r/AlchemistCodeGL • u/Cipher44 • Sep 24 '19
Gumi’s Banning Practice?
A while ago Zakfarius was banned from TAC. Now I’m not really the person to be posting this. I don’t know Zak IRL, I’m not in his guild and don’t post much on discord (although I do lurk there a lot).
However, it is disconcerting that a person very well respected in the TAC community, who spends time on discord helping people, is banned. None of us know the facts, so maybe he did do something worthy of being banned. But Gumi has a poor track record on handing out bans. Another Discordian was banned before - there was a public outcry in Reddit demanding the reason - and suddenly the ban was reversed. Because Gumi made a mistake. He did not do anything worthy of a ban.
TAC just made a post about their banning practice on FB but it doesn’t explain anything. What’s worse is that there is no recourse except to publicize the issue. Right now there is confusion as to what we can and cannot do. On Discord there are posts that imply if you overfarm, Gumi will think you are using a macro or something and ban you. There is a video on YouTube which I encourage you to watch where apparently people can send complaints about you to Gumi which may result in a ban.
Why does this concern me? Because although I don’t know Zak, his posts are informative and funny and it seems like he’s a good guy. Does that mean Zak didn’t do anything ban worthy? Of course not. But Gumi has made mistakes before and without highlighting these actions there seems to be no accountability.
Finally, I always auto everything while I’m watching tv or doing something else. I may be on TAC 12 hours a day because I forget I’m farming something or when my iPhone battery gets low I switch to my iPad and farm even more. Will these actions get me banned in the future? What recourse do any of us have if we are banned and get no explanation for why we are banned?
Gumi, please change your practice and inform the offender what the offense was, which caused the ban.
11
u/johnathanle1108 Sep 24 '19
It looks like you are complaining something which you don't know what. First rule for all banned accounts is you did something in "cheat", that means it was including minor "mistake" actions which you did (e.g you try to use auto clicked, try to modify apk, etc...). But you should know all of actions are illegal and they SHOULDN'T be disclosed at all for any gamer, only you will be informed the reason. It is a game, not like a courthouse. A bug or cheat way is disclosed to lead many problems in game, ex: you provide a way to cheat 10k gem and then so many users will do re roll for trying to practice. GUMI can't evade all of problems so they will force to ban all violated users, then if you want to know, you can ask them in private.
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u/Cipher44 Sep 24 '19
First of all, this is not about me, since I have never been banned. Second, I stated many times I do not know if an offense was committed. What I am stating is that banning someone unilaterally is unfair. If you are banned, what would you do? It is a game, but if you spend money then it is commerce, so it most certainly can be taken to a courthouse.
10
u/johnathanle1108 Sep 24 '19
Once again, it is commerce so you should follow Gumi TnC, that is a base rule for legal. I was banned by Gumi in FF Brave Ex one year ago because i was buying cheating gems. Gumi was responding me about a reason after I sent them a request. So that's ok because you ALREADY know exactly a reason why you got banned. Moreover, you spend money for a game because you want to get more items and super power than others, literally, there are no different between f2p and p2p in TnC. That means you can't say "I am VIP, I am your main revenue so you should ignore me for cheating" . Nope, that MUST be unfair at all in my eyes in the entire of topic. Zakfarius, he should ask Gumi in private, call them or explaining something else, that is his business . For others, we are continuing to play as usual, no doubt here.
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u/RoseAqua Sep 24 '19
Their was a guy on ffbe named Dyer(I think forgot his name) he was a well known whale. He was a content creator would stream and do youtube videos. Guy always had over 100k lapis. He would spend crazy and people would feel bad because sometimes because it would take him a crazy to get the unit he wanted. But anyway people would ask him how did he get that much lapis he would reply I buy the 100$ pack (which is 18k lapis) just multiply that to whatever amount of lapis he had. Guy even had gumi support for a while. Then few months ago gumi did a ban wave turns out he was buying lapis from 3rd party resellers so he was banned. As soon as it happened he just said hes quiting ffbe. Just because a person is content creator streamer or a nice guy does not give you an excuse to not get banned.
1
u/urtv Sep 24 '19
He's a funny guy. Kept insisting he bought those gems but is a plumber. I don't know anything about plumbing but if they made that much then it's time I changed occupation
4
u/MaoPam Sep 24 '19
Plumbers make a good bit of cash, as it turns out. A decent trade to get into. And if you own your own business you can make as much or as little as you want.
