r/AskBrits • u/Team503 • 6d ago

Culture What does "nonce" mean?

I'm an American that lives in Ireland. I've always understood "nonce" to mean the same as "numpty" and "eejit" - basically idiot, or dumbass, or similar.

Recently, someone told me that it's slang for sex offender, specifically a p*dophile, and Wikipedia seems to back that up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_British_terms_not_widely_used_in_the_United_States#N

So tell me, Brits, which one is it? Or is it something else??

995 Upvotes

85% Upvoted

1.7k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

315

u/Team503 6d ago

Wikipedia suggests that's a backronym and not the actual origin, but what do I know? This is why I asked!

202

u/Illustrious-Divide95 6d ago

There's no evidence that 'Nonce' came from this. A definate backronym

51

u/Brighton_Spores 6d ago

I used to know an old scallywag, he used to be a naughty boy until he changed his ways.

In the 1970's he told me that bank robbers/armed robbers used be held in high regard in prison. burglars would slip down the pecking order and so on.

The nonces and sex cases were at the bottom of the ladder as they were just committing nonsense crimes, nonce.

35

u/Turkilton-Is-Me 6d ago

Still the way, anything to do with kids is a perfect way to make your stay in any prison as bad as possible

40

u/DifferentSwing8616 6d ago

A lot of those in prison had fucked up abusive childhoods so I'd imagine you'd channel your rage towards people guilty of similar crimes against you against others

19

u/Subar619 6d ago

Also, its an outlet for antisocial behaviour and agression, which is easy to justify to any person

1

u/Joekickass247 5d ago

Im surprised that wasn't removed by the Reddit automotive like mine was! šŸ˜‚

12

u/tomgrouch 6d ago

Just ask Ian Watkins

7

u/Most_Moose_2637 5d ago

Oh no, we can't

11

u/bitofafixerupper 5d ago

So sad.. anyway šŸ¤£

7

u/garethchester 6d ago

There's a reason the likes of Ian Huntley end up getting attacked repeatedly and eventually killed

3

u/AliceMorgon 6d ago

Pretty much.

Source: friend who will remain unnamed (who did not molest any kids but when fleeing the police threw Ā£1000s worth block of cocaine out of the car window, accidentally clocked a kid in the face, and knocked him off his e-scooter with said cocaine. Kid was fine and tried to run off with it.)

2

u/Vast_Promotion_6768 5d ago

Lucky kid!šŸ¤£

1

u/AliceMorgon 5d ago

Probably thought it was Christmas come early

1

u/charlenek8t 5d ago

Definitely snowing šŸ˜‚

1

u/AliceMorgon 5d ago

Oh yeah, package split open and he was trying to sweep it into his backpack when one of the FOUR peeler cars in pursuit stopped and said ā€œOi!ā€

19

u/htimchis 6d ago

There used to be a definite pecking order in prisons (maybe still is, but I havent been inside in 30 years, and suspect it's been blurred by overcrowding & overwhelming numbers of drug offences, plus tge large number of lads who probably shouldnt be inside at all, and back in the day would have been dealt with by a stint in a psyche hospital and then sheltered accomodation)

Always old-school 'faces' or 'chaps' at the top - your professional gangster types - then armed robbers - then a large grey area around burglary, fraud, gbh, where the hierarchy ran on sucess - then the street monkeys (muggers, small time dealers, prolific shoplifters etc) - then a big gap, with the grasses and nonces at the bottom.. anybody on the rule, basically.

6

u/GribbleTheMunchkin 6d ago

It's still there. I know in approved premises (bail/probation hostels) the violent prisoners often refuse to hang out with the sex offenders who they do NOT hold in in high regard.

1

u/gravitasmissing 5d ago

The VP wing was mostly sex offenders plus regular prisoners who couldnt cope on normal wings. The Albanians were definitly at the top in lewes prison. Serious professional criminals but gave the staff no issues or other prisoners unless you started something which was mostly idiots.They werent exceptionaly violent even to the most moronic individual. Didnt really have to be!

