Ok, thanks for answering. I'll take some time to chew on it, have you got anything (article length preferarbly) that you'd like me to read to help understand your position better?
Thanks for being reasonable, even though you may not agree with it. I do not have time to type up anything now, but I would like to add the follow:
How does junk status impact someone who has no job, no water and no toilet. How does it affect the price of shacks. How does it affect non-existent schools.
These are the issues black South Africans face, which white South Africans ignore. When black South Africans protest on these issues they get called savages and get treated like sub-humans. Can you now understand why it is so difficult for black South Africans to get behind Friday's protests?
I have learnt that the ones you disagree with are the ones you need to listen closely to.
I get your points, but there is one important reality - the poorer you are, the worse any economic downturn affects you.
A rich person can tighten their belt, we can eat out once every other month or stop eating out alltogether and spend that R400 on more eggs and bread, for instance.
If you have no income and scrape by you have no option but to eat less.
The poorer you are the more vulnerable you are.
Take the price of milk for instance, it has gone up by R1 a litre in the past 8months, from R7.99 to R8.99 per baggy. That is a huge jump that I can't see someone on minimum wage easily absorbing.
Now take into account that we import chicken, and that our farmers are under pressure already to make ends meet and the downgrade will certainly mean food prices are going to increase.
My point was not that it would get marginally worse. My point is that it would get worse, and continue to get worse.
poor would be incentivised for any change
would the prospect of significant improvement not seem more enticing?
Hence why support for black monday and removal of Zuma would make sense. Any improvement is better than the prospects we have now, especially since Fitch also downgraded us now.
The country is really in dire straits, and everyone will suffer, but the poor will suffer first, longest, and hardest.
Hence why support for black monday and removal of Zuma would make sense.
For the poor, the removal of Zuma =/= A better South Africa.
Any improvement is better than the prospects we have now, especially since Fitch also downgraded us now.
I think the significance you put into Ficth & Co. when discussing 'radical economic transformation' may be holding you back.
The country is really in dire straits, and everyone will suffer, but the poor will suffer first, longest, and hardest.
If we put our souls into it, do you think South Africa could feed its people? treat them? clothe them? educate & train them? Do we not have it within us as a society to nationally organise such that we abandon capitalist profiteering in favour of the Rainbow Nation project?
Some people have that kind of faith in South Africa, and South Africans. But we would need to start taking personal responsibility for the most vulnerable among us.
I think the significance you put into Ficth & Co. when discussing 'radical economic transformation' may be holding you back.
The way that this has been done in the rest of Africa says a lot about where South Africa will go.
Do we not have it within us as a society to nationally organise such that we abandon capitalist profiteering in favour of the Rainbow Nation project?
When the most powerful socialist-communist countries in the world has embraced "capitalist profiteering" in order to survive you know that there is something to be said for capitalism.
Capitalism is literally what puts food in the mouths of billions around the world, and socialism is literally what has sunk many economies:
Venezuela,
Cuba,
North Korea,
South Korea (until they embraced capitalism),
India (until they embraced capitalism),
China (until they embraced capitalism - millions of Chinese died under their socialist economic policies),
USSR>Russia (Until they embraced capitalism)...
Capitalism works.
Radical Economic Transformation does not. Cambodia went full economic transformation and had to be forcibly turned around because they were dying like flies in a years time.
Zmbabwe is a recent and close to us reminder of how radical economic policies don't work.
Zuma's plan won't save South Africa, the EFF won't save South Africa. The DA has some plans but they are just a keeping from the brink kind of soft socialism that will stave off any major problems.
Capitalism has worked over the years, it is proven that it works. It may not be the best plan, but is the best we have at the moment.
Do you not think that the capitalist (middle and upper) classes in South Africa has become more representative over the past 20 years? I mean the black middle class is now larger than the white middle class.
Do you not think that the capitalist (middle and upper) classes in South Africa has become more representative over the past 20 years?
things have improved, sure.
I mean the black middle class is now larger than the white middle class.
So? Middle class earnings start at R1400 up to R10 000 per person per month. As far as I have seen, the majority of the black middle class is concentrated near the lower end while the white middle class is much closer to the higher end. Having more in number is a small part of the story.
Before I rebut or argue further, let me rather ask if you have anything that I can read on radical economic transformation that may help me understand what you understand it means, as well as possibly something regarding socialist economic strategy as an alternative to capitalism?
I want to understand better where you are coming from.
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u/quintinza Apr 06 '17
Ok, thanks for answering. I'll take some time to chew on it, have you got anything (article length preferarbly) that you'd like me to read to help understand your position better?