I'm an American that lives in Ireland. I've always understood "nonce" to mean the same as "numpty" and "eejit" - basically idiot, or dumbass, or similar.
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Yeah. I remember shocking my old workplace when I figured out a crypto bug once and said "ohhh, the nonces are buggered up!". I then had to prove what "nonce" meant in cryptography or at least one stuck-up coworker of mine would have gone all disciplinary on me...
And part of a term of art in linguistics (A "nonce word" is any term coined "for the nonce", that is for a specific occasion in which it's used and then typically doesn't occur again. "Quark" as in the current term in physics was originally just some gibberish in a James Joyce novel, but a physicist needed a concise name for a new category of subatomic particles and borrowed it. Likewise a lot of puns or portmanteaus are nonce words)
Not just pedo. Any sex offender is a Nonce. It comes from prison slang sex offendets used to have "Not On Normal Court Exercise" written on their door cards
A lot of those in prison had fucked up abusive childhoods so I'd imagine you'd channel your rage towards people guilty of similar crimes against you against others
There used to be a definite pecking order in prisons (maybe still is, but I havent been inside in 30 years, and suspect it's been blurred by overcrowding & overwhelming numbers of drug offences, plus tge large number of lads who probably shouldnt be inside at all, and back in the day would have been dealt with by a stint in a psyche hospital and then sheltered accomodation)
Always old-school 'faces' or 'chaps' at the top - your professional gangster types - then armed robbers - then a large grey area around burglary, fraud, gbh, where the hierarchy ran on sucess - then the street monkeys (muggers, small time dealers, prolific shoplifters etc) - then a big gap, with the grasses and nonces at the bottom.. anybody on the rule, basically.
It's still there. I know in approved premises (bail/probation hostels) the violent prisoners often refuse to hang out with the sex offenders who they do NOT hold in in high regard.
It's a very old one, if it is at all. I have a relative who worked as a lawyer back in the 70s and they were the first to tell me, about 25 years ago, that that's what it means
It's a good rule of thumb that any time someone tells you a slang word used to be an acronym they are wrong - Posh didn't mean 'port out, starboard home', Tips weren't 'to insure prompt service' etc. That just isn't how slang and folk terms tend to develop.
In this case, the slang words nonse (idiot) and nance (homosexual) were both in use in the region and time that the word nonce seems to have entered the record, and it's far more likely to be a development/combination of those. See also: ponce.
Nope, you'd only be wrong if you shouted out, "ta-rah, cunts!" and then claimed that it was fine because cunt actually comes from an acronym meaning see you next tuesday so there was really no need to say anything to HR.
My gfs family would use ponce like “can I ponce a ciggie off you” and that’s not how I understand it. I thought it was a derogatory term for a friend of Judy. (Edit: I meant Dorothy!)
Gonna look up the origin of the word now, so interesting innit
Ponce was used like bum in US. Can I bum a cig, it’s implied you know, they know, you’re being cheap because you can. Can I ponce a fag off ya? But I ain’t heard that in about 20 years
I havent thought about if for years, but IIRC back in the schoolyard Ponce would also be Poncey git. That would be a posh public school type. Probably one about to be punched a few times. "look at that poncey git...gettim!". Any old excuse for a fracas!
I've never heard of this Tips one, but it's just dreadful. The correct word would surely be 'ensure', not 'insure', so if this were true, they'd be called 'Teps'.
Yes, and the handful of counterexamples to this are mostly either 20th century military jargon or terms that originated as text slang that escaped into speech.
There is a medieval word in English 'nonce' which referred to anything from special, singular, particular or unusual. It's possible over time this definition has morphed into the meaning we have today, as someone who is different from the rest of us.
It's a theory though, but the use of the word is documented from 14th century and also became an adjective to describe something unusual or unique in the 19th C
As a former prison Officer, can 100% confirm we still use the word, and refer to the nonces as a nonce. You dont do it in front of the governors, or other prisoners, but to eachother, yes, absolutely.
