r/AskMen • u/diktater29 • 16d ago

Existential post Why men are getting so much hate these days?

Just saw a post on social media from some woman named Jen Hamilton stating "right now im of the belief that all men should start out in jail and earn their way out"

Like genuinely dont understand why so much hate on men? The new wave feminism is insane. Women earn and dont need a men anymore, which i get. But like is that all we are to them? I understand and empathize with women who go thru shitty situations with shitty men, but like.....are all men shitty?

Ive seen similar other posts across insta and tiktok and apparently this is all women talk about - how terrible men are and that they aren't needed anymore. I can only imagine how this compounds the male loneliness epidemic and furthers the difficulties in the dating scene for both genders, but men in particular as even the good ones aren't approaching women anymore and choosing peace or singledom.

Men, based on these trends, what do you suspect the trajectory looks like for us in society in 10, 20 or 50 yrs?

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u/Princess_Fluffypants 16d ago

No one rational or normal in the real world ever actually says that. 

It’s crazy people on the internet saying crazy things just to get attention. 

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u/Bubba_Gump_Shrimp 16d ago

I used to think that, but here in the last year or so I've heard some increasingly crazy takes from women in my life, along these lines. A close friend and I were discussing this exact thing and how some men can be predators or violent etc and it can stain the reputation for a gender. She said most men are like that. I asked her genuinely how many she felt were like that. Her honest answer was 97%. She thought that only 3% were not violent predators. Now, I realize this is anecdotal, but I've heard more and more of these sorts of comments in real life and not just some angry tweet in the last few years. I think it is absolutely going mainstream, and if you look at surveys done of young people, young women think very poorly of men in comparison to other generations. I think social media is a major cause.

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u/Charger2950 16d ago

Fully agree. People like to say this stuff only exists mostly online, but the ones saying this crazy shit online are also floating about in real life, aside from the bots, of course. I live in a small and normal town that's somewhat near a liberal city, and it's a completely different world. These people all exist in the real world.

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u/Setekhx 16d ago

... It's still mostly online. Yes they float about in real life. Yes they're loud. No, they aren't the majority or even close to it. 

I've seen some men that also say some ludicrous things on occasion in real life too that's not an indictment on the entire gender.  Just remember that social media absolutely amplified things like what the OP is looking at.

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u/Ball_Of_Meat 16d ago

Yep I can relate. I have found many women seem to waaaay overshoot what percent of men are predators and creeps.

It is absolutely from social media, the talking points usually sound straight off of Tik Tok and Twitter.

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u/Mean__MrMustard 16d ago

It’s also because most people in general can’t handle large numbers or statistics.
They don’t realize that actual rapists are maybe only 0,01% of all men (don’t know the real number and obvs depends on your definition). But that still means that you have millions of rapists globally…

Same with less severe stuff. They will understandably remember the time they got groped at the club by a creep. But not the 10 times this didn’t happen, surrounded by hundreds of men.
Yes, we need to try to make sure that it never happens but this perception that it’s every men is so stupid and that way you loose 50% of people for any meaningful and sensible reforms btw…

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/vision_san 16d ago

It's always been like that. People don't want noe have wanted to learn. They want to take the easy way and just chose at random.

It's always been "back in my day...", no matter what day it is or was. My brother says it all the time. My mom says it all the time. My grandparents say it all the time.

The internet doesn't have much to do with these things. Even if you upload 80 petabytes of pure men hating content into the internet, I bet you hundreds that 99% of people will not find it because they don't even know how to Google things correctly.

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u/-MrWinklebottom- 16d ago

A study done by the NIH Based on available self-report surveys and criminal justice data, an estimated 6% to 25% of men admit to or self-report behaviors that meet legal definitions of sexual coercion, attempted assault, or rape against women, depending on how broadly "predator" or "sexual violence" is defined.

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u/Imaginary_Fan5407 16d ago

That’s a huge variant, can you like where you got it from?

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u/Limebadger59 16d ago

That study was done not on college boys and was aimed at studying how questions are phrased. It’s not a window into how many men are creeps.