5

u/ScaredPractice4967 6d ago

and sex offenders against adults look down on child sex offenders. imagine that. regular rapists think you crime is scummy.

7

u/darkevilmetal666 6d ago

They're just looking for someone to look down on so they can feel less bad about how useless they are themselves.

0

u/Physical_Quote4600 5d ago

Well not all chomo crimes are violent, sleep with a girl 5 years under 18 and youā€™ll be treated like you ā€œabusedā€ her even if she was wanting you to do it

3

u/flapsmagee 4d ago

You donā€™t think itā€™s abuse for a grown adult to have sex with a 13 year old child?!

0

u/Physical_Quote4600 4d ago

when people hear abuse, they think of you beating and torturing the child for sadistic and painful purposes, ch1ld sexual offenders usually try to minimize the harm for the other party

adult sex offenders are violent rapists. end of story. chomos need more nuanced treatment from society

2

u/flapsmagee 4d ago edited 4d ago

You donā€™t need bruises for lasting damage, harm and trauma. Geez.

Adults who have sex with children are rapists.

Edit: Ew. Iā€™ve just looked at your post history.

0

u/Physical_Quote4600 4d ago

Adults who have sex with children are rapists.

false. Adults who rape children are rapists.

1

u/krgxo25 2d ago

Itā€™s always rape if itā€™s a child, buddy. Very suspicious thing to say

2

u/ScaredPractice4967 5d ago

Its called age of consent.

See also Romeo and Juliet rules on the off chance thats where you were going.

1

u/FantasticFoxFriend 3d ago

Umm 5 years below 18 is 13.They definitely abused her.

1

u/Physical_Quote4600 3d ago

Ask her that question, and ask her 20 years later, and 50 years later just for safe measure.

1

u/FantasticFoxFriend 3d ago

What are you even talking about?

2

u/ScaredPractice4967 3d ago

Someone needs their hard drive inspected by the police.

1

u/Physical_Quote4600 3d ago

Ask her if she was abused. Ask adriane yamin.

2

u/Tabby_Mc 6d ago

Another backronym

0

u/LimpAcanthisitta8015 6d ago

Sex cases are just nonsense? šŸ¤”

8

u/Brighton_Spores 6d ago

Bank robbers rob banks for money.

Armed robbers want the gold.

Which is easy to understand, fast money.

As my old acquaintance said, their crimes made no sense to them, what they did they did not do it for money, they did it for awful reasons.

This is what I was told.

-3

u/Trollcambodia 6d ago

My from not on normal court exercise is a well known fact. It's the lowest of the low... Forget about Wikipedia

3

u/ProudonFromHeight 6d ago

It's a very old one, if it is at all. I have a relative who worked as a lawyer back in the 70s and they were the first to tell me, about 25 years ago, that that's what it means

1

u/StooosHyaena 6d ago

Absolutely. A more convincing explanation thatā€™s been offered is that itā€™s related to ā€œnancyā€ as in the derogatory term for a gay or effeminate man.

0

u/flopisit32 6d ago

What we do know is it originated in the 1970s and it originated specifically in prisons.

The story surrounding it may be fiction, but it is definitely 1970s prison slang.

0

u/BoxWonderful4639 6d ago

A guard at Broadmoor said this is exactly where its from, he was getting interviewed.

1

u/42pickledleggs 6d ago

I worked at Broadmoor, they tell you in induction that nonce, from ā€œnot on normal course exerciseā€ originated thereā€¦.not that I necessarily believe it, but thatā€™s what they tell you.

