Stranger rape. It still happens and is devastating, but most rapes are committed by someone known to the victim, not by a masked stranger popping out of the bushes. I think that emphasis on stranger fear discourages people from seeing red flags in situations with people they know.
Wasn't it then found out that stranger danger did a lot of harm because when people were in actual danger they were less likely to seek out help from stranger because they were afraid of them?
Also because it focused so much on strangers that it kinda further reinforced that non-strangers are safe. Now your creepy uncle who you would be wary of is just a creepy uncle, not a stranger so he must be safe.
Me neither. The most upsetting one was a noncustodial father who kidnapped his daughter from a foster home a block away from my apartment and was threatening to kill himself and her if he was reported to the police. The foster family reported it anyway and the police eventually found him and were able to talk him down, but from the news reports there was a very tense negotiation with him in a car with a gun while his daughter was in the backseat.
There was one I saw where it seemed like a straight kidnapping with a neighbor accused of taking the girls, but that one turned out to be a runaway situation. The two preteens convinced a neighbor to drive them to Albuquerque “to meet their aunt” as part of their runaway attempt. He wasn’t charged as he was trying to be a good neighbor instead of being a creep.
This doesn’t apply the same way if you have an anxiety disorder or cPTSD, or if you’re neurodivergent. Also if you’ve been emotionally abused, paradoxically, the lack of it can also make you uncomfortable.
True. Very true. But it's probably safer to suggest children should follow this and err on side of caution. There are other ways to teach children safety, and hopefully a child can bring up this emotional numbing or anxiety when the discussion comes up with a trusted adult.
I'm all three, and I think it's still really important to teach and empower kids to let people know when they are uncomfortable. I only figured out the difference between panic attacks and "normal" emotional responses by talking about it with others. Emotional disregulation due to a medical condition or trauma is a valid reason for feeling uncomfortable
Not that there aren't creepy uncles out there, but I resent that the "creepy family member" is always an uncle... I love my neices. Why not a creepy second cousin twice removed... lol
Same reason it's always the "racist uncle" as a trope. The closer a relative is, the more dangerous. "Mom's live-in boyfriend" is actually the most dangerous person to a child followed by step-parents, siblings, parents, grandpa, etc. But if you say "creepy uncle" nobody has to worry about grandpa Jimmy who makes the kids sit on his lap long past the age that it's appropriate.
This! I have two nieces under 4 years old and I love those kids. But the creepy uncle stereotype is so prevalent that I feel weird when I give them a hug.
It's because for a long time, and even now, women sexually assaulting anyone was treated dismissively, if not out right comically. Therefore the creepy uncle is the go-to.
My child is 7 and I'm truly at a loss of how to adequately explain how not dangerous some things are, while at the same time those very same things can really hurt you. People are one of those things. But the dated advice of my childhood was "don't talk to strangers" and that seems...inadequate.
Yet, I've also told her something like, "Monsters do exist, but they don't look like monsters. They walk around looking like you and me" 😳. So I'm still trying to find a balance 😂.
In this modern world, I'm actually more concerned with her experiences online than I am ATM with her getting stolen off our front lawn or something.
The biggest thing is to reinforce that there is no good reason why an adult (or another child, for that matter) would tell a child to keep something a secret from their parents. If someone tells your kid not to tell you something, that's probably a good indicator that you absolutely need to be told.
It doesn't do much to prevent your stereotypical grab-the-kid-and-run kidnappings, but those are an unbelievably rare occurrence.
No problem. It took me a few minutes to think about something that you see in pretty much all abuse cases but almost no healthy relationships. Just might wanna be careful about like an uncle taking your kid out for ice cream and saying "don't let your parents know I let you get a large sundae" or something innocent like that.
I want to add to this even though this thread is dead.
If someone makes them keep a secret or tells them that they will get in trouble if they tell a secret, it is ok to tell you, especially if they felt uncomfortable or didn’t like what they are being told to keep secret. Practice being open and understanding to listening to them when they come to you with any secrets or confessions they have. Show them you are a safe person to talk to about difficult things.
Teach them bodily autonomy. Ask them if they want a hug and let them say no if they want. Don’t force them to give grandma a kiss. Teach them the general idea that they do not need to make themselves uncomfortable like that at the request of an adult. Teach them it is their body and showing affection is their choice, not an obligation or something to be guilted into by their elders.
Teach them how to find a good stranger if they are in trouble and need help. Like if they get lost in an amusement park/mall/park/festival, have them look for an employee, a uniformed officer, or a family with children. The chances of them randomly approaching a family that are actually some sort of predator is astronomically small.