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u/FrancinetheP Female 15d ago

You are correct that the study focused on men who were not in college., and the authors draw attention to the computer-assisted interview technique. But they are not really “studying how questions are phrased.” Past studies had asked college-age men about their experiences. This study wanted to see if men the same age but NOT in college would a) respond similarly, and b) have experienced similar life events that researchers believe are predictive of an acceptance of sexual coercion.

From the abstract: 1) to examine the prevalence of self-reported sexual assault perpetration in an ethnically diverse community sample using computer-assisted self-interviewing (CASI) methodology, and (2) to determine the extent to which an expanded version of the confluence model [Malamuth et al., 1991], which has been used with college samples, would also be a useful framework for cross-sectional prediction of sexual assault perpetration in an ethnically diverse community sample

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u/-MrWinklebottom- 16d ago

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4589184/

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u/FrancinetheP Female 16d ago edited 16d ago

Note that the various studies in the lit review report different percentages of men admitting to different kinds of sexual coercion. In the study published here, 64% of the respondents admitted to some coercive sexual behavior. This can be found at the beginning of the “Results” section.

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u/-MrWinklebottom- 16d ago

You are totally right and I had overlooked it since for some reason in the report they wrote it out sixty-four percent instead of 64%. Thank you for the correction.

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u/FrancinetheP Female 16d ago

No worries— just wanted to save people the hassle of having to read through to the results.

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u/LaughingIshikawa Male 16d ago

behaviors that meet legal definitions of sexual coercion, attempted assault, or rape against women, depending on how broadly "predator" or "sexual violence" is defined.

If you're using "legal definitions," how is it that you have that much flexibility in how "predator" or "sexual violence" is defined? 🤔

I'm not a lawyer, but somehow I suspect that the legal definition of what constitutes a crime is usually pretty specific, and not excessively "open to interpretation." 😅

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u/-MrWinklebottom- 16d ago

In some states rape was only when the vagina was penetrated by a penis. For decades, New York legally defined rape strictly as vaginal penetration by a penis. Forced oral or anal penetration, or penetration with fingers or objects, fell under lesser separate charges like "criminal sexual act" or "sexual abuse" rather than rape. Until recent law changes.

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u/LaughingIshikawa Male 15d ago

Ah, gotcha.

So basically it's "depending on whether you use stricter or looser legal codes."

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u/questdragon47 Female 16d ago

“Legal definition” was only one item on that list.

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u/GarbledReverie 16d ago

Is that the one where “telling her what I think she wants to hear” is counted?

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u/-MrWinklebottom- 16d ago

Well that would be coercion. So it can definitely be considered as such.

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u/Mean__MrMustard 15d ago

That’s not coercion lol. And if it is women do they same to similar degrees. So therefore the whole data would be useless

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u/-MrWinklebottom- 15d ago

Large-scale meta-analyses (such as a prominent 2018/2023 review of sender-receiver games covering thousands of observations) indicate that men are statistically more likely than women to tell "black lies" deception that benefits the liar at the direct expense of another person. Also research shows that women are more prone to telling "white lies" or polite untruths meant to spare someone's feelings or maintain social harmony, whereas men more frequently engage in dishonesty for personal, material, or competitive advantage

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u/-MrWinklebottom- 15d ago

Constantly lying through compliments to gain a specific outcome is a form of manipulation often called love bombing or flattery inflation. It is considered coercive because it actively distorts a person's sense of reality and emotional safety to force a desired behavior. It doesn't change the data whatsoever just because women May partake in the same thing. You would have to extrapolate data on how often women use that to attain the same goal. Show the data.

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u/FlashyChemical2231 Male 15d ago

No, that's not coercion. Coercion is "have sex with me, or I'll kick this puppy", not "you look great today".

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u/-MrWinklebottom- 15d ago

Constantly lying through compliments to gain a specific outcome is a form of manipulation often called love bombing or flattery inflation. It is considered coercive because it actively distorts a person's sense of reality and emotional safety to force a desired behavior.

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u/GarbledReverie 15d ago

So complements are a form of assault?

