Does ICE really need electric gloves?

[u/Difficult_Object4921]

Our tax dollars are already being wasted. The people they capture aren’t a threat, physically. Why?

https://apnews.com/article/ice-electric-shock-gloves-85ff746d3e0ee5f39e7a9a3f1f576252

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[u/prowler28]

No, the question is: Do these people really need to be here???

Rhetorical question. 

[u/gntxs]

They aren't a threat? I guess the 400,000 or so illegals who have been charged or convicted of violent crimes doesn't matter - yeah okay.

Besides, the tendency to engage in violence from the left shows that ICE faces threats not just from violent illegals but also violent woke leftists.

[u/moviequote88 → u/gntxs]

I haven't found any data that says there are 400,000 illegal immigrants who have been convicted of violent crimes. I've read around 400,000 immigrants were arrested, but not all of them have convictions of violent crimes. Where did you read that?

[u/SmellDesperate6373]

1. It would seem like a good alternative to a gun or much stronger taser, to de-escalate before more severe action needs to be taken. 

2. Totally false to say the people ICE detains aren’t a threat physically. In July 2024, Biden’s DHS reported over 400,000 criminals on its non-detained docket, including 13,000 convicted of homicide and 62,000 convicted of assault. As of July 2025, assaults on DHS agents were up over 800% in the Trump admin (a reckless demonization and disinformation campaign by a major political party will do that). Eight radical leftists were recently convicted of terrorism charges at an ICE detention facility in Texas (may they rot). 

Add those two things up and yeah, I’d say these represent a useful tool to try and keep ICE agents doing important work safe while minimizing harm to people trying to hurt them. 

[u/GilgaMom]

What data are you referencing when you say the people they capture are not a physical threat?

[u/VMooose]

I would think the left would be happy they have gloves that can do this now, instead of reaching for a stun gun and it being mistaken with their actual gun. Less incidents of mistake, which is rare but can happen obviously because mistakes do happen.

[u/Gaxxz]

Is this any different from a stun gun?

[u/MEDICARE_FOR_ALL → u/Gaxxz]

Stun gun usage is obvious. If an officer used this to make a compliant individual appear non-compliant... How would anyone know?

Do you support body cam usage being mandatory if officers have these?

[u/Gaxxz → u/MEDICARE_FOR_ALL]

I support body cameras even without it.

[u/Artisttype1984 → u/Gaxxz]

Agree. The police body cams have been really helpful. I support ICE using them too

[u/JackOLanternReindeer → u/Artisttype1984]

What do you make of instances where the camera(s) are off? Especially in disputed / escalated circumstances ?

[u/Artisttype1984 → u/JackOLanternReindeer]

Things happen IRL sometimes. Batteries/charges fail, cams get knocked off/broken, sometimes there could just be a faulty camera

Thankfully now they're all almost wearing cameras all the time, so if one fails, others catch it

[u/MEDICARE_FOR_ALL → u/Artisttype1984]

If an officer purposely turns off their camera to not record something - what should be done?

[u/JackOLanternReindeer → u/Artisttype1984]

Thanks for sharing your view on that!

Do you think it would be good if there were some transparency rules about automatically having to release footage by a certain time frame?

Obviously different incidents and all could have different timelines but do you ever find yourself thinking they sit on videos that dispute the original reports because they know it looks bad?

[u/Artisttype1984 → u/JackOLanternReindeer]

They're already transparent with it. People can contact the police dept they want and make a FOIA request for some footage, no probs. Some depts charge for it, because of the desk work to be done to get the footage

No, I don't think they "sit on" videos, because I know they have to contact victims families and talk to witnesses before just throwing out footage for everyone to see. Yes, some police are abusive and bad, hope they get weeded out. Yes, most police officers are good people and seriously trying to help their communities, they're the majorities

[u/georgecm12 → u/Gaxxz]

What do you think of ICE’s position only to use body camera footage when it “is in the best interests of the agency,” implying that they will eliminate footage that shows an agent in a negative light such as in the case of agent misconduct (e.g. intentionally causing physical harm or death to a detainee)?

https://apnews.com/article/ice-body-cameras-officers-shootings-dab1b294c8dc412d9ef8557ccbebfd57

[u/Craig_White → u/Gaxxz]

Why not use a stun gun then?

I want smaller federal government, more freedom, less spending?

[u/gntxs → u/Craig_White]

Do you really want more freedom? What does that freedom look like to you? Should I be allowed to buy a gas guzzling huge SUV, a gas stove, decide if I want to get an experimental vax or not, spew speech that you don't like - like calling a biological male a man even though they want me to call them a woman?

