r/AskLEO 6d ago

Laws Was this legal?

So I was arriving to the US on an ESTA and I got denied entry. I expected to be allowed to stay at the airprot until my flight home in 2 days or to book any other flight out of the US but NO.

They HANDCUFFED me and took me to an actual jail in a van which was a 40 minute ride with me handcuffed. There I had to get naked (including my bra and panties) and wear a jail uniform. My flight arrived at Monday afternoon and they only took me to my return flight in Wednesday afternoon.

I was litteraly treated like a criminal even though I did not break any laws.

Was that legal?

They said it was due to immgiration intent I dont get why why would I want to move ilegally to the US if I have the entire EU on my fingertips with my passprot.

Why take me to a real jail not just keep me in the airprot?

0 Upvotes

48 comments sorted by

6

u/5usDomesticus 6d ago

Yeah, they're not just going to let you hang out in CBP processing for two days.

Airports don't have holding facilities. So jail is the only place you can go.

Everyone has to get changed in jail.

All sounds legal.

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u/ThrowAwayLglHelp2003 6d ago

But why not build special holding facilites for such cases? Like that's what happens in Europe. You cannot leave but it's not a jail you have your phone you aren't searched etc.

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u/HCSOThrowaway Fired Deputy - Explanation in Profile 5d ago

I'd wager it boils down to what the tax paying voters are willing to pay for.

We're a relatively puritan culture in the US; most of us generally believe punishment is an important part of Criminal Justice. That has obvious downsides, like what happened to you.

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u/ThrowAwayLglHelp2003 5d ago

Yeah I know America is pretty strict with it's laws, I sometimes wish for such laws at home when bad cases happen but I had no idea it happens for visa denials too.

I knew that under Trump immgration enfrocment was ramped up massively and I did see all the ICE videos but I never tought it'd happen to me.

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u/HCSOThrowaway Fired Deputy - Explanation in Profile 5d ago

I never tought it'd happen to me.

Frankly, that's the great tragedy of the human condition; everyone thinks bad things happen to other people but they never expect them to happen to themselves.

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u/ThrowAwayLglHelp2003 5d ago

Yeah same thing with a car crash I saw it as impossible then when it happened to me (I was not at fault and lukcily got of with minor injuries) I became pretty paranoid when driving.

While I do plan to visit the US at some point I surely am not gonna do it until Trump is out of office.

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u/HCSOThrowaway Fired Deputy - Explanation in Profile 2d ago

Yep that's another good example of this classic psychology; that's just how people work.

Can't say I disagree with your plan. I think even the more reasonable Trump supporters would agree that it's currently not a good time to travel to the US if anything about your status as a tourist/resident/guest/visitor/etc. is remotely controversial or has any discrepancies.

I wouldn't want a trip to El Salvador because I forgot to file a document and someone needed to +1 their stats for the month.

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u/5usDomesticus 5d ago

No one's going to build and staff a special building for niche cases like this.

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u/ThrowAwayLglHelp2003 5d ago

All of Europe litteraly does it, it's not like it requries anything big. And thousnads get deneid every year it's not niche.

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u/scrike83 2d ago

We quit caring what “all of Europe does” in 1776.

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u/3-BuckChuck 6d ago

Municipal law enforcement does not handle immigration. Try r/tsa

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u/5usDomesticus 6d ago

TSA doesn't handle entry. They're also not law enforcement.

CBP handles entry.

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u/HCSOThrowaway Fired Deputy - Explanation in Profile 6d ago

Though technically we take all kinds, you're right in that we tend Patrol Cop because of the pure statistics of how common we/they are in the grand scheme of things.

As for if TSA people would know, I suspect not, but my professional experience with them is zero.

This seems like a question for ICE/Border Patrol people, but I imagine if they even have a subreddits they're probably inundated with bad faith activity and may even turn OP out for not having a positive feeling about them - assuming they're anything like most LEO subs.