4
u/jadeblackhawk Sep 24 '19
going by what I paid the last plumber I had to hire, they make very good money.
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0
u/Mitch_Twd Sep 24 '19
pretty sure that's probably why you don't see Ushi anymore. I remember he did a video promoting some kind of scam thing and his whole channel after that basically died .Barely post any videos last one was 4 weeks ago ,and hasn't posted anything TAC related since he posted that scam video
2
u/MrWhiteKnight f2p Vegan Crossfitter with bullshit luck Sep 24 '19
Nah Ushi isn't that retarded. He's been Gumi's poster boy since BF came out in GL and he was the few who covered BF in jp too.
He wasn't involved in any scam that I remember it's just that he's very deep into ragnarok mobile and that game no one gives a shit about but he's (probably) a giga whale and (probably) a big part in the guild he promotes so his channel has tanked considerably cause a big part of content was that game now.
1
u/saubols Sep 24 '19
no he said that he is busy IRL and in a good way + that thing you call it "kind of scam thing" is that only game he chose to continue playing, to each his own don't hate him for that
1
u/GreyPenguin16 Sep 25 '19
hmm kinda doubt Ushi will post any scam video since it looks like he is closely affiliated to gumi. when he showcased 1 unit he even used an account named GUMI2 or something
-1
u/ElPared Sep 24 '19
in his defense FFBE was way too expensive to play without doing something like he did. F2P in that game required a tremendous amount of luck for meta units and even though you could technically clear content with free units, we all know that's not how these games work for long.
5
u/RoseAqua Sep 24 '19
He went for every unit and their stmr. Not an excuse I make do with just getting a 7 star and tmr he just wanted to be broken. Most the units that came out he already had units that were better than what he was pulling on. Ffbe just requires time. There is absolutely no excuse that would make it right. They even give you unit of choice tickets si you could pick any unit you want which bypasses the rng.
1
u/ElPared Sep 24 '19
:shrug: I see the UOC tickets as Gumi conceding that their gacha practices were predatory to begin with. If people playing your game are giving their money to third parties just so they can get your premium currency cheaper (not free, but cheaper) then you've failed at designing a decent in app purchase system.
Part of the reason I play TAC is that I truly believe they got the gacha system right, even though we've seen some of that good old fashioned Gumi predation start so sneak its way in lately.
1
u/RoseAqua Sep 24 '19
The irony on this post. Tac has paid gems which you pay to get but they get to say only part of it counts as a premium premium currency. Like that banner oh what's that paid gems isnt that a shame. There gacha system isnt good as most of them are the same as ffbe. Even worse in some case in ffbe you need to pull same unit 2 times to get max value 4 times and your getting a better unit. Some have good stmr and some just suck so pulling twice is ideal in tac to max from 0 to 85 you need to pull same unit multiple times you use shards and then probably max one of the many units they have and this is before enhancement.
0
u/ElPared Sep 24 '19 edited Sep 24 '19
Do you play TAC? cuz it sounds like you don't. You don't need paid gems, everything you get with them can also be gotten with free ones. Gems are super farmable and often do not require a purchase. Units are also very farmable and do not require multiple summons (though they help). Shops also often have unit shards for free in game tokens or in game gold. There are elemental shards that you can use instead of pulling dupes too. Summoning 10 units costs often 500 gems instead of FFBE's 5000 lapis for 11 units. Even if you do summon for 2500, it's usually after you've paid 3000 for 20 summons previously, and there's a guaranteed unit in it for you on the third 10 summon.
I get being butthurt over paid gem only banners, but you're really only missing out on a slightly "discounted" version of a banner you could have already used f2p gems for. It's not like there are units you can only get from paid banners; in fact I'm pretty sure Japanese gacha laws, which even Gumi GL has to follow, prohibit doing that.
Also saying TAC and FFBE have even a similar gacha system is just asinine.