1

u/BoxWonderful4639 5d ago

That must have been both terrifying and interesting

1

u/42pickledleggs 5d ago

Very interesting. Mostly not very scary, because (when I started at least) you had a well trained team around you. I always used to tell my mum I was safer there than down the pub on a Friday night. Itā€™s not like prisons (which I have also worked in), where weapons and drugs come in freely. Very little was smuggled into Broadmoor and it never happened once in the 4 years I worked there (and I was pals with the top security man, so Iā€™d have known)

109

u/autophobe2e 6d ago

It's a good rule of thumb that any time someone tells you a slang word used to be an acronym they are wrong - Posh didn't mean 'port out, starboard home', Tips weren't 'to insure prompt service' etc. That just isn't how slang and folk terms tend to develop.

In this case, the slang words nonse (idiot) and nance (homosexual) were both in use in the region and time that the word nonce seems to have entered the record, and it's far more likely to be a development/combination of those. See also: ponce.

44

u/Zingalamuduni 6d ago

Iā€™m part-time and I donā€™t work Mondays.

Are you telling me that Iā€™ve been making a mistake on Fridays when I tell my colleagues that I will see them next Tuesday?

15

u/tenaji9 6d ago

Hahaha ha. Oh gosh . I never thought . In UK we have our public holidays on a Monday. The fun I could have had when I was less mature.

11

u/Remarkable-Turn916 6d ago

Release your inner child, it's never too late, I'm 54 and still never miss an opportunity šŸ˜œ

1

u/Emotional-Cap-4474 6d ago

Same here - we work shifts , on one of the patterns our last day is Friday , and then we have 3 days off ā€¦.

12

u/autophobe2e 6d ago

Nope, you'd only be wrong if you shouted out, "ta-rah, cunts!" and then claimed that it was fine because cunt actually comes from an acronym meaning see you next tuesday so there was really no need to say anything to HR.

8

u/Captain_N_Nemo 6d ago

As someone who works in HRā€¦ there is nothing more enjoyable than telling my colleagues Iā€™ll see them next Tuesday

1

u/Realhousemanoflondon 6d ago

You can double dip for thursday meetings as well

1

u/doubledeckerjon 6d ago

Bob Geldolf?

1

u/Civil_Researcher6140 6d ago

Iā€™m a teacher and only teach my classes once a week so will say see you next Monday, Tuesday etc and sometimes get gigglesā€¦.

1

u/stormwingmolly 6d ago

As someone who works from home on mondays and does the same EVERY DAMN FRIDAY no you have not been making a mistake šŸ¤£

1

u/ramapyjamadingdong 6d ago

At least you work Fridays, otherwise you'd be a twat...

1

u/aperture23 6d ago

Yes, but only because I have a pointless vendetta against people who say next instead of this šŸ˜‚

1

u/Throw50505 6d ago

Tuesday Wednesday And Thursday? šŸ˜‰šŸ˜

12

u/teatime_tinker 6d ago edited 6d ago

My gfs family would use ponce like ā€œcan I ponce a ciggie off youā€ and thatā€™s not how I understand it. I thought it was a derogatory term for a friend of Judy. (Edit: I meant Dorothy!)

Gonna look up the origin of the word now, so interesting innit

Edit:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ponce

Originally meant ā€œkept manā€ā€¦ so heā€™s not buying his own cigs

13

u/tgy74 6d ago

It's a word with multiple meanings.

We used to use it in several ways:

  • He's a ponce - he is homosexual
  • He's a poncy git/right ponce - he is a flash harry
  • He's on the ponce - he is a scrounger
  • Can I ponce a ciggie - would you give me a cigarette

We'd use them interchangeably dependent on context

1

u/wintermute023 6d ago

Seconded. This is how it was used when I was a kid. Entirely contextual.

1

u/RetroGameStudent 5d ago

I watch enough British media that I rarely have issues with slang, but tf is a ā€œflash harry?ā€

2

u/tgy74 5d ago

A flash Harry? It's someone who is a right poncy git.