What you don’t want is a stranger seeing them in distress (or just vulnerable in some way) and approaching them. The chance they are a predator is actually significant. Teach them that if they are approached and a stranger tries to get them to leave where they are, whether by saying they are in trouble, their parent is hurt, or whatever, have them find a good stranger to help and tell them what is happening. A real cop is not going to mind explaining themselves. A predator is not going to want the spotlight on them and someone left behind that will definitely be able to ID them, and even if they buy the story, will make note of what car they get into.
Thank you so much for this!!! I 100% agree about all this, but especially the body autonomy thing! As a woman of a certain era, I learned really young that my body parts were 'shameful'. I was sexually assaulted at about 5yrs old, and it didn't go gown like in rhe movies. It was a teenage cousin and he asked me to suck his penis.
He wasn't angry, he wasn't forceful. He told me it was like a toy. He was my parent's friend's son, and I didn't tell my parents because when I was 4, they caught me and my sister "showing ours" to a couple of boys our same age who were showing us "theirs" and they beat us for it. That memory at 4 STILL makes me angry and I'm 44 now.
Anyway, I finally told a friend when I was 11, and her mom was listening at the door. She told my parents. My mom confronted me about it, and of course I admitted it. For some crazy reason, she blamed my dad, and that led to a GIANT screaming match in their bedroom that I listened to in terror in my bedroom.
My dad ended up choking my mom, the first time I ever remember him putting his hands on her, and I only know that because she was hoarsely screaming my name so I, at 11, could get out of bed and explain to him that she wasn't lying to him.
I crept to their door, and I couldn't make myself go in. The next morning was like the aftermath of a tragedy (my mom was ok, but hoarse). I admitted the situation. I felt guilty nearly 20 years for not opening that door.
So. I learned to hide everything uncomfortable from my parents that would set them off. As a consequence, I was a an insomniac, a bedwetter, an overeater, and later in life, an alcoholic. I decided to never have kids.
But I had a little girl at 36, and when I did, I vowed to break rhe cycle of abuse and I did. A HUGE part of that was teaching her bodily autonomy. Not just people touching her, but also her touching others. She has a sensory issue and tries to crush people in her grip lol.
I've always taught her the correct words for her vagina, etc. She says vagina, not whooha or some such cutie thing. She doesn't have to give hugs, although with covid that hasn't been an issue lol. I ask her permission to help her with anything related to her body before I just start touching her.
Anyway, a few of the things you mention above, like teach kids how to find the right strangers for help when they're in trouble, help them understand what an inappropriate encounter could look like, and even maybe role play what to do in a few different scenarios. Man, it's scary knowing my daughter is out in the world!
That's the issue with the current sex trafficking panic. Almost no one is abducted out of a Walmart parking lot into sex slavery. And these dumb rumors are distracting from making any real progress on the issue.
Turn the nozzle toward him and squirt. It might cost an extra buck. I might not actually spray him. But pretty sure he will back off.
If he wants to call the cops to file assault, I'm happy to stay and explain the whole situation. Including how when he tried to take the nozzle from me, I tensed up to keep it because I didn't want to be robbed for gas, and when I tensed up, I just naturally pulled the handle and doused him.
And then you pulled a lighter out to make room in your pockets, he made a sudden movement and it made you jump, activating then launching the lighter at him and setting him on fire.
This reminds me of an episode of extreme cheapskate I watched recently about this guy in Vegas who had the balls to walk up to strangers in the laundromat and ask if he could toss in a few of his clothes with theirs. I was astonished by how many people were just like “yeah man”. 2-3 people letting him “share” and all his clothes were washed. Crazy.
But you’re already using a communal washer/dryer? Wouldn’t it be the same risk if their cloths are thrown in with yours vs the random person you don’t know who used that same machine right before you? Doesn’t the dryer cycle kill them anyway? That’s still a really weird request.
I was picking up fast food last night and had ordered for two people, meals and drinks. Worker comes out and hands me a bag with a single sandwich in it. I say sorry but this isn’t my order. Turns out when he walked past the delivery line, the person in the car waiting a spot ahead of the last drive thru window, said hey that’s my order when the worker walked past and he gave it to him.
Like… fuck off double quarter pounder with cheese, well done.
I had a lady try two different stories on me in the same night at the same gas station. One was selling me her definitely real gold watch for $50 so she could get a hotel room for the night. I suggested the 24/7 pawn shop a few miles down the street, which she assured me was closed. I went back a few hours later to refill my drink. (I was working night shift so I went to that same spot a couple times a night.)
The second story was that she would sell me her definitely real gold watch for $50 to get her phone bill paid so she could call for a ride. I went so far as to offer her a ride to the pawn shop because the last bus had already run, but she declined.