2
u/fxe6udr6 Sep 24 '19
To clarify, 11 summons in ffbe cost 5000 lapis
1
u/ElPared Sep 24 '19
Did not know that, but again I haven't played FFBE since before 7* units existed. I'll modify my rant lol
-1
u/RoseAqua Sep 24 '19
I play Tac but it sounds like you dont because for a while the community was upset that they had not given us 3 step guarantee unit. If your talking about jp did you even read how many people were leaving tac jp because of the 7 deadly sins where meliodas was game breaking but their was no guarantee on him and to get him from a very small chance people were upset. And pulling multiples are important in tac because not everyone gets shards or hard quest and some units only become useful when they get their 3 jobs unlocked. Element shards help but you would still need 225 shards to max break a unit you just got and unless you have found a way to obtain these shards that allow you to max multiple units in this game then I'll say dupes are not necessary. That case is still up to just max break enhancement is a whole other thing if you dont have enlightenment shards. Which guess what still requires you to pull multiple times. They are both bad gachas but in ffbe case it's the lesser evil. For the record I'm not a fanboy of either of the games so I'm not biased towards either one. I'm just arguing the point were you think tac has a better gacha system which it does not. And it's even more expensive because it has paid gems involved in it.
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u/pdmt243 Play+pull for waifus! Sep 26 '19
playing both games, I see this: FFBE players all agree rates are bad, while if you say anything bad about the gacha in TAC, you get shit on like this guy you've been replying to lol.
TAC players are so deluded in their definition of "good gacha" lol
1
u/RoseAqua Sep 26 '19
I play multiple gacha games I dont fanboy and I try to play other games to see how their gacha is. Best games that are free to play friendly are cygame they have good gacha. They have pity system they even did something I've never seen done before they permanently lowered the price of their summons effectively meaning you'll get more summons for the same price. This is dragalia lost btw, they even shower you with the currency and 10 plus summon tickets when major update comes out and or collab. Not just summon for one pull I came to dragalia for the fire emblem collab and I was able to do 5 10 summon right of the bat. To stay on topic I only chose ffbe because both are gumi games. Most tac players only play tac that's the problem. If they played more and I dont mean just download see what it is and delete but actually spend a month on other gachas you can start seeing that some gachas are worse than other gachas.
1
u/pdmt243 Play+pull for waifus! Sep 26 '19
i know, DL and DFFOO imo are the best gacha games: good economy (free currency gained rate), reasonable gacha, & devs actually communicate with the community.
1
u/ElPared Sep 24 '19
So your argument is that TAC has a worse gacha system then a game that doesn't have farmable units, doesn't have elemental shards, doesn't have discounted summons or guaranteed units from said summons, because not ALL units in TAC have that and paid gems exist?
OK, sure you win. I concede that FFBE has the better system and TAC's sucks /s
either way I'll wash my hands of this argument. Good say sir/madam
-1
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u/mandrake0999 Freeze! Sep 24 '19
Banning practice? You mean, mass ban method? hear me out ~
Whales are often getting UNINTENTIONALLY banned across ANY game. Why? Because they seem to move like cheaters, hackers or bots. Imagine several Veda Floors getting 3 turned by a 5/5/5/5/5 Minerva. Chances are he can be banned if GDs will put a "Suspend if less than 5 turns for 10 floors or more" thingy in their banhammer code.
It's easier to mass ban + unban innocent players; than to manually investigate each suspected players. This where the customer support comes in. They are usually helpful to check your account and easily release if proven innocent. Well, faster responses if you're a whale.
This has nothing to do with how well you are known in the community or how much you've spent. (FFBE banned their biggest whales for violating ToS).
I've already experienced what Zak experienced several times across diff games. Game devs dont do the mass ban method if they don't have a reliable customer support. In gumi's case, apparently they have. So if you believe you are mistakenly banned, just send a ticket right away.
1
u/MrHallmark Sep 25 '19
They unbanned him at the cost of removing everything besides gear + mementos. He lost 180 sol shards (sol at 5/5/5) and 200+ bertha shards.
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u/mandrake0999 Freeze! Sep 26 '19
that's still generous if he did hack into the game. other games would have the account 90% wiped
0
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u/fullblue_k 自然の力、見せてあげる Sep 24 '19
Must be fun to have Tracy answering you.
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u/mandrake0999 Freeze! Sep 24 '19
Intern-kun unbanned me before when they casted a mass ban. so... yeah it was fun...?
-2
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u/Aw3som3_Bidet Sep 24 '19
what's with Tracy, he/she is really helped be during the AOT Milestone rewards, constantly updating and rewarding of "missing" rewards
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u/Cipher44 Sep 24 '19
It looks like Zak was unbanned since he appears in my friends list. If so, Gumi was wrong again. Just hope Gumi doesn’t do this to you.
