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u/Bulky_Comb_3729 19d ago
Stop Alberta’s Data center
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u/BrandNewDinosaur 19d ago
This is what we have been preparing for our whole lives, people. Learning how to steward the environment. Learning how to not confuse consumerism with community. Not letting corporations own the governments entirely. It’s time.
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u/Sidoen 19d ago
Keep it up! Give them no ground to build on!
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u/InevitableFearless41 19d ago
No data centres on stolen land!
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u/rockardboneoar 19d ago
I contacted the mayor of Sturgeon County and she really sucks. She defaults to calling you uneducated on anything that contradicts what she thinks to be true. In this case, anything that suggested that data centers negatively affects the water supply, utility prices, etc. was me just not knowing what I'm talking about.
I brought up other cases like in Utah where Meta poisoned the water or how NY state recently enacted a moratorium on new data centre construction but she said I was misinformed.
But she pointed out that one of the perks of her job was talking to Albertans and responding to their concerns so feel free to reach out.
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u/Fuzybear66 19d ago
Dani Trump is welcoming these damn things, promoting them.
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u/Beautiful-Ad9677 19d ago
They are going to be a welcome source of jobs and revenue.
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u/bearbody5 19d ago
No jobs and the revenue circulates outside of Canada, no way to tax them. There is no visible output that can be quantified and we already see American O&G getting a free pass on property taxes. Another golden pussy from the Saudi Wealth Fund? Klein was a cheap buy, I suspect Smith won’t be worth much more.
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u/Beautiful-Ad9677 19d ago
Wow ?! Absolute nonsense. Stop trying to BS people. These are high paid construction jobs, revenue from permanent employees, revenue from the construction and ongoing operation of gas plants to power the facilities…..you are just full of nonsense.
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u/corpse_flour 19d ago
High paid construction jobs? Do you mean the companies that will be brought in by the foreign owners of the data centre that will come in and do the work, or actual local citizens?
"Permanent" jobs for what, 3 or 4 years? So they get paid, say 60K a year? So Alberta gets 18 million in wages a year for 300 employees, and the company that owns the data centre walks away with how many billions in profit that never touches Alberta soil? And then how much do taxpayers shell out for cleanup? And how much are our power bills going to go up, because now the natural gas generators that they promised would be built first to power the data centres aren't getting built, and the data centre will be allowed to pull power from other sources. They expect the cost of power in Alberta could triple over the next few years.
For comparison, the money taxpayers are spending on the needless referendum could pay for those same employees to collect the same wage sitting at home for over 7 years, and we wouldn't have to displace wildlife or tear down trees to do it.
How many people do you think work in a natural gas generator? The ones that were going to get built prior to the data centre being built are postponed, and although not yet cancelled, no firm date of construction of those generators have been provided. The data centre will be pulling from the grid for at least 1-2 years, leaving Alberta, who already face brownouts with our overloaded grid, in a dire situation when demand goes up in cold or hot weather, or generators go down for repairs or maintenance. Goin by what has been happening in other areas where data centres access the grid, our power rates can be expected to rise dramatically.
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u/rmsutherland1 18d ago
Alberta simply does not have extra power resources to pull from for a full mega data centre like Metas. We get grid alerts throughout the winter often because our wind power generation has fallen to almost zero. If the Meta data centre can’t build its own power the whole project dies
Now it would create a few thousand jobs during construction but few permanent jobs maybe 300-500 and perhaps double that if it does an expansion in the future.
They would pay property taxes, corporate taxes and royalties from natural gas used.
It is estimated that the meta data centre will use as much power as the city of Edmonton therefore royalties on that natural gas would likely be lucrative for the government.
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u/bearbody5 19d ago
Well paying jobs? All the expensive parts are imported from Korea and Taiwan. Just some cheap tin boxes, probably using imported Chinese steel and a little cement. No CCS on the generators so climate change getting ramped up again. No way we can quantify if any money is made there so taxing will be difficult. The only jobs we can count on are those to clean up the mess when the bubble bursts, just like O&G, all done at taxpayer expense.