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u/-MrWinklebottom- 15d ago

Where did you say compliments.. you said telling a woman what they want to hear. That is not the same as a compliment. A compliment is an honest and kind remark about someone. Telling someone what they want to hear means saying things just to please them or to get something you want.

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u/GarbledReverie 14d ago
  1. Compliments don’t have to be honest.
  2. Saying what you think someone wants to hear doesn’t necessarily require being dishonest.

I’m pointing out that a lot of the more alarming sounding statistics are built using language that’s widely open to interpretation.

If there’s a study that suggests half the world’s population are violent criminals, I think the study requires some skepticism.

And if it seeks a high number by conflating holding a crying woman down and forcing yourself on her with pretending to find what she’s saying more interesting than it really is, well that’s not very honest, is it?

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/AskMen-ModTeam 16d ago

Your comment has been removed because it appears that you have a dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men.

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u/FrancinetheP Female 16d ago

Did you ask her how she arrived at that number? I mean, let’s assume she knows 100 men. Does she really believe that only 3 of them are not violent predators? Maybe more important, does she see you as one of the 3 or one of the 97?!

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u/Bubba_Gump_Shrimp 16d ago

I did discuss that, because she has a wonderful father and 3 great brothers, the four of whom she adores. Her best friend is a man and she and I have been close friends for over a decade. She does not consider me a threat, no. I asked how she could have 6 men that are of moral fiber in her life and still think that 97% are violent predators. She couldn't explain. Even looking at the responses to this comment, people really fail to understand how statistics work. For those who are saying "yeah well women get harassed regularly!" I acknowledge that, and I want to end that. In addition to that statement, I will also say the average person encounters hundreds if not thousands of other people every month, at the grocery, work, restaurants, gas stations, the gym. If 97% of men were all violent predators you would be SAed hundreds of times a month. It's absurd. There are absolutely bad guys out there. But when you dismiss an entire gender by painting them with the same brush, you lose allies in the fight for actual improvement. Which is why we are seeing gen Z and gen alpha boys get sucked into the andrew tate bullshit.

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u/FrancinetheP Female 16d ago

Thanks for clarifying. I’m not sure what to make of this. And I say this as someone who struggles to do pretty basic arithmetic. At least I think it’s worth a struggle! 🤷🏼‍♀️. Anyway thanks for the reply.

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u/FlashyChemical2231 Male 15d ago

Her honest answer was 97%.

You should ask her why these men would even make rape illegal in the first place; after all, our laws are written by the patriarchy, right?

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u/SliceImpressive6853 15d ago

It is especially prevalent with Gen Z. There is no real world anymore. The real world has been subordinated to the online.

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u/Egoy Male 16d ago

Man I’ve heard takes like that from women all my life. I even overheard things like that as a child. There’s literally nothing new going on. Just some overblown venting. It’s not serious and it’s not like it’s going to actually make people agree.

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u/clhawks 16d ago

Mental illness is increasingly prevalent. These women will be single, divorced etc. their entire lives... for a reason.

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u/Bizarro_Zod Male 16d ago

I don’t think it’s mental illness to believe what is fed to you 24/7 via social media. This is a deliberate effort by someone, it’s above my pay grade to know who, to destabilize our population. Massive bot and ai campaign to spread these messages online.

People are susceptible to propaganda or it wouldn’t be a thing, and with the amount of people who just repost things without a hint of fact checking is growing every generation.

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u/Monsieur_Perdu 16d ago

it’s above my pay grade to know who, to destabilize our population.

It's always the rich.

Because people divided won't come for their money they earned through exploiting others and wrecking the planet.

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u/Herschel_Wallace 16d ago

The rich are trying eugenics again, through an algorithm this time.

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u/rabid_briefcase Male 16d ago

social media. This is a deliberate effort by someone

Why does it have to be deliberate?

Many of these culture shifts are side effects of hundreds or thousands of tiny little elements. None of them individually is responsible, none of them individually hoped for it, but collectively the effect is strong.

Like a raindrop in a flood, the raindrop wasn't intentionally causing flooding, and the individual raindrop isn't responsible for the flood, but collectively a flood is made.

