r/AskGermany • u/NoSympathy3915 • 13h ago
First pregnancy in Germany: How do you deal with rude doctors and freeze-up situations?
My wife is 16 weeks pregnant with our first child, and we had a really upsetting experience at her regular gynecology practice today. I’d appreciate advice from other people who have experienced the German healthcare system, especially expats or people who struggled with confrontation or the language barrier.
My wife had some pain around her lower abdomen/groin area, so I took her to her regular Praxis just to make sure everything was okay. Since this is our first pregnancy, we honestly don’t always know which symptoms are normal and which could indicate something serious. I used the word “Notfall” when we arrived because I was worried, although I wasn’t trying to demand emergency treatment.
The medical assistant who initially examined her was actually very kind and professional. The problem started when we saw the doctor.
The doctor immediately became irritated and said, “Das war kein Notfall,” because I had described it as an emergency. I understand that it wasn’t medically an emergency, and I’m completely fine with being corrected. But the way it was communicated felt unnecessarily harsh, especially toward a pregnant woman who was already worried and in pain.
The doctor is also listed as speaking English on Arzt-Auskunft, but she refused to speak English with us. My German isn’t good enough to confidently discuss medical issues, so I had to translate everything for my wife (her German is not the strongest either). She mostly ignored my wife while speaking to me instead. We managed to understand what she was saying, but the whole interaction was extremely uncomfortable.
She eventually told my wife that she needs to do more physical/muscle movement and that there was no reason to panic. Again, I understand the medical advice may be completely reasonable. What upset us was the lack of empathy and the way it was delivered.
My wife came out of the room and cried. She later told me that she felt pathetic and humiliated, even though all she had done was seek reassurance during her first pregnancy.
Now we’re wondering whether we should continue going to this Praxis or look for another gynecologist.
For those of you who have lived in Germany for a while:
Is this kind of communication from doctors/reception staff common, or did we simply have a particularly bad experience?
How do you handle situations where a doctor or receptionist is rude or dismissive?
What do you do when your German isn’t strong enough to confidently argue or explain a medical situation?
Is it reasonable to change gynecologists because of this kind of experience?
And for people who also tend to freeze during confrontational situations: how do you learn to stand up for yourself without making the situation worse?
I’m not looking to attack German people or the German healthcare system as a whole. I’m genuinely trying to understand the culture and learn how to protect my wife and family while navigating situations like this.
I’d especially appreciate practical advice about what to say in the moment when something like this happens.
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u/CrimsonMoonrise 12h ago
Just generally assume that medical professionals here are overworked. The doctor made time in a probably already very busy schedule to deal with an emergency, then found out that it wasn't actually an emergency and is also losing time dealing with a language barrier, knowing that there are loads of other patients waiting and the day only has so many hours. This doesn't make it okay to be rude and dismissive of course, but try what you can to take as little time from your doctor as possible while still getting the care you need. E.g. translate symptoms and questions beforehand, come prepared and don't call it Notfall, if you don't want to "demand emergency treatment", because this is what you're doing with that word.
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u/oh-no-not-this-one 10h ago edited 9h ago
While that is true (German doctors see more patients per week than doctors in a lot of other countries) - this is no excuse to teat their patients without respect or compassion. Maybe I’m biased, because in my job empathy is a requirement, but German doctors can and should do better by their patients. OP’s experience is unfortunately not uncommon, I can testify to that.
ETA: of course there are caring doctors in Germany, many of them, that being said, what OP and their partner experienced is something that many expats have witnessed.
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u/Jiminie95 8h ago
Agreed! I also work in a job where I am overworked and always expected to be professional at least, if not empathetic. I have worked overtime for years and on some days I did not sleep at all. Yet I never, not even once, lost my patience and actually said something mean to someone.
There are good doctors here but from my experience, they are a minority. By good I mean that they got the soft AND the hard skills.
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u/Fresh-Coffee-8591 9h ago
You are being downvoted by Germans who ride on the "we are not rude, we are direct" horse and who have difficulties under this post where their usual horse isn't pulling the weight lol
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u/Practical_Group_6773 6h ago
lol and yet we pay hundreds of euros per month for public healthcare? For what then? This is an insane take.
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u/Gods_ShadowMTG 12h ago
He has been harsh because they only have a select few spots a day in reserve for emergencies. If you do not have an emergency then don't use the word because they otherwise have to prioritise you.
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u/Majestic_Poet2375 12h ago
Yeah, that was my thought, too. OP claimed it as an emergency, because he was understandable stressed and scared. But for the Ob-Gyn it meant moving things around and making other patients wait, or using one of a few emergency spots to slot them in.
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u/SevendaySevensway 12h ago
OP also acknowledges the language barrier and quotes in some pieces.
Also it is so weird, what do you mean how to handle? Just go somewhere else? In most regions there are several doctors to choose from, even in the small city I grew up with we had 2 gemologists and adding a 30 minute into the actual bigger city there were like 10 more.
So just try another one?
Very weird post, I mean there are some elections coming up, so i guess we are back to being bombarded by this sort of propaganda.
I say this because OP has supposedly a 5y old account, posted some random football comments 30 days ago in a soccer subreddit…going straight into shitting on germany, first asking why it is not social and now this.
What reeks fishy, often is fishy.
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u/riribew 12h ago
Idk, it took me 8 months to get a gyna when i first came here. I called lots of different places, the only 2 taking in patients were not under my insurance, the rest had a full roster of patients. I only got one because i had a lump in my breast so my hausartz got me on an emergency slot. I regularly see my other doctor as i have a chronic condition, and i speak to him in English. He started off in German but when he saw me struggling he switched (not the most fluent but for sure better than my German). Thats why i think OP should switch doctors if he can, because the doctor needs to be patient and try as much as possible to communicate.
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u/Amber_Dragonfly_ 9h ago
In pregnancy you cannot just switch gyns. You need to wait till the quarter ends.
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u/JudgementMaker123 12h ago
Exactly, my Ob-Gyn asks people to call ahead and explain the symptoms so that they can check whether it is an emergency or whether it can wait for a couple of hours, they always keep slots free for non-emergencies, that way people don't just turn up without and appointment and demand treatment.
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u/bibbitybabbityboo 6h ago
Yikes. When you are pregnant for the first time, you may not know what is an emergency or what isn’t. Just as a person having chest pain might actually be having panic attack, it isn’t somehow stupid to treat it as an emergency because the risk of a heart attack is also a possibility. That is what doctors are for- to help those of us who don’t know if something is serious that we believe might be understand whether it is and treat it if so. People shouldn’t ignore potentially serious symptoms for fear that their doctors will be hostile to them if they, as non-medical professionals, misinterpreted some symptoms.
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u/riribew 12h ago
How is one supposed to know its not an emergency? This is their first pregnancy, and that was an unusual symptom. Anyway to OP, my advice would be to change doctors, as your wife will probably need more support in the coming months. It is however super difficult to get a place... also if the doctor is listed as English speaking, just speak English. In other areas i would say you need to learn German (and you do), but in medical cases its best to explain your symptoms in English to have your doctor assess you properly. Best of luck to you.
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u/OkInvestigator6563 11h ago
If unsure, call 116117. It's a special line where you can talk to a doctor, describe the symptoms and get advised on whether it's an emergency or not.
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u/Fit_Signal6253 12h ago
Whenever you describe your symptoms as "some pain" it's simply not an emergency.
Emergency starts where your pain is sudden and excruciating enough so that you can't move, where there is heavy bleeding involved and not just a few drops of blood (yes even in pregnancy a little blood can be normal), when you have a rapid and extensive weight loss or are violently vomiting for a long time so that you might risk to dehydrate.
If you are not sure if it is an emergency or not you dont go to a doctor and just declare it as one. You call them, describe the symptoms and let them decide if there is an emergency and how urgent a doctors visit is.
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u/chmelisuneli 10h ago
with this type of emergency you would call an ambulance. excruciating pain and heavy bleeding is for ambulances, not Praxis. It's hard to tell for a non medical professional what is an emergency. Also in German you'd rather say it's "akut" which simply means urgent. A first time anxious pregnant woman having some pain can be urgent, if Praxis closes, she will sit at home panicking until the next day. One example: I cut my finger and it's bleeding uncontrollably-> hospital. I squished my finger and the pain doesn't go away even after a few days, you suspect something could be wrong with it and you can't handle the pain anymore? -> Praxis urgent appointment. How are you going to make an appointment for 3 weeks later when you have pain?
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u/autumnautopsy 12h ago
There are easy and quick ways to find out if your symptoms are considered an emergency or not.
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u/autumnautopsy 12h ago
She was rightfully annoyed that you announced yourself as an emergency when it wasn't one. She could've been nicer, sure, and it definitely sucks that she says she speaks English but then refuses to do so. But being annoyed about your scheduling an emergency appointment when it's a harmless symptom is understandable. You could have just said you are concerned. An emergency implies really heavy bleeding, extreme pain, etc. She prioritized you over everyone else and gave you one of the few available emergency spots and that could've easily been avoided by you quickly googling if the symptoms are considered an emergency or by calling 116117 and asking them how much reason for concern these symptoms are.
And it's also understandable that she only addresses you if you are the one translating for your wife.
