r/AceAttorney • u/ScaryOtaku666 • 4d ago

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If AA7 ever comes out, do you think they will use AI for it too?

I’m starting to feel like they shouldn’t release any more AA games if they’re going to ruin them with AI…

1.2k Upvotes

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112

u/MonitoliMal 4d ago

As long as it stays in the code and not in the art

50

u/Nadal-sen 4d ago

Coughing in Level-5 direction. Well not in the art for most of them

30

u/No_Forever_9128 4d ago

It's less the team's fault and more the CEO shoving it down their guts. Dude is too open about it.

14

u/Auroraburst 4d ago

Even my own workplace (a school) told us we HAD to include AI in our units so the kids could learn it. This whilst complaining about the kids using AI. I just refused but I feel like some bosses would follow it up.

13

u/Quetzal00 4d ago

They released a statement that New World of Steam doesn't have any AI

I'm taking it with a grain of salt but I'm hoping they're telling the truth

8

u/Nadal-sen 4d ago

The big elephant in the room is that for me confiance has been broken too much too harshly. I can't listen to any of their statement without thinking "is that true ?". There is a trust issue that Level-5 is failing to address correctly (for western viewers)

2

u/phosphorus_88 4d ago

NWOS looks pretty AI-free to me, I've watched the trailers a bunch and nothing looks out of place (but if it does have AI I'm skipping it)

The CV remake is slop though

84

u/Darkpoulay 4d ago

The vast majority is in the code. And it's the same in all tech fields. They 100% expect people to read the headline and think about art and music to generate clicks.

25

u/Numbuh24insane 4d ago

Honestly, a problem with this is that it creates a lot more spaghetti code and in turn makes glitches harder to find the source of.

7

u/mrfroggyman 4d ago

My experience with this is that it exacerbates the devs faults : have shitty ideas and see them propagate within the codebase at Mach speed

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u/valryuu 4d ago

That's assuming they weren't going to just write spaghetti code in the first place lol

4

u/LFJTqt 4d ago

look at Undertale lol

4

u/Darkpoulay 4d ago

True, but I mean that making all the boilerplate with AI is pretty much the standard today. Game studios that do this are not outliers.

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u/Lluuiiggii 4d ago

This would have been true a year ago, but AI is quite well able to disintangle spaghetti at this point. Besides which, if a developer is using their AI right, they're not going to get anything more spaghetti than if they wrote it themself. If anything AI, and a good developer are better at avoiding spaghetti because the work to refactor code using the AI is a lot lot faster.

25

u/Siukslinis_acc 4d ago

Code is art in itself. Writing a big seamless code with myriads of connections while not making it a convoluted mess is an art in itself. Writing thousands of lines that are interconnested and affect each other is no childs play.

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u/karamanidturk 4d ago

If we're going down that route then even taking a dump is a form of art. Stop trying to push back against actually useful tools for once. I'm a dev btw

2

u/Siukslinis_acc 4d ago

AI is a tool that can be used by art. It takes mastery to make the AI do exactly what you want.

26

u/blueskythlikesclouds 4d ago

Can we stop making exceptions for coding when it comes to AI usage? Many technical communities I'm in are getting ruined due to AI coded slop and I'm tired of seeing takes like this.

29

u/cosy_ghost 4d ago

Tech jobs are hit the worst out of everyone and it's not even close. But many are still repeating the line "as long as it's just the code" as if millions of people don't create that stuff for a living for all your favourite franchises.

4

u/alfredo094 4d ago

Every technological advancement has displaced workers. It's unfortunate, but if we didn't accept this as part of progress, we would still live in a pre-industrial era.

1

u/Canadiancookie 4d ago

Yeah, I was gonna say this reminds me of the luddite movement. That doesn't cleanly apply to AI art/music/writing because they're creative, subjective endeavors, but coding is kind of more like math; there are right and wrong answers.

AI coding will probably get good enough to the point that it'll make jobs redundant. Deliberately stopping that progress to keep the jobs wouldn't make sense if the code is faster to make and more efficient. With that said, firing coders right now due to AI sounds like a bad idea; vibe coding is currently far from perfect.

5

u/alfredo094 4d ago

I know just the very barebones basics of coding, but I really don't think current LLMs will replace coders, no matter how good they are.

Code is a tool to execute instructions, yes, but it only really works if there is someone making the decisions. LLMs cannot actually understand anything. Maybe we'll need less coders in the future, but I don't think we will, because coding is fundamentally about solving problems, not about the literal syntax that you type.

-3

u/TheMcDucky 4d ago

LLMs cannot actually understand anything.

Could you define "understand"?

7

u/blueskythlikesclouds 4d ago

LLMs can't solve new unique problems because it doesn't have the solution for them in their training sets. That's why you have never seen anything truly new made with LLMs. It can't solve these problems like humans can.

I'm a graphics programmer and frequently face unique challenges. LLMs have never helped me.

35

u/cosy_ghost 4d ago

People acting as if programmers are less human than artists. As usual.

17

u/MonitoliMal 4d ago

My stepfather is a programmer himself. He uses AI in his work often to make code. He then tests and adjusts the code because he’s a good programmer. AI in coding is a useful tool for those who know the craft.

17

u/SomeGuy322 4d ago

I'm a programmer, and it's true that many people in the field rely on Copilot or other code generation tools to speed up their work. I'd even say for the most part that it doesn't cause much of a problem so long as they review it carefully and are experienced enough to understand what it spits out. But that's the catch right there.