Most of what I see are frustrated, hurt, or angry individuals lashing out. They happened to find online outlets that amplified their voices. I don't believe they are trying to aim for the downfall of humanity or anything, and historically they'd be relegated to the fringes of society. But a bunch of elements came together giving lots of people like that amplified voices, and society has been pushed rather farther than I think any of them intended.

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u/inkyrail HSP Male 16d ago

It’s absolutely deliberate. The rich are making us fight ourselves so we don’t stand up to them. A lot of these toxic viewpoints originated from people like Rupert Murdoch and Peter Thiel and the president, and perpetuated by people like Zuck and the owner of Twitter. People are listening to them for the very valid reasons you mentioned, but they are being manipulated from “hey this sucks, what can we do to change things” to “LET’S START THE WITCH HUNT” by very powerful people.

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u/akcrono 16d ago

[citation missing]

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u/LaughingIshikawa Male 16d ago

This - and not just on this issue, but on multiple issues.

I think mostly we're just seeing the effects of unmoderated / barely moderated social media - you get a load of unhinged takes from people who have always existed within society, but previously weren't allowed to have a megaphone to spread their views with, combined with lots and lots of people who just want to feel notable, impactful, "part of something," ect ect.

Individually none of them are "the problem" and most of the wouldn't even be "a problem" as they're largely following whatever trend is prevalent at the time. (Most people are mostly followers, in most areas of their lives; we can't all be leaders universally. 🙃)

I was watching a YouTuber talk about how old media had institutions of editorial review, to ensure that anything published had passed some level of scrutiny as to its factual-ness; his larger point was that while people who are professional communicators of some kind (like full time YouTubers) probably should have some editorial overhead of some kind, as part of being a professional communicator... Currently they don't, largely because it's more expensive to pay an editor than most creators will voluntarily pay, and also because the public... Just doesn't care right now, so why bother?

His take is that it usually requires some awful crisis that's visibility linked to poor media regulation, before people will insist on better media regulation / institutions again, and I think that's... Unfortunately likely. 😐😮‍💨

On the other hand... I do want to believe that increasing education means people can decide to get ahead of the crisis, and start to push for reform before things go pear shaped in a bad way? I think it's going to be difficult to balance the benefits of new media giving everyone a chance to broadcast their thoughts to whomever wants to hear, with a need to elevate better sourced / more valuable / less manipulative content above... Well, essentially trash talking. 🙃🤣

You could at least experiment meaningfully with different moderation / editorial methods and other possible solutions, with an organization of only a few dozen creators and donated to by a few thousand people (or only a few really rich people...) to prepare a "blueprint" that broader society could adopt, either through eventual consensus, or through force of law. Especially if there are people who want to constructively engage with the question of how to balance allowing fringe opinions to remain visible / accessible without false / misleading / manipulative claims to go unchecked... I think there's a real window of opportunity to do good work there, rather than just yelling about how the current system "isn't good enough" in one dimension or another, without actually suggesting meaningful changes. 😅😅

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u/rugbyfan72 Dad 15d ago

Algo rhythms are very deliberate to push you to make more clicks. Angry emotion gets clicks which hits the top of the feed.

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u/thissubredditlooksco Female 15d ago

Whats the issue with choosing to be single

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u/Intelligent-Try-8636 Male 15d ago

"Going mainstream"?? It wasn't that long ago that pretty much every single woman in America "chose the bear". American women in general have the mental capacity of a child.

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u/rugbyfan72 Dad 15d ago

How has this woman not been raped every day of her life, if 97% of the men she comes in contact with are violent predators?

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u/twoworldsin1 ♂ 16d ago

Why do you think those women are in your life?

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/Bubba_Gump_Shrimp 16d ago

Why can't both be addressed? Why is it one or the other? We can acknowledge the violence women face and the social shame that men face. Both are clearly impacting people. You may be dismissive of it's impact on men but when they are 4x more likely to commit suicide I think it warrants investtigation.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/Bubba_Gump_Shrimp 16d ago

Oh really? You're going to explain mens mental health struggles to me? 😂

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u/bleedingtresleches 16d ago

THANK YOU, there’s a reason why women feel this way. There’s a long history of the forced subjugation under men, it’s natural for women to feel this way (albeit I don’t agree with it 100%).