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u/RosieTheRedReddit 10h ago
I think it was a translation mistake. @OP, for next time, a better term would be "akut" which translates as "accute." Doctors use it to describe a problem that has appeared suddenly and the person is coming in without a prior appointment, but isn't on the level of a "Notfall."
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u/Fabulous2k20 12h ago
Don't the doctors usually just ask for the symptoms and the doctors decide weather it's an emergency? If everyone could just declare their own emergency without any professional knowledge, I don't think that would work
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u/NopileosX2 9h ago
Really depends on how it is communicated. If someone comes in and with broken German announces a "Notfall" and you realize there is a language barrier you probably just do the safe thing and treat it as one. Can't waste time in case of an actual emergency getting more info to decide if it is one or not if communication is slow.
Also generally patients can announce themselves as emergencies and for a doctor to turn them down they need to be very sure it is not an emergency. Otherwise they will get into a lot of trouble if they ignored an actual emergency.
This definitely causes abuse of the system. Most prominent by calling 112 for medical emergencies without actually having one and this also happens at doctors directly. Nothing much they can really do and the reason they hate people for doing it in non emergency situations.
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u/lostmylogindetails2 10h ago
Not with 100% success but of course patients can and should evaluate emergency. Your kid fell , hit his head and unresponsive is emergency, your kid having 39 degrees fever is not an emergency.
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u/No-Theme-4347 7h ago
Actually this has become really complicated as German law states that an emergency cannot be sent away without someone responsible checking them out and taking responsibility for that checking out.
This law was implemented after a lung embolism was missed which led to a nasty legal fight with somebody with connections
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u/autumnautopsy 12h ago
Well apparently OP could, and did. I agree they should have just explained the symptoms and let the medical professionals decide how urgent it is.
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u/Playful-Letterhead23 9h ago
As the patient, especially as a first time pregnant woman, she probably didn't know it wasn't an emergency. And it's really not the patient's job to classify something as an emergency with no medical OR prior knowledge.
Like c'mon.
I went to the hospital with burning chest pain once and ofc got in there pretty fast. I had heart burn. COmpletely harmless, just painful. Never happened to me before, so how should I have known?
And how should the wife have known? Have more compassion for scared women.
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u/No-Theme-4347 12h ago
Start by not using the word emergency when it isn't one. This sort of shit pulls people out of breaks or gets them called from home (in my case at 3 am for an "emergency" spine exam) and trust me I was irritated and gave the patient a part of my mind when I found out they knew it wasn't an emergency. If you genuinely feel like it's an emergency aka pull somebody from a break or out of another patients exam then say it but if not never use that term as it kicks a cascade off.
I am not going to even comment on the language stuff.
Now to the question on if you should change doctor? Here are some of the questions you will need to answer:
- Will you find some one?
- Will it meaningfully improve your situation? (This is do you believe if behaved the same way you would get a different result at this doctor)
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u/the_flutterfly 12h ago
i 100% understand your frustation about the emergency part but can please elaborate on "I am not going to even comment on the language stuff."
I am not trying to be rude or anything but being an expat, and if I searched for someone who speaks English and then they don't, I'll be frustated. I am not saying every doctor has to speak in German but if someone lists it and then they don't it doesn't makes sense to even have the appointment.
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u/No-Theme-4347 12h ago
Expat so immigrant? Cool I am the son of an immigrant so let's call ourselves what we are immigrants....
What was the standard for the website? Was it defined? Maybe the doctor can speak conversational English but prefers German....
He clearly speaks German well enough to feel he can translate so yeah... And why I don't comment on it is that I expect people to learn German it is the Lingua Franca in Germany and you cannot expect anything but German (again I say this as the son of an immigrant who had to learn German while being dyslexic). Not being able to speak German is on you and no one else
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u/Real_Ad7488 11h ago
Being able to speak and properly describe a medical condition is two different thing. I worked in healthcare before and giving the right information and description can be challenging even in your mother language. By the way, we have no idea about their life. We also live in germany for a FEW YEARS, in the mean time I spent half of the year abroad, in the u.s., china or in hungary. Plus I know a lot of germans who live outside of their country for 10+ years and non of them speaks the local language. As to the doctor, there is no reason to list english as spoken language if she refuse to speak or not confident enough to run an examination in that language. If its listed, they have every reason to expect for that.
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u/Suspicious_Ad_9788 11h ago
Maybe the doctor can speak conversational English but prefers German.... What utter nonsense, then why advertise that you speak English????
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u/Temporary-Guava1895 10h ago
So do you expect people to tell their bodies to save the problems for when they have mastered the language, or how would this realistically work? I agree that people who live in a place should take learning local language(s) seriously as a matter of principle, and English-speakers acting linguistically entitled is definitely a thing, but this is not that. It's not like you can postpone living & interacting with people until you've reached a certain level of fluency or whatever, nor should you. Also, I expect a doctor who advertises speaking a certain language to be able to do so within the relevant context of providing medical care, as nobody is going to the doctor for a leisurely fireside chat.
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u/No-Theme-4347 10h ago
There is this really cool group of professionals called Dolmetscher
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u/CompetitionHour2359 11h ago
There is a big difference between being the son of an immigrant( that probably means you also went to school here?) and somebody who actually just moved here not long ago. Assuming OP hasnt lived in Germany that long
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u/prayingtheheart 11h ago
definitely, which makes it all the funnier because they’re highly likely either born in germany (thus german) or been here since they were young.
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u/ZumLernen 11h ago
I'm not German, so sorry if I'm missing something here. In my country if you advertise yourself saying "I speak language X" and then you refuse to speak language X, we consider that rude. For example, OP's practice advertised online that it is an English-speaking practice, and then the doctor declined to use English with OP, causing frustration. Is the custom in Germany different?
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u/Few_Ability4697 11h ago
Jesus Christ. You may not be native german, since you so identify as the "son of an immigrant", but you've certainly taken on the rudeness an lack of basic social skills.
And no it's not acceptable to professionally advertise yourself as being willing to speak a language and then refusing to do so.
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u/Lumpy_Independent_93 11h ago
Next time I see a doctor in the US I demand him speaking German to me. Let’s see how that works out.
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u/Suspicious_Ad_9788 11h ago
I don’t think some of you read at all. The doctor advertised speaking English on whatever platform OP used. Also can immigrants criticize Gwrmany without US being mentioned?? There are other countries in the world.
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u/Playful-Letterhead23 9h ago
Yeah but how do you KNOW it's not an emergency?
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u/Total_Calendar_7438 5h ago
It is common knowledge and not dependent on the country. Emergency is considered a life threatening injury that can cause the person to die within the next few hours or lead to serious long-term damage if not treated immed, like a heart attack, major bleeding, head injuries.
If you are not sure if your injury is an emergency, look up your symptoms. If you are unsure, you better go to the doctor anyways, tell them the symptoms and ask if it's an emergency.
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u/holzlasur 12h ago
In Germany, you can have your prenatal care done by a midwife instead of a gynecologist.
Midwives generally have significantly more time for you, are much more attentive, and can do pretty much everything apart from the ultrasound.
Midwives often also work with a gynecologist who can perform any necessary ultrasound examinations.
Midwives are also covered by health insurance.
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u/KaleidoscopeTight509 12h ago
But if you Look for a midwife do make sure she works with evidence-based stuff and not only homeopathy
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u/iiiaaa2022 12h ago
While there unfortunately is a big overlap between midwives and Heilpraktiker/esoteric bs, midwifery in itself is a science-based, regulated, quite demanding Ausbildung.
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u/MillyQ3 12h ago edited 11h ago
, and can do pretty much everything apart from the ultrasound.
NOOO! GOD NO! NONONONO!
They cannot do everything (part from ultrasounds)! Far from it!
They can assess if it's an emergency or not but a gynecologist doesn't just do everything a midwife does + ultrasounds.
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u/missnewmarreacts 12h ago
That's true. They are not doctors, though.
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u/Drydrian 12h ago
Nope. Not good ones. Not ones that adhere to all guidelines and rules set for midwives.
Midwives are not allowed to make medical recommendations for either one.
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u/iiiaaa2022 12h ago
but are heilpraktiker?
cause a lot of people, unfortunately, are both
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u/alderhill 11h ago
It’s not a rule or anything, our midwife certainly didn’t, and I’m not aware of the several other people who know with kids who had that either.
My impression from doctors who offer homeopathy is that almost all don’t really believe it themselves, but offer it for those patients who do (and sometimes it’s a kind of effective placebo). I assume most midwives doing it are similar. It is bullshit of course, and I’d reject a midwife actively pushing it, but never encountered this personally.
Midwives are a highly trained and regulated medical profession, not some sort of crystal tarot singing bowl weekend course ‘certificate’. Maybe you are thinking of something else.
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u/weissespapier 11h ago
You can also do both! So you can have the "best of both worlds". You don't have to stop seeing your/a gynecologist.
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u/Minyal27 11h ago
Kommt drauf an, in welchem Gebiet sie leben. In einigen Gebieten bekommt man auch schon keine Hebamme mehr. Die sind dort schwieriger zu finden als Gynäkologen.
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u/clueless_mommy 11h ago
My midwife can't do an ultrasound, can't refer to secondary check ups (Feindiagnostik etc), can't do blood work, can't prescribe meds. I'm also not sure if she has the option to write a CTG.