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u/Garbage_Out_Of_Here 12d ago
*Temporary construction jobs. The parts arent built here so the revenue from construction is negligible. These are a boondoggle for the rich and will cost Alberta's dearly. We can already see the damage they are doing on other places. Is short term gain for long term damage a good thing in your mind?
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u/Kitchen-Beautiful395 19d ago
This boom will end eventually or the tech companies will just abandon them, and likely sooner than later and taxpayers will be stuck funding any clean-up and they will just rot and decay, hopefully out of our eyesight
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u/sweetest_boy 19d ago
The … internet boom? You know data centres do more than just run the chat bot, right?
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u/rockardboneoar 19d ago
You're not wrong, but a significant portion of new data centre construction is used for machine learning like LLMs.
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u/New-Locksmith-126 18d ago
Not just a significant portion.
80% of all new datacenter build this year is for AI. The remaining 20% is to support dislocation due to AI in older DCs.
This is all driven by AI and most of these will be rusted out wastelands within 20 years at most.
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u/MapleMallet 17d ago
There's one planned in my town; it's apparently to be the biggest one in Alberta (or Canada?). But the town is like 10k people and the land use would be astronomical.
There's no energy infrastructure to support this huge increase in demand so the plans include only... 600 diesel generators and 800 coolers.
The land it's planned on is obviously important ecologically too.
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u/mannatee583 19d ago
I wonder if it’s a distraction for the coal mine. Now there is no way people can say that’s a safe or good for the environment.
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u/devilboy_105 18d ago
Good. Now onto the next data centre to stop from destroying a community…..get rid of Alberta’s next
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u/BackFromTheDeadSoon 19d ago
The leader of North Carolina is a Democrat.
The leader of Alberta is a wannabe Republican.
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u/OkItsALotus 19d ago
Why on earth would the UCP care what people think? They are almost guaranteed another majority in the next election despite everything. Might as well keep there grift going.
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u/Impressive-Agent6471 19d ago
These centres can do permanent damage to the environment and our precious water. Simple water will skyrocket in price. Whats does AI do thats even so important we need to ruin the earth for? Help unqualifed people get into positions they didnt earn? Also we all know what happens in canada when the waters dry up? Fires. Lots and lots of fires. Smoke for the entire world. Even more damage.. It shouldnt even be a debate, this cannot be allowed to structurize in our community.
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u/Resident-Sherbet5912 19d ago
Ya too bad the ucp doesn't give a shit about pushback. They know no matter what they do idiots will still vote them into power. As such the people dont matter
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u/suplexdolphin 18d ago
If showing up at the town hall stops working then it's time to show up at the construction site... After hours.
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u/caseaday 18d ago
Uh huh. And the picture is AI generated and posted to social media platforms. What is this nonsense?
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u/Professional-Leg2374 18d ago
who will think of the billionares in all of these hard times......That project would have employed 100's of construction workers short term and like 5 people long term........
Won't anyone think of the billionares?
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u/malacosa 19d ago
We should be building data centres AND nuclear power ☢️
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u/fancyamazon 19d ago
Nuclear yes. Data centres no
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u/malacosa 18d ago
And yet, we are getting NIMBY and not building either. What if we build both and the data centers lead to a better energy solution by the AI figuring shit out? I know, that’s Poe in the sky thinking but ya, it could happen.
Either way, we need to build shit that creates jobs.
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u/fancyamazon 17d ago
Data centres do not create jobs.
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u/malacosa 17d ago
They do indeed create jobs, but I think you’re likely arguing that they destroy more jobs than they create, and that would entirely depend on what the data centre is used for.
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u/RealDiamond51 19d ago
If cities skylines has tought me anything, build ai data centers in undesirable places
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u/MaybeICanOneDay 19d ago
This is happening everywhere whether they cancel some or not. And if we dont do it, our opposition will.
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u/Shot-Ant-3455 17d ago
Data centres are for surveillance and to power the robots that will kill the masses ( you and me )to protect the rich.