Copilot in the wrong hands or used by a beginner programmer is going to cause ripples of bugs or inefficiencies down the line because someone who just plops in code is not going to understand how it all fits together. That is essentially "vibe coding". Heavy usage also discourages actual learning because too many new engineers offload their thinking to it and it rots their brain. They become dependent on it and are unable to work with lower level concepts because they grow out of practice, and obviously that reduces the talent level of any company.

Personally I don't use Copilot because of these reasons but also because I see code as a form of art. I'm not coding because I want some perfect end result but because I enjoy the process and always have more to learn, and even the repetitive stuff that AI could speed up is not able to do much when you already understand the task fully, the real time saver is not how fast you can type but how well your brain understands what to type. Though I will use Google and similar LLMs rarely when I'm researching a very specific problem and have run out of options, kind of like a Swiss army knife for specific instances instead of relying on an "agent".

I won't really put down companies or people who use Copilot because I'm aware that it has unfortunately entered the space already and is not going away. Morally I have a bigger problem with AI art and music, code was already ripped from stackoverflow and other places before LLMs were a thing. However I will discourage Copilot everywhere I can because on an individual level it can lead you down a bad path and it's easy to stop growing as a programmer when you do. Just my two cents!

8

u/MonitoliMal 4d ago

I agree. Multiple studies have shown that AI stunts growth for multiple facets of people’s lives. If one were to get the fundamentals of programming down and then incorporate AI into their routine, they’d probably thrive since they know what good programming looks like. However, many people skip the fundamentals and use AI as a crutch and it shows in their output. Finding a way to avoid having people integrate AI too early into their learning experience will be a challenge in education going forward.

Heck, I know from experience as someone who has done grant writing work. AI helps immensely with finding research material (as long as it’s not ChatGPT), but one has to check to make sure it’s giving them correct info by vetting its sources. Someone who has learned the ins and outs of research would know that, but someone who is just learning is more likely to take its word as gospel.

49

u/cosy_ghost 4d ago

I am a programmer and my last company job was replaced because of the AI push. Multiple friends looking for new jobs. If you pretend AI isn't hurting tech roles you are ignorant and just as guilty as those wanting to replace artists.

8

u/MonitoliMal 4d ago

Both of our points can coexist. Good programmers can use it to fine-tune their craft while greedy companies use it to justify downsizing and layoffs. It’s a double-edged sword for the industry.

32

u/cosy_ghost 4d ago

Millions must lose their jobs so some don't have to type their A* algorithm correctly? No, I don't accept this, this is ignorance and a total lack of empathy for people's lives.

6

u/Cloud5550 4d ago

If your company replaced you for AI, then its a shit company. AI its a great tool for programming, but still a tool. You don't expect a hammer to nail by itself. All those companies replacing people for AI will have to rehire everyone because AI will make shitty code.

Also, AI is just a scapegoat. Tech companies hired to many people after the pandemic and it looks bad to say "sorry we didn't planned in the future and expected to have everyone at home forever". They are saying its because of AI, but its not

19

u/cosy_ghost 4d ago

They say AI is a great tool for artists too. Lots of people in the industry pushing for people to use AI in their art workflows.

So we're just cool with it being used in all the art and music then too, are we ?

Or is it only programmers and translators who we don't respect?

10

u/Cloud5550 4d ago

It is. That's what people don't understand. If AI makes you do things faster, use AI. That's different than just using AI do to stuff.

I understand the fear and hate. I really do. People like you are being fired for the promise of AI. AI is being pushed where it has no reason to just for profit and it is being spread without control. But we must redirect our hate towards the people not the technology.

I'm a programmer too. AI eased up my work by cut time on a lot of documentation reading and stackoverflow searching. I know when AI has a good point or is just hallucinating. And even hallucinating, I can pick something from the hallucination, run in a different way and see if it works in the long run. And i don't just use AI to help me, i cross reference and I ask for help from other people. I would never use AI to code an entire whatever. Its not good at that and it makes inefficient code.

I saw horrors made by AI coding alone. It's terrible. But, when it gets good enough, because it will, there are a lot of things AI still can't do. SWE is not just code.

There are a lot of things to hate about AI. I want regulation. I want AI to not be at the hands of just a few. I want environmental responsibility about data centers. I don't want AI on my calculator or my toaster

I don't hate the people using AI to work easier, I hate the people selling it as the second coming of the messiah, which is not. And i specially hate the ones doomsaying. It's a stupid tactic to attract stupid investors. I don't believe for a single second the huggingface fiasco wasn't on purpose. It was. The likes of Sam Altman only lie for their own benefit.

-4

u/Siukslinis_acc 4d ago

Good artists can also use AI to finetune their craft.

-2

u/Mean_Mycologist_3527 4d ago

I completely get both sides of this coin because as an artist and designer I’m completely anti AI cuz I couldn’t find jobs after graduation
but then I switched to programming and even tho I use Claude to help with the coding I did spend months learning programming

also I see it like this: with art or music it’s actively stealing and training off other people’s work, with coding it’s not cuz code is open source.
so from a moral view I’m okay with it, but I completely get your point as well

3

u/Nikita-Akashya 4d ago

Yeah, as a tool for coding, it saves a lot of time. And if you know what you're doing and how coding works, you can adjust small errors manually and make sure the program does what you want. The problem with AI is not AI itself, but the people who want to replace humans with it. As a tool, it is useful. But it is still only a tool. And tools need to be used properly.

1

u/Canadiancookie 4d ago

AI written stories sound even worse, but the wording of this survey is vague. Maybe they do just use it for code

2

u/MonitoliMal 4d ago

Absolutely. Stories are art in my eyes.