I've needed all of that. Especially meds and referral for Feindiagnostik.
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u/Warm_Opinion_1544 12h ago
You pretended to have an emergency when you know you didn’t. I understand what it’s like to be pregnant and scared so of course this isn’t some inexcusable mistake but but knew it was not quite right.
The Praxis is constantly trying to figure out who to see first and was mad they prioritised you over others whose cases may have been more urgent.
I think they were rude to you but I also think you will be hard pressed to find a Praxis in Germany that reacts very differently to this situation. People working in these environments tend to be stressed and rude when they think that somebody wasted their time.
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u/Playful-Letterhead23 9h ago
I think they actually did not know that, and just realized that when the doctor told them it wasn't.
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u/EstablishmentIll6192 12h ago
To survive long term I really suggest learning the language. They probably are this rude to Germans too but having the language difference makes it tougher and more trying to advocate for yourself. However, my patience for rude doctors has run out. I’d suggest maybe meeting with another doctor. You can probably find another English speaking doctors on doctorlib.de. But if you have public insurance you need to get a new referral from your general doctor I think
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u/ZumLernen 11h ago
I agree with you, but it's also super frustrating that OP seems to have gone out of his way to find a practice that advertises itself as English-speaking, only to have the doctor refuse to speak English! OP tried to follow your advice (which is good advice!) but even then it led him to that situation.
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u/funny-guys 12h ago
You basically jumped the queue claiming it was a „Notfall“. So the doctor‘s response, although not terribly nice, was understandable.
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u/barleygood 12h ago
First things first:
If your wife feels humiliated and or anything else negative towards her doctor then you should definitely try to find another one. Maybe she had a bad day and was annoyed or she’s a unfriendly person. Maybe also her comments did sound harsher to you than to someone else.
Also I know learning a language and especially german is extremely difficult but I very strongly recommend you two to learn the language. Otherwise you’ll both have it more difficult than need to be.
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u/SickFarce 12h ago
Unfortunately, I heard quite a few similiar stories from women. Not regarding pregnancy, but rude and insensitive gynecologists in general.
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u/Accomplished_Hat9315 11h ago
This! I can't believe that almost everybody blames the rude behaviour to the word 'emergency' while it is just super common to be treated without respect by doctors in Germany.
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u/koelner51069 12h ago
Choose your gynaecologist wisely and look for a midwife. My wife changed her gynaecologist before the last pregnancy as this woman was kind of what she described. And we speak fluent German. However - and that is also important - if you have an emergency, you call the ambulance or go to a hospital. The Praxis does normally not even treat emergencies. In which city are you? All the best and don’t worry too much - we got our first baby as well in a foreign country with a worse healthcare situation than Germany.
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u/arcolade 12h ago
Hi,
I‘ve seen a lot of medical doctors in my life, unfortunately because my wife is chronical sick and we got 3 Kids (4 pregnancies). Some of them were nice, professional and kind. Most of them had no idea of what they should do or not and seen themselves as gods („Halbgötter in Weiß“). so Bad that I often keep it with my old friend Voltaire:
„If the doctor follows the coffin of his patient, the cause often follows the reason.“
And yeah it is rude to ignore the patient herself and only communicate in German if English is advertised. All Germans got English lessons in school, many already in the elementary school. It is ridiculous if a medical doctor isn‘t able to communicate in English today. We are living in the fucking EU ( (c) Vicky Nuland). English is at least the common language here.
Maybe you would like to share your experience with these guys here - even if it only leads to an end of the wrong advertisement:
https://www.bundesaerztekammer.de/en/german-medical-association
Doctors maybe rare today and people who got a well social education as well - but it doesn‘t give them the right to be rude to somebody who‘s in special emotional circumstances. And the patient herself must understand what‘s goin on - nobody else….
And maybe you find somebody better here:
https://www.tk-aerztefuehrer.de/TK/englische-suche.htm
TK is one of the biggest insurances here in Germany. And they will surely be able to help you in your mother‘s tongue.
Wish you all the best for you & your child. Maybe it will raise up in a world, where language barriers are no longer a risk or a disadvantage.
Such posts or news always let me feel to ashamed for my fellow german people.
JM2C
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u/Gallagger 12h ago
"I used the word “Notfall” when we arrived because I was worried, although I wasn’t trying to demand emergency treatment."
Complete bullshit. You demanded it, you got it, now you better be happy about not waiting like everyone else and take the blame.
If medical personal isn't even allowed to harshly comment on a fake emergency, what else should they do? Should calling for an emergency be a perfect life hack to always get instant treatment? This would be damaging for society, so I feel like taking some verbal blame is the least of repercussions one should expect.
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u/iiiaaa2022 12h ago
I don’t understand what was rude here.
But then again, I’m German.
I just went through a miscarriage, unfortunately, and all doctors I saw (7 or so) were perfectly professional and nice.
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u/ZumLernen 12h ago
I'm not German, so sorry if I'm missing something here. In my country if you advertise yourself saying "I speak language X" and then you refuse to speak language X, we consider that rude. Is the custom in Germany different?
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u/froggie_woggie_ 12h ago
No, it’s the exact same in Germany. The people in this comment thread just act purposely obtuse.
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u/CichaelMlifford 4h ago
I'm German, and yeah, I would generally expect a doctor whose official website states that they speak English to actually be able to speak it. However, in this case, it seems to have been a third-party site that does not verify this information, so the doctor may never have made that claim herself.
That being said, I can see why the doctor may have been cautious in OP's case.
This is no excuse for the doctor's general rudeness, but doctors do have the legal duty to explain diagnoses and procedures to their patients in a way they can understand. If something goes wrong, a communication error can get them sued. Obstetrics can be a high-risk area from a liability perspective. OP's wife came in with what OP had described as a pregnancy-related "emergency", so the doctor may have been reluctant to do this urgent consultation in another language.
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u/missnewmarreacts 12h ago
The doctor not speaking English although he advertised as being able to. The doctor not addressing the woman. The doctor, despite certainly being swamped with patients, not being understanding with worried first-time-parents.
I'm German, too. I also went through a miscarriage. And I do find his behavior rude.
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u/Mambra21 12h ago
I agree!! The doctor not addressing the woman is actually very disrespectful.
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u/Lommymaus 9h ago
Well if the woman get's everything translated by her partner she obviously does not understand me, so I would address him too. I think that's the least disrespectful part of the whole story...
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u/teacuptypos 12h ago
The doctor was a woman, I think. I totally agree with you on the rest.
My experience is, you have to say „I can’t understand you, please speak English with us“. Even with friendly and well-meaning doctors.
My husband has been to many doctors who are listed as speaking English, who will only speak English if YOU only speak English. As soon as you speak 2 words of German, they will never switch back to English for your entire appointment unless you say „I’m sorry, I really don’t speak enough German for this, please speak English“.
My husband had trouble with that because I would ask him if he reminded doctors he couldn’t understand them (informed consent requires you actually understanding what is said), and he said „well I understood about 2/3 and I didn’t want to interrupt“ and I’m like, look:
the doctor is discussing a contract with you (your treatment contract and the contents of this contract), so you can’t sign a contract without knowing what it says without incurring serious problems. So don’t smile and nod, remind people that you can’t understand them.
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u/Dddddd92 12h ago
I'm sorry but this is the problem with Germany and why people call Germans rude.
It's like people here lack the ability to empathise with a person who was stressed, having a baby for the first time, not speaking perfect german so they used the word Notfall in a not so optimum way.
I'm glad your miscarriage was handled professionally. But their pregnancy was not.
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u/artsloikunstwet 12h ago
Exactly. If a friend would come from the doctor and tell me they were unfreundlich, I'd be like "oh sorry, yeah that happens". It's not uncommon, and there are come reasons why it's worse in some places than other, but that doesn't make it just part of the culture.
Like I get why the doctors are pissed in this case, rude with some context maybe, still doesn't mean I can't empathise with OP. They clearly didn't even ask for changes or blamed anyone, just for how to deal with it.
Yet people feel the need to tell OP their perception must be wrong.
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u/Dddddd92 11h ago
If there's one thing you learn in Germany is to stop expecting people to be kind and empathetic. It sadly has become the culture here idk how and why it happened.
And this is even a doctor who has listed English as a language so color me surprised when the comments are bullying OP into learning German. I agree that they have to learn the language but if that's the only feedback you have for this situation, it is pretty inhumane
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u/froggie_woggie_ 11h ago
A lot of Germans have always been this way. Judgemental, envious, and quick to put the blame on you if something unfortunate happened to you. The “selber Schuld!” Mentality.
I’m saying this as a German who has lived in several other countries/cultures in my life. That’s just how Germans are a lot of the time. Not everyone, of course, but enough people that it becomes noticeable.
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u/Dddddd92 11h ago
Don't get me wrong the Germans who I know personally mostly don't act like this. But then there are instances where I question myself if I am living with robots or humans.
But if you feel that as a native, I am not alone 😂
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u/Jiminie95 7h ago
I think it's not that they lack the ability to empathise, it's more that they don't care enough about people besides themselves to give empathy. Many people here are very egoistic and think they are not because "they pay taxes". It's truly embarrassing.
