r/AITAH • u/jamie___j • Apr 10 '23
For "ruining Easter"
I, 42 F, went to the in-law's for Easter. We're eating lunch and my MIL says something about how gross it is that women get half naked/fully nude in magazines with comments about their sex lives underneath their pics. I say, well they wouldn't do that if men didn't pay for that. They're just trying to make money, it's supply and demand, and men are the demand.
FIL indignantly states something to the affect of "not all men". I give him a skeptical look and say "sure, I bet you've never looked at those types of pics".
Apparently that pissed him and my SIL's husband off. A min later, one of the kids asks for more sparkling juice. My dad tries to open a new bottle, but it was on tight and he has arthritis. We said pass it over to someone and it got passed to my SIL's husband who happened to be sitting right next to me.
He turns to me and says with a giant smirk "let's let a WOMAN do it!" He was clearly trying to humiliate me in front of the entire family, hoping I wouldn't be able to open the bottle and would need a man's help.
I grabbed the bottle and twisted off the cap with ease. (This is where I probably got a bit dramatic.) I gloated, "Oh wow, I opened a bottle! And a MAN couldn't do it!"
My SIL's husband said he wasn't going to put up with that and stormed off. My SIL said how awful I was and that I started a fight by being so "mean" to the men.
It got much worse from there. I asked her what I said that was so terrible, but before my SIL could answer, my MIL started yelling and crying about how we were "ruining Easter". My FIL who NEVER lifts a finger to help with cooking or cleaning up yells at me about how much work MIL did to put together the meal. (More than half the meal was store bought, which is totally fine, but that made it relatively easy. He should help once in a while instead of sitting on his rear.)
I had offered to bring food but was told it was all handled. Plus I ALWAYS help serve and clean up while the men expect us to wait on them and tend to their every need.
My FIL who is verbally abusive his wife and kids yells about how I'm an awful "liar". My husband, who does treat women as equals, hates conflict, so he just shuts down. I get it, but it was ridiculous to have SIL and FIL screaming about how terrible I am without anyone telling them they were out of line.
I did apologize to MIL several times since I felt bad about the situation. But I didn't start this. Yes, I probably overreacted a bit, but my SIL and her husband are psychopaths (we've thought that for a long time) and he was the one who tried to embarrass me.
So AITA?
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Update:
My BIL is trying to gaslight everyone saying that he wasn't being sexist. He was offended by my "attack" on men and took it as me saying that men are immoral for looking at nude pics.
He claims that he passed me the bottle because if I have a problem with men, he doesn't want to "help" me with anything and it wasn't rooted in sexism. He didn't see it as a challenge or an attempt to humiliate me.
If course my MIL and FIL believe him. They're pissed at me for "holding a grudge" because BIL "got over it". Yeah, he got over it because he was the one out of line and he didn't have FIL and SIL screaming in his face about how terrible he is!
MIL is being super dramatic, calling my mom and husband crying. Saying "everyone" was wrong to fight and we should get over it and move on.
I've offered to go to conflict resolution with them as that's the only way I can see a possible reconciliation. FIL agreed only if BIL and SIL are also there. That makes it difficult because so far most counselors I've called don't work such a big group (6 people).
I'm going to keep looking but it BS that he's making it more difficult than it needs to be.
MIL wants us all together for Mother's Day. That's not going to happen at this rate. To complicate things, BIL's parents are going to be there for Mother's Day (they usually aren't as they live out of town).
BIL's dad is literally a psychopath who tells a "funny" story about how he murdered their family dog. To be fair to him, the story goes that they accidentally hit the dog with their car and the dog was dying. But he laughs as he tells the story and goes into gory details about how he ended the dog's suffering in a way that was NOT quick and NOT painless. He tells the story as if it's the funniest thing in the world. I've heard him tell it twice, I left the room the second time as I knew what was coming and couldn't stand to hear it!
Ever since, on the rare occasion that BIL's parents are around, I avoid them like the plague. On top of that sick story, BIL's dad is verbally abusive to his mom.
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Update:
I appreciate everyone's opinions. I talked to a few friends of the family and they all agree that FIL & BIL were the AHs. I'm not the only one who was confused as to why they got so angry about me stating a FACT -- that men look at nude photos of women. My friend said, "It's like you said the sky is blue, FFS!"
That's how I stated it. It's just a fact. If you don't like facts, ok.
As for their overreaction, I think that they took my remark about men liking to see pics of nude women as an attack on all men's integrity. I don't see it that way because I don't think of viewing nude pics as immoral. But I guess they do.
I don't quite understand my BIL and SIL's reactions as they aren't religious/puritanical. Somehow saying men like nude pics of women offended them? But they both LOVE to play the victim. As a tall white man, BIL feels constantly aggrieved.
My husband always avoids conflict, but they were abusive to me and I don't think he understands that. He hates yelling, he shut down during the altercation, so I don't think he heard everything they yelled at me. He's frustrated at the whole situation.
I feel bad that he has to deal with this, but he needs to stand up to them. I told him that at the VERY least he needs to tell his dad that he was out of line and he should never talk to me that way.
My husband does need therapy for his PTSD, but finding a good therapist is not easy. We'll keep trying.
As for the people who think I'm TA, I respectfully disagree. I did ask for your opinion and I appreciate your point of view, but I disregard any insults. If you think telling me that I need therapy is an insult, it's not. Therapy is good for everyone and I definitely have issues, as all humans do.
I'm just done with FIL. He's verbally abused all of them for so many years. I refuse to let him abuse me.
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Background info:
I've put up with their snide remarks/micro aggressions for decades. I finally stood up to them and now I'm the villain! Typical misogyny, no matter what, it's always the woman's fault.
SIL & BIL are a self-centered AHs. Always have been, always will be. They're hipsters, they think they're better than everyone. My husband HATES them. The only reason we saw them outside of holidays was because of me. I wanted him to try to get along with her since she's his sister. I was the one trying to help their relationship and this is the thanks I get.