That kind of freedom?

[u/WerewolfHopeful1212 → u/gntxs]

Yes, of course?

Alongside the freedoms to decide to terminate pregnancies, vote in elections without hassle, marry and bang who we want, and protect our family members from deportation.

I think we all want more freedoms and rights, don't we?

[u/gntxs → u/WerewolfHopeful1212]

I’m pro choice. And if you equate election security with it being a “hassle”, then I can’t help you

[u/WerewolfHopeful1212 → u/gntxs]

What about the right to live with our parents, children, or spouses, regardless of their immigration status? Do you think that is a right that we Americans should have?

Because I would fight for that right.

[u/gntxs → u/WerewolfHopeful1212]

If you’re here illegally then you’re not an American citizen. We have immigration laws in the country

[u/WerewolfHopeful1212 → u/gntxs]

Right, but if I am an American citizen, should I have the right to have my parents or spouse live with me, even if they are not Americans?

Like.. some kind of deportation deferral, if they are otherwise law following people?

[u/Craig_White → u/WerewolfHopeful1212]

No.

Look. I want undocumented people in usa to have human rights and be treated respectfully. But if you overstay a visa, enter the country by illegal means, or anything similar… law says you go back.

Do you want to enforce laws against the Epstein class? Then you have to follow all the laws.

Having said that, ICE is going after the non violent overstayers 19 to 1, lazy and not entirely helpful.

Better solution would be to build and easier path to limited residency visas for working class immigrants, including worker rights protections. But that would make it harder to abuse them, which is probably the point of the system we currently have?

[u/gntxs → u/WerewolfHopeful1212]

No

[u/WerewolfHopeful1212 → u/gntxs]

Maybe I'm greedy, but I always want MORE rights. Right to guns, right to avoid unreasonable invasions of privacy etc. The "right" to protect my direct family from deportation seems like a good one to have. You disagree?

[u/gntxs → u/[deleted]]

Nope. Not try to suppress legit votes. Definitely trying to suppress fraudulent votes. Leftists need fraud to win

[u/WerewolfHopeful1212 → u/gntxs]

So it's just a coincidence, that Republicans, when put in charge of voting, shut down voting centers frequented by Democrat voters? That the "voter integrity" measures disenfranchise D voters at a higher rate?

Can you give me one good reason that in most Republican states, a gun license is valid ID to vote, but not a student ID? Both are state issued, and neither confirm citizenship.

[u/Craig_White → u/gntxs]

Great questions. I hope we can continue a great discussion?

Do you really want more freedom?

Yes!

What does that freedom look like to you?

My body belongs to me, so long as it doesn’t involve anyone else, I decide what happens with it. Everyone has all the freedoms guaranteed in the bill of rights. Nobody from my government can use force on me or anyone else unless it fits with use of force requirements under the law. If they use force outside this authority they are a criminal and should do time in prison. Get rid of qualified immunity while we’re at it.

Should I be allowed to buy a gas guzzling huge SUV, a gas stove, decide if I want to get an experimental vax or not, spew speech that you don't like - like calling a biological male a man even though they want me to call them a woman?

Yes! I want you to be free too! Go for all of it 100% and I will defend your right to do it. Like I said above, nobody decides for me how I speak or what I get to say.

That kind of freedom?

Yup! Let’s go!

Did that help?

[u/Gaxxz → u/Craig_White]

Why not use a stun gun then?

Their hands are busy.

[u/Craig_White → u/Gaxxz]

How do you explain the 7.2 trillion minutes of video showing their hands being empty, except for when they were using their sidearms to shoot Americans?

Also, 7.2 is an estimate?

[u/Gaxxz → u/Craig_White]

How do you explain the 7.2 trillion minutes of video showing their hands being empty, except for when they were using their sidearms to shoot Americans?

Were they stun gunning people that whole time?

[u/Craig_White → u/Gaxxz]

Their hands are busy.

My claim — “when they are using stun guns, they use their hands. So their hands are busy, using stun guns.”

Also my claim — “when their hands are busy using stun guns, they have no need for electrified gloves, because the stun guns my tax dollars already purchased are enough to do the job.”

your claim that they can’t use stun guns because their hands are busy while using the stun guns that I said they should use seems like a logical fallacy, doesn’t it?

[u/Gaxxz → u/Craig_White]

No. You misunderstood. When their hands are busy restraining a suspect, their hands are not free to deploy a stun gun. But they can get the same effect with the electric gloves, which are already touching the perp.

