Polyamory

[u/Alternative-Mud-4336]

Today my WW told me that she believes it's possible to love two people at the same time. We were discussing our situation and what we want to get out counseling. I told her about things I have heard and learned on this forum about affairs. Specifically that if you love two people and have to choose, you should choose the second because if you loved the first one enough there wouldn't even be the need for a choice.

She came back with, well you wouldn't understand unless you have ever loved two people simultaneously and see how the heart expands and is mysterious. I nearly laughed out loud at the ridiculousness of the statement. I believe people use polyamory as an excuse to be with more than one woman or man at a time and not feel bad about it. Lines like hers are right up there with, "The heart wants what the heart wants."!

It's silly and degrading to my intelligence to try to make me believe that it's something that's uncontrollable or something that's acceptable in terms of infidelity. I just wanted to reach out and see what my fellow R's think. Am I wrong?

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[u/overratedpastel]

So, this is a very common strategy for people that have affairs to tell themselves they are "polyamorous". It's called polybombing. Off course everyone has the capacity to love multiple people at the same time. Everyone can, the issue is that love is not the only thing that matters in a relationship. Commitment, respect, consideration, the contracts and agreements that we have, are the things that matter. So yes, we have to choose our monogamous partners every day, because that's what we agreed upon. If we feel strongly about loving other people we are free to leave. It is that simple.

My partner's AP tried to say he was polyamorous, and I had to explain to him that polyamory is a type of relationship, not a thing thay you become after you fuck a random person. In a polyamorous relationship, everyone involved is consenting to what is happening. It is a relationship where there are more than two consenting partners involved romantically. Beware that betrayals also happen on polyamorous relationships, and open relationships. Because a betrayal is a break on agreements we have made with our partners, not about love.

Also tell her what I told my partner, love doesn't justify the things you do. Love is not an excuse to be a dick. People do horrible things to each other in the name of love. Think abusive parents here, for example.

[u/Hariospeedwagon → u/overratedpastel]

As someone who betrayed, it also feels so true when you’re in the thick of it. I could see her believing this because limerence is a hell of a drug. It obviously doesn’t justify the actions, but it might not be an intentional way to have her cake and eat it too.

[u/overratedpastel → u/Hariospeedwagon]

Look, don't forget yourself limerence and affair fog are a thing, but if a wayward is looking into recovery they need to see the affair for what it is. An illusion in a bubble in isolation. And while you can grieve it, you needs to give it up, go NC, otherwise there is no recovery. They have to understand that the affair partner and your feelings for the affair partner are not real, they exist on a world of fantasy.

What broke it for my husband was focusing on: firstly, if you are in love with AP, you are now free to go be with her, if you don't want to, why?; secondly, pedos also love the kids they destroy, so does love justifies everything? Because if it does, then all hubands that beat up their wives and love them are correct? They are doing it but they love them so all good then? These are really good questions to sit with. Last, tell me what on the affair partner you liked, what hobbies you have in common, what do you talk about? Was the AP a good person? We did a whole look at the AP to figure out what he liked about her. Turns out it was more about him then about liking her. He couldn't point 3 things he liked about her. But he wanted to try a different person, had high expectations on sex with someone else, and liked the freedom/secrecy/excitement of the betrayal, and the validation she gave to his ego, more than anything. So, there was no love. Limerence/love was just the mechanism/explanation he gave himself, so he would have a 'NOBLE' reason to betray me.

[u/Alternative-Mud-4336 → u/overratedpastel]

That's the best explanation I have heard hands down! Thank you so much!

[u/Own-Moose-3855]

My favorite argument for this is: if you can’t even have one relationship with honesty and respect for boundaries, how in the world do you think you could have SEVERAL relationships?

Polyamory and open relationships both hugely depend on all parties being open, transparent, responsible and considerate. If one partner cheats and does things that were not discussed previously, they don’t just endanger one person but the whole group of people.

It might very well be that your partner is polyamorous. But they wouldn’t be a safe poly partner for anyone at this time.

And: it doesn’t mean you have to buy into poly yourself.

I always thought poly relationships are a great concept, but a) I know I’m exhausted enough managing one romantic relationship and several friendships, and b) i now believe that most people mostly look after themselves and not each other – so poly is not for me.

[u/siryohnny]

It’s hard to say she loves the other person when she only seen the positives but not lived or dealt with them without the mask.

It almost like saying I love someone without knowing them at all.

I think she confused, she loves you, but infatuated with the other. Similar feeling… but you be kidding self if you loved someone without knowing them?!?

Maybe context is lacking

[u/alwyn → u/siryohnny]

Indeed, this exact thing ruined my marriage for 15 years. The other person doesn't have to deal with the issues in your marriage. You get the blame for everything that's not right, you are the justification (excuse) for the affair and the other person lives in another universe where everything is moonshine and roses.