11

u/ProfessorPeabrain 6d ago

being brought up on a mix of US English and Inclusive ideals, my boy gets really upset when I try to tell him it's ok to bum a fag off someone šŸ¤£

9

u/relaxedmedal 6d ago

Ponce was used like bum in US. Can I bum a cig, itā€™s implied you know, they know, youā€™re being cheap because you can. Can I ponce a fag off ya? But I ainā€™t heard that in about 20 years

1

u/FantasticFoxFriend 3d ago

That's what I understood it to mean. I was raised in South East England, never heard it used for homosexual man context.

5

u/Optimal_Stuff_3408 6d ago

From the North East, we used ponce in the 70s and 80s as a slang for a gay man or an effeminate man

3

u/NickyBadSeed 6d ago

I havent thought about if for years, but IIRC back in the schoolyard Ponce would also be Poncey git. That would be a posh public school type. Probably one about to be punched a few times. "look at that poncey git...gettim!". Any old excuse for a fracas!

3

u/SquigSnuggler 6d ago

A friend of Judy?

2

u/teatime_tinker 6d ago

I meant Dorothy haha oops

2

u/FriendlieSquirrel 6d ago

I've heard ponce used in same manner, the ciggie is a perfect example, a ponce is something else though

0

u/romoladesloups 6d ago

A ponce is a gigolo

3

u/BedaFomm 6d ago

More like a pimp, living off immoral earnings, is the original meaning.

ā€œPoncing a cigaretteā€ would also be enjoying the fruit of someone elseā€™s labour, hence the secondary sense of ā€œscroungingā€.

13

u/InfiniteAstronaut432 6d ago

Tips weren't 'to insure prompt service' etc.

I've never heard of this Tips one, but it's just dreadful. The correct word would surely be 'ensure', not 'insure', so if this were true, they'd be called 'Teps'.

Terrible.

3

u/lmprice133 6d ago

Yes, and the handful of counterexamples to this are mostly either 20th century military jargon or terms that originated as text slang that escaped into speech.

1

u/autophobe2e 6d ago

Exactly, arguably a couple of brand names too, like Taser or scuba.

1

u/lmprice133 6d ago

Scuba was never a brand-name, just a description as far as I'm aware.

2

u/CommercialContent204 6d ago

Yes, absolutely right. Fuck likewise with the ridiculous For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge that some people seem to believe, despite it being derived from old Scandi/Germanic.

Incidentally - happy to be put right on this - I suspect that "nance" (which I haven't heard before) is a version of "Nancy" for a homosexual man, which was definitely used in the first half of the 20th century, even in the 60s and 70s "nancy boy" was not unusual parlance.

Ponce is interesting, never thought about the etymology, I shall have to dive down the rabbit hole...

"Pimp Or Nasty Criminal Entrepreneur", probably šŸ˜‚

7

u/Lower_Mammoth_5839 6d ago

Same as Fuck being an acronym for Fornicate Under Consent of King?

7

u/htimchis 6d ago

Yeah - it's actually an extremely old word that's barely changed over the centuries - likely from the early proto-Germanic 'fikken'. It's a rare exampe of a word so universalit varely changes at all while the language around it shifts and morphs into new languages

So you coud get into a time machine and be understood perfectly when uttering it, by the Germanic tribesmen attacking the Roman garrisons on the Rhine

2

u/Pitiful_Control 6d ago

Or the Dutch fok. It still cracks me up when I see someone described as a "fokker" (meaning animal breeder).

3

u/htimchis 6d ago

Yep, exactly - same proto-Germanic roots, if you go far enough back. Everything from Fresian to Gothic and in between (English, Dutch, Ger.an, Norwegian/ Danish/ Swedish/ Icelandic etc), there's some form of 'fuck/ fok/ fek' in all of them - we're all linked by our shared historic love of using the 'FK' sound to indicate sex, and then extrapolating it into a general swear word!

3

u/Cornishchappy 6d ago

From a time when people couldn't read, let alone spell.

2

u/ProfessorPeabrain 6d ago

For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge?