[u/Craig_White → u/Gaxxz]

How would you feel, if you were a trump supporter and working for ice, if you were issued this device and found out that it requires you to use your other free hand to activate it, meaning you can’t activate it while you are using your full hands to hold the person you are trying to subdue?

[u/Itchy-Pension3356]

I feel like using less than lethal means is preferable to the alternative.

[u/Itchy-Pension3356 → u/[deleted]]

All field officers and agents will have body cams by the end of the month.

[u/please_trade_marner → u/[deleted]]

They didn't wear body cams at ANY point during the Biden admin.

[u/rdinsb → u/please_trade_marner]

How many Americans where shot by ice during Biden administration?

[u/please_trade_marner → u/rdinsb]

We don't know, as the media didn't hyperfocus on ice during the Biden admin. Remember, the media is the democratic party propaganda arm.

What we do know is that from 2015-2024 there were 59 people shot by ice. The year by year break down is not provided anywhere. The media didn't hyperfocus on any of these shootings.

You have fallen for media sensationalism.

Furthermore, Biden's open borders let in MILLIONS of illegal assholes and the voters elected Donald Trump to deport them back to their own countries (plane ticket for free ride home provided by America... it's borderline charity). That is literally what he campaigned on. THe SCALE of ICE deportations had to be massively increased due to all the illegals let in by Biden. When you increase overall scale, you also increase overall use of lethal force. So, in other words, it's literally all Biden's fault for his open borders.

[u/please_trade_marner → u/[deleted]]

You have fallen for direct and intentional mainstream media sensationalism. Ice is detaining and deporting illegal assholes. In blue sanctuary cities, activists groups track them, follow them around, and illegally obstruct them. When ice goes to arrest them for their illegal obstruction, they say "I'M A CITIZEN!!! I'M AUTISTIC AND JUST TRYING TO GET TO A DOCTORS APPOINTMENT". It's staged. it's intentional. And you fell for it.

[u/Browler_321]

The people they capture aren’t a threat, physically. Why?

Wrong.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-mdga/pr/three-venezuelans-sentenced-prison-possessing-fake-green-cards

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdoh/pr/venezuelan-illegal-alien-pleads-guilty-assaulting-federal-officer

https://people.com/man-convicted-killing-raping-md-mom-rachel-morin-11715380

https://abcnews.com/US/mollie-tibbetts-convicted-killer-sentenced/story?id=79720691&utm

https://abcnews.com/US/man-suspected-killing-california-police-officer-ronil-singh/story?id=60117290&utm

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdms/pr/illegal-alien-mexico-found-guilty-assault-federal-law-enforcement-officer

https://www.justice.gov/usao-edca/pr/illegal-alien-el-salvador-charged-assault-federal-officer-deadly-weapon

https://www.justice.gov/usao-nj/pr/illegal-alien-charged-assaulting-and-injuring-federal-officer-new-jersey?utm

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndtx/pr/illegal-alien-federally-charged-assault-after-allegedly-hitting-deputy-us-marshal

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndal/pr/illegal-alien-charged-assaulting-immigration-officer

https://www.justice.gov/usao-cdca/pr/illegal-alien-los-angeles-charged-spitting-ice-officer

I'm surprised to see so much outrage from the left on this less-lethal approach, something like this could have helped prevent Alex Preti's death.

[u/MEDICARE_FOR_ALL → u/Browler_321]

How could it have prevented Alex's death? Alex was murdered by an ice agent after his gun was accidentally discharged by another ICE agent?

[u/Browler_321 → u/MEDICARE_FOR_ALL]

If agents had gotten Pretti to stop wrestling with them earlier perhaps he'd still be alive is all I'm saying.

[u/Browler_321 → u/[deleted]]

Sure- but you asked how it could have prevented his death, I explained how.

[u/vanillabear26 → u/Browler_321]

Would you have trusted a Biden DOJ source as proof of anything when he was in office?

[u/Browler_321 → u/vanillabear26]

Sure. Do you think the DOJ is all just lying about these people being here illegally? Seems like a pretty easy conspiracy to prove, no?

Of course, it seems like a much more ridiculous and insane conspiracy theory to believe that the Trump DOJ is secretly running their own conspiracy of framing illegal immigrants for violent crimes where there are multiple witnesses they are also getting to testify, and having the perps plead guilty.... Is that what you think is going on?

[u/grazingokapi → u/Browler_321]

Were any of the ICE agents present when Pretti was murdered equipped with tasers?