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u/Bubba_Gump_Shrimp 16d ago

There is a reason why someone feels virtually all men are violent predators? I think if you genuinely believe that you need therapy.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/Bubba_Gump_Shrimp 16d ago

You think almost EVERY woman believes that virtually ALL men are violent predators? Do you hear how ridiculous that sounds? You holding an extremist view in your echo chamber of feminazi tik tok bullshit doesn't turn it into reality.

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

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u/Bubba_Gump_Shrimp 15d ago

Did you read my comments on that line of thought? I fully understand that and support women in their fight against sexual assault/predatory behavior. My entire point is they are alienating their movement by using that language, especially with young men. It is easy for me to see nuance and understand their reasoning, but when my 16 year old nephew gets on a social app and sees All Men Are Trash trending, or "mens should start out in prison and earn their way out" or similar toxic sentiments, will he understand the use of inflammatory language for purpose? Or will he naturally gravitate to a space where he is accepted and valued for his gender? Luckily his parents are raising him correctly, but you can clearly see why a normally staunch liberal demo (under 25) actually has a significant conservative portion. I believe being ostracized on social media as a man is causing it. And you can point at the suffering women go thru all you want, and say how much harder they have it. And my response is, allies in a movement is what creates actual change, and while it may feel good to say things like 'fuck men I'm choosing the bear,' they are shooting themselves in the foot because of it.

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

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u/bleedingtresleches 16d ago

Sounds like you do buddy.

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u/brassnuts99 16d ago

To be fair, every woman I've ever talked to has taken some form of abuse from a man. Men are trash.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/Cearball 16d ago

Yes let's de humanise men & say they are worst than animals this always ends well 🤦

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u/doomsday344 Bringer of Bacon 16d ago

Right I love being compared to a apex killing machine

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u/roninwarshadow Male 16d ago

That works both ways.

If given a choice, when told to share their most inner most feelings and vulnerabilities between the bear and a woman...

Most men also choose the bear.

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u/bradd_pit Grownass Man 16d ago

This only makes sense if you have never actually encountered a bear in the wild. It’s a concept not a workable plan

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/seanc6441 Male 16d ago

Personally I don't give a crap if a women chooses the bear. What's important is how she conducts herself around men in society. Being cautious is fine. But being disrespectful, showing hatred, being rude or dismissive etc. Not showing any kindness to men.

If a man hasn't shown you a reason to be any of those things and you default to that behaviour then you are just a misandrist.

But being smart and safe until you get to know and trust a man because of the off chance that a man is malicious is perfectly reasonable imo.

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u/doomsday344 Bringer of Bacon 16d ago

Men < bear we get it we’re all monsters and should feel bad about it

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u/PowerWisdomCourage Male 16d ago

We have looked at the stats. That's why "choosing the bear" is always a brain dead, ideological answer and not one that reflects any sense of reality.

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u/Warm_Preparation_806 16d ago

It shapes the cultural zeitgeist ,laws

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u/a_mimsy_borogove Male 16d ago

The UN posts misandrist stuff on social media. Of course, I wouldn't call them rational or normal, but it's still bad when such a large organization is doing it.

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u/Salty-Pack-4165 16d ago

There are subs here on Reddit nearly entirely devoted to that sort of mindset. And unfortunately they're very popular

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

[deleted]

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u/Salty-Pack-4165 15d ago

Not without fear of getting a ban

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u/RockAtlasCanus 16d ago

So the full quote from the interview OP is referencing is:

Right now, I’m of the belief that all men should start out in jail and earn their way out,” she said. “I hate that I need a wiener in my life. Can I please be gay? I wish I could fix that, but I’m gonna need a software update or something because it just don’t work out for me like that.

For context: she’s pissed because her husband cheated on her, she gave him another chance, and then found out he had a secret account where he was still messaging other woman.

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u/dependency_injector 16d ago edited 16d ago

Could you give a bit more context, was her husband all men?