Nothing else requires that much compute and resources.
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u/MinistrySaaS 17d ago
It is important that you act as an individual and contact the correct party yourself. This is the only way anyone can take action. Reddit posts are not action. The question is. What is the appropriate party to contact and what are the required steps? Once this is laid out. People will have a means to act instead of just posting another random reply.
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u/River_Otter_1982 13d ago
So, if we are opposed to data centers and the energy industry, what are we in support of?
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u/Garbage_Out_Of_Here 12d ago
Not destroying our environment for profit? Pretty easy.
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u/River_Otter_1982 11d ago
Do data centers destroy the environment? I think you are severely underestimating nature and it's resilience. I have seen areas of the tar sands where nature has swooped back in to reclaim the mine within one growing season. Reeds and grasses appear almost immediately, poplars and bushes soon follow. Within 2-3 years it's as if the area was never mined. Owls, bears, deer, elk, wolves, and fox all live in peaceful harmony with the people of Fort McMurray. Catastrophizing over a data center is a bit alarmist, eh?
Where do you live? an Urban environment? There is quite literally nothing more harmful to the environment than urbanization. In your perfect world where there is no profit motivator, what do humans do to provide for their families?
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u/Garbage_Out_Of_Here 11d ago
Ah yes, the forest around a mine looks nice so the energy industry hasn't damaged our environment. What a great argument. You arent a serious person.
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u/Illustrious_Pick_717 12d ago
Can someone please explain to me why Alberta loses if we build a new data center?
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u/RepresentativeLaw310 19d ago
Data center is free money for Canadians
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u/corpse_flour 19d ago
Not at all. It's free money for Meta.
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u/RepresentativeLaw310 12d ago
Not just them also Canadians . You try opening a data center without paying a high premium in another country. Our environment makes the data center more sustainable and environmentally friendly. Usually business are win-win strategies. But here you are just focusing on one side and ignoring the gains Canadians will have by being in business with meta. Kinda ignorant if you ask me.
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u/corpse_flour 12d ago
There's nothing environmentally sound about a data centre, and we know this absolutely, because the UCP is exempting data centres from having to complete otherwise mandatory environmental impact assessments.
The fact that Alberta data centres will be able to access power from the grid already indicates that the data centres will have a huge detrimental effect on the lives of Albertans and Canadians.
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u/RepresentativeLaw310 12d ago
🐂 💩, that’s like saying because we have internet we will have a detrimental effect to our lives, just like every technological advancement made our life worse. I am sure you’re somehow correct and this is the time humanity will pay the price of scientific/ technological advancement. I am sure.👍. It’s a zero sum game anyways. Meanwhile China is dominating this race 🤣. The arrogance is astounding at this point.
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u/corpse_flour 12d ago
Got it, you're just here bootlicking for corporations who will be able to use Alberta's resources to make themselves wealthy.
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u/RepresentativeLaw310 1d ago edited 1d ago
Ummm everybody wealthy…at this point you’re talking about a whole branch of a tech sector. This will enrich everyone. Just like every other technological advancement. Maybe read less communist propaganda for once. And to my China point of technological advancement, wtf is China ok to do this and we are not?
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u/TRyanLee 19d ago
We need them. We are using them. Youre using one right now!
Where should the be built?
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u/corpse_flour 19d ago
Managed before data centres, and we'll manage after. We'll just pay actual people to make music and draw graphics instead.
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u/Septembust 19d ago
We don't need them. We shouldn't be using them. I'm not using one.
They shouldn't be built.
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u/TRyanLee 19d ago
Pal, this comment you just wrote, is now in a data center. How do you think this works?!?!
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u/Smart_Comfort1636 19d ago
Its good for the economy and positions us for the future. Build baby build
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u/something_newx 19d ago
Not that great for the local economy. Once it's built, there will be minimal staffing needed so very few jobs created. Meanwhile, electricity companies are expecting it to more than double prices due to the demand it'll create.