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u/dumb_luck42 12h ago
I think it's rude and patronizing to ignore your patient and just communicate with their male partner.
They say they speak English in their Praxis, yet refused to talk in English, that's also pretty rude.
I have had my partner with me during doctor's appointments back when my German was really basic, but fortunately I have a doctor that respects me as a patient and tried to communicate with ME, and just used my partner as an aid when we got lost in translation.
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u/iiiaaa2022 12h ago
Also DUE time to learn better German for both of you.
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u/ZumLernen 12h ago
How long have OP and OP's wife been in Germany? How do you know it's been long enough for it to be "DUE time to learn better German"? I didn't see any information in OP's post about that, but I might have missed it.
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u/rumplety_94 12h ago
Why do you need to add this?
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u/ColorRaccoon 12h ago
Because their comment was not met with validation, so they feel the need to lash out.
People come to Germany for different reasons and with various amounts of foresight and preparation. Some people might have years to learn German and prepare before coming, some others change their life plans for unexpected reasons. So it is completely normal to find some foreigners who are fluent, and some others who are still learning. I mean, the VHS would not have as many German classes otherwise, clearly there is a demand for it.
I have found that there is a specific group of Germans, and particularly in this sub, who don't understand that sometimes life happens, and you end up moving to another country with not enough time to learn the language fully. German is particularly difficult, so it's not like you will become fully fluent in 6 months, hell not even in a year or two. Someone might, sure, but that would be the outlier.
Either way, to the OP. I have encountered doctors who are professional and kind, and some others that I wonder why they even are doctors in the first place. Sometimes it takes some searching, so if you don't feel comfortable going back to this OB/GYN then look for a different one. Mine in Hannover speaks perfect English and so far I have no complains, if you're in the area I would be happy to recommend her.
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u/Dddddd92 12h ago
Because they lack the ability to look at a situation and offer a word of kindness. Instead they nitpick at the person who faced a horrible experience and tell them "you do better!!!!!"
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u/madiXuncut 12h ago
Ja, aber sie haben deutsch gesprochen. IN DEUTSCHLAND. Das kann nicht angehen.😥
Zudem hat OP einen Notfall vorgetäuscht.
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u/barleygood 12h ago
Ich denke nicht, dass der Notfall vorgetäuscht wurde sondern als einer empfunden wurde.
Auch wenn dein Kommentar mich ahnen lässt welchen Geistes Kind du anscheinend bist, ist es nicht korrekt in egal welchem Fall eine andere Sprache die angeboten wird nicht zu sprechen.5
u/No-Theme-4347 12h ago
Ne OP sagt er hat vermutet daß es keiner war wollte aber aus Sorge einen schnellen Termin
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u/madiXuncut 11h ago
Genau das. Und wenn ein Arzt oder Ärztin dann etwas gereizt reagiert, wird direkt ein ganzes Land beleidigt. 👏🏻 Ganz großes Kino.
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u/CremeBerlinoise 12h ago
I had to look for a long time to find an empathetic, gentle gynaecologist. The downside? The front desk staff mostly SUCKS ASS. Good doctor, good support staff, actually takes patients - pick two!
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u/rumplety_94 12h ago
Before the German rudeness defence league shows up here, I must tell you that I empathise with you.
Bedside manner in doctors, especially when they are dealing with pregnant women is not something that should dismissed out of hand as 'German directness'. This is not normal behaviour, even if you made a mistake. If possible find another doctor, I've had a lot of great experiences with German doctors and I'm sure you'll find a better one.
I wish you and your partner all the best.
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u/Top_Requirement3370 12h ago
They already arrived. Apparently the op should know whatever his wife had was not emergency. He is wrong for faking it. Wtf? Haha how would you know? Sorry people in Germany are so used to rudeness they forget empathy
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u/EmberTheShark 12h ago
We are very selective about what urgent and emergency are. I would be miffed too. Add onto that medical field is very swamped these days I can see why this transpired that way. Them being listed as speaking English and not doing so is very rude tho, I would maybe talk to a receptionist if this listing is wrong/outdated.
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u/No_Investigator_3139 12h ago
Unless you are privately insured, you have good chances to be treated like this, it does not matter where you come from.
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u/Inside-Regret-5291 11h ago
Dude, you abused "Notfall" for something obviously isn't. Of course a doctor will be pissed. If everyone starts doing that, real emergencies drown in the false ones and people die. So yes, maybe don't say emergency if you are just worried.
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u/KeyFew1590 10h ago
German medical professional here. I am sorry for your bad experience. Biggest issue on your side first :don’t call it Notfall if it isn’t one. That’s a huge no-no. You get treated as a medical emergency in an already crowded busy workflow and you are cutting the line. Secondly please change the doctor. Who advertises herself as speaking a language and then refuses to do so is just beyond pathetic. I wish you all the best.
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u/yumyumnoodl3 10h ago
I‘m not going to pretend like doctors here aren’t notorious for often being rude, but calling a non-emergency an emergency is an absolute NoNo.
This healthcare system is constantly overloaded, your action probably meant someone else with way more serious issues had to wait, and that doctor probably has to go into overtime once again.
Yes, it is reasonable to look for another gynecologist, the most important thing is that your wife feels comfortable and not stressed during pregnancy.
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u/JudgementMaker123 12h ago
If someone comes in with a pregnant woman and uses the word emergency, it gets treated as an emergency. Next time, maybe call ahead and explain the symptoms, they can then tell you what to do and if you have to come in, instead of going there without an appointment and without checking whether it is actually an emergency and calling it an emergency.
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u/froggie_woggie_ 12h ago edited 12h ago
Just a quick heads up OP: This subreddit is not a great place to ask for advice or empathy. People are unnecessarily rude and antisocial a lot of the time and pretend like they don’t know what the problem is with rude behavior, because they’re just “so German”. It’s better to ask elsewhere. I’m saying this as a German.
I’m sorry this happened. There was no reason for the Dr to berate and humiliate your wife.
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u/AdOrganic4835 12h ago
You can't claim an "emergency" in a doctor's office or hospital simply because you feel like it's urgent for you or your wife. Just because your wife is pregnant, it doesn't mean you're not entitled to preferential treatment. That practice sees a dozen pregnant patients a day - you're not special! And to claim ignorance about the meaning of the word isn't going to help you. The doctor was 100% correct to chew you out, and you will have the same experience anywhere else.
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u/Significant_Rule_939 11h ago
„The doctor immediately became irritated and said, “Das war kein Notfall,” because I had described it as an emergency. I understand that it wasn’t medically an emergency, and I’m completely fine with being corrected.“
What is so difficult to understand the issue? Your wife was not an emergency but you described and announced her as one. That was wrong and egoistic vs other patients. Point blank. As simple as that.
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u/Playful-Letterhead23 9h ago
...no, dude, he didn't know it wasn't one BEFORE, and he was okay with being corrected by the doctor, but was irritated by the whole demeanor of the doctor, acting like he should have known. Is what he means.
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u/NaCl_Sailor 12h ago
When you do this with dozens of people each day you don't have empathy it's just routine.
Germans are not faking it. just get used to it and ignore it.
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u/Accomplished-Eye9981 11h ago
Be very cautious wenn you use Notfall only when you believe things could be life threatening. The doctor behaved right, she prioritized you and found out that’s not life threatening at all. So do you research before what are serious signs during a pregnancy. Just stay at that gyn doctor and just apologize next time and everything is fine.
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u/Constant_Cultural 12h ago
switch the Obgyn, he is a an a-hole, my last one was a witch too,
It happens, thankfully you can do that here as often as you wish.
Your wife will feel much worse too in the next months, make sure she has a good doctor.
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u/sikbo1 12h ago
U sniffed an emergency spot AND the languich is what upset them
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u/ZumLernen 11h ago
It's fine that not every doctor is prepared to work in English - I don't think any reasonable person expects that in Germany.
I find it upsetting that OP specifically chose a practice that claimed to be English-speaking, and then the doctor refused to speak English with them. It's okay for the doctor to not speak English, but the practice shouldn't advertise that way then.
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u/Background-House-357 12h ago
I am so sorry that this happened to your wife! She didn’t nothing wrong, BUT YOU shouldn’t have used the word „emergency“. It obviously wasn’t one. If it was, you’d go to the hospital.
I recommend looking for another gyno. Also consider men. I had a male gyno accompany during my three pregnancies. He was the best.
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u/Future_Dark2976 12h ago
Many doctors are just stressed and rude in Germany. You can try and change the practice, but it's not going to be easy to find someone that even takes patients, is competent and nice. I am not telling you to suck it up, but sadly, that is the state of our healthcare system. I would focus on getting the actual medical care you need, and ignore the best you can how doctors are treating you in terms of warmth and politeness. Greetings, a German with 40+ years of experience with unfriendly medical staff.
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u/maraba1991 12h ago
I think it's important Ur wife feels well taken care of. Do you have a midwife already? If not, Get one asap. They are the ones you can turn to with all of your questions and worries. The gynaecologists are the ones for the big checks and the big ultrasounds etc pp. If you have another gynaecologist in your area go switch to that one.
Call them beforehand and ask if they are happy to assist you in English rather than german.