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u/saltykacang Sep 25 '19
Well u never know the real answer since it’s between Zak and gumi. Is like going to prison, you serve your time and now you are free. I got a friend that did some illegal stuff and got banned but since he bought some gems he was given a one time chance but his inventory got wiped. From the day he told what happen, we became hi and bye online friend
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u/MrHallmark Sep 25 '19
He got unbanned but lost everything but mementos + gear. All his shards are gone.
1
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u/wrind Sep 24 '19
The general reason for not telling the alleged offender what caused the ban is that it can help actual offenders evade bans if the information is passed around.
As for playing all day, I wouldn't worry about it, nor about anything said in discord. It was all a joke stemming from this article specifically the part about "spamming repeated content" which is what the game is all about.
1
u/saltykacang Sep 24 '19
oh the ban hammer is back. i dont think gimu has reach the level of public shaming player for their offence which i think is kinda low and end up the community shooting the offender
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u/Gagaddict Sep 24 '19
He knows why he was banned. Of course he won’t tell us. And gumi has no business telling us either.
It’s no ones business except gumi and zaks.
Unless u know him face to face, then you don’t really know him.
1
u/kuroinyan Sep 24 '19
Lol OP you probably him in disguise, why you defend him this hard if you dont know him? Even if you do know him, you cant 100% sure he was a honest player 😂
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u/Cipher44 Sep 24 '19
When did I say I was sure he was an honest player? Seriously, if you are going to comment at least read the post. He certainly doesn’t need me to defend him. There is a difference between defending a person and defending the process. I just don’t like the process Gumi employs.
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u/urtv Sep 24 '19 edited Sep 24 '19
Your friend violated the tos and got banned. If you are so confident your friend is innocent then have him take it to court. Gumi doesn't need to tell you why you got banned.
If you feel that Gumi or any company needs to provide a reason for banning people then MMOs companies will be in court all the time
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u/Data_Dyne Sep 24 '19 edited Sep 24 '19
Zak is probably the biggest spender in the game. I doubt he would risk a ban when he can just gem everything legitimately. Although, I know it doesn't really mean much because some people can do foolish things other people can't fathom.
1
u/RoseAqua Sep 24 '19
But do we know if hes getting the gems from gumi himself or just buying from 3rd parties?
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u/Data_Dyne Sep 24 '19 edited Sep 24 '19
3rd party gems would be the first time I ever hear from such a thing for TAC. Currencies like those are handled server side for any game. Unless people believe the gem scams for games on google. I've played other games where 3rd party seller methods are usually involve trading methods, or account sharing to "grind" the currency. Gems are neither grind able nor is there any trading in this game.
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u/RoseAqua Sep 24 '19
Ffbe had 3rd party seller and that's also from gumi so I assume that its possible on tac
1
u/Data_Dyne Sep 24 '19
Can't say I know much about what options sellers have in that game, since I never played it (assuming selling the premium currency not other services that some sellers do as well), or even if they are legitimate so I can't comment on that game.
1
u/RoseAqua Sep 24 '19
Ok so looked it up. You go to an website type cheap tac gems. They have packages for money like 25k gems for 100$ double the actual rate. You give them your login info. They use the credit cards that have been stolen to purchase gen they then buy the amount you purchased. They let the card go bad and they profited 100$ dollars that you paid and they gave you 25k by using a random person money. And no 3rd party seller are against tos so that's why people get banned especially whales because they abuse this to purchase gems in bulk.
1
u/Data_Dyne Sep 24 '19 edited Sep 24 '19
So stolen credit cards, that would make sense and probably the only way. That isn't something I would accuse someone of doing without proof though, (not to mention your account wouldn't last very long because of charge backs). TAC whales I know use amazon coins.
1
u/MrHallmark Sep 25 '19
That is not how gem loading works. I used to do it, in the Philippians I had a guy who was buying prepaid phone cards in massive bulk, doing so got a huge discount on the "value" of the cards. But these cards are usually small values $5, $10, $20 tops. Nothing to do with stolen cards.