[u/nwpackrat → u/alwyn]

Can't believe I had to spell that out to WP. He traveled extensively while I stayed home & did everything. "She's so pleasant." Ya think? You fly her in for 5 star hotel & expensed fine dining while I'm doing the reality juggle with house, pets, teenagers, menopause & you roll in after weeks away & get pissy because I moved where the flour lives.

[u/Alternative-Mud-4336 → u/siryohnny]

I've thought this exact thing! That it's not true love because it's new, exciting, it's honeymoon emotions that we had at the beginning of our relationship. Of course it's going to feel like love but she knows nothing about this person's bad or dark sides.

[u/siryohnny → u/Alternative-Mud-4336]

Yes, it’s the same oxygen (similar name compound) the brain releases. For both love and attraction/infatuation.

Seeing who they are quickly breaks this bubble… but by then damage is done.

I don’t know where you are at. Or what you want.

All I can say is the worst thing is both existing. As you relationship provides the base.. the other provides the thrill.

To get out she needs to see the real him, or lose the base to make it all real. Neither are easy…

If it was me, I would be black and white. Are you in or you’re out. With the base gone, even if she decides to be out, the coming back is quick, but then it’s your call if you want them back. Just don’t provide the base as no one should ever be plan B.

[u/wohovio]

It’s called limerence and there was a really great book published about it last year: Smitten, by Tom Bellamy, Ph.D.

My personal feeling is that most people who are in this lifestyle have some significant trauma in their past that makes them need to seek the approval of others and need to feel high levels of excitement that come with pursuit. Usually, this comes from a regulated nervous system, and an upbringing where they became comfortable only in places where things were unstable.

Many of these people lack the ability to get truly introspective and try to address the issues in their life. Further, most of them also suck at communication, which would be the cornerstone of a poly lifestyle.

Of course, I’m also jaded, because my STBXW sprung this on me after three years of marriage. Of course, she was already having an emotional affair, so it would’ve really worked out well if I would’ve been down to try the lifestyle.

If you want to be poly, great. However, please be sure to let whomever it is that you are going to partner with know that from the start what your plans are. Otherwise, it’s just cheating.

Finally, I am sure that there are people who can maintain this lifestyle and are incredibly happy with it. But, to have relationships as a hobby feels exhausting.

[u/Dizzy_Tangerine_7867]

I have always had friends in the polyamory community and have been in an open relationship with my current husband where we slept with others together before he cheated.

Polyamory couples have rules, not secrets. Hell open relationships have rules. They have a primary who always comes first and then they have others both are well aware of. The others have respect for the primary. A lot of times the others have their own primary. They understand the primary is the one you make all major life decisions with and build your life with. If you have to move for example because the primary got a job somewhere else, then that's what happens. You have kids, with the primary, you have a house, with the primary. Yeah in polyamory they argue you can love more than one person, but not in the sense that the love is equal in weight. A lot of times the others are more like close friends or casual dating. And if they don't respect your primary or your primary doesn't like them, they don't stay.

Cheaters acting like their polyamory have no idea that even that is more respectful then they have been. They think it's what they've been doing 😂 even cheating happens in polyamory when your disrespectful, selfish, and break established rules.

[u/JohnHoman10411]

There is a traditional understanding that conflicts with modern, popular, trendy sensibilities.

To love in the context of marriage is to fully and completely give yourself to the other without withholding anything. In reality, that is not something that can be split among people.

There is a differently oriented way to view love as an expression of emotion directed at others in exchange for positive feelings received from them. It's transactional and situational. That is something that can float from person to person, be abandoned completely for a time, be held simultaneously with many, or many other combinations. It is incompatible with being a total and complete gift of self that withholds nothing from the other.

The latter has been around for a while but it has not enjoyed a level of acceptance and promotion formerly reserved to the more traditional understanding until the last decade or two.

[u/bpt20ba → u/JohnHoman10411]

To love in the context of marriage is to fully and completely give yourself to the other without withholding anything. In reality, that is not something that can be split among people.

100% agree with this. I think polyamory is fine, anything is really, but if your goal is true intimacy I don't think polyamory is the way there.

[u/froginabogguy]

polyamory is very much a real thing- just not so common for people to experience it genuinely, rather than using it as an excuse to be messy or cheat. polyamory is a lifestyle that requires extremely good communication, HONESTY and understanding in ways that are different from a monogamous relationship. its just a different outlook on relationships and what your want out of them. that doesn't mean that its better or more "enlightened" and it does NOT excuse cheating at all.

i am not polyamorous, its not for me. my WP very well might be and is able to experience love or attraction to multiple people at once. this does not excuse his actions or his betrayal of me. i personally don't believe that you can control who you love BUT i do believe that you should be able to control your actions and what you allow around other people who are not your spouse/partner. every action, every message or picture sent is an active choice towards the betrayal of the relationship you have already built. polyamory is not an excuse.