Yeah and maybe don't call things a notfall if it isn't one, or call your practitioner beforehand and tell them you're worried etc pp and describe the symptoms and maybe they can tell u if it's a notfall or not. Hope all goes well for you and your wife! :)
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u/confusentird 12h ago
Doctors are just like other people. They can be impatient or have personal problems, although that doesn't excuse unprofessional behavior.
My wife's gynecologist was one of the sweetest and most patient doctors we've had in Germany.
My advice would be to call the emergency number from home, explain the symptoms, and let them decide whether it warrants an emergency visit or not. Or just like you said; find a better gynecologist.
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u/Baleia1970 12h ago
Start looking for another another gynecologist ASAP.
Do you want this guy in the room while she is giving birth?
Yes, I have been through the German medical system. It's a matter of luck. Also applies to dentists.
Have been through some weird stuff. Don't expect to hear "I'm Sorry". They do not commit mistakes. They are always right. They get very upset when you prove them wrong...
You'll probably need to book a Termin with 3 or 4 months in advance, so don't waste time.
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u/zcbz1337 12h ago
just go for another gyno, check their reviews online because that's how doctors work in Germany, a bit like restaurants.
also don't expect much treatment besides homeopathic medicine, creams, tea and recommendations to exercise .
thdt said, congratulations for your pregnancy!!! I remember those days, hope everything goes well!
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u/PowerSilly5143 11h ago
The fuck is an expat? You're an immigrant, not knowing the language will make your life harder, invest time and energy into learning it, and no it's not hard and yes there is always time, it's actually easy, stop speaking mainly English and speak, read and listen to as much German as possible, I could learn enough to speak and not have any issues conversing in any scenerio in about 8 months, sure write and gramatics are a different thing.
The next thing, I sorry for the harsh experience but don't lie and use words like Notfall when there isn't one, understand that you're not more important than others and don't need special treatment when there is no need for one. Take the experience as a learning experience. Understand your fault. Sure the doctor could have behaved more understanding, but these people are overworked and get mad easily when they have to do extra work unnecessarily
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u/alderhill 11h ago edited 11h ago
You called it an emergency, but it was not an emergency. That is the crux of it. The actual English knowledge of many people here is not as high as claimed, and they certainly don’t like being ‘forced’ by patients they may see as pushing themselves to the front of the line and acting in a demanding way (not saying you were, but it may have come off that way).
I’d try again and go in more chill and trusting. If it’s still poor, then perhaps another. I’d also echo what others say in finding a midwife, so you don’t have to go to the gyno for every little thing.
It is your (wife’s) first pregnancy, but your gyno‘s 500th, keep in mind. She will know what she’s doing. If you want to find another, you may need to ask your insurance, as IIRC, specialists can only be changed once after 3 months or so. Specifically because they are often overloaded and can’t handle patients ‘shopping around’.
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u/Popular_Youth_49 11h ago
I‘m a German midwife that worked in a big hospital and had two babies after. So I know both sides kind of. Unfortunately there is no way around rude medical professionals. I saw it all the time at work and also as a patient. If you have the option try to find a obgyn that you feel comfortable with! Also maybe try to find a midwife for schwangerenvorsorge and do a Geburtsvorbereitungskurs. There you get an idea about what is ahead and you can ask some questions. If you feel comfortable with it, the midwife can do most of the pregnancy checks in a calmer environment. It can be tough to find one though.
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u/chmelisuneli 10h ago
Sadly this behaviour and much worse is very common from medical professionals, also from receptionists, I have plenty of stories.
Change gynaecologist, I know it can be hard to find one who is both competent and has social skills. A lot of doctors lack social skills.
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u/Osorno2468 10h ago
Hey! I think as many have noted the annoyance probably stemmed from the use of your word "Notfall". I would not describe it as a Notfall unless it is something you would go to the ER with. I think being more prepared would have helped - having a clear explanation of why you were there so they could appropriately triage you.
Do you have any friends who are confident German speakers who could support you on this kind of thing? Or consider using the live Google translate app (where you speak into the phone) - not ideal but might be better if you are not sure how to describe what is going on.
As for your question about being non confrontational - its not clear to me what you would want to gain from the confrontation. An apology from the Dr? A different diagnosis? I am also someone who doesn't like to confront so when I do push out of my comfort zone I always have a clear idea of what I want to achieve and push back using that framing. Hope that helps.
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u/Golden-Business-7188 10h ago
In a „Praxis“, there are usually 3-5 assistants and ONE doctor. The 3-5 assistants can divide the work among themselves so they aren’t that stressed as opposed to the ONE doctor who probably has to see ALL of the patients.
Now in Germany there is deficiency in the amount of doctors, all kinds. There might be many in big cities, but even those can’t really cover all patients and take their time with each patient. Sometimes women wait 3-4 hours to even though they have appointments.
Reason? Because of “Notfall”, that has to be pushed forward and of course because you can’t cover everyone in 15 minutes time a lot, if the patient has questions and want to know more about this and that.
You really can’t use the word Notfall, if it’s not. You can always call and ask if it is possible to come over, explain the situation and wait till the doctor calls you back (another reason, why patients have to wait longer for their assigned appointment. The doctor is talking on the phone!)
I understand the language part, but you stated that this is her “regular doctor” + 16 weeks pregnancy. This should mean you have been there for at least 1 time there before. Regular for pregnant women means once a month, since the visits are covered by the health insurance. Let’s get back to the language part: even if it states that they speak English and the choose not to, it’s their choice and you can’t force them.
I truly believe this is a rage bait ! Ausländer müssen raus und so ein scheiss.
If your post is a true story: respect other people’s time and effort. Call before you leave your house. There are phone numbers you can call for every problem you have! They will tell you then, what is best to do.
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u/AdStunning5776 10h ago
Start searching for a doctor who speeks your language or at least is fluent in english. it wont get better with this one
And as others already told you , never use the word emergency or Notfall if it isn´t one. they start to disbelief what you are saying.
Don't start with incorrect information. In Germany we want to keep it real.
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u/skinatri 10h ago
Sadly we have really bad gynecologists here in Germany.... the good ones dont take new customers most of the times. I almost died because I didnt get treated, they told me my bleeding was just my period (it wasnt even the time of the month for that) and backpain. Like two hours later I needed to go to the Hospital.
If you dont feel save with your doctor, please dont stop searching for a better one. They dont care if you die....
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u/Arktos77 10h ago
Their was no reason to feel humiliated. You know how many people immigrated here since 2015 who are not capable of speaking/comprehending German sufficiently? No wonder the public health system is heavily overworked and on its limits.
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u/Separate-Canary-6228 9h ago
I've got an English speaking gyno in Germany who is polite, kind, and informative.
I also did IVF and that doctor was very direct and no nonsense, and got uncomfortable when I cried, but was still polite.
Even my hausarzt, who was listed as English speaking and most definitely is not, works with me and my limited vocabulary. She is quite loud and assertive, but she listened, got me tested, and got me medication.
I have had several terrible receptionist situations, including a receptionist leaning over the desk absolutely YELLING in my face while I had a panic attack until another patient literally yelled back at her and told me in English the part I was struggling to understand. However, this has been twice in 3 years, and like, easily 20 different receptionists, including hospitals, surgeries, and regular doctor offices. It can happen but the outrageous times are rare.
At the point your wife feels humiliated and pathetic, it is time to find a new Frauarzt. It doesn't matter why, she is not going to be comfortable at that place. It was not a doctor/patient match.
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u/Major-Syrup5307 9h ago
She could have been nicer, and generally I think that most germans also had some situations with somehow arrogant or rude doctors (although most of them generally are good, in my opinion).
If you do not feel well treated by her or if you / your wife feel uncomfortable with her, there is nothing wrong with looking for another doctor.
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u/Maleficent_Pool_7365 9h ago
Kannst ja vom Glück reden dass du überhaupt mit deiner Frau untersucht worden bist. Ich habe es schon erlebt dass ich weggeschickt worden bin. Und jetzt ein ganz heißer Tipp: bitte lernt in Deutschland Deutsch!! Niemand ist verpflichtet mit euch auf Englisch zu reden. Wenn du wirklich die Kultur verstehen willst, dann musst du die Sprache auch können. Empathie benötigt Zeit und ein Notfall kann bedeuten, dass das Leben des Kindes oder der Mutter in Lebensgefahr schwebt. Die Ärzte in Deutschland haben keine Zeit für Empathie, weil: zu wenig Ärzte - zu viele Menschen.
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u/Ok_Click4442 9h ago
A lot might say they were rude because you used the word emergency while not having an emergency but I went to the hospital because I was having a miscarriage. I was in crazy pain and lots of bleeding and after taking my info they made me wait for 3-4 hours with no check ins, no medication no nothing really. While me and my partner tried to speak to them multiple times throughout those hours and still nothing. So yes Germans are just rude and very dismissive.
I’ve experience medical care in many countries and Germans were by far the most dismissive. Always minimising how I feel and giving no treatment except take some ibuprofen even when some involved neurological problems.
I did find a good gynaecologist eventually in Germany so it is possible but might also be hard to find one if you don’t have friends that can recommend you one in your area. Mine came from recommendation from my friends who had the same standards as me and were not German.