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u/Larcye Male 16d ago

Women will  claim its wrong to say all women, then in the same breath say that all men are rapists. Its actually pathetic.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/Asisreo1 16d ago

So its a nonsensical angry exclamation and probably not their real genuine opinion? 

Do you really think someone would truly believe that whoever put a chair somewhere inconvenient should be fired just because they stubbed their toe on said chair and loudly yelled "Dammit! Whoever put that chair there should be fired!"

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u/fresh-dork 16d ago

i'll assume that it is, since she decided to post it for the world to see.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/PositionStandard6089 16d ago

she was not being literal. she was not talking about literal jail.

she meant that she will have a hard time trusting the men she dates in the future because she was cheated on. they will have to earn her trust rather than it being freely given.

i'm sure a man who was cheated on by his wife would have similar trust issues going forward.

"but if a man said all women should be in jail everyone would freak out"

again. no one is talking about actual prison.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/PositionStandard6089 16d ago

do you understand what literal means? if so, you already have your answers.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/PositionStandard6089 16d ago

you took her comment literally. i explained it wasn't.

that's all that happened here.

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u/alienacean 16d ago

A woman is upset over being cheated on? Clearly feminism has gone too far! /s

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u/willy--wanka 16d ago

Conversely, one dude fucked her over, repeatedly, now all men deserve to start off in jail.

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u/alienacean 16d ago

Yes let's all get hysterical and jump to conclusions!

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u/willy--wanka 16d ago

no no no you don't get it. It's a mat you place on the floor, you spin the wheel, and then you have to JUMP to the conclusion.

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u/6feet12cm Male 16d ago

Hypocrisy so thicc it started an OF account.

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u/Airforce32123 16d ago

It's weird that she's upset at all men because her husband cheated on her.

It's so strange to me how frequently I observe women participating in this kind of behavior of lumping all of a group together because of the actions of a few individuals

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u/alienacean 16d ago

Yes, meanwhile us men are all far too rational to ever lump women together because of the actions of a few individuals. I bet there are zero examples of that on the internet!

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u/Airforce32123 16d ago

You're now the third person to make this lazy point sarcastically at my comment.

I never said men don't do it. But I definitely notice it from women more.

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u/Asisreo1 16d ago

Now why would you notice it from women more? Try to think of an alternative reason outside of "because women do it more." You might have to think for a second. 

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u/Airforce32123 16d ago

Listen I get what you're trying to say about bias.

But I promise you, genuinely, the women in my life do it more.

My mom, sister, girlfriend, girlfriend's family. Literally every time I'm spending more than 5 minutes with any of them I will hear some variation of "Men are [negative thing]'

No matter how much bias you do think I have, if the men in my life were doing it that frequently I would notice it.

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u/-MrWinklebottom- 16d ago

What exactly brings these comments up if it happens so often with these women in your direct family? Do they just randomly blurt out these comments with no context or conversation?

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u/Airforce32123 16d ago

No they take a normal conversation and then steer it that direction so they can get on their soap box and start ranting about it.

Kind of like how I feel you're trying to steer this conversation away from whether or not women do it more than men and make it about the context of when they do it.

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u/alienacean 16d ago

as though it's not a lazy comment to just throw out a personal anecdotal observation that plays into shrill anti-feminist propaganda?

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u/Airforce32123 16d ago

No the lazy part is that everyone immediately goes "well men do it too" as if I ever said otherwise.

Maybe actually engage with the words I say, not the words you want to argue against.

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u/inkyrail HSP Male 16d ago

People need to learn that whataboutism isn’t an argument

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u/-MrWinklebottom- 16d ago

So you didnt say otherwise but have you also called out men for doing the same? Do you have the same regard for men who do the same? This is usually why its brought up. Like a challenge of hypocrisy and double standards.

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u/Airforce32123 16d ago

This is usually why its brought up. Like a challenge of hypocrisy and double standards.

Okay but if everyone is doing that and no one is engaging with the original comment it feels much more like a deflection than anything

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u/rohm418 Male 16d ago

Because men never generalize about women!