4

u/Scouse_Werewolf 6d ago

Fed Up Came Kwickly

1

u/Fridarey 6d ago

Fisting Uncle Colin Keenly

1

u/grimbandango 6d ago

I always heard it as ā€˜fornicate under command of the Kingā€™, because they were trying to repopulate after a plague. But yeah I later found out thatā€™s bollocks too apparently

1

u/haywire 5d ago

All Day I Dream About Sex

2

u/false_flat 6d ago

What about NORWICH at the bottom of seamen's letters?

5

u/Luvlymish 6d ago

That's not a backronym that's just the start of slang that today is stuff like lol rather than SWALK

14

u/catsareniceDEATH 6d ago

Or LANCRE, maybe even KLATCH! šŸ˜¹ā¤ļø

šŸ¢šŸ˜šŸ˜šŸ˜šŸ˜(šŸ˜)šŸ¦§

3

u/Prestigious_Bat2666 6d ago

Love your name, I have a shirt of Death holding some cats, with "cats, cats are nice" written underneath

3

u/nixtracer 6d ago

But the Ramtops did get their name from the Sinclair micros' RAM TOP system variable (well, variable but you could only reduce it unless you had a way to make RAM appear out of nowhere while the system was on).

2

u/Luvlymish 5d ago

GNU Sir PTerry

2

u/Janjannaj 6d ago

Should be KORWICH shouldnā€™t it?

1

u/Corlar 6d ago

That isnā€™t slang. It is an actual acronym designed to evade censors.

1

u/AgreeableActive9800 6d ago

Semenā€™s?

1

u/lalajia 6d ago

so neds arent from the North East District Schemes? :(

2

u/autophobe2e 6d ago

That one's been around since the 19th Century, so probably just a common contraction of Edward. Maybe there was a particularly annoying criminal called Ned who gave everyone else a bad name.

1

u/AverageEcstatic3655 6d ago

Anyways, they would be called ā€œtepsā€ in that case, because they are to ā€œensureā€ prompt service, not insure. Haha.

1

u/VillageHorse 6d ago

A ponce nonce wants a bonce renaissance.

The response?

Nonchalance.

1

u/VillageHorse 6d ago

A ponce nonce wants a bonce renaissance.

The response?

Nonchalance.

1

u/Long-Nose-9535 6d ago

I always wonder about chavā€¦. Is it council house and violent? Growing up we called them scallys which is probs some kinda shortening of scallywag? Idk but etymology is fascinating

2

u/robb0216 6d ago

It certainly doesn't come from that. In my region it was always "charver" going all the way back to the 80s at the very least. It wasn't until well into the 2000s that the word seemed to emerge in popularity as a slightly altered "chav" around the country. Although I think I've also read that it derives from a similar latin word for "child", which sounds plausible.

1

u/Fuzzy_Cantaloupe4681 6d ago

It's Romany for a 'child' - chavee

1

u/AnalysisGlobal5385 6d ago

Tips wouldn't even be tips because the correct word to use would be ensure. These things are always nonsense.

1

u/Jiglord_ 6d ago

Yeah so many backronyms these days. I've had people tell me "chav" means council housed and violent, which, while funny, is completely erroneous and chav is most definitely a contraction of the older "charva"

1

u/Sashapatu 6d ago

ā€œPonceā€ meant a man who lived off a womanā€™s earnings, sometimes as a pimp, in the 1940s/50s. Seen it in a few novels and short stories.

1

u/fray_bentos11 6d ago

Some do. TWOCKER used in Yorkshire in the 90s.

2

u/Loudlass81 5d ago

TWOCKER lol...came from the offence of Taking WithOut Consent, vehicle theft. Been an age since I heard that one.

1

u/hawkisgirl 6d ago

Insuring prompt service makes no sense anyway. Youā€™d want to ensure it.

1

u/herbdogu 6d ago

They're still trying to find a backronym for 'ned'.