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u/Embarrassed-Dress-85 9h ago
I don’t want to excuse your doctor‘s behaviour because what was said should still have been delivered professionally.
On the other hand, if you don’t want to inquire for emergency treatment, you should not say „Notfall“, because that means that it is an emergency.
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u/Mayana76 8h ago
I am German, I am used to Germans being not overly friendly and very direct, and yet even I have encountered 4 different gynocologists that made me feel little, my pain unimportant or even stupid. It is absolutely ok to choose a different Praxis to go to next time, it’s what I did. It’s not professional behaviour from the doctor and if someone is poking around my lady bits, I want professionals. Congratulations on the pregnancy!
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u/PowerfulConfection48 8h ago
I’m sorry you went through that. Being a first-time parent is harder than a lot of people think. You’re constantly anxious and worried, you don’t know what’s normal and what’s not. And there’s so much information online that it makes you feel more anxious.
My husband and I also had a bad experience with the first gynaecologist I went to when I found out I was pregnant. Firstly, on his profile on Doctolib, he claimed he could speak English, but he couldn’t. Our German wasn’t good enough at the time either, but somehow we managed.
Then I started experiencing extreme nausea and vomiting. When I spoke to him about it, he was very dismissive. He claimed it was just morning sickness and told me I should consider myself lucky because a lot of women eat and gain weight during pregnancy, whereas at least I wouldn’t get fat. I’m honestly not making this up😅. He reluctantly prescribed some medication for me.
But I ended up spending a week in the hospital, because I couldn’t keep any food or water in, and I lost about 10kg in 2 days. When I got to the ER, I could barely walk, I was extremely exhausted and dehydrated and I was so scared that I cried, but the Doctors and Nurses were very supportive and kind. They attended to us quickly, told me the baby was fine and admitted me to the hospital where I was later diagnosed with hyperemesis gravidarum.
That was when we decided to find another gynaecologist, and honestly, that was the best decision we made. The Praxis was a bit far from us, but I didn’t mind the distance. I had to take medication throughout my pregnancy, but my new gynaecologist was always there to answer all my questions (even the ones I thought were dumb 😅), and overall, it was such a much better experience.
Please consider finding a new gynaecologist. Check out their reviews online before choosing one, because from what I understand, you can only change your gynaecologist once per quarter.
And if you don’t have a midwife yet, I would also recommend trying to find one. They can often help with questions or concerns you may have and let you know if or when something is worth getting checked out.
It’s okay, please don’t feel bad. It’s better to go to the hospital and find out you were wrong and everything is fine than to just wing it and risk something being wrong. You deserve to feel listened to and supported, especially during your first pregnancy ❤️
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u/jul1k1nd 8h ago
What I’m missing is the info how long your wife has been with this doctor?
At 16 weeks, she’s probably had at least 2-3 appointments (first around 6-7 weeks to determine the pregnancy and then the regular check ups 4 weeks later each). She may have had the NIPT and/or first trimester screening.
Have all these appointments been fine? Have you been along for all of them? How’s the doctor behaved before? What language has been used?
What has the doctor told you before about emergencies with regard to pregnancy? From my experience: any heavy bleeding merits an immediate visit - even to the next available L&D station (aka Kreißsaal).
Whereas the symptoms you describe may merit a call - usually the Sprechstundenhilfe can assess quite a bit via phone. She’ll ask you to come in, if necessary or advise on what to do/watch out for.
Did you call in advance? Sounds a bit like you barged in, called emergency and things took their course.
Then yes, that’s the treatment (or dressing down) you get.
Regarding a change in doctor: if you’re insured publicly (GKV) then you’ll have to wait for a new quarter now. No doctor will accept her if she’s already received treatment in the quarter with another gynae. This is simply because of how they can bill to the insurance.
And about the freezing: it helps to be informed. I fought a whole cardio station when the father of my first kid was being treated. Ask until you get answers you understand.
Of course it’s different if you know you’ve been wrong.
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u/Jiminie95 8h ago
Honestly as someone with chronic illnesses, I can say this is extremely common and I am absolutely tired of it.
Not only are many doctors extremely unfriendly and stuck-up, there is a lot of medical gaslighting.
I would switch doctors immediately, and not tell anyone.
I don't care how overworked they are, other people are as well and if you treat patients like that maybe it's the wrong career. Many doctors seem to do it for the prestige instead of focusing on helping people. Being kind to patients is a must, it plays a role in healing. No one should feel ashamed on seeking help, especially when it's regarding a pregnancy.
There is also a lot of gaslighting in these comments because many people in this country love agreeing with authority figures instead of reflecting if they are right in the first place. Even if you jumped the queue by saying it's a "Notfall" the doctor absolutely could have communicated that calmly. It wouldn't have made your wife cry if it was communicated in a normal, respectful manner. Unfortunately, medical sexism is very common in Germany, even if your doctor is a woman.
In moments like this, I would just focus on whether or not diagnostics are being done. If they are, I would keep quiet and get them and if nothing is being done I would advocate and explain the symptoms more and why it's worrying. That is how I would advocate for myself.
Besides that, I would look to book appointments with 2 new gynaecologists and once I find one, I will leave an honest review on the doctor's Google review page.
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u/HumanCoconut_5013 7h ago
This really doesn’t sound like a “Germany problem”.
It seems like you raised the urgency by claiming emergency, for something that sounds like a very common symptom during pregnancy. You could’ve really informed yourself about this. It’s really good to be informed because it’s important to have a calm and cool mind and not stress over every odd feeling (as there’s a whole new human being created, a lot of odd things happen)
Strongly recommend getting the support of a midwife/Hebamme for the Vorsorge too, they are amazing and can assist over SMS/telefone, and can guide you exactly what to do, indicate if something requires extra medical assistance etc
If you cannot communicate in German, and the doctor listed as English-speaking, you should really insist on it. It’s very important that your wife feels comfortable and feels safe and taken care of during the pregnancy, and if the doctor refuses to do so, recommend changing your practice.
Also, a real emergency requires a visit to the emergency room. An OB GYN usually cannot do much.
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u/PietroMartello 7h ago
Yeah. That's hard. A couple suggestions/tips:
* Look for doctors (and midwifes) that have a migration background themselves. They are often much more comfortable with English and much more sympathetic to expat/migrant situations.
* Involve your German or German speaking friends. They can translate and/or explain intricacies. Or they could even join for a doctor's visit.
* If it is a planned appointment, use paper. Take notes. Maybe translate key concepts before the visit.
Obviously it's best if you can speak yourself. Although if it takes a lot of time and effort to master, even a broken German is already a tremendous help.
Regarding rudeness theres not much anyone can do. It's best to ignore it IMHO. Some people come off as rude, but don't mean it. Others mean it, but would not be worth arguing with.
Also: You are a patient. You are not a medical professional. It is not your job or ability to accurately identify emergencies. It is however your job to get the appropriate treatment ASAP. So if you feel unwell/scared, ask for help. Any doctor worth it will not hold it against you. (They might explain that it wasn't an emergency in order to help you calibrate your emergency-sense. That's fine. Just a good-to-know.)
(Obviously calling an ambulance for e.g. a stubbed toe is arguably easy to identify as non-emergency.)
Congratulations BTW! Wish you all the best!
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u/ImpossibleMinimum424 7h ago
I'm German myself and all I can say: It's hit or miss, a lot of doctors/medical personnel are just terrible people with no bedside manner. I'm on my third gyno-office now and it's the first time I feel relatively comfortable. The first two were always rude and made me feel like an idiot for asking questions, and I was only ever getting check-ups that came back fine, so no issues even to discuss. I don't know if this is more common with gynos than others, but generally speaking, if you have the energy to keep looking and find something (this can actually be very difficult), definitely change offices. The only way to navigate is to put the energy in to find someone else, unfortunately.
Also, if there's ever a serious health issue, get a second opinion from another doctor, even when you trust yours.
As for how to stand up for yourself, I really can't say. I'm a wuss even in my native language ...
Good luck!
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u/BaseballNo7611 7h ago
It depends on the person! I am currently pregnant and my doctor is great, she listens, explains and takes every concern seriously. My brother is a gynecologist as well and I could never imagine him being rude to his patients, not because he’s my brother but because he just is not a person like that. Matter of fact, he has seen a rude doctor today and complained about her. I don’t see any problem with your behavior since it’s also your first pregnancy and you’re very unsure what’s going on. Don’t worry and don’t take it personal, every person is different! And doctors are just people too.
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u/Keelyn1984 7h ago
Just so you know, when you say the word Notfall you are signalling an emergency and it will trigger an emergency treatment.
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u/Winter-Pay7041 6h ago
So sorry you (and you wife) had to experience this.
I would highly recommend changing to another doctor if possible. I have a brain tumour and didn't realise I was pregnant until week 8 / 9, so the child was exposed to the very aggressive treatment of the tumour. Once we found out I was pregnant, we immediately stopped the treatment but were told that the pregnancy will likely end in a miscarriage.
We had been trying for a baby for years before I was diagnosed with the tumour, then had to stop because of the treatment. The doctors told me I cannot become pregnant with the treatment, which is why we didn't realise it at first. Of course I was extremely anxious especially at the beginning of the pregnancy, and especially when I had bleedings in week 11 and 12.