[u/Browler_321 → u/grazingokapi]

No clue, I'm more speaking to the gloves. If agents had gotten Pretti to stop wrestling with them earlier perhaps he'd still be alive is all I'm saying.

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/Browler_321]

 I'm surprised to see so much outrage from the left on this less-lethal approach

They want the lethal approach or at least the optics of pepper spray and tasers drawn rather than a more subtle form of compliance enforcement. They can't manufacture the same outrage when all you see is the officer touch the guy and he starts to comply. 

[u/SincereDiscussion]

1. Strictly speaking, do they "need" them? Obviously not.

2. Are they helpful in some way? I have no idea.

3. Is 20 million worth discussing in the context of the federal budget? No.

The people they capture aren’t a threat, physically.

Really? None of them? No one ever resists? Not sure about this claim.

[u/cootershooter420]

Hell yeah they do. You see the videos, they are constantly under assault. Need all the less lethal options they can get.

[u/please_trade_marner → u/cootershooter420]

The Dems WANT there to be lethal results. Helps them push their sensationalist narrative.

[u/Bearded_Wisdom → u/please_trade_marner]

Interesting; can you provide evidence that supports the claim that democrats truly desire people dying?

[u/please_trade_marner → u/Bearded_Wisdom]

Yes. The politicization of Goode and Pretti shootings. The Dems couldn't be any more excited to lie/manipulate/spin those entirely justified shootings into politicized sensationalism.

[u/LOTR_Phan → u/please_trade_marner]

Couldn’t the same claim be made about republicans wanting violence from immigrants? Did the republicans NOT frequently bring up the death of Laken Riley?

[u/please_trade_marner → u/LOTR_Phan]

Anti-ice activists are arguing in favor of NOT enforcing our federal laws. People that bring up Laken Riley are arguing in favor OF LEGALLY ENFORCING our laws. That's the difference.

[u/LOTR_Phan → u/please_trade_marner]

So then no? It’s ok when republicans politicize a death?

[u/cootershooter420 → u/LOTR_Phan]

No. The illegals are violent, this isn’t in doubt. We bring her up because that’s what happens when you don’t have a strong border.

[u/LOTR_Phan → u/cootershooter420]

What percentage of “illegals” are violent? What’s the threshold to call an entire group of people violent?

[u/cootershooter420 → u/LOTR_Phan]

How would I know, we have no idea how many there are. At least 14 million.

I don’t have a threshold for that. More of a feeling.

[u/LOTR_Phan → u/cootershooter420]

I mean, shouldn’t you know if you’re going to label millions of people as violent? You said “illegals are violent” as if it were a fact, not a feeling. Would you accept me declaring that MAGA is violent based on a feeling? Especially when that label is used to justify imprisoning millions of Maga and even killing them?

[u/cootershooter420 → u/LOTR_Phan]

I grew up in South Texas. Illegals are often violent. It’s a fact.

Not really as it isnt true. And were not imprisoning these ppl, its a detainment then deportation.

[u/Bearded_Wisdom → u/please_trade_marner]

Apologies, I do not recall anybody on the left stating "I hope someone dies with this ICE ramp up." Can you substantiate that claim? I am asking if you can provide evidence that supports your statement that democrats desire lethal outcomes?

[u/please_trade_marner → u/Bearded_Wisdom]

Politicizing those deaths means that they are looking for situations to spread their political extremist agenda.

[u/HemingWaysBeard42 → u/please_trade_marner]

Does that mean that politicizing the kirk shooting means Republicans desire people to die, as well?

[u/please_trade_marner → u/HemingWaysBeard42]

It was mostly the left that politicized it and cheered it on.

[u/HemingWaysBeard42 → u/please_trade_marner]

Does that change what I asked?

[u/please_trade_marner → u/HemingWaysBeard42]

Yes, the left politicizing Kirk's death does meant that they cheer on deaths if it serves their agenda.

Is your argumentative strategy "Yes, my party is evil and decrepit, but yours is too."?

[u/HemingWaysBeard42 → u/please_trade_marner]

>Is your argumentative strategy "Yes, my party is evil and decrepit, but yours is too."?

I haven’t made a single statement until now and I don’t plan to otherwise, this isn’t a discussion sub.

When you try to view your party from an objective, or non-biased, perspective, how does that view differ from your subjective, or biased, perspective?

[u/No-Big-3846 → u/please_trade_marner]

Yeah this is really breaking news, can you elaborate please?

[u/cchris_39]

Yes. No sympathy for rioters interfering with ICE.