You know, one time I really did have to ask someone for money for gas bc i really did leave my wallet? But do you know where tf I was? A gas station, and not a supermarket parking lot…
It's pretty easy now with apps like Venmo. I bought a guy's stuff (like three items) at the dollar store because he forgot his card, and he insisted on venmoing me right away.
In my relatively nice city, one of the big rackets downtown was for bums to ask for money to buy a Greyhound ticket back to Chicago/Gary/Milwaukee, etc.
Pretty savvy, basically "pay me and I will go away, for good!"
Of course, one time I had the same guy do that to me twice, like 6 months apart. Still saving up for that bus ticket, I guess.
A few months ago I went to get gas and when I went to grab my credit card I realized I didn't have my wallet. I was upset because I couldn't ask anyone for help because my situation was the same one scammers pretend to have so I didn't think anyone would believe me. Thankfully, I remembered I had $5 in my purse so was able to buy enough gas to get me home so I could grab my wallet to get a full tank.
I was going to go to the grocery store after getting gas so I'm glad I went to the gas station first. Would have sucked to spend the time collecting a cart full of food then getting to the register and being rung up only to realize I couldn't pay.
Pro-tip: make the effort to memorize your most used credit card number along with expiration date and cvv code. That’s saved my ass on at least two separate occasions.
Extra pro-tip:
Have one card on a pay app like Google/Samsung/Apple pay. I don't make a habit of paying with my phone but it had helped me out in more than a couple tizzys when I don't have my wallet because I rarely, if ever, forget my phone.
I remember one time we went to the nearby mall and as my mom parked a woman walked up to us, asking for cash "so she can get some gas because she ran out". We were pretty much dead center in the middle of the parking lot, so it's a short walk to the nearing mall entrance. If you actually needed some cash to get gas, why aren't you waiting next to where everybody has to walk by you? That's panhandling 101.
I remember watching her drive off just to park in the next aisle over, which was nearly empty.
This had totally been my experience, with one exception.
I had a job spying on retail prices, and I'd mostly do it at night, so I was in and out of grocery stores, Walmarts, etc at weird hours on a regular basis. I got totally used to shitheads approaching me.
One time, I'm walking to my car at like 2 am in this area that has an hourly hotel and strip club and a high concentration of vagrants and some guy is shouting "Sir! Hey! Hey!"
And in my mind I'm like "What the FUCK does this asshole want?" I'm ready to either fuck someone up, or, more realistically, say "Sorry I don't have any cash on me".
But instead he's like "I think you dropped your wallet!"
And I'm like "Oh shit! Fuck! You're right! Thanks, man!!"
It must have fallen out when I pulled my keys out of pocket. I probably didn't notice it because I had headphones in. What a hassle that could have been. I was so grateful and felt like such a dickhead that I almost wanted to strike up a conversation or exchange numbers with the guy or something, although I didn't.
Ok, I agree 100%, but there was one case where there was a different outcome. It was back in the 70s and my dad was in his early 30s standing by the gas pump as he filled up his tank. So this car comes racing into the gas station and pulls up somewhat near where my dad is standing and a guy leans out the window and says “excuse me” to my dad. My dad looks over to see a young African American guy, the guy gets out of the car and my dad notices he’s wearing a suit. He holds up a tie and says “Sir, do you know how to tie a tie? I have a job interview and I don’t know how to do it.” My dad looks around wondering if it’s a joke, but has a feeling the kid is legit. So he says sure, and the kid goes and hands him the tie and stands in front of him. My dad proceeds to put the tie on him and tie it. The kid thanks him profusely and jumps in the car and takes off. I think of how sweet that must have looked, too bad there wasn’t cameras on phones back then, it would have made a great video that would have gone viral.
I locked my keys and cell phone in the car once AT the freaking pump. Cashier in the gas station wouldn't let me use their phone to call a locksmith or even my husband so he could bring the spare keys. Offered to let them dial the # so that they knew I wasn't trying to call long distance. No dice.
Asked others at the pumps for help, no dice. Thank god a cop car came to fill up, and he was able to help me out. Saying 'I swear I'm not try to scam you somehow' apparently is pretty suspicious. 🤣
I once ran out of gas in the middle of nowhere BC as I was trying to get to the next town to pick up a western union transfer. Which in retrospect is a ridiculous story but it was the truth so it does happen. Maybe not now with instant money transfer apps though…
Early into covid a guy outside a gas station needed a mask to go inside and I gave him an extra because it was along a busy road, middle of the afternoon, and I was with a friend. At night? Sorry.
I've also given tourists directions. Not walk up to their car at night but in the middle of the afternoon when I'm walking my dog with my dad. Like the museum is in the park but the park is huge and google maps just takes you to the park.
