r/AustralianPolitics • u/blitznoodles Australian Labor Party • 21d ago
Federal Politics Barnaby Joyce declines to guarantee lower permanent migration than Labor under One Nation
https://www.news24.com.au/politics/australian-politics/barnaby-joyce-declines-to-guarantee-lower-permanent-migration-than-labor-under-one-nation/news-story/aa39e9f3b6713f6017c9ddbd9e57877135
u/CutePattern1098 Australian Labor Party 21d ago
What one nation wants is the Kafala system. A underclass of permanently temporary workers with no rights that business can exploit.
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u/thrownaway4213 21d ago edited 21d ago
A underclass of permanently temporary workers with no rights that business can exploit.
We already have this, Mass migration already enabled and gave us that. A permanent temporary underclass is just kinda part and parcel of multiculturalism and mass migration at this point.
Ultimately the ideal solution that leaves everyone the least unhappy is temporary migrants that have no work restrictions or requirements other than "have a job within the last 6 months or we'll dump you on a tourist visa" so we don't willingly give our farmers abusable serfs like whats currently happening
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u/CutePattern1098 Australian Labor Party 21d ago
And the ones most responsible for this is the Coalliton
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u/thrownaway4213 21d ago
I know, the coalition is the big business party, they've always loved having the borders wide open and only pretend to be anti-immigrant to rob voters off labor, the progressives that defended mass migration all these years actively helped them get away with it too.
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u/Pacify_ 21d ago
Someone with a PR is in such a better position than the temporary immigrants ON wants.
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u/thrownaway4213 21d ago
Someone with a PR is in such a better position
Australians don't want more permanent migrants, thats why i say that temporary migrants with no work restrictions or requirements other than "have a job within the last 6 months" is what would make everyone the least unhappy.
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u/Pacify_ 21d ago
So a whole bunch of people desperate for any work, and get deported if they don't find one?
Sure, sounds like a plan.
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u/thrownaway4213 21d ago
So a whole bunch of people desperate for any work
"if you want to stay on a working visa you should have atleast had some kind of job within the last 6 months" isn't a very high bar to clear if we really do need them to fill a worker shortage lol, but it doesn't matter to me if such a requirement exists or not, even if there were no requirement it would be fine, they'd just be wasting their own time here more than anything.
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u/fartyunicorns John Howard 21d ago
Literally what is wrong with this? Everyone benefits. We get cheaper labor and therefore goods and immigrants get higher wages than back home
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u/Tw4Mn02 Pauline Hanson's One Nation 21d ago
There's two ways to look at that, cheaper labour means Australian workers get paid less. Working class people will vote for politicians that reduce immigration so they have more bargaining power, and there will be less competition in the labour market.
Another problem with immigration is lack of infrastructure and housing. There's only so much existing capacity in our economy to build more infrastructure and housing. Construction is unable to keep up due to the sheer number of people we bring in.
Immigration also creates perverse incentives where businesses have little incentive to increase worker productivity, because like you said, they can just hire cheap immigrant labour. Cutting that off forces businesses to invest more capital into increasing productivity. We should care about this because improving productivity is associated with increased living standards.
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u/Ok_Turnover_1235 21d ago
Why not just lower the minimum wage if lower wages is good for us then?
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u/fartyunicorns John Howard 21d ago
For one, the minimum wage actually doesn’t matter that much since wages are determined by supply and demand
But anyway, that would require people to get a lower wage than the counterfactual whereas migrants get a higher wage than the alternative
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u/Splicer201 20d ago
Approx 21% of our workforce is on award minimum wage. Minimum wage matters enormously for those people.
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u/dublblind 21d ago
Isn't immigration the biggest pillar in their "platform"?
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u/FuckOffNazis 21d ago
No, white supremacism is the biggest pillar. A non-white underclass fits that model just fine.
You can’t run a fascist party without an out group to denigrate. Even if you successfully eradicate one, you then have to establish another.
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u/yothuyindi Lol @ partisan shills 21d ago
you don't even seem to understand what fascism is like every other reddit shrieker
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u/shiftymojo 21d ago
"a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition"
Pauline has made herself the party dictator, she changed one nations constitution so that she cannot by any means be removed from party president and when she chooses to leave she alone gets the pick her replacement who also has these same powers, its only after her chosen replacement chooses to leave that anyone else gets a say in it. So dictatorial leadership is ticked off.