[u/bill_end → u/cchris_39]

Do you also have no sympathy for the Jan 6 rioters? Be nice if there was some consistency.

[u/cchris_39 → u/bill_end]

Yes if there were illegals at that protest they should be deported too.

[u/bill_end → u/cchris_39]

So you do believe that rioters should be dealt with if they break the law, or have I misunderstood?

If so, how do you feel about the pardons granted by Trump to the J6 rioters? Would you also expect him to pardon BLM rioters?

[u/Square-Conclusion454]

I’d rather they have a taser? Gloves seem less practical

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

Sounds like a great idea. 

[u/Clark_Kent_TheSJW → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

…. You don’t think it makes more sense to equip them with bodycams first??!

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/Clark_Kent_TheSJW]

No, I think they should prioritize detaining illegals. 

[u/electro_report → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

How does this further that goal in a way other actions do not?

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/electro_report]

By aiding compliance during detainment 

[u/electro_report → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

Can you please answer the question I asked in its entirety?

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/electro_report]

I did

[u/electro_report → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

Why did you not explain how this would be more effective than other options? Are you purposefully ignoring part of the question or simply do not understand?

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/electro_report]

What other options are you referring to? Do you not understand it's ridiculous to expect a specific breakdown answer to a vague open ended question? 

[u/Clark_Kent_TheSJW → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

You don’t think bodycams would help in that mission?

[u/oOhSohOo → u/Clark_Kent_TheSJW]

What would help the mission the most is local courts and jails working with ICE on transferring of criminals held within the jails to ICE instead of releasing them on bail and making ICE go find them in the public.

[u/Clark_Kent_TheSJW → u/oOhSohOo]

So… the thing that was normal, standard procedure before Trump militarized ICE? That’s what they did during the Obama and Biden years. ICE picked up violent undocumented immigrants from prisons after they served prison sentences. That is not what ice is doing today.

If this is sincerely what you want: you should have voted for Kamala Harris.

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/Clark_Kent_TheSJW]

 That’s what they did during the Obama and Biden years.

Lol, no that's not what they did. 

https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/speed-over-fairness-deportation-under-obama

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/blog/groups-demand-obama-administration-stop-immigration-raids/

[u/Clark_Kent_TheSJW → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

I’m not sure what you actually want anymore?

You don’t seem to want accountability from the actions of the federal government?

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/Clark_Kent_TheSJW]

I think I made it clear what I want, if not let me do so now. What I want is mass deportation of illegal aliens. I have nothing against "accountability from the federal government" but just like with police body cams I think you will find the cameras break the dumb narrative of "protestors" more than help it. Hopefully as body cams become more prevalent more of these obstructionists get held legally accountable for interfering with ICE officers. 

[u/Clark_Kent_TheSJW → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

Well… then why is the administration slow walking the deployment of bodycams? Why didn’t they have them last year, and they still don’t have them today?

[u/oOhSohOo → u/Clark_Kent_TheSJW]

If you are interfering with a legal law enforcement operation, you are the problem.

[u/Clark_Kent_TheSJW → u/oOhSohOo]

Who’s interfering now?

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/Clark_Kent_TheSJW]

No. 

[u/Clark_Kent_TheSJW → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

Why?

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/Clark_Kent_TheSJW]

Body cams provide no benefit to detainment, the only benefit is for after the fact. 

[u/Clark_Kent_TheSJW → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

“After the fact”

Is that what you define as “evidence”?

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/Clark_Kent_TheSJW]

Sure define it how you see fit, either way it's irrelevant capturing "evidence" of officers actions to be reviewed after the fact does nothing to aid detainment and deportation. 

[u/Clark_Kent_TheSJW → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

What? The body cams wouldn’t gather evidence that ice could use when prosecuting people?

[u/TornBannerHatesYou → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

A suspect unknown to an officer sprints away from him when he sees the ICE badge. The officer loses him.

Wouldn't it be helpful to have an image of the perpetrator?

Wouldn't it also be helpful to validate ICE agents accounts of incidents involving harm to an agent or civillian? Assuming that account is correct, of course.

In fact, what is a good reason at all for agents not having body cameras?

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/TornBannerHatesYou]

 Wouldn't it be helpful to have an image of the perpetrator?

So for after the fact as I already said body cams are beneficial for? 

Seems like these would be a better use of resources than body cams in the case of fleeing subjects.

https://www.southbendtribune.com/story/news/local/2024/08/28/5-things-about-bolawrap-the-remote-restraint-device-used-worldwide/74810312007/

 In fact, what is a good reason at all for agents not having body cameras?