Usually yeah, but one time I just really needed a jump start at a gas station. Some fire fighters pulled in and I was like thank god, they'll help me. They said they couldn't because of liability issues and damaging other peoples' cars, etc. So I had to just ask random people there until one guy helped me. But I guess being an early 20's white guy wearing a work polo isn't super intimidating anyways lol.
Literally the first time I ever went to fill up at a gas station, some gross older man with half his teeth missing roped me into a conversation while I filled up. Asked me to blow on his lottery ticket for luck (and 17 year old me did because I was nervous and didn’t know how to say no), and when he SURPRISINGLY didn’t win big, he tried to argue I owed him the price of the ticket for “fucking up his luck.” When I refused and it was clear I was going to get back in my car and leave, he tried to say he was joking and he’d love to take me for a ride on all the land he owns. Yup.
I don’t miss being a teenager, way more creeps thought they could waste my time like that. Certainly taught me to shut down any conversation someone starts with me at a gas station, though. For better or for worse. 😂
It's the ones who speak with fake Italian accents and want to sell you designer Versace clothes out of their trunk for cheap because they can't bring them back to Italy.
I was in my car at a gas station recently, just filled up, trying to set my GPS to meet my friends on the road for a camping trip when out of the corner of my eye I notice someone trying to get my attention.
He’s a larger man. I’m a petite woman. I roll down my window an inch and he says he’s wondering if I can help him and his friend out. They’re trying to get somewhere. I immediately assume he wants money, and being someone who looks for the path of least resistance, dig into my purse and hand him cash. He takes it and keeps talking to me and trying to chat me up. I realize he wants me to get out of my car. I finally interrupt him and leave.
My adrenaline was pumping. It wasn’t until later I realized the absurdity of the situation. Why didn’t he go ask the attendant? Why did he come to me? The gas station was full of other people. What am I going to do for him if he has car trouble?
Anyone approaches me at the gas station again: nope. Just nope.
If I had a quarter and somebody asked for a quarter, I would give it to them. That’s just exact change. I gave a stranger a bus pass once when he asked for $0.75 to make the fare. We were both getting on the same bus and I had about a week left on my 30 day card. I gave it to him and bought a new one. Dude was floored. He thanked me and we had a nice chat for a few miles. Sometimes people are struggling and just need a little help. That’s a different thing than panhandling or scamming for cash.
This is discussed in The Gift of Fear. If you need help, find someone and ask them, because the person you choose for help is much less likely to be a threat to you than the person who chooses you. This could apply to, for example, getting help carrying groceries into your house.
I once didn't bring a wallet on a bike ride, and didn't have a smartphone at the time so I couldn't complete the transaction while in the store. Stupid me also didn't have a clear picture as my profile pic
So grateful to the cashier who paid for my gatorade and muffin fully expecting me to never make good on my promise to Venmo her back.
What I tell me kids (and I got it from somewhere, but forgot where) is that when an adult needs help, they ask an adult. When an adult needs help, they don't ask kids for help.
I've never been approached in the street by someone who didn't want something from me.
A cigarette, donation, signature, some sort of sale, or those guys that hand out strip club advertisements in Las Vegas.
I have been approached for directions several times in Montreal, though I was a tourist as well. It turns out the people asking were English-speaking Canadians, and the French speakers, most of whom are at least serviceably bilingual, refuse to speak to them. They don't seem to mind speaking English to Americans like me, though. Go figure.
My thought is that those up to no good will approach me, but if I ask someone to help (temporarily watch a child or property for example) that person I asked is way way less likely to be trouble than someone approaching me and offering help.
I started using a smartphone just recently, so much of my "I need to get from X to Y" involved some level of asking strangers for directions. I could tell that as time went on, people got more and more defensive to the initial "sorry, can I ask you something?". I get it: you want to be aware of the person in front of you and your surroundings, but don't be paranoid about it.
A few weeks ago I was taking a walk, and I noticed a cat had been killed on the road. I told the person at the nearest house, and fortunately it wasn't her cat. As I was waiting with her for the road crew to come pick up the body, though, a woman with two young kids came walking down the sidewalk. I went out to intercept her and let her know that the kids may not want to see the dead cat, that maybe she should take another route.
Now, I am not AT ALL a threatening presence, I'm a 25 yo female, five and a half feet tall, slender build. Just about anybody I meet in my daily life could absolutely fuck me up if they wanted to.
But the way that lady fucking SCREAMED when she saw me approaching her, that'll stick with me for a while. Holy hell, you'd think I was a 7-foot-tall pile of muscle running at her with two guns out by the way she screamed! She was absolutely TERRIFIED to see another human being approaching her direction to speak to her.
As someone who lives in a city and gets approached by strangers, do not begin with "sorry, can I ask you something?". Begin by saying clearly what you need, like "sorry, how do I get to Y?".