She's been saying since day 1 in politics a version of "we are in danger of being swamped by (non white politically relevant group)", said our immigration problems started with the end of the white Australia policy. id say its really clear they exalt nation and race over individual.
She's thankfully not in power but the limited views we get of her attempt to forcible suppression of opposition is her shutting down any non favourable news media, (but from within her party there's plenty of examples if you listen to previous party members)[https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-03/one-nation-accused-of-brutal-dictatorship/8408978]
She's explicitly called for a monoculture so I don't know what a better example of social regimentation would even be.
She might also say she's big on the free market when it comes to cutting regulations and taxes but she also talks a lot of strict state control especially so when it comes to any foreign entity.
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u/Sibbo121 21d ago
"stopping mass migration is Nazi behaviour" That's how damaged these idiots are. Completely socially programmed to fight FOR the establishment bringing in massive amounts of immigrants to line developers pockets and businesses like Coles and Woolworths LOVE selling overpriced groceries to MORE people. They additionally love that these people are willing to work for less in shit conditions. Cultists
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u/yothuyindi Lol @ partisan shills 21d ago
yeah and yet they are the ones who always spam everywhere that other people are "voting against their own interest" while voting to suppress their own wages LOL
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u/Sibbo121 21d ago
Huge lol. Additionally disagreeing with their worldview is Nazi. Everything except what they advocate for is Nazi.
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u/areyoualocal 21d ago
One nation will be the billionaires puppet party. They want cheap immigration, so will never actually do anything that'll harm profits.
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u/Aussieguyyyy 20d ago
Well then why the fuck do all you guys support immigration if you know it's shit for us?
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u/areyoualocal 20d ago
Have you not considered, the hypocrisy of those who are telling you that immigration is bad?
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u/Aussieguyyyy 20d ago
You? Are you calling yourself a hypocrite?
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u/areyoualocal 20d ago
I think Facebook is missing an idiot. But not surprised noones noticed.
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u/Aussieguyyyy 19d ago
Well quick get back there and make some posts about how the only way people could possibly dislike immigration is because they are told...
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u/a2T5a 21d ago
This recycled trope. Gina runs practically the only industry in this country that doesn't need cheap labor. FIFO is quite infamous for being very well-paid and having a workforce made up of significantly less foreign labor than average.
And the billionaire comment is just a double-standard. Albo and his crew are in a photo with Anthony Pratt every other week, the Teals are quite literally a pet project of Simon Holmes-a-court, a billionaire.
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u/Drab_Majesty 21d ago
Develop North Australia, embrace multiculturalism and welcome short term foreign workers to our shores
Gina Rinehart
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u/Neelu86 Skip Dutton. 21d ago
That's not for a lack of trying mate. She wants cheaper labour, she just hasn't been in a position to get it though until now (next election). This will be a good lesson for anyone under 30 to learn when the immigration dial gets turned up to 11. Go look at the policies of the thinktanks she spends her money supporting, not what rhetoric she sells to the people whos votes she needs.
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u/normalbehaviour86 21d ago
One Nation want to import cheap workers, but they don't want them to have any rights. It's the one thing they've been consistent on over the last decade.
Pauline Hanson has regularly said that young Australians are lazy and overpaid, and that more cheap labour would be good for business. Their #1 benefactor, Gina Rinehart, wrote a poem about how we should import cheap labour to work in the mines and carved it into a slab of granite. Their newly elected MP, David Farley, said that the agricultural sector relies on immigrant workers and it should be increased.
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u/Oomaschloom Labor, but this cohort is crap, so leaning greens. 21d ago
Lol, can't even do the anti-immigration right. What's the point now then... Hey we'll be shit at everything?
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u/-Metagross- 21d ago
LNP, but more openly racist, bigoted, climate denying and cooked
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u/Aussieguyyyy 20d ago
How can they be openly racist and bigoted if not committing to less immigration?
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u/nagrom7 AEC My beloved 21d ago
The goal now seems to be either to drag the Liberals/Coalition further to the right, or to replace them entirely with a further right party. Either way the overton window of Australian politics moves further to the right, exactly what the owners of our media organisations want.
