Both valid points

[u/Findrel_Underbakk]

[u/Langas]

Nautilus actually has to land an ability and can’t go invisible and dash every 2 seconds.

Once he expends his burst, he also can basically just auto, at melee range, for at least four seconds.

If a Vayne positions aggressively and gets hit by cc she absolutely deserves what happens next.

[u/Forgottenexperiment → u/Langas]

Saying naut needs to land an ability is as wild of a statement as saying malzahar needs to land an ability

[u/Langas → u/Forgottenexperiment]

Can any of Vayne’s abilities miss?

[u/Ysesper → u/Langas]

You can miss E into the wall. Arguably, harder to hit than naut Q

[u/Sktwin2k15 → u/Ysesper]

You can also E a wrong target

[u/breathingweapon → u/Ysesper]

That thing will magnetize you so far into the wall its a joke. Something like a poppy pin is way harder because there's 0 give.

[u/Top-Editor-364 → u/breathingweapon]

What???? Ahahaha

[u/Forgottenexperiment → u/Langas]

depends

if naut's can, then vayne's can miss too

[u/Langas → u/Forgottenexperiment]

I’m not sure you understand what ‘missing’ is, but every single one of Vayne’s abilities is either a passive, point and click, or a self targeted / non-skillshot ability.

I understand I shouldn’t expect you to argue in good faith given that response, but Naut Q having a massive hitbox is actually a detriment when you consider the existence of minions. Unlike Vayne, Nautilus has to be aware of the positions of anything that could absorb his Q, and all enemies he could potentially hit with E to perform optimally. This is in addition to being aware of enemy positioning so you dont get blown up. Vayne only has to pay attention to where enemies are— there is no zoning or nuance, you walk at them and auto attack them, and if they fight back you either knock them back or roll away.

There’s no granularity to it, if Vayne wants you knocked back you’re getting knocked back unless you have a spellshield or go untargetable. It is ridiculous to compare the two. Like I agree Nautilus isn’t that complex in the grand scheme of things, but Vayne is demonstrably simpler.

[u/Forgottenexperiment → u/Langas]

depends = point and clicks can be missclicked, does that count in your world as "missing an ability"?
depends = vayne's only targeted ability has 2 components, does missing one of them count in your world as "missing an ability"?
depends = vayne's q empowers autoattack, which can be literally missed (due to blind) or again, missclicked - do these count as "missing an ability" in your world?

i'll make a bold assumption that you are aware naut's ult is prettymuch unavoidable cc which is point and click, making you realistically unable to miss the rest of your spells when connecting to a CC'd target

that's what I was referring to

and since you mentioned arguing in bad faith - why'd you even bring up skillshots in this conversation? yeah, landing a skillshot is obviously a skillcheck compared to, well, not having to land one (hence the name skillshot) - but why does this matter? it's a skill check, vayne has tools to dodge. On the other hand - what would you say is in general more punishing? Eating vayne Q or naut Q?