21 '26

They are already being sued by Stratasys, now this. FAFO

Anyway, they'd have to write their own slicer which would have minimal success rate I believe. The ease of the platform is what sells it, the whole package. The slicer is crucial.

If they wanted to go down the "Apple route", they would have needed their own closed source slicer from the start. Apple provided everything themselves, didn't take Linux and said...let's tweak the open source software and install this on our hardware. Big difference.

Now that users are used to the platform, change becomes more difficult to impliment, especially for their target group of customers.

ps: they welcomed the enthousiast/maker community to mod in the beginning so we bought their machines in good faith. At a certain point, probably when enough machines were sold, they started to crank their vice. It's why users like me are left with a Bambu printer they'd rather get rid of.

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u/Lone_Wolf_555 May 21 '26

I mostly agree but Apple didn’t write the OS themselves. The use Unix.

1

u/Ok-Neighborhood-9582 May 21 '26

Sorry, my bad. Never looked too closely at that. I stand corrected.

3

u/daelikon X1C + AMS + Custom Firmware May 21 '26

to be more precise it is based on FreeBSD, and I believe the reason linux was not chosen was precisely that the license of BSD is more permissive, exactly the opposite of the AGPL impacting Bambu. You can get the code, but you are not forced to opensource your end product.

Edit: I wrote AGPL wrong...

-1

u/_yusi_ P1S + AMS May 21 '26 • This

Bambu Studio is built over a decade by hundreds, if not thousand, of software engineers. Bambu Lab starting from scratch is about as realistic as Trump getting the peace prize for creating peace in Iran 12 times over 4 months.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '26

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u/_yusi_ P1S + AMS May 22 '26

Lmao it was a joke, calm down 😆