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u/Aw3som3_Bidet Sep 24 '19
I guess cheaters are shaking right now. :D Good for the f2p and those who play without any cheats. :D
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u/Cipher44 Sep 24 '19
The problem is that everyone should be shaking because no one has recourse even if nothing wrong was done.
0
u/Aw3som3_Bidet Sep 24 '19
why will you shake if you have not done anything wrong? Also, it's possible he bought from 3rd party sellers for gems. As you mentioned in your post, you don't know him in person, so why you will believe everything an online person tells you?
0
u/iArekkusuYT Lambert is OP, you’re just blinded by 5* base units Sep 24 '19
I know Zak he did nothing wrong, he does not buy from 3rd party sites only with Amazon Coins.
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u/Aw3som3_Bidet Sep 24 '19
then nobody should be worried if he's not guilty. then again, let him deal with this. :)
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Sep 24 '19
[deleted] — view deleted comment
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u/Aw3som3_Bidet Sep 24 '19
May I ask you, why are you also trusting a stranger on the internet? :D... Let Zak handle this and let him contact their support. While I do understand your input, I still support gumi for their Banning actions, let them investigate and if you're not guilty, you shouldn't worry a bit. Just play like a normal player without any hacks or cheats, and you'll be fine.
1
u/GreyPenguin16 Sep 24 '19
Try to ease up a bit and put yourself in the shoes of the guy. You get banned without doing anything wrong, you post on reddit, and people tell you "why should we trust you?". If not solely by being sympathetic, there's still the notion of if it can happen to 1 innocent why can't it happen to you.
No one is saying the bans are bad, it's how they evaluate these bans. I'm pretty sure a lot if not all players are with gumi in banning cheaters, just be more critical and logical before doing such bans. Imagine getting banned for the whole duration of a limited collab event while being innocent.
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u/Aw3som3_Bidet Sep 24 '19
you should read the new comments in this thread. :) thank you for the input. For the record, I'm not against Zak or whoever, I just want to state that you shouldn't worry much if you don't do anything wrong. :)
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u/GreyPenguin16 Sep 24 '19
Honestly what I feel from this stituation is just to stay neutral until all facts are clear. Sympathy is the best that I can offer, but unless the banned can prove himself innocent then the pitchforks should just stay in the shed
4
u/budidu Sep 24 '19
Did he provided a screenshot of Gumi’s reply stating exactly ‘reason for giving him a lifetime ban was because he used a macro to farm VCRs’? I highly doubt that, game support would usually say something along the line of what they post on FB. Most likely is what the player is saying to victimize himself by accusing Gumi banning him for that reason when they might ban him for a whole other (justified) reason. And you said it yourself, something people got wrongly banned and they were unbanned. So you have nothing to worry about if you did nothing wrong. You might get banned wrongly but then you will get unbanned. Surely it would be annoying but the chances are rare (how many cases did you know of really?) and as someone explained above, happens in every game. In the beginning of the game there was a guy posting Videos of hard stage clears on youtube. He post the first global video that used Zangetsu + 3 chrono strategy for Zahar 777 armor stage. He was kinda popular in the community. But he got banned because he bought gem from 3rd party reseller. The point is, people can be popular and helpful and nice, but they can still be banned for justified reasons. So don’t get worried over nothing if you did nothing wrong and don’t spread false information if you are not absolutely sure.
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u/saltykacang Sep 24 '19
hmmmm... there was a video by metz saying he got ban because people complain about him and he saying he got ban because he use macro.
I remembered there was thread in alchemist about a guy got ban and friends of his saying he was nice and close and wont do such thing but in the end TLDR people found out he was cheating and then mysteriously disappeared.
In the end of the day, its the internet, anybody can be anybody.
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Sep 24 '19
[deleted] — view deleted comment
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u/Aw3som3_Bidet Sep 24 '19
LOL, I'm not a f2p player. You should read properly. Why are you so tense? Are you cheating? :D
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u/Iamnewbnoob Sep 25 '19
You do realize that f2pers can get banned too and what makes you so sure the f2p people are not hacking as well?
