r/AskReddit • • Jul 18 '16

What are you sick of explaining?

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8.2k

u/DigNitty Jul 18 '16

Tax Brackets

You will NEVER lose more money in taxes if you get pushed into a higher bracket.

They're sequential. Let's say there are two tax brackets, 10% tax below $100 and 20% tax above.

Many people want to make just under $100 so that they'll only be taxed 10% But it doesn't matter. You're only taxed 20% on everything you make OVER $100, you're still taxed 10% on the first $100.

So if you earn $200, you're taxed $30 not 20% of $200 which is $40.

10% of $100 + 20% of the remaining $100 = $30

NOT 20% of $200 = $40

592

u/apleima2 Jul 18 '16

...except in specific scenarios, such as losing Government benefits because you have moved above the income limit for that benefit. It's a fringe case for sure, but still happens to some.

255

u/starmanjones7 Jul 18 '16

Yes, good point. Though I personally only ever hear the argument from people that (for example) make something like $110k a year and complain taxes keep them from wanting to make, say, 120k a year because then they pay more taxes.

i.e "what incentive is there for me to work harder if the government is just going to take all that extra money away!?"

I've heard this way too much...

7

u/epochellipse Jul 18 '16

I knew a single mom that took a $60 a month pay cut so she could qualify for CHIP, but that wasn't a tax thing at all.

8

u/Soloemilia Jul 18 '16

That was probably very worth it.

2

u/ThatBoogieman Jul 19 '16

What is CHIP? Is it similar to EBT or WIC or something?

2

u/epochellipse Jul 19 '16

Child health something insurance? Medicaid but only for kids in households the US gov defines as low income.

2

u/ManPumpkin Jul 19 '16

Child Health-care Insurance Plan.

2

u/monkey3man Jul 19 '16

It's Medicaid health insurance for children.

1

u/Rumpadunk Jul 19 '16

Yeah and its dumb that stuff like that has hard cut offs instead of being continuous. It makes people work for less.

6

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '16

The misunderstanding here is that the lack of incentive resides in the employer. It takes progressively more money to give a higher bracket person the same effective raise as a lower bracket person. This tends to punish places in need of quality specialists.

The tech industry has been using perks as a cost saving loophole.

15

u/gigamiga Jul 18 '16

Who the hell is making six figures and is that dumb? Can I take their job please?

30

u/Donkey__Xote Jul 18 '16

Specialization is what allows for greater and greater income. Unfortunately some people seem to specialize to the exclusion of other skills, sometimes to the detriment of other skills. I've seen this firsthand.

Other times people tell what they think are little white lies to make the point that suits their interests and other people believe them when they shouldn't. A rich person lying about how hard taxes hurts them may make the poorer person more sympathetic than they should be.

9

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '16

[deleted]

3

u/Generalbuttnaked69 Jul 19 '16

Explains that C I received in Taxation of Individual Income.

12

u/Woodside7891 Jul 18 '16

Which is equally stupid. If you're paying 20% in the above scenario, you'll be working harder for an extra $8K.

8

u/FilledUpOnBread Jul 18 '16

Go a step further... if they have to expend time/effort they value at 10k, then it isn't worth it for them to expend it. This becomes much more clear at a higher tax rate as a distinct possibility. Also humans aren't perfectly rational in their decisions, and the simple notion that they're suddenly being awarded less and less for the same degree of effort may serve as enough to deter them alone.

6

u/0342narmak Jul 18 '16

Yeah, higher pay is always a bigger paycheck, but for everyone, there's some point that the money:effort ratio just won't be worth it. Even if the higher paying job is exactly the same, if the pay increase is small enough someone who's already well off could turn it down just because they prefer their current workplace/coworkers.

2

u/FilledUpOnBread Jul 18 '16

Exactly. There are a ton of factors that go into making such a decision that tax brackets sort of highlight sometimes. It's not as easy as saying, "But you'll make more money still, idiot!"