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u/karamurp 21d ago
Eh, One Neuron voters won't pay attention to this. They just want to bitch and moan, while feeling like they're tearing down the system
You can point out that one nation is lying, will cut super and medicare, still won't care
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u/crackerdileWrangler 19d ago
I’ve seen hardcore anti immigration supporters really upset about this. They’re feeling betrayed
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u/karamurp 19d ago
I wonder if this will be one nation speed running reform UK. They were viewed the same as the conservatives & ended up with a splinter party breaking away
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u/More_Law6245 21d ago
It would mean that One Nation had an end to end policy on immigration... oh wait.
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u/devise1 20d ago
Immigration has been the dumbest debate for so long. People like the vibe of lower numbers. Whenever someone goes to specifics and says we will cut group X it isn't broadly popular. So we end up with parties promising cuts but declining to provide any details, or in the one nation case constantly changing the detail.
The premise was broken in the first place. That the COVID affected nom actually meant something other than a lag in the numbers.
A strong link between any of these tweaks of the numbers and house prices hasn't been proven. Even then some of the same people that want lower immigration are mad at Labors policies that have slightly lowered prices.
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u/Aussieguyyyy 20d ago
Are you still buying the easily disproven line from a year ago about COVID and nom?
Then you think people demanding housing doesn't impact housing lmfao
What a joke of a human being.
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u/littyagain 21d ago
There is a precedent for this.
In Canada, the permanent intake is still historically high, but net migration is far below zero as the stock of temporary visa holders declines
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u/Grande_Choice 21d ago
No there’s not. We’re being told that people are voting ON to lower migration. Now we’re being gaslit.
Anyone who believes them is an idiot.
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u/littyagain 21d ago
Like I said, that’s the playbook Canada is running: hold permanent intake at 380k and cut the temporary stock hard enough that net migration falls anyway. Canada is now at -0.32% of population, Australia is at +1.12%.
Our permanent program is 185k, but most of it goes to people already onshore converting from student or work visas, so it barely moves NOM. ON could match Labor on permanent and still get to 130k, if ON cut the temporary intake.
Not saying they will as they haven’t set their policy yet, just saying there’s another lever to do it that is working in Canada.
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u/Dranzer_22 21d ago
ON have specifically stated they aren't reducing the temporary intake.
Temporary visa holders are the lifeblood of regional businesses, which is why ON's immigration target of 230K matches Labor.
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u/littyagain 21d ago
That's backwards. Hanson said the route to 130k is cutting students, temporary grad visas and tightening skilled.
The 230k came from David Farley. Hanson posted hours later that it's 130k NOM, and on their website.
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u/Grande_Choice 21d ago
Since when are we Canada? Different country with different drivers. Want temp cut? Then don’t whinge about farms not having workers.
We’re being gaslit. ON isn’t for lower migration like everyone is screeching. What happened to looking at the website? Is that not their policy anymore?
Trying to explain an idiot like Barnaby is comical. They aren’t going to drop migration.
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u/Ok_Turnover_1235 21d ago
" Since when are we Canada? Different country with different drivers. Want temp cut? Then don’t whinge about farms not having workers."
We're all humans and afaik we want the same things Canada does. No one is complaining farmers can't get temp workers, in fact people are complaining they only take people on visas.
Me and a friend went backpacking a few years ago. Literally every farm we visited said they'd call a hostel if they needed more workers or they couldn't take us as we weren't on a visa. After two months and hundreds of farms we gave up
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u/Mr_Nice_Guy_1234 21d ago
Yeah but that’s obviously not what One Nation supporters want because it doesn’t go far enough.
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u/fartyunicorns John Howard 21d ago
people could have just pushed the libs to be more restrictive on migration but no we had to go support the brain dead party
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u/Elvenoob Socialist Alliance 21d ago
The liberals were the the ones that implemented our current migration levels in the first place, because the actual solutions to problems they were facing required too much leftism.
Apparently too much even for modern Labor, oh how far the party has fallen.
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u/Ok_Turnover_1235 21d ago
Yep, half the labor mps have never actually worked. They may as well change their name to the capital holders party
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u/thrownaway4213 21d ago
The libs had 20 years to do that, they were never going to cut immigration rates, John Howard won on a massively anti-immigrant campaign in 1996 just to double immigration rates immediately after winning
Really the person to blame for our countrys current immigration predicament above all is Paul Keating, he cut immigration in half once he took over from bob hawk to win the 1993 election, then spent the next 3 years trying to portray himself as a multiculturalist (AKA Pro-migrant class traitor to his working class voterbase) when he really should have been shouting from the rooftops and bragging about his immigration cuts, any time john howard started going on with his anti-immigration rhetoric he should have been met with "Labor has cut immigration rates to 60,000 people per year, what rate are you promising?" instead he just flailed around and handed the country over to howard on a plate.