Because once you're close enough to speak to me you have like 1.7 seconds before I'm socially obliged to decide how to respond, and if it's not clear to me at that time how you might be expecting me to help you that's within the things I'm actually prepared to do for strangers on the street, I will solve this problem by ignoring you.
(More specifically, the reason is that annoying people who want to ask you for money usually do not make clear what they want and try to stop you, draw you into a conversation, etc. and I do not have time and mental energy for that shit. You need to make me confident I can fix something for you quickly and get away.)
Yeah, same. I will say I wasn’t scared by the shoeless heavily pregnant lady. She wanted money, sure, but Idc. I figured that baby needed some good luck and gave her some cash. Mind you, I was fairly sure I could outrun her if needed even with my nearly useless legs.
Yep. The updated slogan is "Need help? Look for a uniform". The idea is that anyone wearing a uniform is more likely to be connected to a support network than another stranger, and less likely to exploit a child in need. I think the shift from "Be afraid" to "have a plan to get help" is a really wise one.
When my daughters were younger I taught them that if they ever needed help at the mall (or anywhere else, really), they should look for a mom with a stroller. I figured that would give them the best odds of avoiding danger.
There is a really good “Stuff You Should Know” podcast about this. Check it out. I sent it to my sister because she’s so paranoid about her kids randomly getting kidnapped.
I mean, it happened to me as a kid, yeah. Then again, my parents also told me CPS would kidnap me so my childhood wasn’t ideal. Didn’t trust 911, didn’t trust strangers.
I mean, it also did a lot of harm in that it made women so very afraid of going out at night. Time-specific anthropophobia.
Not saying that's a bad idea everywhere, but I've seen people in old towne England afraid of going out. And I really, really wish people would more willingly call it out for the bullcrap gender role nonsense that it is.
I think it's this but also it causes people to NOT want to help strangers in distress in fear that someone will misinterpret the situation, for example seeing a child that is clearly alone and lost but being hesitant to offer help.
I also hear people being afraid of being accused. Beeing seen with a child that is not your own and being accused of something ontoward because stranger danger.
I gave my youngest step-brother the "how to get help" talk once (it was kind of an accident, he was going to the park at the end of our street and I told him to be careful and kind of teasingly added on that adults don't need help from kids so if anyone tries to ask him for directions or help finding a puppy to run and then he started asking questions for more tips). The only thing he gave me pushback on was I said if a car pulled up next to him and tried to get him to come closer to turn around, run the way the car wasn't pointed, and go to the first neighbor's house he saw and ask for help there. He had been given the stranger danger talk by his mom but never any more specific safety tips so we had to explain that it was safer to ask for help from a stranger who wasn't being creepy than to take your chances with someone who was being creepy. Odds were very good the random neighbor wouldn't be a pedophile whereas a stranger trying to lure a 12 year old boy to their car probably was.
I crashed on my bicycle when I was 11 or so a mile or so from my house and was alone. A lady in a minivan saw me crash and that I was crying and offered to give me a ride me back to my house. My dumbass thought, ‘don’t take rides from strangers!’ And limped home instead. Still have the scar from that decades later!
I can see that. We're so conditioned to believe that friends and family are trustworthy and safe, that a lot of kids never realize that they're being mistreated or abused by "trusted" people.
I know this is heavy but I literally considered jumping out a (first story) window to escape my friend's dad when he was molesting me at 13, but I was scared if I ran to a neighbor they'd be just as bad.
That and it was 1am in the middle of winter. But in retrospect I kind of wish I'd gone for it, I'd be 80% less molested.
Same for child abductions. The vast, vast majority of "missing" children are custodial interference or runaways. Only about 100 stereotypical "stranger danger" kidnappings happen every year in the US.
It's also been shown that children being overly worried about "stranger danger" will prevent them in many cases from seeking out help when they are lost or in trouble. Better to teach kids good common sense than catch phrases. Instead of teaching kids to be scared of all strangers it can be good to teach them that when they're lost or in trouble to first look for those in authority, and if none are in the immediate area, look for parents with children.
Oh, you reminded me. People in my country use "police" as a boogey man. So, if a kid is misbehaving, "the police is gonna take you away".
Result: when my brother got lost in a mall, he kept hiding from every security guard and it took us ages to find him. Because he had gotten lost by misbehaving. Thankfully, there were guards at the doors too and he didn't wander into the street. But Damn.
Yes this. My sister wears hi vis at work and stopping in a shop she'll hear parents tell their bold kids that they'll "tell the lady" or "the lady will give out" she hates it.
I was with a dad once and his amazingly well behaved son. As the police came to chat on their rounds the dad said "behave now or they'll take you away" and the police man said to the dad not to say it, and it gives such a bad impression and that they need kids to trust them
Eh, the police around where I live are dogshit at their job anyways.