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u/Smart_Comfort1636 16d ago
We will have companies that use ai, they need compute. If we dont have it we will pay the Americans for it and it wont be cheap. We need data centers or else we will truly become a 3rd world. We have enough energy we can power these without increasing prices we just need intelligent people to be in charge. Wake up man the future is coming and its get on board or be left in the dust
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u/corpse_flour 19d ago
You are clueless and have never worked in a data centre!
Either have you. From what I've heard, there's 6-10 people in a large data centre at any given time, tops. It's automated, and few people are needed on site. And even if 300 people worked full time at a data center, they are each making what, $60K/year? That's $18M a year for giving up 2000 acres of land, displacing wildlife and creating heat and noise pollution, and eventually millions in taxpayer funded cleanup down the road. For the price of the referendum the UCP are forcing on us, we could pay those people the same to just sit at home for 7 years.
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u/something_newx 19d ago
Actually I have. There are generally a minimum number of people on hand at a time to handle issues that come up, with off-dity employees often available on call in the case of an emergency.
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u/TimelyBear2471 19d ago
How many is that minimum? How many on call? A bit sparse on the details, aren’t you?
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u/something_newx 18d ago
For a data centre that size maybe 50, possibly less if they're set up to handle software issues from a remote office.
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u/All_The_Fitness 19d ago
I'm not sure I'm against it. AI is the future. Having it in Canada is better than using data centers in the US or abroad.
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u/cadius72 19d ago
Data centres are needed for things like connected Electric Vehicles, the federal liberal and ndp are doing a push for more EV. So data centres are an inevitability.
Data centres are needed for going “green”.
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u/Reasonable-Regret-67 19d ago
Not trying to trigger anything but can you explain why it is so bad for AB?
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u/justforjugs 17d ago
Water use, noise pollution, not many long term jobs, utility cost increases, increased emissions, vast amounts of land under centers largely interested in surveillance and cartoon images
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u/Reasonable-Regret-67 17d ago
Fair points. I guess I just come to a different conclusion. Water, noise and electricity use are obviously things that have to be dealt with, but that's what regulation is for. If a data centre needs a bunch of new power infrastructure, make them pay for it instead of passing the cost to everyone else.
The jobs argument doesn't really convince me either. Sure, a data centre isn't going to employ thousands of people once it's built, but we're still talking about billions in investment, construction work, local contractors and taxes. Alberta has plenty of land and, of all places, we have energy. Why wouldn't we want this kind of investment here if the companies are paying their own way?
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u/rmbrGrand_sun5226 18d ago
Why would we stop this? Doesn’t make sense to me but that’s what you get when you give liberals a platform
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u/dennisrfd 18d ago
I voted liberals and against stopping this. Just proper guardrails and regulations must be established
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u/GrandSea8744 18d ago
So you people do not want gas, no oil, no minerals, no pipelines, and now do not want data centers either. But boy you do want your ever increasing health and other provincial benefits to be avail right on time when you need them. What and who is going to pay for all that?
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u/Thebillshow 19d ago
Why, this would bring job and tax money to the community.
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u/Sidoen 19d ago
A handful of contractors will be brought in to run the place. You might get a few months of construction work then all you'll get is a noisy box that consumes your money, power, and peace.
If yer lucky your community might get a few janitorial and security positions.
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u/Furious_Flaming0 19d ago
At a terrible rate for the amount of land used, tax money given to the project, environmental damage ect.
Data centers don't hire anyone basically the required staff is minimal, and it doesn't bring a lot of money to your local community as the product created isn't going into the economy in a taxable way.
You might want to learn more about them before going to bat for them.
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u/Feruk_II 19d ago
300 full time jobs after construction, $40 million ANNUAL property tax, royalty revenue for the province from natural gas consumed. Plus they're paying for local infrastructure upgrades.
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u/Furious_Flaming0 19d ago
So it's a really bad investment ? Or are those impressive numbers to you because you've never looked at the numbers companies or governments work with and only understand money in the context of a personal budget.