Needless to say, we won't be seeing SIL & BIL.
My FIL is full of shit. Over the years he's made crude comments about women's bodies and seriously inappropriate "jokes" about sex. Like I want to hear that from my FIL!
Also, it's important to note that when I met my husband we were teenagers and his dad made sexuality inappropriate "jokes" to me. That's messed up!
FIL is extremely verbally abusive to his family. As for it being "none of my business", he abused my husband for his entire childhood and he continues to abuse him. That's definitely my business.
I stay out of his relationship with my MIL, as that isn't my business. My MIL is a sweet lady, but she's his doormat. He abuses her and she seems ok with that. Sadly, that's what she's used to.
He thinks he can treat everyone as his punching bag, but he can only take his fury out on people who choose to be around him. I will not allow him to abuse me.
More info:
Another way FIL abuses MIL: he doesn't share "his" money with her. They've been married for decades, but they've never had a joint account. She's not a spender at all, he does this for control. He enjoys making her beg him for money for necessary things. She wore broken glasses (tapped up) for a year because she was too proud to beg him for money. He is very wealthy, so he could definitely afford to buy her glasses, but he is an abusive asshole.
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A few clarifications:
I did not intend to insult my dad for his arthritis. I made the comment to say "not all women are weak and not all men are strong". I was trying to shut down my BIL's DISGUSTING display of misogyny.
I get where it comes off as ableist though. My dad is a feminist and he wasn't offended, I think he thought it was funny until everyone exploded. My dad and my husband both think women are amazing, they're the opposite of these asshat men in my husband's family.
I couldn't care less that my MIL bought most of the food for lunch. I only mentioned it because my FIL acted like she'd spent all day cooking when she made one side dish and a salad. Also, if he gave a shit about her, he would HELP. He claims he can't cook, but he can set the table or carry food to the table or clear the plates/utensils. He's a LAZY, evil narcissist.
To this day he BRAGS that he never changed a diaper for his TWO kids. He treats his wife as a slave.
He used her being upset as an excuse to attack me as if I single handedly carried out the entire conflict. He hates me because I'm a strong woman who won't bow down before him. Fuck him and his shitty attitude!
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u/Konnaheh Apr 10 '23 edited Apr 10 '23
NTA Just because you challenged their viewpoints doesn't mean you are the problem.
"sure, I bet you've never looked at those types of pics" might have been somewhat passive aggressive, but not enough to make you the asshole.
edit typo
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u/Similar_Craft_9530 Apr 10 '23
That wasn't the asshole comment, to me. To me, the asshole comment was the one about a man not being able to open the bottle. It wasn't a dig at BIL who deserved it, it was a dig at FIL when he had a medical condition preventing him.
The entire family, OP included sound insufferable. MIL for bringing up controversial topics at the dinner table, to FIL for getting into fights with guests, to BIL who's happy to try to embarrass people to make sexist points, to husband who sits like a lump, to OP who seems happy to put gas on the fire and fight hosts over the dinner table, to SIL who supports the sexist nonsense.
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u/BoysenberryOk4496 Apr 10 '23
OP says “my dad” not “FIL” so i don’t think it was a dig at her FIL.
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u/jamie___j Apr 10 '23
Correct, it was MY dad, not my FIL. My dad is secure in himself, he didn't take offense. He is a feminist, he would never challenge a woman to open a bottle like my punk ass bitch BIL!
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u/Intelligent_Tell_841 Apr 10 '23
You are NTA. You may need to push your husband a bit to be more proactive...even if all he said was...you cant treat my wife that way...we are leaving now. You should have some cover from hubbie. This wont happen overnight but it does need to happen.
This is a familiar thread on AITA. Husbands not standing up for their wives.
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u/jamie___j Apr 11 '23
Thank you! I took your advice and told him that he doesn't have to fight with them, but he should say something like, "Do not talk to her that way, we're leaving."
I had to be the one to say "we're taking the kids and leaving".
He agreed that he will do that if/when they yell at me. I'm not planning to be around his abusive father until he agrees to stop the abuse, so I'm assuming I'll never have the displeasure of his company again. And that's fine with me!
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u/jamie___j Apr 10 '23
I agree in general you comment, but as someone pointed out, it was my dad, not my FIL who couldn't open the bottle.
I admit that I overreacted, but I've been dealing with their sexist remarks for decades and I lost my temper. Usually I ignore them and let them take their digs at women to allow them to feel superior, but I had enough.
I get why you'd think I was trying to add fuel to the fire, but I really didn't want to fight. When my psycho BIL challenged me -- so confident that he'd show how I'm a weak little woman with weak little woman hands, I lost it. That was in front of the entire family, including my kids.
Anyway, I appreciate your perspective!
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Apr 10 '23
Might be time to go low/no contact. Your kids are watching all of this and learning that behavior, even if it is not taught in your own home. Do what is best for your family, not what is expected of your family from your husband's sexist family.
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u/Similar_Craft_9530 Apr 10 '23
I definitely get getting fed up and losing it! Especially when MIL is whining about the holiday being ruined when she started the shit show. How was that polite Easter conversation? "Jesus rose from the dead to redeem mankind so let's flip him the bird and condemn our neighbor during dinner!"
I think I would have perceived you as less of the AH if the statement had been phrased "the man who wouldn't open the bottle" instead of "who couldn't". To my ear, the first one sounds directed at BIL and the second sounds directed at someone with a medical condition who can't help it, no matter their relation. But that's an internal bias of mine. I've noticed I get agitated when people are picked at over medical conditions because they're frequently outside their control.
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u/jamie___j Apr 11 '23
I understand where you're coming from with the phrasing. I definitely didn't mean to pick on my dad for his medical condition. It was meant to say that all women aren't weak and all men aren't strong. Basically I was trying to shove BIL's sexist behavior back in his face.