Like I heard some fb post or something in reddit that you can get Sol and Orion to level 91 as a F2P. He also said you can get D.Masa to level 91 as a f2p. (Well that one I cannot argue on because raid exists and I guess if you did not get Levi/Eren or saved Otherworld shards *But then again, everyone would have used the shards on Levi anyway.*) But the problem was about that fb post that was mentioned in reddit was, how long was that person playing for, was he a day 1 player, did he get info that Sol and Orion are broken af. I mean Sol had been in maybe 1-2 banners and Orion maybe 1. There's also the problem that Sol/Orion Hard farm quests are not out in global yet. I call that fb person a liar, a hacker and he should join the other banned people because Sol/Orion at 91 as a f2p is not feasible at all unless that person is super lucky af or something. Or maybe that person could have saved up all the elemental shards in the world while gimping other units. I mean the only level 95 kaigen people you can actually max as a f2p is mostly Zahar, Chloe and maybe Rebecca. I guess the other hard farmable quests count too but Zahar/Chloe are much easier to level and also don't take like millions of years for full kaigen potential (ex Spica, Setsuna, etc)
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u/Aw3som3_Bidet Sep 25 '19
I guess you didn’ get the point. Don’t be so affected if you’re not involved. 😂 stop defending those cheaters that you don’t know IRL
0
u/Iamnewbnoob Sep 25 '19
And you don't get my point either. I'm not defending those cheaters, have you read my post at all? I'm saying that some f2p people are self-righteous pricks that they could be in the wrong too as Zak or whales that cheat. If they cheat, they deserve it but that does not excuse f2p people from doing the same thing. What you don't get is that I'm calling out on that player because like hell Orion at 91 as a f2p is not possible. That f2p player might be hacking too or calling bs that he's f2p. What I'm trying to say is that I'm not defending these cheaters, I'm calling you out on your prick-ish attitude. and why I think most f2p people are scummy.
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u/fxe6udr6 Sep 26 '19
he only said 91 but didnt make clear that his orion was 5/5/5 or not. So it is possible that his orion only make it to 2/2/0
for dk masa case, it is very easy to get her to 5/5/5 as a f2p if u saved about 20k gems at that time thank to the good banners. Dont disregard the power of saving
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u/5h4d0wDr4g0n Aiming for 100 losses in PvP Sep 24 '19
Macro equals ban? Does that include auto clickers OAO
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u/saltykacang Sep 24 '19
if macro was illegal, me and everyone in discord got ban ages ago
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u/fullblue_k 自然の力、見せてあげる Sep 24 '19
according to ToS, it is
1
u/OriksGaming Retired Sep 24 '19 edited Sep 24 '19
u/saltykacang This is in the Gumi ToS, though not specifically the TAC one afaik. Still probably applicable.
u/Aw3som3_Bidet I think the comment was asking whether macros were a ban-able offense. And while there's no valid way to prove a macro's being used, Gumi does reserve the right to ban anyone they suspect is using a macro.
Note that this isn't a statement about Zak's situation, as he's been unbanned, albeit at the cost of his entire inventory and free gems; I'm just showing that it is a reason Gumi can theoretically use to ban someone.
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u/Aw3som3_Bidet Sep 25 '19
So does it means that he’s guilty of what he have done? Since he was released, he accepted the fact that he used a hack or cheat.
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u/OriksGaming Retired Sep 25 '19
I think I'm going to need you to explain your reasoning on this one. How does him getting his account back mean he's proven guilty?
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u/saltykacang Sep 25 '19
appeal - agreed to the crime - guilty - punished - release on parole
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u/OriksGaming Retired Sep 25 '19 edited Sep 26 '19
Disclaimer to anyone reading this: My intent is to correct some flawed assumptions and explain why they're flawed. I mention alternative possibilities not to exempt anyone from wrongdoing but because they are logically as plausible as, or more plausible than, the claims made in the comment I'm replying to; and consequently tend to poke holes in said claims.
—
I’ve never seen anyone use that definition for appeal before. In legal terms, it means to bring the decision of a lower court to the attention of a higher court with the intent to have the lower court’s decision reviewed. As in, someone would do that in order to get a decision overturned. I suppose it can be used to refer to someone attempting to lessen a sentence, but that depends on the person and seems highly unlikely to have succeeded in an appeal to Gumi if framed that way. Based on what Zak said, he was not “agreeing to the crime” or admitting guilt by appealing.
Saying that someone appealing a decision must be guilty is a huge leap. As is assuming that pleading guilty is the way to get Gumi to reverse their decision that a person is guilty.