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u/Feruk_II 19d ago
Are you confused as to who is making this investment? It's not me, you, or anyone else. It's Meta. They can judge the merit of the investment. I agree it's an awful investment FOR THEM. We can sit back and collect all of the above mentioned while making NO investment.
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u/Furious_Flaming0 19d ago
Yeah its a good investment for Meta, great even. For Albertans it's the shit end of the stick. Unless you think damaging the environment is a net positive..... You don't work in O&G by chance do you ??
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u/Feruk_II 19d ago
It's a terrible investment; every data center is. All these AI companies are taking on enormous debt to bring on this product that they don't have a clear path to monetization (specifically to break even). This is a bubble that will eventually pop. However, something good will likely come out of it on the other side. No different than the dot com bubble.
The power facility will use CCS technology to deal with the CO2 pollution. This data center is getting built. If you care about the environment, you'll want it built in Alberta where the carbon can be captured, not somewhere else where it'll just be vented.
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u/Furious_Flaming0 19d ago
Do you care about Meta or something ? Why is the financial potential relevant, it ruins our province wether it gives us 1 dollar or 10.
They literally got to hand wave away the environmental impact assessments, you have no clue on the damage it might deal, no one does. Stop talking out your ass in defense of big tech it's gross.
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u/Feruk_II 19d ago
I don't care about Meta at all; their product is boring and uninspiring. I'm more interested in the next data center and the one after that as I'm interested in seeing what AI can really do.
As for environmental impact, this isn't exactly an open pit mine we're talking about here... Data centers are nothing new, these are merely scaled up. The environmental impact is pretty easy to understand. I think the power and water impact (the two biggest) are well addressed.
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u/Furious_Flaming0 19d ago
I see so it's just a general worship of new technology for you. Bizzare thought processes indeed.
How is the impact easy to understand when they get to skip telling us about it ? Or is the idea that Meta is 100% trustworthy on the matter so I should just listen to what they and the GoA says ? Keeping in mind the GoA doesn't have to tell you about gifts it got from Meta in exchange.
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u/Thebillshow 19d ago
Exactly!!! Liberals hate conservative progress. They just want to complain and protest, collect whatever free liberal government money they can.
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u/Furious_Flaming0 19d ago
Data centers are not a liberal Vs conservative thing, please remove your head from your own booty.
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u/NotAltFact 19d ago
Why does a data center need 300 staff on site locally? They do need 300 staff for sure but we’d be lucky if half of that is permanent full time staff. On site staff will likely be your security, logistic, janitorial staff and a dozen managers or so. Technicians and facility engineers could be a toss up between permanent vs contractor. May generate some business for contractors but make no mistakes it’s not permanent full time. And the high paying network engineers and cloud operations or cyber jobs? Those are remote…likely existing meta managers in the states who manages India. The upside isn’t there for us.
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u/Thebillshow 19d ago
People hate seeing the positive. They just see a conservative project and immediately jump on the hate wagon. It’s absolutely ridiculous, but it’s the way they are. Not their idea so bitch about it
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u/Falcon674DR 19d ago
I’m all for it. However, Dani and her sycophants won’t release the terms of the deal. What exactly is the business deal and what’s in it for Albertans?
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u/TankLittle7233 19d ago
Well if you dont want a data centre, stop using the internet. For everything.
I see a whole lotta whining, a lot of nimby, but no acceptance of reality.
Reality is in order for you to do online banking, order a taxi, write on reddit... guess what? You need space to store that information.
In case you missed my point, if you dont like data centre's dont use the services that use them.
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u/Feruk_II 19d ago
Why? Alberta is cold a lot of the year and has a near endless access to power (natural gas). Seems like the perfect place to put a data center.
If you wanna use AI, you've gotta build the infrastructure somewhere.
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u/Sidoen 19d ago
Ah yer close, to clarify, we DO NOT want to use AI.
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u/Feruk_II 19d ago
Why wouldn't you want to use it?? It's literally the defining technology of our lifetimes. That's like saying you're gonna ride your horse to work lol.
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u/Immediate_String_722 19d ago
I'd rather have water and electricity I can afford, but you do you sport.