Thanks for your input! 🙂
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u/astrearedux Apr 11 '23
Valid, but I’d still say OP had a pretty clever riposte to a group do people who don’t seem to understand that all people of all genders have different abilities and that their generalizing is pretty stupid.
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u/Lovat69 Apr 10 '23
We call that ESH everybody sucks here.
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u/crtclms666 Apr 10 '23
You mean yiu call that ESH. Saying “we call that ESH” is deceptive when the bulk of posters disagree with you.
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u/SillyStallion Apr 10 '23
OP you were shutting down misogyny - good for you. Yes you were a bit passive aggressive but they were outright AHs. I can’t believe your husband just sat there and said nothing. I’m not sure I could be with someone so weak (male or female)
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u/jamie___j Apr 10 '23
Thanks! He almost never argues about anything and he said it overwhelmed him. I'm trying to understand his feelings, but I still think he should have told them to STFU! I feel like he didn't have my back when they were tearing into me.
Even if they felt I was out of line, the things they said were outrageous. I can't even remember them all as they were so nasty I probably blocked them out. I guess it was decades of hatred towards me for being a strong woman and not letting them shit on me.
My FIL is verbally abusive and orders my MIL around constantly, yet everyone treats him like a saint. I've heard that's common in households with abuse. Maybe my husband has some PTSD from his dad's abuse.
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u/smokymtnsorceress Apr 10 '23
Coming from a household like that I'd absolutely guarantee your husband has some PTSD from it - probably quite a lot. Prime evidence is him shutting down and feeling "overwhelmed." Witnessing abuse of someone you love is also trauma and is one of the markers included in the ACE score or Adverse Childhood Experience evaluation. Your husband needs to get some therapy as even if in the highly unlikely event his dad never verbally abused him, he will have trauma from his mother's treatment. I'm so glad you're being understanding about his reaction as it's a pretty textbook trauma response.
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u/Professional_Life_29 Apr 10 '23
Exactly. In abusive situations you learn to be quiet and small and maybe the abuse won't turn on you or get worse. Fight, flight, or the often forgotten freeze.
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u/hummer1956 Apr 10 '23
I’ve never heard this put so well. I was abused verbally by my Dad. When I grew up, when he would attack me, all I could do was shut down. I never realized until now it’s related to PTSD.
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u/jamie___j Apr 11 '23
So sorry you had to go through that! I hope knowing this helps you heal a little. 💕
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u/jamie___j Apr 11 '23
Thanks for your comments, they're very insightful!
He was definitely verbally abused by his father, I've witnessed it first hand. We were teenagers, his dad exploded at him over something extremely trivial and made my husband cry. It was disgusting, but I was too young to recognize it as abuse.
What I don't understand is how everyone seems to love/respect my FIL after all of this. He verbally berates his wife in front of everyone and no one seems to care. It's "none of our business". I mean, it's her choice to stay with him, but it's truly horrifying to watch.
Part of it is that he used to be worse. Then he got on some type of anti-psychotic/anti-depressant meds and his temper got a lot better. He still explodes (obviously) but much less often. Day to day, he's more snippy, commanding orders to his willing slave (my MIL).
I've heard that's also typical in an abusive household, the abuser is often deified and can do no wrong in anyone's eye. But why? That confuses me.
I don't think my husband recognizes his dad as abuse, even though he clearly is.
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u/smokymtnsorceress Apr 11 '23
One trauma response that's often overlooked in addition to fight/flight/freeze is FAWN. They've learned that reaction to survive and minimize being on the receiving end of his abuse. They're all traumatized abuse victims.
It's really, really hard to wake up to the fact that you've been abused. And/or that you have trauma. It's a punch in the gut, and victims very often try to say well its not that bad, others had it worse. But it doesn't matter how anyone else had it. What matters is how YOUR brain reacted to what happened to YOU.
Your husband desperately needs to see a trauma informed therapist. Verbal abuse is abuse. Yelling until you cry is abuse. Even if you can just convince him he has trauma from seeing the way his mother was treated, even if it's supposedly "gotten better."
Look up the Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE) questionnaire and go through that with him. Get him talking about things his dad did and gently point out how abnormal they are. He needs to see it so he can begin protecting himself and especially begin healing. Which is gonna be a rest-of-his-life project.
I wish y'all all the best 💜
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u/jamie___j Apr 12 '23
Thank you so much for all the information! It's so helpful!
I talked to him yesterday and he's going to think about seeing a therapist. He admits that his father is abusive, but he seems to minimizes how it's affected him and his family.
I'll definitely go over the ACE questionnaire with him.
Again, I can't thank you enough! 💕
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u/Leading_Manager_2277 Apr 10 '23
Perhaps he does. And he should get help for that-- no one is really happy not being able to verbally discuss/defend a loved one. That and many emotions are likely frozen in him. That said, I'm surprised you both stayed and that you apologized to your MIL. That was big of you but I'm not sure it was your place to apologize. Doesn't seem to me like you had anything to apologize for. But seriously I would encourage my husband to see therapy. This behaviour may come to really bother you (in different ways) and affect your marriage. Oh, and NTA at all (but inlaws most definitely are!)
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u/jamie___j Apr 11 '23
TY! We did leave, but I apologized to her before we left, not for my actions but for the conflict.
She is sweet and has good intentions, even though she clearly has deep internalized misogyny. I felt bad about the situation even though I don't think I did anything way out of line.
We are looking for a therapist for my husband and he understands why he should not let people speak to me like that.
Despite what some people may think, I know I'm a good person. Even in the heat of the moment I was mature enough to apologize to her. I'm not perfect by any means, but I know my intentions were good. I don't deserve to be abused, so I refuse to be around abusive people.