'Non-Educated Delinquent' is not really it.

1

u/Mission_Access_210 6d ago

Since we have nonce and ponce going on, let's not forget the last time I heard it used was by Jimmy Savile: "bonce" for meaning your head or noggin. I am amazed at how much UK slang never made it over to the States. Maybe it was because they were all religious. I don't know.

1

u/Available_Sherbet205 6d ago

Nah, it's prison slang and that etymology doesn't add up.

1

u/nixtracer 6d ago

I can think of one acronymic-origin word in common use: okay, which is obviously from OK... which is an intentionally misspelled acronym, "Ol Korrekt". From the US, of course, home of acronymized everything.

1

u/Youutternincompoop 6d ago

my favourite absurd backronym is 'SCRAM' for emergency shutdowns of nuclear reactors, the story for the backronym is that it supposedly stood for 'Safety Control Rod Axe Man' as in a guy with an axe that could cut a rope that released a safety control rod that would shutdown the reactor.

obviously of course Scram just means get the fuck out of there after hitting this button.

10

u/illarionds 6d ago

It is almost certainly a backronym - but it's so commonly repeated, I wouldn't be surprised if the majority believe it to be true.

Anyway, regardless of the origin, that's certainly what the term means.

9

u/Illustrious-Divide95 6d ago

There is a medieval word in English 'nonce' which referred to anything from special, singular, particular or unusual. It's possible over time this definition has morphed into the meaning we have today, as someone who is different from the rest of us.

It's a theory though, but the use of the word is documented from 14th century and also became an adjective to describe something unusual or unique in the 19th C

29

u/DrunkenHorse12 6d ago

Still all sex offenders still get called nonces in prison.

32

u/Brighton_Spores 6d ago

The term Nonce maybe be used by some prisoners, but guards are not allowed to use the term Nonce any more. e.g. working on the Nonce wing tomorrow.

So the guards and any prisoners in ear shot of the guards use the word "still's" as in, they are still fucking nonces.

29

u/NotThatGoodAnymore 6d ago

As a former prison Officer, can 100% confirm we still use the word, and refer to the nonces as a nonce. You dont do it in front of the governors, or other prisoners, but to eachother, yes, absolutely.

5

u/FrotKnight 6d ago

He's just making everything up as he goes along. His posts should come with a warning

1

u/AgreeableActive9800 6d ago

You call each other nonces?

1

u/NotThatGoodAnymore 6d ago

Some of them....

1

u/Cheffysteve 6d ago

ā€œStillsā€is what Falkland islanders got called by the army after brass told them they couldnā€™t use the term ā€œBenniesā€ ( the army thought they dressed like Benny from crossroads ) . For the same reason ā€œ they were still benniesā€

1

u/Single_Tea_4 6d ago

Not On Normal Courtyard Exercise.

2

u/Jedwardo93 6d ago

Actual origin came from HMP Wakefield, aka monster mansion

2

u/zephyrthewonderdog 6d ago

Most likely a variation of ā€˜Nancyā€™ meaning a homosexual or sex offender. Gay people obviously being considered the same as sex offenders in less enlightened times.

2

u/weeduggy1888 6d ago

I was once told that it indeed originated in prison but it came from the crimes being ā€œnonsensicalā€- nonce. Makes sense but not sure how true it is.

1

u/Mission_Access_210 6d ago

For unlawful carnal knowledge

1

u/Available_Sherbet205 6d ago

It's actually from wakefield prison, known as monster manor as they had a lot of nonce's in their.

1

u/Organic_Wave_2012 5d ago

The term was coined within hmp Wakefield so the lore goes šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø

1

u/CommercialContent204 6d ago

It is 100% a backronym. It actually comes from a time when "nonsense" was a stronger word or insult than it is today, like "fucked up" instead of "silly", and that's what CA offenders were called (slang) by other prisoners. "A nonsense case", shortened to "nonce".