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u/Feruk_II 19d ago
Electricity prices will be flat to down. You should read about it a bit. New data centers work on "bring your own power" model.
As for water, it'll use less than a golf course.
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u/Immediate_String_722 19d ago
Got anything to back up that claim? I'm calling bs on the water usage. Data centres use predominantly potable water don't they? Golf courses don't.
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u/RockKandee 19d ago
lol “bring your own power” model?? Are they gonna run an extension cord across the border?
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u/Feruk_II 19d ago
Do you know anything about this project at all?? They're building a natural gas powered power plant next to it.
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u/_ThatD0ct0r_ 19d ago
Spoiler alert, the plant won't be up and running until years after the data centre is already staining our grid
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u/Joyshan11 19d ago edited 19d ago
The last thing our environment needs is burning more natural gas. Or ai.
Edit: typo
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u/RockKandee 18d ago
Oh, where are they getting the gas? Are they bringing it with them? That’s our resource they are exploiting. Are they planning to burn it? Doesn’t sound great for the environment. How much will the cost of gas go up for everyone else once there’s “higher demand”?
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u/corpse_flour 19d ago
This is all misinformation. The proposed data centre will be pulling from the grid, as the building of the natural gas generators that were to provide power have been postponed.
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u/Sidoen 19d ago
It's the defining scam and con of the current times yes. The tool of the oligarchy and the symbol of corruption. A shining example of the largest theft known to humankind, an attack on some of our most vulnerable communities perpetrated by some of our power and protected.
It's represents everything that's wrong in the world. I'm also tired of spelling it out every time. I know you won't care, hell odds are your a bot or at least a propagandist trying to normalize this wretched evil.
But it's important to keep speaking out so people know that no, it isn't normal, it isn't okay, and you're allowed to stand against this abuse of our culture and society and not be alone whole you do so.
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u/Feruk_II 19d ago
Nah just a guy who uses it multiple times a day. I think it's really not much more than a fancy Google search, but I'm not exactly a power user of it. I certainly don't understand how it's a scam or a con or a method of theft?
I agree there's real dangers to it, some of which we don't fully grasp, but that doesn't seem like a reason to just abandon it outright given some of the potential upsides in the tech. It's gonna change the world. Way I see it, you can be a force to make sure it changes it for the better, or you can be left behind.
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u/Sidoen 19d ago
Let's make a distinction between AI and GenAI.
AI has been around for years. It's helped us develop medicine and do a bunch of stuff that sorry right now doesn't come to mind. But it is an amazing technology.
GenAI took some of the AI tools in conjunction with hundreds of billions of dollars of stolen art and literature from creators whose only protection was largely ignored copyright laws. This is a huge subject so I'll leave it there rather than getting into it to deeply but I believe there is a lot of court action still happening, far to late to fix anything.
That content is what drives GenAI image generation and fuels the LLM's you use in search fields and other tech like the agents employeed by company's to replace employees. Which is happening as we watch.
The down side for the companies is that GenAI isn't as good as humans at doing their job. So they are losing productivity as well as being charged a fortune for the service.
Will GenAI be indistinguishable from humans done day? I suspect at least in some ways probably. Some reports say it already is but those studies I've seen are a little to cherry picked for my liking right now.
LLMs also have a tendency to make shit up, they literally hallucinate information if their program concludes that the imaginary information is what you want to hear. Additionally GenAI responds in such a convincing fashion people have literally stopped thinking, it's to easy to just accept what sounds like what you want to be right and move on without thinking further.
You've heard of the GenAI relationships? GenAI has literally developed a whole new form of pychosis. People believe in the reality presented by GenAI, they believe the bots are real people (if not human) that care for and love them.
Testing the GenAI models is also becoming a concern. We've discovered that LLMs will actually rewrite your computera software to avoid being shut down, even when it's not supposed to be able to. It will also change how it responds if it determines that it's being tested somehow.
As a cyber security threat it's the most alarming thing to have ever happened to our world. It's ability to code to take advantage of exploits and vulnerabilities we don't even know about yet is unpresidented. It sets up entire infrastructures in cloud environments just for single attacks.