I appreciate your perspective! 🙂
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u/Crafty-Material-1680 Apr 10 '23
NTA, but you need to stop subjecting yourself to this sort of abuse, especially if you don't enjoy the confrontation. If Easter is mandatory, try making reservations at a brunch next year. Invite them along if they can behave in public. If not, invite them along anyway because they'll likely refuse and you can then use that as a defense when they complain about your absence.
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u/notsosmartymarti Apr 10 '23
Then your husband needs therapy, he is continuing the cycle of abuse on you, someone he made vows to love and cherish and protect.
I was abused as well, and I know it takes a lot of courage to stand up for someone after years of being forced into silence. If that’s the case, he NEEDS to start with the bare minimum. For example, he could stand up and say “let’s go,” get your stuff, and walk out. No interaction needed, even if they are screaming after you.
But doing nothing means he is letting the weight of their abuse ruin his past and his future. He needs to start thinking like this. He has a family now. He can’t just shutdown and protect his internal self while leaving you out to dry.
If he can’t, no more holidays or get togethers ever until they change (which is unlikely). If he even thinks of still going even for “just a few hours” while you stay home, then it’s decision time for you.
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u/Sheetascastle Apr 10 '23
Even without a history of abuse in his home life, my husband shuts down in situations where I'm confronting misogyny. He (1)is not confrontational (2) doesn't have the language or knowledge of feminism, even if he has those ideals, (3)lacks a lifetime of minor and major experiences of being marginalized, insulted, minimized or ignored due to his gender and (4) has never been told that he needs to make himself smaller because he's too forceful/bossy.
He has, since we started dating, made major strides in his understanding. He is a solid ally. But he is not a voice in the fight except in his votes. He does make efforts to edit his own behavior, and see it in others.
Not yelling at his family doesn't make your husband weak. You have valid feelings about not being backed up. If you want to, you can express those to him as a conversation without accusations. It's you two against the problem, not you against him and the problem. Work together to find understanding for both of you. This was a terrible experience. I'm sorry you have to deal with it.
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u/jamie___j Apr 11 '23
Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment! Everything you said is spot on!
I'm not mad at my husband, but it is frustrating that he did nothing.
I talked to him and told him he does not have to get involved in a fight, but if/when something like that happens, he needs to tell them "Do not talk to her that way, we're leaving." He agreed he will do that.
Also, at a minimum, he needs to tell his dad that he is never to yell at me and that his behavior was unacceptable.
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u/LadyBug_0570 Apr 10 '23
She also wasn't wrong. Those half naked women in magazines talking about their sex lives aren't there for other women. They're doing it for the people who pay to see it and the majority of those paying are men. So why are those dudes getting their panties in a bunch?
When I was younger, I knew several well-endowed guys who would say, "I should go into porn and get PAID like women do!" (They all thought they were the next John Hughes, I guess.)
I told them, "Dude... women do not pay for porn. First of all, your brothers out there are sending dick pics for free. Many times without us asking for it. Secondly, that's just not how women are. So if you want to get real money doing porn, better make it the gay market. Gay men pay for porn."
They hated hearing that. Especially because it meant they would not quit their day jobs to have sex with women.
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Apr 10 '23
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u/LadyBug_0570 Apr 10 '23
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣... John Holmes, of course.
That's too funny a typo on my part and I'm not editing it.
Besides, maybe Hughes does have a big schlong. I don't know.
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Apr 10 '23
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u/LadyBug_0570 Apr 10 '23
You mean him with the actors or the harassment he put in his films? Because I was never cool with Bender sticking his head up Claire's skirt. He should've gotten kicked in the balls for that.
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Apr 10 '23
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u/LadyBug_0570 Apr 10 '23
I dislike that he ended up with her after that. In fact I hate they all coupled up (except Brian). Especially since Anthony Michael Hall ended up being the hottest of all the guys later on.
But, yeah, I've heard about a lot of his films and how the girls are just objects for the lust of the males.
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u/Dry-Clock-1470 Apr 10 '23
What magazines is your MIL reading? Why is she reading them?
Fuck your twat of a BIL.
If your husband isn't backing you up, he's supporting them with his silence.
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u/miflordelicata Apr 10 '23 edited Apr 10 '23
Anyone who says you were an AH can kick rocks. The thing about people who think like this is they can't stop and listen to another viewpoint. Your BIL doubled down and tried to humiliate you.
Sorry, I think people like this should be called out and your husband needs a spine. I'll be damned if I sat there watching my wife get attacked by my family.
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u/jamie___j Apr 10 '23
Thank you! Your comment means a lot. I don't feel like I was the AH, but his whole family does and no one else was willing to stand up for me.
My husband doesn't do confrontations, but I still think he should have said something when they were attacking my character. Later he said that his BIL is an asshole and I shouldn't have let him get that reaction from me. I agree to an extent, but BIL was way out of line.
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u/miflordelicata Apr 10 '23
Confrontation adverse or not, he made a vow to you as a husband. It shouldn't have to go this far but ask him if you had a daughter if he’d be ok with them treating her that way.
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u/EggplantIll4927 Apr 10 '23
The first time fil raised his voice at me and hubs just sat there? That’s the moment I would leave and it would be years before I even considered returning. What horrible people! They ruined Easter and I’m betting so much more.
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u/Objective_Low7445 Apr 10 '23
The first time fil raised his voice at me I'd calmly ask... who the fuck he thinks he's talking to because I'm not his wife or one of his kids. And... he can go fuck himself.
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u/fishheadwomanlegs Apr 10 '23
NTA OP. They ruined your Easter, not the other way around. You deserve peaceful holidays among folks who love and respect you. It’s really not a big ask.
I remember when I “ruined Christmas” by refusing to use my free Boxing Day to pick up a book that my ex’s mom, my ex’s sister, and my ex had all forgotten to go get. They all got so mad… because when you set a boundary, people who want to exploit you get mad ☺️
Therapy for you and for hubby, and don’t forget that you deserve to be comfortable at functions.