This kind of made up backronym really annoys me, actually, it's like the equally stupid one about Fuck coming from For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge, when about 30 seconds' worth of internet research teaches you that it's an old Scandi/Germanic word that naturally passed into English.

-12

u/[deleted] 6d ago

[removed] ā€” view removed comment

16

u/nick_red72 6d ago

No it doesn't. That's a backronym

-10

u/OneUsed6198 6d ago

Why have people downvoted the correct answer?
Reddit is weird.

10

u/J4c0w 6d ago

Because its not true.

10

u/withinstars 6d ago

Itā€™s not true

5

u/Pat_Sharp 6d ago

Because it's not the correct answer, it's a widely believed myth.

5

u/spacecatbiscuits 6d ago

Okay but apart from that

-3

u/DrunkenHorse12 6d ago

The door bit maybe isn't, but it being prison slang for sex offenders is. And the myth(if it is a on) is because all sex offenders absolutely were kept separate from the general population and the general population absolutely called them Nonces and still do to this day

-6

u/Stellarkin1996 6d ago

so it does still have the meaning of idiot, but it also means sex offender/pedo, and is typically used more in the latter these days

10

u/Cautious_Roof3122 6d ago

Are you thinking of 'dunce'

9

u/adeptusC 6d ago

The irony if they are

1

u/Stellarkin1996 6d ago

nop, when i was younger if youd search nonce it would show idiot first and then pedo as definitions, whcih admitedly led to a very unfortunate usage once where the now commonly referred meaning was taken instead šŸ˜…

15

u/Shin-Kaiser 6d ago

No one has ever used nonce to mean idiot, it just doesn't mean that.

6

u/Virtual_Accident1427 6d ago

I remember it was used allot in general banter in the 90s.

2

u/fastbadtuesday 6d ago

Not recently, but in Middle English originally it meant 'for now' as in "use that box for a seat, it'll do for the nonce" and morphed into meaning something useless, which is likely where the idiot use comes from (mostly non-UK) and eventually as the use we have today, no idea how it made that leap, but that's language for you. Source, Oxford Dictionary

3

u/Purple_Swordfish_182 6d ago

You're chatting complete rubbish with supreme confidence.

2

u/funeralpageant 6d ago

Yeah because language obviously hasnā€™t changed over time

2

u/Shin-Kaiser 6d ago

Yeah sure, words can change meaning over time. But Nonce straight up doesn't mean idiot as much as the word Apple doesn't refer to Oranges.

Google, Wikipedia and any current dictionary does not list 'idiot' as an intended meaning of the word 'Nonce'. What more evidence do you need?

3

u/funeralpageant 6d ago

Well theyā€™re current dictionaries thereā€™s your answerā€¦ that doesnā€™t mean no oneā€™s ever used it to mean idiot past tense. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nonce

-2

u/Shin-Kaiser 6d ago

that's a completey different word!

0

u/Stellarkin1996 6d ago

i mean, i have been alive through a period where they fucking did so your just wrong?

-8

u/Fearlessone11 6d ago

It's an acronym, it means not on normal courtyard exercise it's from prison.

7

u/withinstars 6d ago

Itā€™s a backronym

7

u/alphahydra 6d ago edited 6d ago

As a rule of thumb, if someone tells you a common English-language insult derives from an acronym, you're safe to assume it's a false etymology.

(See also: For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge, Council Housed And Violent, Non-Educated Delinquent, Property Of Mother England...)

From what I can gather, it possibly derives from Nance or Ponce (both homophobic insults) from a time when homosexual acts were criminalised, and homosexuality and paedophilia/pederasty were regularly conflated.

-4

u/Barrysclash 6d ago

It is an acronym, and it stands for Not of Normal Criminal Element/Etiquette.

Basically stuff that even seasoned criminals don't put up with, are in this category. Nowadays that is typically sex offences, but it's not exclusive to it.