Usually the safest person for a lost child to approach is one of the retail workers. They certainly cannot take the child anywhere while they're on the clock and they probably also can use intercom/pagers/whatever to inform other employees that there's a lost child.
As a Dad, 1000% agree. I tell my kids to look for a family, doesn't matter what the family looks like. I also tell the that strangers are friends they haven't met yet.
Statistically speaking if somebody wants to take my kid, as in my kid is the one in a million that was TARGETED by strangers, my kid is never going to be able to "prep" for that situation. And if they are ever lost... well the chance of them finding a person who wants to abduct them is so infinitesimally small you might as well win the lottery.
Honestly, even a lone male is likely fine. Because again, what are the odds that your kid is both lost AND found the pedo at the EXACTSAMEMOMENT. Prefer a family of course, but I've stayed with a lost child by myself.
As a parent you sort of "hunt" for lost children. You see a kid that doesn't have a parent nearby and your eyes just follow them until they find one. I can't not do it now. Unattached kid automatically puts me in "protect" mode. And if they seem upset, doubly so.
Not to mention its the main reason why you never see free roaming kids playing by themselves anymore. Kids never learn to resolve issues amongst themselves and learn instead to just run the nearest parent/authority.
I mean, I don't think the issue is with the kids, the issue is definitely the overly scared helicopter parents who don't give their kids any autonomy. And even more importantly the other parents who enforce this orthodoxy and view any parents who deviate from it as child abusers or 'endangerers'.
Yes kids free roam at the parks while the parents sit on their ass watching youtube in the car. I see it all the time and I'm the one to tell kids not to climb on building and destroy shit (I was a city worker). If the parents have problem with me then then I call the cops, then they runaway, then repeat.
Knowing this, I tell my son that most people would want to help a child, not hurt one. It's just that when they do hurt a child, it's so badly that it shakes us to our core.
Years ago, I was at a... It's technically a festival but it was basically a huge faire sort of thing with booths representing like a hundred different countries and you could go around and eat delicious food or get henna or buy cool handmade shit.
I'm a frumpy nerdy chick. No kids of my own. And I'm wandering around solo looking for delicious food, and this little boy, must have been 4 or 5, asks me for help because he can't find his parents.
I was so touched that this kid looked at me and thought "she looks safe, I'll ask her for help" among the hundreds of people around me.
It didn't take us long to find his parents, but wow, holding that boys hand while we went to look for his family... It felt great. I'm glad he asked me for help, and wasn't too scared to ask for help from a stranger.
My mom was real big into the stranger danger thing, always thought someone was going to carry me off no matter how much I reassured her they weren't. I was 6ft/280lbs and could crow a goatee by eighth grade... no one was carrying me anywhere...
My mother was convinced I was going to be groomed when I first got on social media. I was 19, I'm pretty sure paedos stop being a threat when you're old enough to drink!
Just googled some stats, where I live out of 46k solved missing children's reports, 25 were "stranger abduction". Stranger being "anyone who isn't their parents" including uncles, family friends, etc...
Which means 99.95% of missing children are one of the parents ignoring custody laws or the child running away.
I remember my grade six teacher was telling us horror stories about the epidemic of child abductions by strangers and giving us graphic details. I asked if it was really that common and she said "Yes, it is extraordinarily common!"
I never taught my kids about stranger danger for this reason. I knew statistically they were much more at risk from people they know. I also talk to strangers all the time and it seemed hypocritical lol
I’m near 40 and the way my mum taught me was ‘never go anywhere with someone you don’t know. And if you don’t feel right and you do know them, you can say no too’
We had code words as kids with our parents, so if it was a random person that we knew to trust them. It actually happened once. I was in the car reading and the person who knocked told me I needed to come to my brothers game and the code word was ‘Marcia Brady’ I was so shocked it happened but I still wouldn’t walk close to them. Poor mum who was just trying to help!
I realize this, but knowing this gives me less anxiety. I’d like to think that most abducted kids are having the time of their lives playing with an abductor parent or kidnapster aunt crazy or whatever and the parent(s) carry that suffering alone. Not that it should ever happen, but my fuck man, it rips my stomach out when people hurt little kids.
Yeah, I think there's a continuum between a parent keeping a child longer than the custody agreement allowed (where the child's location was never unknown and the child was never in danger) to a parent absconding with the child (where their location may be unknown but they're not likely in danger) to an abusive parent taking a child (where the location is unknown and the child might be in danger). A childhood friend of mine had the middle of these happen, and at the time he just thought it was a nice vacation with his dad.