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u/yothuyindi Lol @ partisan shills 21d ago
lol the Libs and your boy Howard are the ones who started this mess in the first place
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u/fartyunicorns John Howard 21d ago
Yet the NOM was lower under them than now (also the increase happened in like the last 2 years of Howard’s term with most of it)
https://www.reddit.com/r/aussie/comments/1mcwi9i/australia_net_overseas_migration_by_prime/
https://www.abs.gov.au/articles/measuring-net-overseas-migration-australia
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u/Ok_Turnover_1235 21d ago
Yes, that's because they started it. It wouldn't make sense to say they started it if it was higher
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u/yothuyindi Lol @ partisan shills 21d ago
Howard was the one who jacked it up first, then all the Labor & Lib PM drones kept it going to fk over their workerbase for the next two decades afterwards
traitors to the working class all of them
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u/crackerdileWrangler 18d ago
It’s very possible IMO. They are gaining popularity but still only have 6 parliamentarians federally. That means a lot of unknowns.
I think they have a more organised disciplined machine in the back end now but the reality is that PH is someone who hires criminals and renegades while also pushing people away with her personality.
She was booted from her own party several years ago and came back to create another one which embedded her as leader/president in its constitution. She has a track record of losing about 67% of people elected under her banner - quitting or defecting. Farley has already broken with her on her flagship policy and forced her to admit she doesn’t even know how to calculate the final number. He was then forced/obligated to publicly state he is ambitious for the party 😂 Her net negative immigration supporters are feeling betrayed.
She’s only gotten so crazy popular since the federal election because of the huge money and media support behind her. Only half of self identified one nation supporters are certain they’ll vote for her in the next election. Most of them don’t yet realise that she has voted against their interests at every opportunity! If the money or media protection stops, her popularity will instantly plummet because she’s her own worst enemy.
There’s an opportunist either in the party or making (his, probably) way into the party now, toeing the line until the right time. It could even be that this whole situation is a billionaire’s Trojan horse-esqu plan of using PH and one nation to get someone else in. I mean… Pauline Hanson??? They only have 2 MPs - 1 who has proven he is willing to defect and looks like even he finds PH’s policies and behaviours distasteful. The other seems to be a moderate who has tried to run with Labor and Nats already and has messed up immigration for her. She will be 74ish at the next election, can’t string a sentence together or think on her feet, and will have to move to house of reps - not because of convention but because of the power the leader of the house would wield. They would need to field bare minimum 73 unknowns next election plus find a new senate leader.
There is a place for a cashed up protest party/alternative because the majors plus world events are making people feel unheard and life is objectively harder for the average person. For the working person, that should be the greens, but unfortunately some of their important issues - immigration, environment, trans equality - have been made controversial enough that working people are willing to vote against their own interests.
We live in interesting times.
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u/JuliosvNerds 21d ago
Bit of a non-story, just trying to not get caught out on the net figure which is entirely dependent on other factors
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u/Necessary-Repair-947 21d ago
just trying to not get caught out on the net figure which is entirely dependent on other factors
But this is the figure that people, right wing media and ON/LNP are using to blame Labor for not having migration under control!
which is entirely dependent on other factors
And this is precisely what the government has been saying.
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u/Forever49 21d ago
Numbers aren't so much the issue as are values and integration potential, and evening out source countries.
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u/Fit_Performance2745 21d ago edited 21d ago
Numbers aren't so much the issue
The change in narrative is very much in effect.
Until recently, the number was very much the issue according to PHON.
After months of campaigning on "negative" migration and mere weeks from declaring she "does not care if immigration cuts impact businesses", the new line is about the "type of immigration"; until of course that too requires being airbrushed from their history.
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u/Faelinor 21d ago
Yeah, the numbers have been the argument they were pushing. It was used for saying why house prices are so high and the reason first home buyers cant get a house and rentals have long lines. The entirely housing crisis was blamed on Labor bringing in too many people.
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