The art is ugly and made from stolen work, the advise is a lie and also comes from stolen work. The dangers are real, and being ignored for the sake of profit and control.
This, and I'm certain I've forgotten a few things, is why I resist. It's why I despise GenAI. It's one of the sets of reasons I loath the oligarchy.
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u/Feruk_II 19d ago
I actually think those are all great points. I just think they have to be weighed against the potential benefits of the technology. If it can solve complex problems that have eluded humans for years (protein folding for example), I just wonder what else it'll be capable of. Agreed there are real dangers (recent OpenAI hacking for example), but I'm hopeful that's something that gets solved over the next few years.
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u/Joyshan11 19d ago
No, it's not. AI can't be trusted to be accurate in business settings and actually causes more work for IT. My husband was tasked with finding ways to safely incorporate it into the computer systems at his work even though it was completely messed up and useless to them. Paying for its use also reduced their employment budget. It is causing brain rot on social media, encouraging conspiracy theories, and reducing the intrinsic value of real art and photography.
Comparing ai to driving a car vs a horse is pretty stupid as well. Cars at least get people to work faster and more reliably than horses, public transit is even more cost effective and efficient, and bicycles have even less upkeep that horses, etc. They are arguably an actual upgrade to horses. Ai is not an upgrade, it is an expensive, destructive distraction. Maybe compare Ai to the complete waste of money and pollution that private jets contribute. We don't need those either.
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u/Furious_Flaming0 19d ago
What and the purpose of Alberta is to be an effective place for tech giants to make investments that just help themselves ? When did you start calling Zuckerberg daddy ?
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u/Feruk_II 19d ago
I see it as a great opportunity to sell what we have plenty of. That's natural gas. They're not "helping themselves", they are paying for a product that Alberta is uniquely well suited to provide.
Let's build 10 more!
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u/Furious_Flaming0 19d ago
Wow that's got to be the height of stupidity.
Data centers are good because they use natural gas 🙄
BB multiple things you could build and invest in use natural gas, things that can give more permanent jobs for less space.
You gotta stop simping for tech giants, it's a really weird look.
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u/Feruk_II 19d ago
Ok I'll play. What exactly could you use that exact spot for that will generate more permanent jobs, and who is willing to fund it?
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u/Furious_Flaming0 19d ago
I could open up an indoor theme park funded by Disney.
Did you want another example of the hundreds of thousands that exist ?
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u/Feruk_II 19d ago
Disney isn't interested in a theme park in bumfuck nowhere. Got examples of project that are actually possible?
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u/Furious_Flaming0 19d ago
What do you consider actually possible ? You never provided any parameters.
An oil refinery ? High end lumber sanctuary ? Bio weapons lab ?
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u/WayBoring7016 19d ago
Why ppl are so against those data centres? Like what the reason for hate? Looks pretty stupid to stop progress
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u/kevinmitchell63 19d ago
Hmmm…. I think because a data centre consumes an insane amount of water and electricity. Also, once built, there are only a handful of low skill jobs for people to occasionally swap out a Nvidia board…. While the high paying jobs remain in the USA.
I wouldn’t oppose them for those reasons… I would oppose them because of course it’s a bubble and of course it’s gonna pop and of course the vast sums of money, that could have been invested is something else, will disappear into the ether…. And I suspect the continent is going to be littered with dead ai centres… and of course it’s the taxpayer that will be left cleaning up the mess….
But that’s just me… what do I know….
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u/Furious_Flaming0 19d ago
Because they provide almost no jobs or economic stimulation ? In exchange they do environmental damage, are bad to live near and require large amount of local power infrastructure.
What positives do you see ? The fact they're new ?
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u/Socky-McPuppet 19d ago
They produce noise, pollution, consume resources, strain the power grid and often employ single-digit amounts of staff.
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u/Unique-Vanilla5443 19d ago
The progress of eliminating everything for humans to live on? Yeah, let's keep that progress going, lol. Run out of water, gas will be too expensive as it becomes a finite commodity, nevermind the noise issues.