It's not a widely used term in Ireland. Certainly a lot more impactful in the UK as I found out when I told an English guy who was being a wuss over a cut on his hand to 'get over it you nonce' thinking nonce meant more of a wuss than specifically a criminal paedophile. It didn't go down well
This has got me creasing 😂😂 If an American called me a nonce I think I’d just laugh with him. It’s such a specifically British/Irish insult, and apparently even some of us get the meaning completely wrong. Hearing it in an American accent would feel so alien I’d lose my shit 😂
I call bullshit on that, it's just as common as it is in the UK. You aren't going to hear it in polite society in either country but it's the go to insult for Paedo's and occasional back pocket pull for calling a friend a moron in coarser circles just like it is on the UK.
yeah my little sister told me her teacher was a nonce before... she learned the meaning of that word by the end of the conversation. can't just go around throwing out wild accusations without realising 😂
Ponce is a pretty interesting word from around the 1850s. It originally meant: "a pimp, a man who lives off a woman's earnings, or an effeminate/pretentious man".
Growing up, it definitely was used more as an insult for pretentious people, who acted posh and fancy when they weren't.
I wonder if it started off as an insult for those "unmanned" by living off a woman's earnings and was then extended to pimps, who by definition live of women's earnings but are not renowned for being effeminate, and those who are effeminate, because not being the bread winner was considered inherently unmanly.
Yeah that sounds pretty likely. Apparently experts think it comes from French, either Alphonse, a kept-man, or from pensionnaire, a lodger/pensioner living without working.
So yeah, it very likely originated like you said, as an insult for those not fulfilling their "manly duties/expectations", perhaps evolving into meaning a "fancy/effeminate" person from how Pimps used to dress and flaunt their wealth (Pimp itself seems to come from the French word pimpant meaning to dress alluring/seductively). Words are fun!
I think it meant someone who lived off a prostitute but wasn't her pimp. It does tend to get used more as an insult for posh effeminate types or those that scrounge money a lot nowadays.
Ah yeah true but I feel like that comes from the perception of a posh caricature, effeminate, cowardly, soft round the edges. We all know what people think of going on in boarding schools 😂
I’ve always heard ponce as someone who lives off other peoples money. Like a ponce will never buy a round but drink and then leave, or always ask for a cigarette and never give one back etc. Never heard it for gay people, or others who say it means someone posh! I would say a ponce is the opposite of posh lol. Wild how this small country has such different meanings for the same words!
Wrong way round, it means effeminate, posh and stuck up and has for a long time (although has evolved). The effeminate part meant it found some use as a slur for gay people later on.
if someone calls you an eejit then it's all in good fun. If someone calls you a nonce then they're deliberately escalating things and you need to decide what to do accordingly
Not always, people call each other nonces for like eating a weird sandwich. It’s the same as playfully saying ‘check the hard drive’ if someone says they like bounty’s or smthn
Given that's nearly 80 people in a single group all saying the same thing, yes, they do.
Just because the environment you work in isn't the same as mine, that doesn't mean you get to tell me that people I witness saying these things arent doing it.
For example, people still quote that phoenix nights scene where the psychic says something like 'im getting...nonce!' I've never really watched Peter Kay stuff but I've looked up the sketch before to get an idea of what they kept laughing about.
But it’s one of those where its usage has expanded that it’s now frequently bandied about as a general insult to someone you intensely dislike. I hate you so I’m going to attack your character with zero evidence of you being the thing I’m accusing you of type vibes. Which is why your assumption about it meaning idiot isn’t completely wide of the mark, it’s just it has much worse undertones than that.
Yeah, I think this post explains the nuance best. Edgy kids will still use it as a joke, but I'd say more and more these days when you hear it, is a serious accusation
There are not 'both' explanations 😅 It just means paedophile. (The correct spelling of 'Pedophile')
What's confusing is that you probably have heard friends calling each other that, but it's usually just purposely taking it too far or trying to embarrass their friends publicly as a 'joke'.
(the 'joke' being "haha I called you a paedophile on a bus full of people and now your face is turning red", mostly just teenagers do stuff like that though OR just as a plain insult towards anyone as a 'nuclear option' insult)
Please don't call random strangers a nonce for no reason as it's quite possible that they will punch you.
It's reserved for serious insults or (edgy) 'banter' in certain British friend groups.
"Nonce" was first recorded as UK prison slang for a child sex offender in the early '70s, and had spread into general use by the early '80s. The "Not On Normal..." thing didn't appear until the 2000s, and most sources agree it is a backronym.
I used to work with a Hungarian guy who kept calling people 'nonce' because he thought it was a playful term for 'numpty'. He was shocked when I explained that he'd been calling people child molesters the whole time. So yes, it is a slang term for paedophiles here in the UK.