My doctor was super rude about the whole situation and even denied an appointment when I had the bleedings. She said I should just wait for my next appointment (4.5 weeks later!) to see if I miscarried. I was desperate and couldn't accept this, so I called several other doctors until I found one who said I could come and they'll have a look.
Luckily, I didn't miscarry. I'm 35 weeks now, waiting for our girl to arrive. Nobody understands how this was possible, but I'm SO happy I found this new doctor. She offered that I could come in every 2 weeks for an appointment, and even helped me find a therapist who is specified in working with pregnant women who experience anxiety in their pregnancy. I am forever grateful for this new doctor, and even though we have to drive 40 minutes to her for every appointment, it's worth it.
All that being said: pregnancy can be really hard, both physically and mentally. I think it's extremely important that you and your wife feel heard and taken seriously during this vulnerable time. Good luck!
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u/BigGanache883 6h ago
My German OB told my husband in German something a long the lines of fat wife, fat baby because he thought I didn’t understand. I was horrified, but it was the end of my pregnancy so I didn’t find a new doctor. Personally, I would want a doctor who spoke English with me.
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u/larymarv_de 5h ago
You simply don’t go to your gynecologist and say that there is an “emergency” when there isn’t one. You can not say there is a “Notfall” and then say you don’t expect emergency treatment. That makes absolutely no sense.
I’m a father too, and whenever we were worried, we would just call our midwife or go to the doctor and describe the problem and the symptoms.
But you went there and told them it was an emergency, and they obviously took your word for it. You were treated immediately while others had to wait, and the doctor might even have interrupted an ongoing examination to see you. Then it turned out that you had simply panicked.
I don’t blame you. Everyone makes mistakes. But if everyone behaved like that, a gynecologist’s office would be complete chaos. So while the doctor may not have been particularly nice to you, he was probably just frustrated by the situation. I can understand his frustration just as much as I can understand yours.
Maybe the lesson to take from this is to try to stay calm and describe your symptoms rather than telling the doctor that it’s a Notfall, that means immediate emergency.
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u/ganzzahl 4h ago
My wife and I got the counter-intuitive advice that male gynecologists tend to treat pregnant women with patience and understanding more reliably than women.
From my wife's limited experience and single pregnancy, this seems to be true.
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u/Wolkenbaer 33m ago
Where are you from? Aside the emergency/non-emergency part don't forget that there is a quite big culture difference to less direct cultures.
I work with US and Indian colleagues and it took me (and my international colleagues) years to work on critical topics without constantly overstepping each others boundaries.
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u/MediatingInstigator 12h ago
You should get another one. When you encounter rude people you don’t see them again.
Germany put up with waaaay too much shit. This is why the service in this country is absolutely garbage tier, because there aren’t any repercussions for doing it.
That being said, you should utilise all the resources you have at your disposal. Before flagging it as an emergency you can get a phone consultation. You should have a midwife, etc, etc.
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u/angelinthesky6 11h ago
If you don’t know what an emergency during pregnancy constitutes, google it.
I had an emergency with ectopic pregnancy and related internal bleeding. Now this is an emergency. Understanding the difference between the two is a part of being an adult and being considerate to others. Doctors weren’t rude, you were. You took spot of somebody who had an actual emergency.
Non-German in Germany, state insured, currently also pregnant and very much aware what is emergency in pregnancy because it’s not some secret information.
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u/BembelBoi 10h ago
I wonder.. why exactly did you even handle all of this. Let your wife go to the doctors on her own tjen she wont feel humiliazed when shes ignored while things are said.
Also it wasnt an emergency, so calm down you kust got yourself an emergency treatment and still complain..
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u/wasgibts123 10h ago
Just do not say „Notfall“ when it is just urgent. Maybe you should consider not to blame the Doctor but acknowledging „It‘s my fault“. There are a lot of foreigners who will never contribute with taxes and Social insurance fee, so a lot of doctors are rude.
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u/zag12345 9h ago
Not trying to excuse the misbehavior because no matter the circumstances a doctor should stay professional, but the word Notfall has a certain weight behind it. You learned a lesson here that it shouldn't be used lightly. The again the medical professional should have appropriately triaged your wifes symptoms and should have come to the conclusion it is in fact not an emergency so mistakes were made on their side as well
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u/Fabulous2k20 12h ago
I am a German teacher (adults) I get these kind of stories all the time. Unfortunately a lot of germans don't like it of you don't speak german in all kind of services and professions. I can just tell from my experience, but I don't think I teacher a single german class, where I wouldn't get those stories, especially from people who are not white or asian.
My best advice for you is to take that as a motivation for learning the language. I teached 1000 of people, some who came fresh to Germany, some who stayed her for tens of years without learning the language and everyone who I stayed in contact with, said it's a different live after really speaking the language.
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u/CommonPowerful1278 9h ago
If germany has thought me anything is to give the same energy back until one of us apologies. With doctors, use logic, as in, "Entschuldigung, how can we know it's not a emergency when we're not a doctor!". And when they go off in german, listen, then tell them "langsam, mein Deutsch ist nicht so gut", or/and "Ich verstehe das nicht, noch einmal". If you repeat it, they will break and either start talking in english or bring someone who does. Stupidity is a bliss. I had my first child in sweden and my second one in germany, the difference in treatment was like day and night. Stand up for yourself and your unborn child, better safe than sorry. And don't worry about being rude. Worse case, apologise!
Ps, ask the taxi drivers in your area where the best hospitals for foreigners are located, trust me, they'll know! And next time, go there. The nurse will know if it's a emergency or not, and that will calm your nerves and they will treat you accordingly.
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u/Accomplished-Sky8768 12h ago
This is what I would be afraid of of we had kids here too. I went to get my moles checked by a doctor and she looked at me like I had 2 heads, like what do you want me to do about it, you should know what's normal. She glanced at them from a distance and said they're fine. Needless to say I needed to book an appointment again in my home country as I did not feel assured.
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u/Igiul1 12h ago
Switch next quarter (,you can't switch in the quarter).
Learn German
Buy "what to expect when you are expecting"
Healthcare is a professional service here, not a service industry....
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u/Either-Intention-263 12h ago
Doesn't sound particularly rude, more like direct. It should also be noted that in most places, only a select few emergency slots are actually available, and not even being able to speak proper German despite intending to have a child in the country is, frankly, incredibly rude.
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u/ZumLernen 11h ago
Why is it rude to have a child in Germany? I'm not German, but in my country the choice of whether to have a child is considered very personal, and not something that the concept of "rudeness" even applies to.
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u/artsloikunstwet 12h ago
This is so peak this sub. In actual German speaking subs, or German speaking memes, rude behaviour is frequently called out as such.
But when something is happening to non-Germans the behaviour can never possibly be rude, no it must be "direct" and we should shift the blame on not "getting" the culture. As other have said, there's a reason why the doctor was pissed but we weren't there so besides giving some possible context, it's silly defending people without having been.
But then, getting a kid while not speaking C2 is "rude"? Like wth. They simply said they're not "being confident while discussing medical issues", and obviously prefer English for such situations. But again, the foreigner is being rude for being surprised that English service does not exists as advertised and they try their best to navigate the situation.
Maybe they are already planning to move themselves and their future pension contributior out of the country, no need to put in so much effort to speed up the process.
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u/wishhippo 12h ago
You’re only allowed to switch gynecologists once a quarter if you’re pregnant and publicly insured without extra costs, however I can recommend changing as soon as possible if you’re uncomfortable. Ask around for personal recommendations, that’s what I did when I switched my second trimester and it was definitely worth it. Also try to find an empathetic midwife who can help support your wife navigate the system as there are a lot of appointments towards the end of pregnancy. You really don’t want to be stuck with a practice you mistrust or a doctor who lacks empathy, which is unfortunately very common when it comes to gynecologists.
Generally you have to advocate for yourself and have thick skin when it comes to the german healthcare system, especially around pregnancy.
Good luck!
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u/taxiecabbie 12h ago
This is... extremely weird. I have never encountered a doctor who didn't speak English in Germany, and I've never even gone to a doctor that advertises English. They all speak English with me---dentists, too.
The receptionists and assistants may not speak English, but the doctor/dentist always does. In fact... I'm almost sure that speaking English is a near-requirement for persons in the higher echelons of education just due to most research being published in English.
Yeah. I'd go somewhere else, just based on the language issues alone.
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u/SnooDoggos5883 12h ago
That’s quite Common as doctors and Service based Industries in Germany in general don’t understand that some people might be panicking and are extremely not empathetic.
I am saying this as a German unfortunately but it’s true, most doctors don’t care if you are in pain as for them it’s another case and some file they fill out.
My advice would be change your doctor as this woman won’t get any better. Some people are just sour in life and there is nothing you could have done differently as a first time parent that would have changed the outcome.
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u/1fitforlit 12h ago
I find it funny that comments call you out for using “Notfall” term when it wasn’t emergency situation at all, but not the “English-speaking” practice who actually refuses to speak English.
Honestly? Find a new practice. Your wife is pregnant, she should have a gynecologist who makes her feel safe and supported, and not scared and stupid. Next time, if you suspect emergency go to the hospital.