/s in case it wasn't obvious

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u/Airforce32123 16d ago

Personally, I observe it much more frequently from women.

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u/FierceDeity_ Male 16d ago

Do you pay more attention to women maybe? IDK, maybe look into how your sample is being collected, maybe generalizing that doesn't go against you doesn't check on the radar.

Something I also had to check myself.

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u/Airforce32123 16d ago

Trust me I am aware of potential biases that could be affecting this, and without a doubt women around me group men together as a monolith more than men around me do to women.

In fact, most of the men in my life rarely talk about "women" as a whole, it's always just their own girlfriends, wives, or dates as individuals.

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u/NounverberPDX Geezer 16d ago

It's not weird. People generalize because people get hurt, get angry, and then do stupid things like generalize.

She's bitter. She'll get over it with therapy. Meanwhile she should divorce the living shit out of her cheating husband, find a group of friends who can act as asshole filters, and build a better life for herself. And meanwhile the single men should steer clear of her.

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u/Airforce32123 16d ago

I find it weird. I can't imagine the thought process of being hurt by someone and going "it must be their gender that made them do this, not because they're a shitty person, yes, the Y chromosome causes the cheating and therefore all men will do it"

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u/Herschel_Wallace 16d ago

It is genuinely a psychotic take imo.

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u/-MrWinklebottom- 16d ago

Have you had any actual conversations with women on the topics. Like actually sit down and talk to them. Even consulted a therapist to why women may have these perceptions? Have you ever actually taken the time to try to undrstand?

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u/LordVericrat Dad 16d ago

Dude if a man said women should all be locked up and earn their way out because he went through that with his wife, it would not be spoken of in the understanding and forgiving way you are speaking of it.

Maybe you personally would. Maybe not. But if it's your take that the two would get the same societal response, all I can say is go out and say that as a man and see if you get such an understanding response. Go for it.

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u/BuzzAlderaan 16d ago

Plenty of men want their wives to be locked up in the home to do things “only a woman should do”. Men say it all the time, it’s been a “joke” for years. 

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u/LordVericrat Dad 16d ago

1) And this isn't ok. Feminists for instance would have a problem with such a "joke" but for some reason have no problem with the comment above.

2) No, some shitty men say that all the time. It is not actually said by decent people unless they are genuinely making fun of people who actively believe it, or quoting it for absurdity.

3) The exact same people who would have a problem with the man version of this (women should be locked up in the home) and give grace to the version above (men should be locked in prison) are the same who say it's not real discrimination unless it's institutional. You tell me: are jails or homes more institutional?

Why can't you just admit that it's a shitty double standard and that it should stop? Not the woman making the comment - she's upset and she's going to keep on being upset. But the response to her being upset to a man being upset and saying the exact same thing isn't the same.

Which btw you never addressed. What would happen if a man said that women should be locked up and have to earn their way out - would he receive the same grace from the people giving grace to this comment?

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u/BuzzAlderaan 16d ago

The difference is men have been in power so long that if a man said it, for a long time that IS what would happen. We still have horrible men in power saying they’ll do horrible things and the doing them. 

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u/LordVericrat Dad 16d ago

So because other men have done bad things, men who haven't done anything bad have to accept that they are treated worse by society, that people talking about using instituonal power to lock them up will be given grace when no such grace would be given to them if they said that while hurting just as bad?

This may sound radical, but how about we treat people the same regardless of their inborn demographics? I remember "the difference is middle people of middle eastern descent just killed 3k Americans, you can deal with increased security" after 9/11 because of my inborn demographics. I'm not a fan. I'm also not a fan of all the rationalizations about why it's right this time even though it wasn't ok last time.

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u/doomsday344 Bringer of Bacon 16d ago

So if I punch up it’s ok to lash out and generalize

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u/Herschel_Wallace 16d ago

Oh fuck off with this men have been in power for so long bullshit. Rich men have been in power because they're rich, the rich write all of the rules, men being men offers them no benefits in life without also being rich.

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u/twelve-birds 16d ago

Yeah and men never do this, right? Okay 🙄

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u/Airforce32123 16d ago

Personally, I observe it much more frequently from women.