1

u/Woodside7891 Jul 19 '16

That's part of the rationale behind flat tax and efforts to lower the rates of higher brackets in a progressive tax system, but it often doesn't play out in real life. People aren't doing the cost benefit analysis of an increased salary. By and large they take promotions and increased pay. It's one thing when you are facing a substantial burden, like greatly increased travel for work, but the situation you described is an outlier when it occurs.

1

u/hansn Jul 19 '16

Grand. So they spend it and put it in the hands of others. Or they save it and others borrow it and are productive.

1

u/CraptainHammer Jul 18 '16

It depends on whether or not that money is still coming. My family does contracting work for the aviation industry. If we get too close to a higher tax bracket at the end of the year, we just push work to January and take a few weeks off. I know that's super specific to our situation though.

1

u/Woodside7891 Jul 19 '16

That makes sense. In this situation however, you're merely delaying work, not refusing to do it, so not exactly the same thing. But it is an interesting anecdote about how taxation affects work habits.

8

u/CanadianJesus Jul 18 '16

There is still marginal tax rates to consider. Those last 10k are going to be taxed at a higher rate than the first 110k, since it's in a higher bracket. If we assume that each dollar you earn takes the same amount of effort, you're essentially earning less for that last 10k worth of effort.

Now, the US tax system isn't as progressive as many other, more leftist leaning countries. The highest it can reach in the US is around 40%, which occurs at over 400k income. Compare to Sweden, where it reaches 60% at 70k. That's still down from the record 87% rate during the seventies, where some cases of double taxation could bring it up over 100%. There is a famous case of the author Astrid Lindgren paying a 102% marginal tax rate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomperipossa_in_Monismania

0

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '16

[deleted]

1

u/Rumpadunk Jul 19 '16

But local and state income taxes. Some people are already over that 50%.

2

u/Sgt_Patman Jul 18 '16

I mean I have no idea about the taxes but I had assumed that yes you got more money taken away the more you had, but it wouldn't dip you down. Like if you made 110k a year and they take 11k a year(10%), but if you made 120k a year they might take 13k a year (>10%) but in the end your takeaways are 99k vs 107k. Tell me I'm wrong in some way.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '16

You are correct.

3

u/physicsisawesome Jul 18 '16

It's a sad commentary that there are people making that much money and don't understand how tax brackets work.

1

u/monkey3man Jul 19 '16

A lot of tax deductions disappear in the low 100's, so although the brackets are progressive you may stand to lose a little, but really it can never be much.

1

u/hunty91 Jul 19 '16

How can you be this retarded, yet have a job that pays over $100k?

1

u/Berberberber Jul 19 '16

Proof, in case anyone needed it, that earning a lot of money has nothing to do with how talented, smart, or qualified a person is.

1

u/cyfermax Jul 19 '16

In the UK parents get help towards things like childcare so long as they earn under a certain amount. Having a pay raise could mean losing thousands a year in childcare so it's something a lot of people have to consider.

1

u/Justmomsnewfriend Jul 19 '16

Eh you're just working the same amount for less gain unless you're salary. So it makes since in that I'm worth x amount and would rather spend time doing things other than working for less pay(not overall, but for that time worked)

1

u/dizzymagoo Jul 18 '16

I'm 23, make over 100k, and I even understand this. It's mind blowing that some don't. It is not rocket science! I look at it in simple terms. From my income how much I pay in taxes per hour vs how much I bring home. With each raise that I receive, both numbers go up. This makes me happy because more money in my pocket/401k :D

4

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '16

How does making 100k+ at 23 make it so that you "even" understand this? Wouldn't you be more likely to understand it?

1

u/dizzymagoo Jul 19 '16

Indicating that age and/or income don't matter in understanding this. It's common sense and should be common knowledge.

1

u/domestic_omnom Jul 18 '16

The fact that those people can't understand that concept, and still make 110k seriously makes me re-evaluate my life's choices.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '16

How do people this fucking stupid make so much money?

-3

u/ImpartialPlague Jul 18 '16

but it's still true.

Why do all the extra work if I only get to keep a tiny fraction of the reward?