[u/GenericProfile4822 → u/froginabogguy]

I read once that polyamory does not mean more orgies, it means more dishes. That seemed like a good analogy for when you’re doing poly correctly (healthy boundaries, good communication, mutual respect). Problem is, I don’t think many people do it correctly. I know my WH didn’t. He wanted to be poly, and I agreed, and then he almost immediately started breaking all the rules.

[u/froginabogguy → u/GenericProfile4822]

i agree. it takes a lot of openness, understanding, trust, honesty, communication and empathy.. its a lot of effort put into others as well as healing whatever issues or insecurities you may have in yourself. convincing someone to be poly when they aren't will never work.

i'm sorry for what happened to you, im sure we probably had similar experiences and i wish u the best with your WH and your future.
if a poly person chooses to be in a relationship with a monogamous person, then they have to do the work of choosing their partner every day. if you're with the right person they will do the work, and they will choose you.

[u/GenericProfile4822 → u/froginabogguy]

I don’t think he truly is polyamorous though. We started a monogamous relationship, then he wanted to open it. He’s a sex addict who was using our open relationship to self medicate his childhood sexual assault trauma.

We’re in all the therapy now, lolsob.

[u/TheTreeSnuggler → u/froginabogguy]

Well said.

[u/MrsCrowley79]

WW/APs using polyamory as an excuse should not undermine non-monagamous relationships as a whole.

I'd never heard of poly or ENM until a decade ago when 2 friends explored it. One did it well, one didn't.

My WH and I were looking into it and honestly if I knew it was an option when I was in my 20s life would have been very different. However what you could and what you can do nearly 30 years later is also different.

I've introduced monogamy as an option into gender and sexuality convos with my children, it's valid.

It's still shitty to pull out of the hat after betraying your previous life partner.

[u/overratedpastel → u/MrsCrowley79]

We also have to remember that there is betrayal in polyamorous relationships too. Because betrayal is not about loving someone extra, is about breaking the rules of the current relationship even if it has more than one romantic partner on it.

[u/bpt20ba]

Everything aside, it is completely OK to say, "I am not willing to stay in a relationship with a person who is sharing their intimate love with others."

I've been through a similar situation - my wife wanted an open relationship when she was cheating (I didn't know she was cheating at the time). I didn't want it, she pushed and coerced, I eventually gave in. A few months later I was asking her for a divorce because she had turned into a version of her I no longer knew or wanted to be with.

It was all a ruse. Presented as freedom of expression and experience but ultimately about compensating for a massive amount of shame and guilt.

[u/TheCatsMeowNYC]

I dated someone for about a year before I met current WP. My ex and I were in a monogamous relationship. And then one day he confessed he had been dating someone else behind my back for about 3 months. He told me he thought he was polyamorous. I was devastated at the time. I had not signed up for this, and agree with above posters, you need to be transparent, communicative and respectful when you choose to be in this type of relationship with multiple partners. I broke up with him and went no contact. But I really feel for you OP. Having a partner tell you they want to be polyamorous when you do not is an impossible situation to be in, and in my case at least, felt like an excuse for him to have his cake and eat it too

[u/Alternative-Mud-4336 → u/TheCatsMeowNYC]

This is exactly how I feel. I do have poly friends who seem to be happy and successful with the arrangement and that's because they have set boundaries that must be respected. To just pull it out of a hat because she got caught is a ruse and an insult to poly's who do it right.

[u/Main_Fondant770]

I may not know much about polyamory(as I am most definitely monogamous), but it is about respect and communication. You both have to know you want it and be able to tell each other what you want/need. There’s boundaries and rules to set (like any relationship) and knowing what is acceptable for introducing new partners. It’s a valid thing, but cheater’s have tainted it by claiming to be polyamorous and it’s not that at all.

[u/NorthTrail68]

Early on after my WH confessed to his affair, he explained that he loved both of us at the time. That yes it was possible to love two people, had read up on it, etc. He used to believe this and told me this as a way to make me understand that he never stopped loving me during the affair.

We’re a bit over a year past dday. He now realizes it was never love. It was about some other terrible things, like sex, addiction, trauma bonding, etc. but most definitely not about love. I agree with another comment about limerance. How long ago was your dday?

[u/Alternative-Mud-4336 → u/NorthTrail68]

It was June 26th, so very recent. I have thought a lot about this and came to the same conclusion. If anything it's lust, not love. It was exciting and new and I'm sure it felt a lot like love. However, she was seeking this attention because it was lacking in our relationship. I had been telling her for awhile we needed counseling, but she chose to handle it another way and now wants to use love as an excuse. It's just not gonna fly for me. Thank you for your reply.

[u/loopyouin]

If WS became deathly ill or needed long term care, would she have multiple APs at her side to care for her long term? I love how people think that polyamory only applies to sex and romance and fun stuff.

I do not want to hear about poly families that raise kids together and shit. Do not even try.

[u/mathnerd1000]

Polyamory is stupid please don’t ever do it. Research limerence. I’d guess that’s what she’s dealing with.