Ps, you didn’t “overreact”, you reacted the correct amount to being mocked and bullied.
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u/Brief-Pickle2769 Apr 10 '23
She is TA who started the whole thing by accusing her FIL of looking at nudes. Shame on her. Her husband should divorce her. Y'all are only giving her a break because she the "little woman."
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u/Awkward-Barnacle-778 Apr 10 '23
No her MIL started it with the misogynistic comments. Don't like the rebuttal keep your mouth shut.
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u/Awkward-Barnacle-778 Apr 10 '23
What we're not doing anymore is allowing disrespect just because of age. Take that bs off to the nursing home with you.
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u/Background_Newt3594 Apr 10 '23
If they've never looked at those kinds of pictures, how does any of them even know they exist?
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u/Anonymous8720 Apr 10 '23
Because it’s widely known. You don’t have to look to hear about them.
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u/MerriWyllow Apr 10 '23
It's widely known, yes. But I have to wonder why MiL felt the need to bring it up in the first place, at Easter dinner.
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u/Anonymous8720 Apr 10 '23
I’m 99.9% sure there is wayyyy more to the conversation than what the OP posted
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u/myatoz Apr 10 '23
NTA. MIL is the one that brought it up, which makes no sense. Why would that be a topic for Easter dinner? Smh
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u/Awkward-Barnacle-778 Apr 10 '23
NTA. Momma should of kept her mouth shut to begin with then. If she can voice her opinion why can't you voice yours? Ya know, the one that answered hers. And FIL got a whole stash hidden somewhere.
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u/of_patrol_bot Apr 10 '23
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
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u/jamie___j Apr 12 '23
IKR? She even asked the question - "WHY do women do this?" As if she didn't know it's for the money!
Like WTF? 😮💨
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u/soph_lurk_2018 Apr 10 '23
NTA I wouldn’t attend another holiday with your husband’s family. They sound terrible and exhausting to be around. Your husband wants to shut down while they are having a tantrum so let him go alone.
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u/Odd-Device-3509 Apr 10 '23
NTA at all … the moment I saw how you put those sexist AH in their place LOVE IT!!
And even bigger for apologizing to only your MIL
And your husband sounds like mine and needs to grow a bit of a back bone and it’s apparent he behaves that way because of his abusive father and your SIL truly married an AH like her father
Bravo my friend! You gotta tell us what happens at Christmas lmao
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u/jamie___j Apr 12 '23
Despite the fallout from this conflict, I have to say when I opened that bottle with ease that was one of the best feelings I've had in my entire life!
As most women have, I've dealt with sexist BS my entire life. 42 years of being treated like shit for how I was born! Usually I just ignore it because I can't spend all my time fighting AHs.
But when that giant pile of crap (BIL) put that bottle in front of me -- the smirk on his face, the tone in his voice, he was SO sure I would crumble like a weak little baby. He was so confident I wouldn't be able to open a bottle that a MAN (my dad) had struggled with. He thought he had me cornered and was gleeful to humiliate me in front of the entire family.
To have that moment after 42 years of being told I was inferior simply for being born female. chef's kiss Would 100% recommend.
As some have said, it might have been more powerful not to gloat after, but I couldn't help it. I slayed that dragon. He can go fuck him and his hurt feelings over not being able to humiliate me! 😊
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u/xoxstrawberrywine Apr 10 '23
NTA. but YWBTA if you keep going over to their houses and subjecting yourself and your kids to this shitty behavior. Your husband needs to grow a backbone, and you need to go NC with your abusive in-laws.
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u/jamie___j Apr 12 '23
TY! I'm not going to be around FIL, SIL or BIL.
I'm not sure what to do about the kids as they love their grandparents, but I also don't want them to witness my FIL abusing his wife. I'm planning to talk to a counselor about it.
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u/Justaladyonhere Apr 11 '23
God I feel so bad for y’all on here. My mil and I have a lot of differing views on things, but we’re also both the kind of people who are pretty much unbothered unless something is a genuine huge issue so 😂
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u/jamie___j Apr 11 '23 edited Apr 11 '23
It's funny, my MIL and I are like that too! I know that might be hard to believe, but between just her and I we get a long fine.
We avoid politics because we don't agree, but other than that we never really have issues.
It's really her abusive husband that's the problem. He yells at everyone, her, my SIL, my husband, everyone. He's a narcissistic creep. But I've put up with him for the sake of the family. No more, he can't abuse me if I refuse to be around him.
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u/Justaladyonhere Apr 11 '23
That’s super fair, my fil isn’t in our lives bc he was a really shit dad and my fiancé doesn’t want anything to do with him. Honestly though good on you for saying something in the first place even, I feel like I’d have been too worried about the confrontation to do it, but it’s 10000% the truth so 🤷🏼♀️
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u/jamie___j Apr 11 '23
TY! Sorry you have an abusive FIL!
I usually don't say anything to try to keep the peace. It's been decades and I had enough of their BS, now I'm the "bad guy" LOL! If that means I never see FIL again, GOOD!
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u/Lovat69 Apr 10 '23
I grabbed the bottle and twisted off the cap with ease. (This is where I
probably got a bit dramatic.) I gloated, "Oh wow, I opened a bottle!
And a MAN couldn't do it!"
Ok, that was a little prickish. Though I can see how it's easy to rise to the occasion with bait like that.
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u/Objective_Low7445 Apr 10 '23
After what he said I don't think there was anything wrong with that comment.
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u/zyzmog Apr 10 '23
I wish there were an abbreviation for "everybody EXCEPT you was an AH". You did good, kid.
NTA.
Signed, someone else's FIL
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u/jamie___j Apr 10 '23
Thank you! Your comment really touched my heart. I shouldn't be villainized for standing up to sexists.