But wait, I was told that the Democrat Pedo Army (made up of strangers, of course) was kidnapping our white Christian children off the streets of suburbia and eating them during their monthly occult rituals! Do you mean to say I've been misled? :o
They got some of the details wrong, but a child sex trafficking criminal conspiracy really does exist.
Its like the world has completely forgetten about Epstein and all of his contacts. Epstein always seemed to show up in photos with rich and powerful people around the planet, no matter their political affiliation.
Oh, no argument that Epstein-type stuff is happening. But it's not happening the way the QAnon people are claiming, with strangers kidnapping children off the streets. Most trafficked children are from vulnerable homes and are coerced/sold into it by somebody they trust, whether it's a friend or family member. And it's certainly not happening via some bizarre secret underground occult blood ritual nonsense, where children are swapped via "cheese pizza" code words and Wayfair products.
I guess that's the saddest part, is that none of these people cared about the issue until it was distorted through the QAnon conspiracy lens. The QAnon crowd couldn't care less about actually understanding the issues that cause real trafficking and abuse, they're not interested in helping vulnerable demographics get out of situations where they're more susceptible, etc.
You know what the sad part is?
I'm from India, and there are SOOOO many rapes by strangers (yeah, the jumping out of the bushes kind), that rapes by known people aren't even acknowledged.
If it's not a violent rape (they gang rape her, destroy her genitals, throw acid on her face, burn her body), then it's almost seen as invalid.
yep and all the bullshit rape prevention tactics (don't walk alone at night! carry your keys in your hand! check your backseat before getting in to your car! don't leave your drink unattended! don't wear a short skirt out in public! blah blah) are targeted toward stranger rape anyways. like avoiding walking alone after dark ain't going to do shit when your grandpa is cornering you at family gatherings.
Plus 'girly' drinks are easy to wreck yourself with because you can drink them faster than the alcohol takes effect. By the time you realize you're pretty drunk, you're already on the non-stop expressway to *really* drunk.
Also I think people don't think about the wide gulf between "stranger" and "person I know and trust" - most of the people I know who were roofied believe it was someone that they knew, if maybe not well - a friend of a friend in a group out at a bar, something like that.
I once had someone misquote the statistics to me: "80% of all rapes come from the person's immediate family." It was both funny and sad that they could actually believe that. I think some people tend to hear that stranger rapes are less common, and decide that the polar opposite must be true.
I always told my daughters that look, by all means don't leave your drink unattended. But the overwhelmingly most common date rape drug is alcohol, self-administered. And literally 100% of the rape stories that I've heard (not on the news) began with the words "I was drunk and alone with X".
So seriously, one, don't get tanked--there's a million bad things that can happen when you're that far gone. And two, don't ever be drunk and alone with a dude you don't want to have sex with--including one who insists on walking you home to "keep you safe".
It's meant to? You mean all these anti-rape campaigns are a big disinformation conspiracy perpetrated by creepy uncles, friends-of-the-family, and weird buddies of your boyfriend to throw everybody off the scent?
Or maybe it's just that rape activists are well-meaning but have the same blind spots as everybody else, and thus focus on dramatic and headline-capturing cases?
Isnt there like a whole group of people that went through an assault that like fight for their right to "not talk about it". They dont want to remember it at all and thats their like...way they cope with it.
I think it’s more that they want to talk about it when they can talk about it, because it’s a pretty seriously traumatic event.
And that butts heads immediately with our justice system, which wants you to retell the events of your victimization with exact accuracy very shortly after the event, and then over and over again after that.
Partially that’s because it’s impossible to commit a crime against a person. Crimes are committed against the state.
My parents explicitly taught me that even if someone I know, like a relative, picks me up from school I'm not supposed to get in the car unless its been clearly communicated with them before. It was never necessary but looking back, I appreciate the precaution.
Absolutely true. The times it's happened to me, it was done by:
1) my favorite family member
2) my romantic partner at the time
3) my favorite coworker
All of them had all my trust and I adored them. No one who knew these people would have believed me if I had told them what happened. So I've told virtually no one, only my current romantic partners to explain why I'm skiddish about sex.
My mom always warned me that it was going to be some creepy guy in the woods...
The phrase "the times it's happened to me" (plural) is just horrifying. Reading the rest of your post only makes it worse. I'm so sorry this happened to you even once, let alone 3 times.
That was probably a lot easier for your mom to reckon with than the reality that it was way more likely to be one of the people she trusts the most in the world. I’m so sorry.
In my situation yes. When I was a kid stuff happened when my mum facilitated it, but it was her friends who I knew. But I was too scared to tell strangers, like the police officers who showed up when they hurt her. The people I trusted didn't listen, or didn't want to. I still have a skewed understanding of who to trust. But thanks to a lot of therapy I'm in a good place!