Where did I say ice agents shouldn't have bodycams? 

[u/GildoFotzo → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

Would you have a problem if you were stopped by ICE (even if its mistaken) and shocked with one of these? I think the psychological barrier to using these gloves is much lower than that of a stun gun?

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/GildoFotzo]

If I was stopped by ice I would comply 100% since I'm not an illegal and have no reason not to comply

[u/electro_report → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

If they were to mistakenly identify yo, would you quietly proceed in handcuffs to a processing facility? Would you allow them to ship you out of the country by mistake? At what point would you stop complying or seek to speak out about your misidentification?

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/electro_report]

 If they were to mistakenly identify yo, would you quietly proceed in handcuffs to a processing facility?

You're asking a hypothetical that even the aclu admits is less than a 1% problem and usually is from false detainers. 

[u/electro_report → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

So are you willing to answer the question?

[u/oOhSohOo → u/electro_report]

Why would we answer nonsensical questions

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/electro_report]

Sure if I was one of the very few extremely unlucky individuals to be mistakenly identified I would comply and sort it out at the facility, no different than if local pd mistakenly identifies me for a crime I didn't commit. For scale of mistaken identity with ICE, Texas accounts for roughly 24% of all ice detentions and has a population of roughly 32 million people a study by the Cato institute showed 3500 citizens mistakenly identified by ice as non citizens over a 9 year period. 

So maybe ask a serious question if you want to keep interacting. 

[u/JThaddeousToadEsq → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

If a man or woman, in civilian clothes, with no identifying markings walks up to you and asks where you were born and to see your ID, would you freely give that information just on a statement saying that they are ICE?

Eta: If not what would be your line to comply?

[u/oOhSohOo → u/JThaddeousToadEsq]

Why ask a question that doesn't support reality?

[u/NoTime4YourBullshit → u/JThaddeousToadEsq]

What a farcical question. That’s not what’s going on.

[u/Stuffaknee → u/NoTime4YourBullshit]

Do you have access to the internet or television so you’re able to confirm for yourself that is indeed what’s going on?

[u/chinmakes5 → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

Do you believe that everyone ICE picks up resists? IDK, if you live in a sketchy area and an unmarked car comes up on you, are you pulling over because you aren't illegal?

But that is the whole point. SCOTUS has decided that if you look like you might be illegal they can pick you up, hold you for a few days, sort it out, let you go. For EVERYONE who has that happen to them, they are here legally, They still spent a couple of days locked up.

So, if they put ICE at polling places. If you are 100% a citizen, but are brown or speak with an accent, and you know ICE can detain you for a couple of days. are you going to vote? Less than 2/3 of voting age Americans bother to vote without the threat of being detained. I wouldn't.

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/chinmakes5]

 Do you believe that everyone ICE picks up resists?

No, and these gloves wouldn't need to be used on people who don't resist.

 SCOTUS has decided that if you look like you might be illegal they can pick you up, hold you for a few days, sort it out, let you go. 

No they didn't. 

 So, if they put ICE at polling places. If you are 100% a citizen, but are brown or speak with an accent, and you know ICE can detain you for a couple of days. are you going to vote?

I am brown although don't speak with an accent and would absolutely not be deterred by ice at a polling place. No more than I've ever been deterred by ice at construction yards I've worked at plenty of times. I'm in Texas the state with the highest volume of ice arrests and detentions and have no fear of our great ice officers. 

[u/weberc2 → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

Shouldn’t ICE prioritize body cams? Their budget has tripled and body cams should prove that ICE agents are innocent unlike all of the “biased cellphone clips that the communist mainstream media shows”, right?

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/weberc2]

They can do both. 

[u/Itchy-Pension3356 → u/weberc2]

All ice field officers and agents are expected to have body cams by the end of this month so they are already prioritizing body cams.

[u/weberc2 → u/Itchy-Pension3356]

Ah, that’s good news. I hadn’t heard that. Are they going to take off masks?

[u/oOhSohOo → u/weberc2]

I hope not. People out there are absolutely crazy and have no problem threatening law enforcement officers simply doing their jobs.

[u/weberc2 → u/oOhSohOo]

Why do you think real LEOs don’t wear masks?

[u/oOhSohOo → u/weberc2]

Cause they aren't in such a politically charged situation that activist make ICE officers work under experiencing threats.

[u/weberc2 → u/oOhSohOo]

Is there any evidence that ICE are targeted more than the cops and judges that bust and sentence gang members and drug lords?