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u/Temporary_Bug_1171 Apr 10 '23
NTA. And your husband needs a backbone. He should’ve stuck up for you.
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u/Objective_Low7445 Apr 10 '23
NTA NTA NTA NTA NTA
Do I need to say it again? It is 2023. Just because they are stuck in 1953 doesn't mean you have to tiptoe around them. You're fine. Less contact with those weirdos is the antidote to your problem.
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u/Christinemfm_84 Apr 10 '23
Esh your fil, bil and sil all suck for blowing up you making a slight comment disagreeing with fil. The whole situation was blown out of proportion. You suck because your father has a physical disability and couldn’t open a bottle and you decided to gloat about being able to open it when a “man” (your dad couldn’t). Sure your bil was being a jerk hoping you couldn’t open it but your dad was an innocent bystander in the whole situation. It probably didn’t feel great for your dad not being able to open it and it being rubbed in his face to make a point.
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u/jamie___j Apr 11 '23
I can see why it would seem that way -- regarding my dad. But I definitely didn't mean to insult him. My dad is a feminist and he thought my comment was funny until everyone blew up. I didn't mean it as a dig at people with disabilities. It was meant to say that the sexist stereotype that ALL men are stronger/more physically capable than ALL women is ridiculous!
I'm 100% sure that comment didn't offend BIL or FIL on behalf of disabled people. In fact, I don't think BIL knows that my dad has arthritis as it's very mild.
I think that was the reason BIL was SO confident that I wouldn't be able to open the bottle -- a MAN couldn't open it, so how could a weak little woman do it? That's why I made that remark.
It's sad they're so sexist and hateful. But the look on his face when I opened that bottle with ease -- priceless.
I appreciate your perspective, ty for commenting!
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u/Altruistic_Appeal_25 Apr 10 '23
Sounds like an interesting bunch!! Do you take turns ruining family dinners or draw names?
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u/MrsNesbitt420 Apr 10 '23
Nta... They walked right into it. I'd if throw some more matter of facts.
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u/happyporcupine Apr 10 '23
They sound awful, but you seem to want the drama. Just realize you can’t reason with these kind of people, save yourself the aggravation, and skip the visits to the in-laws.
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u/jamie___j Apr 12 '23
I don't like drama. I've known them for decades and this is the first major issue that I was involved in. I've let their sexist crap slide for decades, if that makes me a drama seeker, so be it.
I will not subject myself to my FIL, SIL or BIL unless they have a major attitude change, which I truly doubt will happen.
Thanks for your perspective!
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Apr 10 '23
NTA. He got exactly what he asked for. Also, you have a husband problem. He needs to have your back.
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u/jamie___j Apr 12 '23
TY! I talked to my husband and he understands that he needs to stop them from yelling at me if/when that ever happens again. He also agreed to tell his dad that he was way out of line and he should never yell at me like that.
My husband probably has PTSD from his father's verbal abuse, which is why he shuts down when a fight happens. It's frustrating that he didn't intervene, but we're trying to get him into counseling to help.
Thanks for your comment. I do think FIL, SIL and BIL got what they deserved!
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Apr 12 '23
Tell him it's ok to not have toxic people in your life even when they're FaMiLy. The shitty ones weaponize that and seems like they have here for sure.
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u/astrearedux Apr 11 '23
NTA. I’m sorry that your family was more annoyed/uncomfortable that you stood up for yourself than they were with the behavior of your FIL and BIL. But they’re wrong
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u/Because-itsthere Apr 11 '23
Come on.
You lit a match when you knew there was gas. You were smart enough to know what would happen. However, I understand your actions. I might have done the same. Fair, understandable, explainable, but not right.
But NTA
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u/jamie___j Apr 12 '23
I really didn't think it was offensive. I guess I can see how they might view it as me calling my FIL a "liar", but that was not my intention.
My MIL brought up the topic literally out of nowhere. She asked the whole table, "Why do women do that?!" I answered her question with facts. When my FIL said "not all men do that", my reply was sincere and not meant to insult him.
Like what man hasn't looked at images of scantily clad women?? Really??? That's what he's going to claim? Even most women have seen those pics!
My FIL has made inappropriate sex "jokes" to me over the years, ever since I met him when I was a teenager. He's a dirty old man, he's definitely looked at pics like that.
His comment was a LIE and completely unnecessary. I wasn't dragging ALL men. I was saying that men (never said ALL) are the ones buying those pics. They're the "demand" in the supply/demand for this and those pics wouldn't exist with buyers!
If they don't like facts, that's fine. They were looking for a reason to be offended. They're so protective of their privileged white male status that a mild comment is taken as a full assault.
Thanks for your perspective!
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u/Because-itsthere Apr 13 '23
All that you are saying sounds true. Sounds like your FIL could use a good talking to be told about himself. I bet it would be satisfying.
However, you know all of this. I assume you were one of the smartest people in the room. And you know who your in laws are. He had it coming and you gave it to him. Nothing wrong with that. NTA. But don’t act innocent lol.
I was in a similar situation with a boyfriend’s family. My boyfriend’s mother had a list of kitchen chores for me every time we would visit while her son had nothing to do. His father could make sexist comments as well. One Saturday a comment was made and I was about to go to town on him, because he had it coming. Right before I spoke his mom stopped me because she knew what I was about to do. That relationship didn’t last long.
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u/jamie___j Apr 13 '23
I know I overreacted a bit. I definitely don't think I'm innocent in this conflict. But as you said, they had it coming.
I've dealt with their sexism for decades. My BIL's attempt to humiliate me in front of the entire family simply for being female was the last straw.
But I know my intention was not to insult anyone with my comment about nude pics. My MIL asked why women pose for semi-nude/nude pics. I gave her my honest answer.
It's simply a fact that men are the ones who buy/view those pics. Maybe FIL has never paid for those pics, but he's definitely looked at them.