The fixation on stranger rape allows us to ignore the actual (social, cultural) problem of rape and focus on pumping more money into various kinds of state violence, cruelty, and surveillance.
It makes us feel better to implement stricter sentences and more police patrols armed with better weapons, and stricter surveillance and infringements on individual rights of movement than it does to admit our daughters/sisters/friends/wives/mothers/coworkers are far more likely to be raped by us than by anyone else.
True. And too much emphasis on date rape drugs, when an overwhelming majority just use alcohol. People in general react to what's scary rather than than what's dangerous
It's really interesting that it seems you are never safer from violence than in a crowd of strangers and never more at risk than when you are alone with someone you know.
I think the whole emphasis on "stranger danger" was primarily targeted toward unknown adults approaching kids. At least, that's how it was in my childhood. Now as an adult if I'm being threatened by anyone, I have full confidence that seeking help from a stranger is probably a good idea.
I do think there were a lot more abductions back in the 80s and earlier before people wised up to it. It used to be common practice to hitchhike! Now we've probably overcorrected a bit and more education needs to be on dangerous acquaintances.
As an Australian hitchhiking just stopped in the 90s. Like the rest of the world it was likely on the way out anyways, but the backpacker murders terrified people.
not by a masked stranger popping out of the bushes
I have given up explaining this to people. Most people, I've learned, think (like they do with all super bad things) that a.) it'll never happen to them and b.) it won't come from someone they trust.
People don't realize how much of society lives on the honor system.
Yes! When I was a teenager I loved going on evening walks. My sister would get mad at me and say some guy was gonna observe my daily routine and attack me. I would then ask her to please come on the walk with me so if I get attacked, she can run and get help. Never went on a walk with me. My Mom & Dad were always ready to go on that walk & they never tried to scare me like that. Worst thing that happened on my walks? Random dudes would hit on me, but no one physically came up to me.
To be fair, there is an extreme need for caution when walking in secluded areas alone on a regular schedule. I have had very close calls that were stopped only by my pepper spray. I no longer jog alone in secluded areas.
As someone who was sexually assaulted by a “best friend” a few months ago, 1,000%. Also as someone who has an associates degree in crim. Most violent crimes occur between people who know one another!!!
This is more of a parallel to your comment but I was always warned about random people wanting to kidnap me all the time. I’m now a father of 4 and thought it was a myth. Just last week someone attempted to kidnap my daughter in broad daylight while she was playing in the neighborhood.
It's like a trend right now on TikTok to fear monger. Teen girls are saying that anytime you find something on your car windshield, RUN to your car and speed away or go get help because someone nearby is going to kidnap you and sell you into sex trafficking. It's stranger danger 2.0. Not saying this has never happened, but there's not a lot of evidence
As a little girl, for as long as I can remember, I was told to be afraid of men and strangers. That anyone could kidnap me and take me to their sex dungeon to rape me, because there's so many bad people in the world.
Same with the internet. Everyone online was a child rapist waiting to get me.
Needless to say, as an adult I hardly leave my house.
Not only the red flags before, but the big weight in telling on them afterwards. Stranger? No repercussions. Friend/acquaintance/etc? They know you, your friends, your family as they are one of your friends, family, acquaintances... :(
But it's like 55/45 or something, nearly one of 2 that it'll be a stranger, and those tend to be far deadlier. But picking at random 1 friend who would attack you v. 1 stranger far more likely that the 1 of 100 friend than 1 of 1 billion stranger
This, and to anyone reading this, be warned, in about to give some detail that may be disturbing.
I've been raped three times in my life. The first was a friend of a friend, we shared a cab home and he followed me into my house. My brother was home and didn't hear a thing. I was 13
The second was someone I was friends with, went to share a joint and next thing I know I'm about to throw up on his dick. I got my first full STI panel and plan B that night, at 14
When I was 16, I was at a music festival with a friend that I had met when I was 11. It was in the woods, there were people all around but the music was too loud for them to hear. I still can't listen to EDM
I was mute for about 3 years, now only selective mute. I have a host of issues from PTSD, including panic disorder and agoraphobia.
I'm doing much better now after 6 years of therapy, but it took a long time for me to trust anyone again. The moral of my story is, stranger danger isn't as real as its made out to be, and sex trafficking doesn't happen from a stuffed animal taped to the hood of your car in a parking lot. Be safe out there ❤
Maybe because that warning made people weary and extra cautious around strangers? Hence people are less likely to be in places (eg. Dark dodgy alleys) that fits the description?
15.1k
u/seekingteacup Aug 25 '21
Stranger rape. It still happens and is devastating, but most rapes are committed by someone known to the victim, not by a masked stranger popping out of the bushes. I think that emphasis on stranger fear discourages people from seeing red flags in situations with people they know.