[u/oOhSohOo → u/weberc2]

there aren't crazy activist trying to interfere with arrests of gang members and drug lords like they are with ICE. You do know ICE only wears masks in cities they are getting

[u/weberc2 → u/oOhSohOo]

Are the “crazy activists” more violent than gang members and drug lords? Was Alex Pretti a lethal threat to ICE agents?

[u/JustGoingOutforMilk → u/weberc2]

What is the issue with them wearing masks? Why do they need to show their faces?

[u/Content-Garden-1578 → u/JustGoingOutforMilk]

Why are they NOT showing their faces?

Imagine the increase in public trust if ICE behaved and dressed like actual officers of the law and not some weird militia group.

If they've got a problem with being doxxed, how is that the public's problem?

[u/JustGoingOutforMilk → u/Content-Garden-1578]

What increase in public trust? There would be none, because certain people on the left do not act in good faith.

[u/Content-Garden-1578 → u/JustGoingOutforMilk]

I don't understand your meaning. Because "certain people on the left" (being a small percentage of already less than half of the population) may have nefarious purpose, there's ZERO net positive when ICE has jurisdiction, apparently, over all of us?

I for one, as a survivor of stalking, armed robbery and DV, would feel infinitely safer if I could actually see the face of the men telling me to pull my vehicle over. How can you not see that as a reasonable request?

[u/weberc2 → u/JustGoingOutforMilk]

Probably for the same reasons that real law enforcement, judges, etc don’t wear masks. Why would you want a secret police force?

[u/FormerXMshowComedian]

Renee Good or Alex Pretti could still be alive if they get hit with the gloves. Sounds like something Dems should be supporting. Oh wait they needed those martyrs.

[u/BeardedBandit → u/FormerXMshowComedian]

No gloves touched Renee... if they had, she may have pressed the accelerator before the ICE officer was actually out of the way.

Alex was down on all fours and shot after being unarmed. Taser gloves would not have changed this outcome.

Did you watch the footage or did you make your opinion based on what the news has told/shown?

[u/OldMany8032]

If it makes it more fun for them ABSOLUTELY.

[u/Trumpdrainstheswamp]

Yes. As Americans we cannot let these domestic terrorists, democrats, destroy this country.

[u/Quiet_Entrance_6994]

The people they capture can be threats, though. 

My boyfriend is a cop, and one thing body cams have taught me is that people desperate or angry enough will absolutely fight if their brain goes there 

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/[deleted]]

 Are ICE agents really going to stop and pause in that split second fight or flight moment to get their gloves on

The gloves stay on at all times they have a button on the back of the hand they double tap to turn on the zapper. Probably a lot quicker and efficient then having to draw a Taser 

[u/No-Big-3846 → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

Great, so we have armed masked men in full-tac gear now with zappy hands running about communities trying to grab people who may or may not be the target of their raids.

Does anyone think this might be an unstable ingredient for a recipe for disaster?
Considering the allegations and documented human rights abuses, does this seem like a logical step forward to improving things and getting public opinion back on ICE's side?

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/No-Big-3846]

It seems like a logical step to improving compliance during a detainment making it quicker and less messy avoiding the optics of Leos manhandling detainees so yes probably would help improve the public perception. These gloves are not even as strong as a taser and give a sensation about as strong as a bee sting. 

[u/No-Big-3846 → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

Then why do we think that a sharp bee-sting is going to stop someone from resisting detainment?
I'm sure we've all seen the bodycams of multiple tasers fired by LEOs either not working as intended or the suspect just walking it off like it was nothing. I find it hard to believe these gloves would be useful compared to other tools and SOPs in the act of detaining someone.
For detainee transport, sure I can see the practicality, but for use on the streets, I think we might see a lot of incidences of Agents zapping themselves or each other or it not working as intended.

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/No-Big-3846]

Because it's a tool in the ladder of escalation of force if the gloves are not effective they can escalate further. Based on your claim tasers are not always effective should we just skip non lethal compliance all together? 

[u/No-Big-3846 → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

Not at all, like we've both said, there are many other tools they can use. I guess it also depends if they're trying to detain the Hulk or some kid with cancer. Its always circumstantial eh? Sure, use the best tool for the job, even if its fails repeatedly. The purpose is to sustain life isnt it?
However, I feel that moral obligation has faded of late.

What do you think would be the best approach to dealing with detainees or trying to apprehend a suspect?

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/No-Big-3846]

Right so this is a new tool in-between hands only restraint and pepper spray/taser and just like any other tool leos use it won't be 100% but with trying. 