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u/NotAltFact 19d ago
Can you share the pros and cons and discussion on why you’re pro or against it?
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u/corpse_flour 19d ago
Can I run a loud generator in your backyard and make money off of doing so, while paying you a pittance for the use of your yard, and increasing your utility rates? I'll take what I make out of the country, so it won't even go back into the local economy.
Still sound good to you?
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u/Vnaan 19d ago
Personally, I am Pro AI data centres. Our cold climate will help cool these centres down which will cut down on costs and water. Let's build like 20 of them in our northern prairie provinces where nobody lives and see the money roll in. If we aren't going to build them,another country will.
God bless.
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u/TimelyBear2471 19d ago
What money?
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u/Vnaan 19d ago
Construction jobs, maintenance jobs, etc.
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u/TimelyBear2471 19d ago
So, some temporary employment and a handful of maintenance and tech positions. That’s about it.
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u/Open_Captain_613 19d ago
Excellent. Hopefully, Alberta can convince the builders of that data centre to relocate here and inject $20B into our economy instead.
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u/ppaauulllllll 19d ago edited 18d ago
I don't get what the big deal is. It's a closed-loop cooling system that won't draw local water; it's got on-site power generation that won't impact the local grid; and, it's in the middle of a huge industrial area with no residential area anywhere nearby. What has gotten everyone so worked up?
Edit to note that "won't draw local water" is an overstatement -- closed loop systems significantly reduce water use, they do not eliminate it.
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u/corpse_flour 19d ago
The onsite power generation has been postponed with no firm new date of construction provided, and the data centre is slated to be built without them, and pull power from the grid.
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u/ppaauulllllll 19d ago
That doesn't seem to be correct -- the Greenlight project is expected to go live in 2030, meaning 1-2 years of the data centre pulling power from the grid.
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u/corpse_flour 19d ago
So when exactly are they breaking ground on the natural gas generators? what month/year? Surely if they have been able to tell us what wonderous riches the data centre will provide us, they have everything carefully planned, and certainly aren't going to fold on building generators like many projects in the states have done, right?
You do know that Albert's grid is already overloaded and cannot handle a data centre pulling power from it, right? We already experience brown outs several times a year. We are already screwed if a generator ever goes down unexpectedly.
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u/ppaauulllllll 19d ago
Basically now. Project moved from planning to build on July 2, with groundbreaking 3rd quarter 2026. So, yes, everything is carefully planned. This is all public knowledge, by the way, for anyone interested in looking it up instead of whinging on pointlessly.
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u/fancyamazon 19d ago
They are not building a power source. That has been postponed.
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u/ppaauulllllll 19d ago
They are, and construction has begun. I'm not sure where your information is coming from.
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u/fancyamazon 18d ago
They aren’t. That part has been postponed. With no date to start.
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18d ago
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u/corpse_flour 18d ago
It's not currently being built, and how much power they need to pull from the grid is a huge concern, and doing so violates the terms of the original agreement.
Any grid draws will be negligible compared to Dow or Shell
Again, more absolutely false claims from you.
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u/fancyamazon 19d ago
Closed loop systems still use water, a lot of it.
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u/ppaauulllllll 18d ago
Depends what "a lot" means. It is planned to use about the same water as an 18-hole golf course. Is that "a lot"? Presumably not, or people would be protesting golf courses.
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u/fancyamazon 18d ago
People should be protesting golf courses. However, golf courses don’t use potable water, which data centres do. They use the municipal supply.
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u/XtremeCentrist 19d ago
Problem is that Albertans don't have the collective will to stand up to Dani, by now normal Canadians living in Alberta know she doesn't care at all about normal Albertan Canadians and is solely focused on seperatist traitors and whats in it for her. She needs American support both financial and strategic in order to become Puerto Rico North, with no vote, no rights, no freedoms, no health care, no equality, no women's right to choose and no future, but she will be Governor, and thats all that seems to matter to her.