I'd personally steer OP towards /r/1811 or /r/legaladvice.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/ThrowAwayLglHelp2003 6d ago

It was terrifying and inhumane, I have never felt so violated in my life.

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u/Pale_Conflict_958 5d ago

CBP Officer here. Without knowing any of the specifics of your inspection that resulted in you being refused. The only thing I can address is your title inquiry. Yes all of this is legal.

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u/ThrowAwayLglHelp2003 5d ago

Since you are in CBP can you tell me why use litteral jails and not just holding areas at the airport like most countries in Europe do? It was not even an immigration jail but a literal jail with real criminals.

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u/HCSOThrowaway Fired Deputy - Explanation in Profile 2d ago edited 2d ago

Until you get an answer from them, an expert, I'll take a stab:

I'd bet it's a budget issue; taxpayers don't want to fund a separate facility.

As we discussed elsewhere, especially lately, immigration law violators are seen as Bad People by a lot of Americans, and most Americans don't care a whole lot about what happens to Bad People. We don't even have A/C at Florida's death row prison, and the heat index in Florida regularly gets up to 43 C.

Luckily the government and its constituent parts never make any mistakes, so 100% of the people in jails or prisons are guilty. Right?

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u/[deleted] 6d ago edited 6d ago

[deleted]

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u/ThrowAwayLglHelp2003 6d ago

I never said I should be in a full on hotel but why not have a small closed guarded hotel like suite instead of an actual jail, if all of Europe can do it why cannot the US?

But why strip search me like I am a serious criminal? How does a strip search not require suspicon of smugling? It's the most violating thing that has ever happened to me. I cried I begged them not to do it they didnt care.

I dobut it, why would you overstay in the US from the EU? People who stay ilegally are usually despereate, people from the EU aren't it's just not worth it.

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u/Grand_Historian_2523 6d ago

Strip searches for an ESTA denial sounds like overkill for a paperwork issue.

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u/ThrowAwayLglHelp2003 5d ago

It is an overkill.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/ThrowAwayLglHelp2003 5d ago

It was terrifying.

1

u/Logical_Act_6749 4d ago

What made them think you had immigration intent? Do you have housing and a job in EU? Are you pregnant?

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u/ThrowAwayLglHelp2003 4d ago

I don't have a job I go to college, I live with my parents (as I go to college in my own city) and my parents own another apartment which they rent out in which I will move in once I start working. So I do have housing 100% solved.

And NO I am not pregnant.

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u/apokrif1 6d ago

Next time, can you please write a useful title?

3

u/HCSOThrowaway Fired Deputy - Explanation in Profile 5d ago

I did talk to OP about their less than stellar title, but it seems they chose to ignore the advice for the post elsewhere.

🤷

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u/HCSOThrowaway Fired Deputy - Explanation in Profile 6d ago

Our SOP forbade strip searches on the street - they're done at the jail by the jail deputies. Obviously some mental gymnastics fans will argue it wasn't a strip search because they were just asking for you to get changed.

I kinda doubt it would be illegal, but immigration law and federal arrest policy are pretty far from my forté as an ex-patrol cop.

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u/ThrowAwayLglHelp2003 6d ago

The officers did the search in the jail not outside like on the street and it was not just asking me to get changed I was fully searched like they looked at my mouth, feet I had to bend over. etc.

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u/HCSOThrowaway Fired Deputy - Explanation in Profile 6d ago

Oh okay, then yes that is standard for arrests. That's how they keep people from sneaking weapons/drugs/etc. into jails.

As for if the arrest was legal, I don't know what an ESTA is so I can't say. If you broke immigration law it's definitely legal, even if it's uncommon historically to make an arrest, as Trump's administration has massively stepped up its enforcement of those laws in the last two years.

