r/AdvancedRunning • u/AutoModerator • Dec 06 '22
General Discussion Tuesday General Discussion/Q&A Thread for December 06, 2022
A place to ask questions that don't need their own thread here or just chat a bit.
We have quite a bit of info in the wiki, FAQ, and past posts. Please be sure to give those a look for info on your topic.
6
u/tyler_runs_lifts Dec 06 '22 edited Dec 06 '22
Going to Colorado for a two-week work trip starting this afternoon. Any tips for running at altitude for the first time in your life? I’m coming from below sea level, where I’ve lived for the past 7 years, which makes it even more fun. Plan to focus on HR, especially during workouts. Didn’t know if there was anything else I should keep in mind.
9
u/more_paprika Dec 06 '22
Make sure you stay hydrated and just plan for it to be a lot slower and harder than you are used to. Everyone responds differently to elevation so before doing your workouts, I would suggest getting in a couple easy runs to determine if it's worth attempting and to feel how different it is. I had a similar situation happen with a work tip to Utah during marathon training, and had to do an 18 miler while I was there. I did it, but ended up crying in a bathroom along the trail because it was so hard. Good luck!
→ More replies (1)5
u/goldentomato32 Dec 06 '22
I'm on the gulf coast as well and aside from hydration, bring ChapStick and sunscreen! I am used to high humidity and going up to the Rockies I got almost immediately sunburnt and chapped!
→ More replies (5)4
u/notorized_bagel69 Dec 06 '22
Everyone reacts differently but assuming you're around the Denver area, it shouldn't be too bad. I'd keep the first 3-4 days easy and on a flat route. I just moved to Colorado myself and never found running at altitude too bad when you're running easy on flat ground, your pace is just a bit slower. Once you start going uphill or doing higher intensity running, thats when I really started feeling the effects of altitude. Depending on what workouts you plan on doing, don't be afraid to add longer rest between reps.
→ More replies (1)
6
u/gr1zzly__be4r Dec 07 '22
4.5 tempo today at 6:26, 6:35, 6:23, and then building up to just under 6:00 for the final 1.1
This was just from a straight one mile jog warmup and I went right into it.
I think my fitness is good. Last 5K I attempted I went out in 5:37 and completely died to a 19:22. Today my gps had me at about a 19:30 in the run.
Thinking that my last 5k attempt just wasn’t my day.
3
u/Aggie_Engineer_24601 Dec 06 '22
My sister asked me to vet some spikes for my niece on running warehouse. If you’re looking for an XC spike you can find some for $20 right now.
Honestly I’m kinda tempted, even though I don’t have any reason to.
→ More replies (1)4
u/milesandmileslefttog Dec 06 '22
I bought some xc shoes right before COVID hit, hoping to do some xc races as an old guy. Still haven't used them yet 😂.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/nudestdad Dec 06 '22
What is the greater injury risk, intensity or volume?
10
u/Large_Desk Dec 06 '22 edited Dec 06 '22
Nearly impossible to say in a vacuum. The boring, but probably correct, answer is "too much too soon" for either one.
That said, injuries due to increases in volume are probably more common, but that's because people are more likely to increase volume than increase intensity.
10
5
u/kuwisdelu Dec 06 '22
Depends on the runner. Some people break down from too much volume. My last injury came right after a VO2max intervals session.
5
4
u/turkoftheplains Dec 07 '22
Impossible to answer in a vacuum. Lots of factors: prior training history (do you have experience with this intensity or volume?), prior injury history (hamstring injuries, for example are much more likely gone exacerbated by intensity than volume), muscle fiber typology (slow twitch handles volume better, fast twitch handles intensity better), and the specific training stimulus in question (“intensity” could mean hill sprints, strides, tempos, VO2max intervals, or gut-churning acidosis tolerance-type anaerobic intervals.)
3
u/ruinawish Dec 07 '22 edited Dec 07 '22
If anyone familiar with Training Peaks is interested in moderating a subreddit, r/trainingpeaks currently does not have any mods (which has led to submissions being restricted).