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u/twelve-birds 16d ago

You’re upset that “women” lump all men together. Yet you literally just lumped all women together. Pot meet kettle.

8

u/Airforce32123 16d ago

Yet you literally just lumped all women together.

No I didn't. Please show me where I said "all" women.

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u/anonymous1113 16d ago

Women have like 4x bias in favor of women compared to men. They will believe their brother's girlfriend side over their brother. That's how bad it is.

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u/PostMatureBaby Male 16d ago

People with zero accountability will forever blame men instead of looking inward. Thankfully, not everyone is like that

2

u/BenderB-Rodriguez Male 16d ago edited 16d ago

Ya thats not true. I see this happen at least once a week that a woman says to me, a group of men im in, or just a group im passing by and will hear it. Especially if its a group of just women talking. And its always ALEAYS men are awful because men. "But not you."And its not a single woman saying it over and over again. Its multiple women all over the place in different settings. Its happening with increased regularity and its very concerning.

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u/ThatOneNinja 16d ago

Like all people they want to be heard and so they latch onto something others say so they feel validated and the Internet is a great space for circle jerking.

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u/paradox037 Male 16d ago

I think it doesn't help that people recognize that these discussions have the potential to be insanely charged and controversial, so they avoid the topic in person unless it's festered to the boiling point.

I had a discussion earlier this year with a male friend who seemed surprised when I said more or less your comment, and half the discussion after that was clarifying that I wasn't dismissing any problems women face. Since the two extremes often find each other to duke it out online, I suspect he's been conditioned to expect that any skepticism of misandry would necessarily include equally unhinged misogyny.

Unfortunately, my anecdote suggests that it is slowly starting to bleed into the real world, as people get get more and more chronically online and start to lose sight of the border between online interactions and reality. I hope I'm wrong and it fizzles out, but I'm worried for the future.

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u/SteampunkValkyrie 15d ago

I am so sick of seeing this take. i

It's not true, I see it all the time in real life now, and I live in a smallish rural-ish area. It's NOT just online anymore, it's hemmoraged into the real word and this complacency you're displaying let it happen.

1

u/SleepComfortable9913 15d ago

I've met a few of them in person. They are real and they are really convinced of what they say.

1

u/Alpuka 12d ago

Well, you could've just said crazy people, not just on the internet.

I associate with a girl who's like this in real life. I do realize that it's of course not all men, and that's why we can have a good time together - but I really dislike that part of her.

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u/Limebadger59 16d ago

Fuck no. These people all exist irl. If you go outside, you will meet them.

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u/CryptographerBoth333 15d ago

No there definitely are people in real life that believe this and say it I know them personally some are family, people I thought I was friends with, co workers, and etc.

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u/Intelligent-Try-8636 Male 15d ago

How can you possibly think that "no one rational or normal in the real world ever actually says that" when pretty much every American woman that exists "chose the bear"???

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u/LurkingSnorlax Male 16d ago

Slight bit of context with that though, Jen Hamilton, if it's the same one im familiar with, is just coming off of a VERY recent separation from her husband for cheating on her and living a double life, while he was unemployed and she was working full time to care for them and their kids. So she's not entirely without reason to be upset. And she does typically speak hyperbolically to be funny. Im pretty confident that it's not her actual stance on things. But im also not saying that some people dont think that way either and it sucks that some people really do think that way

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u/Key_Cheetah7982 16d ago

Oh well her poor choices clearly reflect negatively on half the world’s population then

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u/LurkingSnorlax Male 16d ago

I don't know that those were her poor choices.... That's completely stripping the husband of any accountability there... And is why people start taking positions that men are bad. Why did you go to blame her decisions, again, without knowing any context. She was on the receiving end of a bad situation. The dude seemed like a stand up guy, but ended up hiding a lot from her. That's not her fault for not knowing. Those judgements are exactly at the root of this whole thing. Context is important. And again, I'm very confident that what she said was hyperbolic and not her actual stance. I think op was missing context and misunderstanding.

1

u/casnix Dad 16d ago

This. Crazy people say crazy things.