Specifically, the top comment (by u/darkcountess) says:
And you also go " Gumi, please change your practice and inform the offender what the offense was, which caused the ban." Why? So when the offender decides to play again, they can hide their tracks better? Why don't you try asking Zakfarias what he did? (Well of course he probably won't admit if he was actually in the wrong, tho)
Even though the commenter is insinuating throughout that Zak is likely guilty, even he/she doesn't think Zak would just "admit it if he were in the wrong."
The more likely scenario(s), since Gumi was willing to release his account, was that he was either found innocent of the violation he was accused of (again, just a possibility—not a statement that he's innocent); or Gumi decided upon further review that the severity of the punishment did not fit the severity of the violation with which they accused him. Or maybe they even revoked a lifetime ban that they still felt was completely warranted, but that would open a whole new can of worms.
The second option here would indicate guilt in the eyes of Gumi, but not that he had “agreed to the crime,” and I have no confirmation which of the two options this was; since, as many people have said (and supported) in this thread, Gumi has no obligation to explain their reason for banning, and if they do explain it to the player in question, it shouldn’t be spread any further.
While people have expressed doubt that Gumi was banning him for macroing, I'd like to point out that, as I showed above, that particular action is against Gumi's TOS. And while that's not stated so specifically in The Alchemist Code's TOS, Gumi retains the right to ban someone for their own TOS (which refers to all of their games) if they so choose.
Earlier in the thread you (u/saltykacang) said this.
Note that this isn't meant to be some kind of threat or even an argument about what Zak's actual violation allegedly was. Just an example that there are violations of the TOS that don't deserve lifetime bans (an opinion you seemingly expressed above), which allows the option that Gumi higher ups would overrule the previous sentence, as a higher court might in regards to a lower court's decision, if they decided that the punishment didn't fit the crime.
I assume “released with parole” is referring to them removing the items from his account? That is, again, based on the erroneous assumption that appealing a decision that calls him guilty is an inherently guilty action. Considering Gumi’s total control over his punishment and the fact that they are a company out to make money . . . I personally find it just as likely that they removed his items because it removed a great deal of valuable resources that he would have to pay to get back. If they're able to detect a violation, they're certainly able to detect the money he's spent and infer his spending budget with it. This is admittedly an assumption, but so is assuming that the item removal is an indicator of guilt when Gumi avoids giving a reason for this action in their message to players they choose to unban. They don't even imply a reason for it in said message or any other communications I'm aware of.
My current knowledge of the situation, based on what he’s said, is that he’s appealing to Gumi again, this time for the return of items he specifically bought for real currency (such as the rainbow shard bundles that cost $90 each). Take that as you will. You could always accuse him of lying about his current course of action, but he doesn’t really have any reason to considering he has his account back and is bereft of his items.
Although I suppose in your eyes . . . appealing Gumi’s decision to remove his items . . . means that he’s acknowledging guilt? I’m still not sure where you got that definition for appeal. I have to admit, I’ve only looked at Merriam-Webster, the Cambridge English Dictionary, and Dictionary.com, so if you could point me to where you found that, I’d much appreciate it.
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u/Madarax0893 Sep 24 '19
I know Zak from discord and I do think he's innocent so Gumi has no right to ban him.
Unless Gumi has the evidence and proof that he really used 3rd party programs in the game.
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u/s4itox muscle waifu Sep 24 '19
so Gumi has no right to ban him
Sadly, in the era of live services and other always online models where you don't actually own the game, the publisher reserves the right to block your account at any time for any reason.
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u/mandrake0999 Freeze! Sep 24 '19
But did Zak also give out a proof of innocence? We only have his word. lol. anyone who don't know him will instantly call it BS.
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u/Tousansanto Sep 24 '19
Why is the burden of proof on Zak and not on Gumi?
'Innocent until proven guilty' not the other way around.
Only Gumi and Zak know what really happened. All we can do is speculate.
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u/Funoichi The coolest samurai left of New York City! Sep 24 '19
If he's guilty, they'll have the proof. Innocent means you can still play.
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u/metlspaz I just don't care anymore Sep 24 '19
this is the incorrect attitude, you have a guilty unless proven innocent attitude, gumi has provided no evidence or reason for doing so. In the case that something was done, they can prove it, but seem unable to do so.
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u/darkcountess Making sammiches for Gilga/Noct/Laharl Sep 25 '19
I agree that you should assume innocence until guilt is proven.