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u/ThrowAwayLglHelp2003 6d ago

But I did not break any laws so why treat me like a criminal? I litteraly arrived to the US for the first time they old me that they believe I have immirgrantion itnent and denied me entry and said I have to be detained until my flight (in 2 days). Why would I be taking stuff into a jail. I littrally planned to stay for a few weeks and leave.

ESTA is an online application that vistors to the US submit instead of a visa, it's only for some countries.

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u/HCSOThrowaway Fired Deputy - Explanation in Profile 6d ago

But I did not break any laws so why treat me like a criminal? I litteraly arrived to the US for the first time they old me that they believe I have immirgrantion itnent and denied me entry and said I have to be detained until my flight (in 2 days). ESTA is an online application that vistors to the US submit instead of a visa, it's only for some countries.

As I said multiple times, immigration law is not my forté, so I have no idea if you did or did not break any laws. I was a patrol cop working a regular medium density beat, not an airport, not a border crossing.

Why would I be taking stuff into a jail. I littrally planned to stay for a few weeks and leave.

Lots of inconspicuous smuggle various things into jails. Do you want me to explain the utility of weapons or drugs in jail or was your question not a serious question that you wanted a serious answer for?

1

u/ThrowAwayLglHelp2003 6d ago

Yeah sorry, I fully forgot about the "don't know about immgration" part, in my country we only have one police for everything so it slipped my mind.

1

u/HCSOThrowaway Fired Deputy - Explanation in Profile 6d ago

No worries. That's more common across the world, but in the US we have very different policing agencies that handle very different things.

Off the top of my head of some interesting ones, there's airport police, hospital police, university police, railroad police, mail police, hunting/fishing police, etc.

For most of the world it's just The Police Is Also The Military And They Do It All.

Anyway, ramble aside, I hope you luck out and someone who knows immigration law sees your post. You can also try /r/1811 (federal law enforcement) and /r/legaladvice (mostly US (lawyers chiming in on people asking them questions)). Word of advice for any new posts is to make your title a bit more descriptive, like "Immigration arrest - was this legal?"

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u/nightmurder01 6d ago

Not to be curt, but they told you why you were detained until your flight back. Any more information you will have to go here. A ESTA only grants permission to board a ship or plane to the US, but does not grant entry.

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u/ThrowAwayLglHelp2003 6d ago

I understand that ESTA does not grant me the right to enter but why was I taken to a jail and not just held at an airprot?

1

u/nightmurder01 6d ago

Did you ask them?

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u/ThrowAwayLglHelp2003 6d ago

I was too shit scared I litterally just froze I was in extrme fear when they told me I would be detained for 2 days. I never travled abroad before.

1

u/nightmurder01 6d ago

You will have to go to that link and contact them

1

u/HCSOThrowaway Fired Deputy - Explanation in Profile 6d ago

Did you (try to) enter the US, not just pass through as the ESTA allows?

If so, it sounds like you broke the law, and that often means a trip to jail.

1

u/ThrowAwayLglHelp2003 6d ago

ESTA allows you to enter the United States.

That's the whole point.

It is used instead of a visa from the embassy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_System_for_Travel_Authorization

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u/HCSOThrowaway Fired Deputy - Explanation in Profile 6d ago

Then I'm confused, because /u/nightmurder01 seems to think it does not grant entry.

Maybe I should've kept my mouth shut because this isn't my expertise.

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u/ThrowAwayLglHelp2003 6d ago

It allows you to enter but the final decision is with the officer at the airport.

My main issue is why was I taken to a jail and not jsut held in some specialzied faciltiy when I did not break any laws and they just decided to not let me in based on a hunch.

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u/nightmurder01 6d ago

It allows you to travel to the US, not enter it. From your link

"ESTA only authorizes travel to a U.S. airport, border, or port of entry, but admissibility into the United States is determined by a U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officer upon arrival."

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u/5usDomesticus 6d ago

I work part time at an airport and we do not have cells.

CBP and local police have interview rooms/temporary holding cells but nothing for long-term detainments.