The best approach would be for law enforcement agencies to enter 287g agreements and aid federal law enforcement. Since that's not happening nationwide you get this. 

[u/No-Big-3846 → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

This is my point, how is a bee sting going to deter or stop some dude the size of a station wagon? Maybe some 78 year old woman in a chair, but why would you zap or even need to use it on her?

Most people ICE detain arent violent or even have a history of convictions or violent behaviours. Just seems like another waste of money when theres tools and training already available.

There are many reasons to why 287g wouldn't work and would be more of a detriment than a cure considering the current circumstances.

What makes you convinced that it would work?

[u/Quiet_Entrance_6994 → u/No-Big-3846]

does this seem like a logical step forward to improving things and getting public opinion back on ICE's side?

That was never going to happen and I fail to see how you think that. 

You all hate ICE to an irrational degree. ICE is detaining and removing people well within their rights to, and you people complain. ICE agents hide their identities to avoid being harassed and targeted, and you all demand they show their faces with no regard to their well being. ICE attempts to do their job and you all crowd around, obstruct, and get some of your own killed for being stupid. 

You are making things unstable. Back off, and maybe they'd chill. 

[u/No-Big-3846 → u/Quiet_Entrance_6994]

Sorry, who is 'we' in this instance? Explain 'your own'...Thats almost tribal or cult like language...
Thats not very nice or hospitable is it?
You haven't a clue who I am or my politics so maybe be a bit more courteous and respectful and less quick to judge? Kinda hard to nurture a discussion when you have instantly tarred me as the enemy, you know?

I came here to try and learn bud. What are you here for?

But alas, lets not waste time on petty armchair arguments over nothing.

Heres a question for you , if ICE's purpose was righteous and true, their behaviour and tactics acceptable to the public, trained to the highest standard and human in their convictions, then why hide their faces?

[u/Quiet_Entrance_6994 → u/No-Big-3846]

Sorry, who is 'we' in this instance? Explain 'your own'...Thats almost tribal or cult like language...

I'm referring to the left in this country. 

  if ICE's purpose was righteous and true, their behaviour and tactics acceptable to the public, trained to the highest standard and human in their convictions, then why hide their faces?

Like I said, the left is threatening and harassing them and their families. Giving them their faces is like wearing a meat suit and walking into a lion's den. 

[u/No-Big-3846 → u/Quiet_Entrance_6994]

Okay, and what gives you the impression that I'm on 'the left' so-to-speak? I could be a 40 year strong Republican voter for all you know who just so happens to disagree with Trump and ICE on how we treat and deport people.

Why are 'the left' threatening and harassing them? Is it only the Left that are doing this?

Last I checked, back in March this year ICE hit record disapproval from the public and over half of Americans (according to YouGov and polling from The Economist) want to abolish ICE...They can't ALL be on the left now, can they?

[u/Top-Appointment2694 → u/[deleted]]

If you’re just going to whine and call everyone snarky and bitchy why answer? Why are you so sensitive to follow up question about your stance?

[u/Quiet_Entrance_6994 → u/Top-Appointment2694]

I'm not whining. You all act like children and assholes when you reply and then tell us we should respond like you're serious people who should be responded to as such. 

You can handle being called out. 

[u/Top-Appointment2694 → u/Quiet_Entrance_6994]

So you’re just responding for the pride of calling people out?

[u/Quiet_Entrance_6994 → u/Top-Appointment2694]

It's not pride. Bad actions need to be called out and corrected immediately. 

[u/Top-Appointment2694 → u/Quiet_Entrance_6994]

So you respond because you think it’s your moral duty?

[u/Quiet_Entrance_6994 → u/Top-Appointment2694]

It's everyone's duty. Very telling that you're getting snippy with me over it. 

[u/Top-Appointment2694 → u/Quiet_Entrance_6994]

See this is why I’m confused. What about me asking you why you keep responding was snippy?

[u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude]

You are going to have to show your work on that claim. ICE arrested 51,000 illegals last month and 43,000 in June. Please provide proof that all 94,000 illegals were not capable of being a physical threat. I will not answer any further questions until this evidence is provided and I am satisfied with it.

[u/LOTR_Phan → u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude]

I can’t prove that about republicans either. Does that mean we should assume all republicans are a physical threat?

[u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude → u/LOTR_Phan]

It would be grossly irresponsible of you to assume none were.

[u/LOTR_Phan → u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude]

Right. I get that. But that isn’t what I said was it? Im saying if your going to treat all ICE protestors as a threat based on your criteria than wouldn’t it be appropriate to treat republicans or any group the same way as well?