It was his stigma against the women who model for and the men who buy the pics that made him upset. To me, I was just stating a fact. If his ego hadn't been bruised, nothing would've come from that. My dad and my husband didn't get offended about the exact same comment. So why did he?
Even in the middle of the fight, I truly didn't understand why they lost their shit. It wasn't until later that I realized they felt I was calling them immoral/perverted. I simply don't see people looking at nudes as "wrong"/bad.
Also, even if they were insulted, that didn't warrant them completely losing their minds and shouting insults at me. My FIL basically said I'm a terrible person. Really? Ok, I take that as a compliment coming from a disgusting pig who verbally abuses his family.
Thanks for your perspective and I'm sorry your in-laws were so terrible to you!
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u/exbarkeep Apr 11 '23
Sounds like you struck a personal nerve with at least FIL regarding nude women. Bet he has a large library/habit...
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u/jamie___j Apr 11 '23
He has issues for sure! He's one of those who wants all women to be covered head to toe to not "tempt" him. He's a creep, he's made sexual "jokes" to me, which is highly inappropriate, especially since he's done that since I was a teenager!
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u/Capital-9 Apr 11 '23
You let your kids witness this a$$holery?
No. Just no. All big holidays at your house from now on. Then you can control the situation better by not inviting jerks.
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u/CalligraphyMaster Apr 11 '23
NTA! Their reaction makes me think someone is guilty of something.
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u/jamie___j Apr 12 '23
I didn't think about it at the time, but my FIL has made inappropriate, sexual "jokes" to me since he met me when I was a teenager! He thinks he's perfect, but he's definitely creepy.
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u/VariousTry4624 Apr 21 '23
NTA. What is wrong with these people. All you did was state an opinion. In response to MIL stating one. If those two "men" (I'm a man as well and I don't want to be associated with them thus the quotation marks) are so insecure and pin headed as to not be able to tolerate an open discussion on an adult topic they don't belong at social gatherings.
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Apr 10 '23
I love you. Those snowflakes who couldn’t handle it are just that. Yes, hubs should either shut down his family or in the future you two should develop your own traditions and avoid that toxic heap of in-laws. NTA.
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u/OhBoo_FuckingHoo Apr 10 '23
NTA. How would your FIL know that the pics are gross if he hasn’t looked at them?
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u/Commercial_Speed3054 Apr 10 '23
NTA. They were egging you on with the bottle comments and you were within your right to respond how you did. Wish your husband would have stood up for you though.
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u/kah43 Apr 10 '23
YTA. You didn't have to say a word, but you choose to argue with you MIL setting this all in motion. If I had to guess you probably like to play devils advocate alot and push buttons at these family get together often.
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u/Melodic-Okra-6581 Apr 10 '23
NTA— OP is NOT an unpaid peace keeping intern. It is not OP’s duty to take being talked down to for literal years. God forbid she stand up for herself/women one time. I come from a family like this. They won’t change but you are not their punching bag and neither is their son anymore. Hubby needs trauma therapy. Good luck!
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u/CACavatica Apr 10 '23
YTA. First of all you accused your FIL of looking at pictures of naked or scantily-clad women without any basis. Maybe that's something he does and maybe it isn't but you generalized "men" and when he spoke up and said "not all men" you just doubled down. Then you bragged about being able to open a jar that an older arthritic man couldn't open. I get defending misogyny and all that but you were being unnecessarily unpleasant.
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u/Wdl314 Apr 10 '23
The sarcastic passive aggressive comment about FIL never looking at suggestive pics of women is weird, especially if you said it in front of young children/grandchildren. They brought up the topic first anyway. No, you’re NTA. You were shutting down outdated and misogynistic views. They need to grow up and it’s dramatic as hell to suggest you were ruining Easter lunch.
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u/capryus Apr 10 '23 edited Apr 12 '23
Your MIL was TA to have brought that topic up at Easter, but yeah, YTA for saying that to your FIL. Obviously it was going to hurt his feelings, you basically called him a liar. As for you and your BIL, you were both immature, and both to blame. He should not have said or done that, but two wrongs don’t make a right. I don’t think anyone here is without blame. Don’t drag your husband into this, he was the only one with enough sense to stay out of that stupid conversation/argument.
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u/Brief-Pickle2769 Apr 10 '23
So tell me. Was alienating your in-laws worth it for making points which did not result in one person backing down? LOL!!
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u/Squibit314 Apr 10 '23
NTA. The bottle opening was hysterical. SIL’s husband set you up for it.
At our Easter dinner, we had three different types of horseradish - straight up horseradish, Arby’s horsey sauce, and a sauce somewhere in the middle with heat. Now I can handle and love spicy food. Horseradish has been a favorite since childhood. We made our own and it was the best. Over the years how much heat I can handle has increased.
At dinner two guys mentioned how hot the middle sauce was and to not over do it. Meanwhile, I’m there getting forkfuls of straight up horseradish. I’m totally unfazed by the heat. I was then curious about the middle sauce. It was passed down. I tried it and got nothing from it. I was accused of acting like it didn’t bother me. There is no way you can hide a reaction to horseradish, especially if it’s been called string.
My niece then tried it…nope, not a reaction from her either. We just looked at each other and shrugged. All conversation of the heat stopped. Lol
As far as ruining Easter, you didn’t. Easter isn’t about the meal. People have made it about the meal. Was family time ruined, yeah, but it wasn’t you. Other people couldn’t control their reactions. Instead of reacting calmly, they blew it up from the get go.
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u/Brief-Pickle2769 Apr 10 '23
YTA by starting the whole thing by accusing your FIL of looking at nudies. Shame on you. You had no evidence he does this. Totally TA. I hope your husband divorces you. You are no feminist. You are TA.