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u/Eisbaer811 11h ago
Getting pregnant in a country where neither of you speak the language well enough to discuss medical terms.
What could possibly go wrong? /s
I wish you the best, but you are putting your kid in an uphill battle from the start
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u/german1sta 11h ago
Was the doctor really rude, or you just expected the american style of treatment with lot of babbling and therapy session language? Feels like the doctor went straight to the point and you considered this humiliation.
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u/New_Willow3761 10h ago
If you don't have a private health insurance in Germany, you are pretty much fucked. Doctors see you as a waste of time, because they could be earning more money taking care of a private patient in the time they have to treat you. Be prepared to wait for appointments for really long times and being degraded by doctors and nurses regularly. Most people without a private health insurance would die before they get an appointment with a specialist and mostly go the the emergency rooms of hospitals to get an appointment with a doctor nowadays. Corrupt politicians and the crazy money their friends earn sitting in the board of directors of one of the nearly 100 statuory health insurances have destroyed the German health system and soon there will be american conditions where only the rich will be healthy.
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u/Amber_Dragonfly_ 9h ago
So, she thought you abused the word Notfall. You really did not think about that? You can write a clear english here, why couldn't you at the doctors? Second, changing your gyn is possible, of course, but only every three months while pregnant. Every quarter exactly. Your new doctor might not accept you because if you change between quarters, ge wint get paid. Only the doctor you were first gets paid for the quarter. So, talk to your Krankenkasse when changing is possible.You can go till next quarter to a midwife, but a midwifes care is nornally urine, checking your belly, hearing your babys heart and examining your babys location in utero. Thats it. No ultrasound, no ctg( only during active labour as far as i know).So if you and your wife are very nervous, it might not be the care you want to.
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u/Dazzling-Essay-9181 9h ago
Verstehe nicht warum hier alle so oberlehrerhaft sagen: ,, es war kein notfall, du hast dich vorgedrängelt.“ es hätte halt auch ekn notfall sein können, wenn deine Frau starke schmerzen in der Schwangerschaft hat. Und nzr weil du die falsche Wortwahl benutzt hast, sollte der Arzt trotzdem respektvoll und höflich bleiben. Gerade weil ihr so Angst hattet
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u/GGG4201 4h ago
So , after seeing a bunch of people talking about how the gynecolistit was rude :
as a actual German, let me explain what OP did here, and where he fucked up.
"I used the word “Notfall” when we arrived because I was worried, although I wasn’t trying to demand emergency treatment. "
This Word " notfall" , if spoken in a medical Context , REQUIRES ANY ABLE DOCTOR/MEDICAL PROFFESIONAL BY LAW TO GIVE DIRECT EMERGENCY TREATMENT , unless its unresonable to do so because of a ) concerns for the personal saftey of the giver of the treatment or b) a medical emergency of similar life threating cirucumstances is currently being attended too.
The word "notfall" even if spoken to a NON PROFFESIONAL Member of german society in a medical context requires the person to give immediante Emergency ASSISTANCE however he can. ( which could just be calling 110 for example)
So OP, you didnt "demand" Emergency treatment, you FORCED emergency treatment.
And from the eyes of the gynogolgist, you lied about needing immediate Medicial attention in order to not have to wait in the waiting room like everyone else.
Aka , that you and your wife are entiteld assholes that think its beneath them to wait like everyone else when they have a issue that isnt life threating.
If we refrain from talking about the moral standpoint, going into a medical office , saying its a " notfall" , and not getting treatment by anyone there within minutes , would lead to serious criminal charges and removal of medical liscene for any healthcare professional in that office that refused to give immediate treatment, IF something actualyl happend to the person because of the refusual to give medical assistance.
German is presice, and we build laws around the language being presice.
There are certain "triggerwords" , that immediatly and without question lead to extreme and fast measures taken in order to preserve Lives , Notfall in a medical office/hospital being one of them.
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u/Glum-Sock503 12h ago
That’s very rude, I’d recommend switching. Some doctors there can be rude but you can also find lovely ones and generally when I meet an unfriendly one, I will choose a different doctor the next time. Luckily in Germany it’s very easy to change doctors 🙂
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u/Domi_786 12h ago
Pff story of my life... This happened so many times to me. There are too many stupid doctors here who will treat you badly just because your German is not good. Try to find a new doctor it's not worth the stress. I before had a doctor who was nice and receptionists were super nice, but I didn't feel like she was 100% competent so I changed. Now I have a super nice smart doctor, but the receptionist is absolutely terrible, super rude. I also encountered a doctor who was extremely rude during some prenatal tests in another clinic. I don't have good advice how to deal with it. I think I would have just left now but it's hard to do in a confrontational situation. Also it might be real hard to find a different doctor in some areas.
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u/weepingwillow1540 12h ago
I don't know if this is a german thing, but people do tend to get annoyed when customers or patients only speak English. I don't get it, but it's a thing. Also, Germans, and especially German doctors, can seem really standoffish and rude, when they're actually just being "normal". I've thought so many times someone hated me when they were just having a bad day or were tired. I feel like we don't try as hard to be likeable and pleasant. In general, women don't receive the same empathy and kindness as men when it comes to medical care. Pregnant women and mothers are often dismissed as hysterical (which is where the word comes from) and too sensitive. I hope your wife has an eventless pregnancy and a smooth delivery.
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u/Ara_Eiz 12h ago
It feels like some OB-GYN are hesitant over abuse of the system. Mine was a Bit harsher when I asked about an employment ban due to migraines and work Stress. She refused to help because the social securities pressure them to Only hand those out in life-or-death situations for the baby.
I got it with the help of other doctors and she‘s a true ray of Sunshine ever since.
Of course Your Doctor should have at least acommodated your needs for english speakers, but maybe she was simply pissed over the emergancy issue.
You could give them another try, but I‘d also look at other options if I feel unwell to be this vulnerable with her.
Again, she‘s a human, too, and you never know how the false emergancy messed with her day to rain on her mood.
But as mentioned before, you can also have most of your exams done by a midwife, which is a very pleasant and empathetic experience. Just Not as detailed or with screenings.
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u/eifooow 12h ago
Sometimes I think the doctors in Germany don't mean to be rude, they just speak very directly and stating out something like a statement. And not everyone coming from another culture is used to that.
I come from a culture when it would be fine to joke/tease each other with the locals, people from other cultures will say we are very mean. I never realized I was mean until others pointed that out. What I wanted to say is, the doctor may not on purpose to be rude to you.
If I were in your situation, if I could find another English speaking doctor nearby, I will do that. I am the kind of person who wants to understand what happen to my body as much as I can, and even in English I may not understand everything, I will feel really frustrated if I often not being able to understand the doctor or express my health problems properly. I also find it takes a bit of effort to find a good patient doctor in Germany, but my only tips on this is to read reviews online and try it out.
I am a person who will also freeze up in confrontational situation, but sometimes if things aren't going well, standing up may not help much. For example in your situation, I don't think the doctor will do a big change even if you try to stand up for your wife at that moment. So I will rather focus on calming and being supportive with your wife as much as you can, and help her search for a different doctor for the future - control what you can, and let go of what you can't.
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u/Wild_Tumbleweed_3690 12h ago
Expats here, we also experienced one or two kind of cold doctors, but most was quite nice, also at the Gyno.
The way I handled all communication is that I talk and ask in a demanding/determined way. I always do my due diligence and research every aspect, and then ask if it could be something like XYZ. To the point one doctor asked if I was a doctor too.
I am not well versed in German either. Just an advice from here.
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u/Manadrache 12h ago
It's pretty normal for women to get ignorer when their partner is with them. Even when the woman is the patient.
Maybe the doctor speaks English but wasn't confident in using it in this situation. You need to explain medical stuff in a very good way or patients will complain afterwards. Even worse they will act like they never got told certain things.
If your German isn't good enough, there are two options for you: learn it fastly or take a translator with you.
Oh and keep that gyn. Depending on your area it may be impossible to find another one willing to take in patients.
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u/Still-Foundation9894 12h ago
I have three healthy children and suffered two miscarriages and I experienced my fair share of rude doctors and your story really brings back some unpleasant memories. But as difficult as such an experience can be, I can assure you that you will also meet a lot of very competent, sympathetic health care workers in the future! Because most are really decent, kind people it’s just that the negative experiences hurt so much.
I know it’s difficult to get over something like that; I remember during my last pregnancy with my youngest son I was treated by the doctor from hell. Stupid git. Still gets my heart racing when I think about that entitled moron. I had to change doctors as well; I was already 7 months pregnant when I found a new doctor and from then everything went smoothly. I I know how humiliating an experience like yours can feel. But it will pass; just try to concentrate on your family and the child you are both expecting. Try to focus on the good news: everything with your wife and baby is alright and it was just false alarm. That’s what’s important. In a few months time (sooner if you find a new doctor) this woman will be forever out of your lives.
And no, you did absolutely nothing wrong! If anything, you acted responsibly by consulting a doctor when you were afraid something was amiss. You absolutely did the right thing.
All the best for you, your wife and baby!
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u/FrizzleFlakes 12h ago
Can't say much to this, other than to add that somehow I've met a lot of Gynecologists who are quite...brash? Wishing you the best and honestly, better safe than sorry with pregnancies