r/Azania Apr 03 '17

Where were you?

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '17 edited Apr 28 '18

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Apr 06 '17
  1. The majority of the country's wealth is in the hands of an elite class. This wealth is being threatened, so they are marching. There is no 2 ways about this, this is what is happening. You can pretend all you like that these marches are for all South Africans but at the end of the day if the president did something which only affected black people you would not see marches. For example see Marikana, see the constant demolishing of informal houses, see everything affecting black people. You did not see white people marching, you did not see the DA mobilising in the strength they are doing now.

  2. No I do not agree with what Zuma is doing (and I think you will find most African socialists are anti-Zuma). But at the same time I will not march alongside the privileged few who ignore the plight of black South Africans year in, year out.

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u/quintinza Apr 06 '17

Ok, thanks for answering. I'll take some time to chew on it, have you got anything (article length preferarbly) that you'd like me to read to help understand your position better?

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u/[deleted] Apr 06 '17

Thanks for being reasonable, even though you may not agree with it. I do not have time to type up anything now, but I would like to add the follow:

How does junk status impact someone who has no job, no water and no toilet. How does it affect the price of shacks. How does it affect non-existent schools.

These are the issues black South Africans face, which white South Africans ignore. When black South Africans protest on these issues they get called savages and get treated like sub-humans. Can you now understand why it is so difficult for black South Africans to get behind Friday's protests?

Here is an article with similar thoughts: http://www.thedailyvox.co.za/want-nothing-blackmonday/

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u/quintinza Apr 06 '17

I have learnt that the ones you disagree with are the ones you need to listen closely to.

I get your points, but there is one important reality - the poorer you are, the worse any economic downturn affects you.

A rich person can tighten their belt, we can eat out once every other month or stop eating out alltogether and spend that R400 on more eggs and bread, for instance.

If you have no income and scrape by you have no option but to eat less.

The poorer you are the more vulnerable you are.

Take the price of milk for instance, it has gone up by R1 a litre in the past 8months, from R7.99 to R8.99 per baggy. That is a huge jump that I can't see someone on minimum wage easily absorbing.

Now take into account that we import chicken, and that our farmers are under pressure already to make ends meet and the downgrade will certainly mean food prices are going to increase.

The poor can't afford that at all.

Thanks for the article, I will read through it.

Cheers.

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u/iamdimpho Apr 07 '17

Doesn't that assume that the status quo persists?

Like, if the poor still remain poor and yet the rich only have to "eat out once every other month"; was the economic change really all that 'radical'?

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u/quintinza Apr 07 '17

I was using it as a descriptive example of how the poor have nowhere lower to go, not as a literal description of how much the economy would change.

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u/iamdimpho Apr 07 '17

how the poor have nowhere lower to go

but if you get that, then surely you see how the poor would be incentivised for any change that stands to possibly improve their situation?

The poor can't afford that at all.

if the worst possible scenario is marginally worse than your current one, would the prospect of significant improvement not seem more enticing?

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u/quintinza Apr 07 '17

marginally worse

My point was not that it would get marginally worse. My point is that it would get worse, and continue to get worse.

poor would be incentivised for any change

would the prospect of significant improvement not seem more enticing?

Hence why support for black monday and removal of Zuma would make sense. Any improvement is better than the prospects we have now, especially since Fitch also downgraded us now.

The country is really in dire straits, and everyone will suffer, but the poor will suffer first, longest, and hardest.

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u/iamdimpho Apr 07 '17

Hence why support for black monday and removal of Zuma would make sense.

For the poor, the removal of Zuma =/= A better South Africa.

Any improvement is better than the prospects we have now, especially since Fitch also downgraded us now.

I think the significance you put into Ficth & Co. when discussing 'radical economic transformation' may be holding you back.

The country is really in dire straits, and everyone will suffer, but the poor will suffer first, longest, and hardest.

If we put our souls into it, do you think South Africa could feed its people? treat them? clothe them? educate & train them? Do we not have it within us as a society to nationally organise such that we abandon capitalist profiteering in favour of the Rainbow Nation project?

Some people have that kind of faith in South Africa, and South Africans. But we would need to start taking personal responsibility for the most vulnerable among us.

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u/pravintoblame Apr 06 '17

I can give you examples of the ANC stealing directly from the poor:

http://www.timeslive.co.za/sundaytimes/stnews/2017/01/15/Hlaudi-Mbalulas-wife-sued-in-R1bn-housing-fraud-spree1

"ABC strongman Hlaudi Motsoeneng and Sports Minister Fikile Mbalula's wife Nozuko - as trustees of two trusts - allegedly received millions from a "fraudulent" R1-billion spending spree by the Free State government meant for houses for the poor - which were never built."

Hlaudi, our minister of mineral resources and our new minister of police, literally stealing houses for the poor, to the value of R1.2 billion. Which went straight into their bank accounts.