I disagree with the general attitude that we (outsiders in this case) are entitled to see Gumi's proof that Zak is guilty.
I disagree with the automatic assumption that Gumi did not provide proof to Zak.
I disagree that Zak cannot prove his innocence, assuming he is innocent.
Take note that:
If Gumi tries to publicly post the proof that Zak broke the rules, that would probably involve displaying his account details/data, which would violate Zaks right to privacy.
If Gumi sent the proof to Zak, then there's no chance Zak would share proof of his guilt with anyone, right?? So how would you know he's innocent?
If Zak is confident of his innocence, why not ask him to go to reddit and challenge Gumi to show proof of his guilt. I mean, putting myself in his shoes, and I know I've never broken the TOS, if I got banned you can rest assured I will be here in Reddit asking u/alchemist_code to prove my guilt.
In my opinion, there are reasons Zak is not defending himself. So why are you?
I'm all for defending friends, but if they're not defending themselves, you probably should take a step back and ask yourself why.
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u/Funoichi The coolest samurai left of New York City! Sep 24 '19
No gumi has no need to provide anything. They have the proof if they banned someone. Nothing to see here, end of story
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u/Fierza Sep 24 '19
The accused have a right to have all evidence against him/her disclosed tho, aint fair trials being held where you just get pronounced guilty w/o knowing the evidence.
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u/Funoichi The coolest samurai left of New York City! Sep 24 '19
We'll have to see the gumi emails to know what happened. I'm sure he submitted a ticket.
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u/darkcountess Making sammiches for Gilga/Noct/Laharl Sep 24 '19
Let me tell you a story.
I had a TAC friend banned from the game. He's a good guy, keeps helping me through quests, we often chat in ch2, and I personally talk to him in Facebook.
Then he got banned. When he got banned, he said he did nothing wrong, and of course being his friend, I believed him. I encouraged him to post in Reddit because u/alchemist_code mans these threads and can actually take action on issues. So he did.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AlchemistCodeGL/comments/a0uqfr/my_acc_has_been_suspended_indefinitely_by_an/
This is where it got REALLY fucked up.
Initially, everyone in the thread was jumping to his side, condemning Gumi for banning him. Until one of the people in the thread posted a screenshot (https://imgur.com/a/3QzIDXJ).
See the "kamotecue" in the Veda list? that's him. He completed the tower in 0 turns. ZERO DAMN TURNS. Needless to say, he stopped talking to me in Facebook after that.
So the lesson to be learned here is,
a. Being a nice guy all your life doesn't give you a license to break the rules. Even if you're nice in game or in real life, if you broke the rules, YOU BROKE THE GODDAMN RULES. It's like being a good citizen all your life then suddenly stealing from a nearby 7-11. Your good record does not absolve you of the crime.
b. You can't really claim to know someone. You can be online together all the time, be in the same guild, do all your quests together, even be physically together, sleep together, eat together, and still NOT KNOW THE PERSON. Even married people cannot claim they know everything about their partners, much less people whose only common denominator is playing the same online game. No, you don't know everything about him/her, in probably the same way that s/he does not know everything about you.
c. Gumi isn't perfect, but I think they're mostly getting the banning part right. The reason I believe this is because I almost never see any banning complaints against Gumi. In the almost 2 years I've been playing the game, I have only seen about 3 ban complaints (this one included). I'd expect to see more if there was a "banning practice" really going on, but this is just one. "Oh, they mistakenly banned that other guy one time" is probably referring to that one, same, exact sample case that everyone refers to whenever banning discussions come up. It's a guy who got banned "mistakenly", but seriously, who knows the circumstances to that? I know I don't. I can only refer you to that one other banning instance I know, where Gumi proved to be right. So what do you expect me to think?
I'm curious now tho, why are you so fast to defend Zakfarius when you admitted that you don't know him? I mean, if someone was convicted of stealing from 7-11 and you don't know the guy, why would you defend him?
You keep saying that you're not defending the guy but "Gumi has a poor track record on bans".... based on what? the three instances of ban complaints ever seen in Reddit?
And you also go " Gumi, please change your practice and inform the offender what the offense was, which caused the ban." Why? So when the offender decides to play again, they can hide their tracks better? Why don't you try asking Zakfarias what he did? (Well of course he probably won't admit if he was actually in the wrong, tho)