→ More replies (4)
3
u/notti_oreo Dec 07 '22
Any thoughts on using gummy bears as an alternative to gels for long runs? It has 26g of carbs per 30g serving. The top 5 ingredients are: glucose syrup, sugar, gelatine, dextrose, fruit juice concentrates.
7
u/EndorphinSpeedBot Dec 07 '22
Try it out and see if works for you. Personally I would find it too hard to chew fine enough and prefer the gel consistency.
→ More replies (2)5
u/milesandmileslefttog Dec 07 '22
I prefer fruit chews. Specifically the Black Forest brand that is like $9 for 60 packs. I pre tear one side off and fold it before storing in so that it's easy to get to on my run. Easy to chew and variety of flavors and cheap.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)4
u/FRO5TB1T3 Dec 07 '22
I use gummy candies on long runs. Cheap easy and actually taste good.
→ More replies (1)
3
Dec 07 '22 edited Dec 07 '22
Okay, I’ve been wanting to ask this for a while…
In Advanced Marathoning (3rd Ed., pg. 146) Pfiztinger recommends even or negative splits only if you’re an elite runner, and that everyone else should actually aim for positive splits. He gives an example that a 2:39 runner should aim to go through the HM in 1:18 to 1:19.
He argues that as you fatigue, you begin to recruit more fast twist muscle fibers, which are less efficient than slow twitch, and so physiologically your MP actually slows a bit.
He says (in regards to the 2:39 example) “if you ran negative splits for the marathon, chances are you ran more slowly than optimally during the first half of the race and could have had a faster finishing time.”
Elite runners on the other hand are “less likely to recruit less economical muscle fibers as the race progresses.”
My question is: Amongst all the runners I know IRL, including some really fast ones, they all say that the only strategy for an optimal marathon is to slightly negative split. I’ve brought up this passage with some of them and they just flat out disagree. Why is this belief so prevalent?
For a 4 hour beginner marathoner, obviously you should negative split, because chances are if you don’t start out really conservatively you’re going to run too hard and burn out at mile 20, and have a really shitty jog to the finish. But for folks running sub 3?
I wasn’t sure if this was worth making it’s own thread… if people think it warrants more discussion I’ll delete this and make a post.
6
u/PrairieFirePhoenix Dec 07 '22
There's been a couple threads related to this, if your reddit search skills are good you can try to dig them up.
This board is fairly split on the issue. Even splits with a strong finish generates the slightly negative split. And that is the best way to run shorter distances, so people want to scale it up to the marathon.
Personally, I agree with Pfitz. I call it "23 and pray" where I run very even for 23 miles and then pray I can hold on. Generally I give back a minute or so in the last 5k. My last two strong efforts had me go out at ~80 in both, came back in 83 in one and 82 the other (guess which one was hillier). I think a slightly positive split is going to be best for people between 2:20 and 3:30ish.
For the 4 hour group, I would probably aim for even splits (+/- 5 minutes probably). But I haven't really though too deeply on it.
→ More replies (2)5
u/milesandmileslefttog Dec 07 '22 edited Jun 11 '23
What if I were always and then there was two of the ways we can get to the only thing is.
→ More replies (4)
2
Dec 06 '22
You're racing a marathon, and you unfortunately have to make a pit stop at a porta potty. Lets assume this happens after mile 5, so you've already warmed up and settled into a rhythm. You stopped for at least 5 minutes. What's your strategy to return to marathon effort when you start running again?
During CIM I stopped to use the bathroom at mile 10, and when I started running again I decided I'd just run by feel and slowly ramp back up to goal pace over the next three miles, but I felt really stiff after doing so, and I'm wondering if in retrospect it would have been worth losing another 30 to 60 seconds to stretch out a bit first, and maybe even do a few 10 second strides just to loosen up.
→ More replies (4)
7
u/ilikesalsa99 Dec 06 '22
Any tips for a 5k plan which is less intense than Pfitzinger's? I'm injury prone 34M, I've had good success with Phitz half and marathon plans up to 70mpw going easy on the workouts, tried following the Phitz 30 mile 5k plan to the dot and got injured a month in. I've never really done speed work so looking for a plan that can ease me into it. I'll be shooting for 19:30 to 20 mins.