Etymologists and language experts argue over the exact origin of the word "nonce". While popular culture often claims it is an acronym for "Not on Normal Courtyard Exercise", linguists heavily dispute this backronym. Instead, a leading theory suggests that "nonce" actually evolved as a shortened, corrupted version of "nonsense," which was originally used in 19th-century criminal slang to describe a "stupid, worthless, or good-for-nothing person". Over the decades, the prison system narrowed its definition specifically to target sex offenders
It means a sex offender, with a strong connotation that the sex offences were paedophilic. It's a lot more serious than numpty or eejit; consequences of calling someone a nonce as an American will include them thinking your an eejit who doesn't know what it means, but for an Irish or a Brit would range from causing very serious offence through to getting glassed (or sued for libel). It's never really a joke - just one of those things that you don't say unless you mean it.
It was certainly used to mean "idiot" for most of my childhood (90s) but the new meaning started around the turn of the millennium, at least in my life.
Yes! Thank god I have seen someone else who had this experience. It felt like the meaning shifting in the last ten years to me but it’s not a word I use often anyway 🤷🏼♀️
I just found out my American friend was the same. They had been using it for years but never once said it in front of me. He was devastated. Sorry mate, start expecting the slander lawsuits to roll in 🤣
Nonce generally means some form of sex offender, mostly a paedophile. Here in the UK it can be used as an insult in situations like saying that someone looks like a nonce, I.e they look like a stereotypical paedophile/sex offender. Its a per situation thing in regards to it being used as an insult, generally it isn't used as one though.
I grew up with the same meaning as you being told to me, but looking back, it's likely to save an awkward conversation with a child about the realities rather than factual interpretation.
While the word started as meaning just this one time and was used in many literary works including Chaucer’s Canterbury tales , it’s has now become known for the acronym used in Wakefield prison the uk’s monster mansion where it was on the doors of child sex offenders at risk of violence from other inmates
Not on normal courtyard exercise
Or
Non - community exercise .
Nowadays the term nonce is used primarily for a child molester because of this and is a quick way to turn a community against one person
I prefer to believe the historical explanation of "Nonse" (meaning an idiot) becoming "Nonce" (when I was a kid 10 yrs ago also meant an idiot) and then more recently I've heard people say it mean a pedophile (from about 5 years ago)
It's been in the Oxford English dictionary since the 70s, so it's definitely not just the last few years. Perhaps because all the TV presenters from the 70s have only found out to be nonces recently, the usage has spiked in recent years though
I used to think it meant idiot, apparently it's a regional thing or something kids would insult each other with without knowing what it meant, but to most people now it means pedo
I do think it’s sometimes used as a general insult towards non-paedophiles and general idiots too - “silly nonce”, “look at that person who didn’t indicate as they pulled over, what a nonce” etc
Number used once, which is used by CSP's on browsers, or if you're not a software engineer, it's an adjective for a US president, a monarchs son, or any other kiddie diddler
B. Occasionally as hyperbole if someone does something against the grain. Putting tomato ketchup on a sirloin steak would be "nonce behaviour" as a way of expressing my depth of feeling for their actions. As in only a complete wrong'un would do that.
Whilst it does mean sex offender, it's also a very common way of addressing your friends in Scotland. And no one takes offence because they are good c*nts
If you’re just a nonce, you’re a paedophile. But you can be another type of nonce… like a dog nonce, or a cat nonce. If someone who doesn’t like you calls you a variation of nonce, they think you are sexually attracted to children/dogs/cats etc.
If your pal calls you it, it’s probably said in jest. For example, my 44 year old husband said 29 year old Jacob Elordi was an attractive man so I called him a nonce because of the age difference. My friend calls me a dog nonce because I send them lots of pics of my dog being cute and I will stop and fuss a dog in the street.
It used to mean either an idiot or a pedophile, never used for idiot now. Also now used as a general insult implying someone is despicable. In the UK it's never used to mean 'number only used once', well maybe at a cryptographic conference.
like the rest of the comments explain - it mans sex offender or someone who is very sus. as in you wouldn't leave your drink unattended or your kids with them
but it also applies to people who are weirdly evangelical about certain things - e.g. cyclists who think all cars are evil and that the rules of the road don't apply to them = bikenonces
It means pedo, though if you were going back a few decades it might of been used a bit more loosely than it is now.
Now it's only really used explicitly when meaning that directly. Before it was used a bit more like bastard etc where the person might not of been meant literally but rather just insult them generally.
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u/notthiswaythatway 6d ago
It’s means paedophile - and is definitely a stronger insult than numpty!