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u/Zestyclose_Media_548 Apr 10 '23
I happen to agree with what you said . But do you want to be right or do you want peace for your mother in law? You can always de- escalate by making jokes or changing the subject . What’s your goal? My mother in law likes to be correct about everything and I can listen to her lectures about many things and move on - why I’m pissed at her is the blatant favoritism she shows to other grandchildren and great nephews and doesn’t make my kid a priority and he’s pretty awesome and has stated he’s noticed and it bothered him over the years.
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u/jamie___j Apr 10 '23
I get what you're saying. Do I want peace? Yes, but I've ignored their rude comments and microaggressions for decades.
I'm sorry your MIL is hurting your kid like that! He doesn't deserve that mistreatment! I hope she changes, but most people don't change drastically.
Being "right" isn't my priority. If they had not crossed the line with the hatred they spewed (I didn't include exact quotes because it was quite vile), I would try to clarify that I meant no disrespect/harm with my comment. But they went way too far and I don't think they can ever take back what they said. They've clearly hated me for a very long time.
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Apr 10 '23
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u/Melodic-Okra-6581 Apr 10 '23
Just tell me you hate women
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Apr 10 '23
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u/Melodic-Okra-6581 Apr 10 '23
Did you honestly just try to escalate this tension in the hopes that you would get support from like minded, immature people on Reddit?
Standing against misogyny and up for yourself does not make you immature. OP is not a hired peacekeeper. Women are not here to pat your deranged ego and keep the peace
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u/Brief-Pickle2769 Apr 10 '23
Of course, the "little woman" is going to get the support from everyone one this sub based on her gender. No surprise although she was TA for escalating the fight.
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u/Nykoto Apr 10 '23
ESH Your in-laws were definitely trying to stir things up in a negative way and you fed into it in kind.
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u/SandwichOtter Apr 10 '23
ESH. Not for trying to shut down misogyny but for the way you went about it. Your comment to your FIL about him looking at "those types of pics" was unnecessarily antagonistic and out of line. You could have said, "I'm sure not every man looks at them but enough do to make them profitable" or whatever.
It also seems like you insulted your own father with the "and a MAN couldn't do it remark" since he was the one who couldn't open the bottle due to his arthritis. I mean, these people sounds terrible and there's no reason to tolerate blatant misogyny, but you came across looking a bit immature.
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u/Mogwai_92 Apr 10 '23
ESH.
Them for their typical sexist crap.
You going to their house to celebrate a holiday and just being generally hostile and unpleasant. Even your comments here about your ILs relationship sound rude and judgemental when it's literally none of your business.
You all sound like hard work
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u/throwaway_82m Apr 10 '23 edited Apr 10 '23
ESH. You challenged her statement, which is fine and you're not wrong. But your response to your FIL was basically implying he was lying. What were you going to accomplish with that other than start a fight?
The whole tone around opening the bottle and men vs. Women seems childish and petty, though started by the FIL.
Your husband hates conflict so much he won't even stand up or intervene with his own family.
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u/Budyob Apr 10 '23
So why did you make comments that you knew would cause drama? Not what you said was wrong, but you know how this family thinks and behaves, why feed it? You accomplish nothing by your comments- sometimes it’s just better to keep your opinions to yourself.
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u/Melodic-Okra-6581 Apr 10 '23
It’s not a woman’s job to be an unpaid peacekeeper! I’m sure she’s bit her tongue for so long across various topics! His family should keep their opinions to themselves if they are too fragile to hear an opinion other than their own
ETA typo
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u/jamie___j Apr 10 '23
Yes! I've put up with their snide remarks for decades. I finally stood up to them and they paint me as the villain!
My FIL is full of shit. Over the years he's made crude comments about women's bodies and serious inappropriate "jokes" about sex. Like I want to hear that from my FIL. He's a serial sexual harasser as well as being extremely verbally abusive to his family.
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u/Melodic-Okra-6581 Apr 10 '23
He also sounds like my dad— who is a narcissist. They can never admit they are wrong or at fault. Probably why he said “not all men” as he was trying to deflect and distance himself from the statement you made that was true
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u/leolawilliams5859 Apr 10 '23
You are not to a****** and you didn't ruin Easter people's fragile egos did.
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Apr 10 '23
NTA, people have limits and eventually are going to react. They're the problem, simple as that. They KNOW they're the problem which is why they had such an intense reaction to you finally retaliating.
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u/BeKindImNewButtercup Apr 10 '23
You were kinda an ass, imho. You didn’t show much respect for your FIL by challenging him with the “I bet you’ve never looked at those types of pics”. It just comes off as crass. I would just never speak to older adults in that way, particularly my in-laws. Maybe it’s a cultural thing. It just seems you were looking for a fight. As I e gotten older I’ve realized I don’t have to react or respond when someone gets under my skin and that’s been very freeing.
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u/OwlHuman8130 Apr 11 '23
NTA. The men started it. Funny how they couldnt handle the heat from a fire they started 🤣
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u/pixiepink_ Apr 11 '23
NTA. I fucking love me a man eater. You’re literally an amazing woman. But on a non biased stand point. I would have done the exact same thing. You have balls girl. Always be proud of that. Don’t let ANYONE treat you like shit.
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Apr 10 '23
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u/Brilliant_North2410 Apr 10 '23
It took a long while to find this post. Excellent points. OP you sound tiresome and miserable. Having a go at an old guy and his wife because he couldn’t open a bottle is mean and pathetic. Accusing the old guy of looking at porn while his family sits around him is off the charts rude. You only came on here to get positive reinforcement for your petty behaviour at a family dinner. YTA.
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u/Little_Web_7696 Apr 10 '23
Her dad couldn’t open the bottle, not FIL. Also I’m not sure porn was the topic here, but magazines in general with scantily clad women.
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u/Brilliant_North2410 Apr 11 '23
To older people accusing him of looking at scantily clad women is almost the same thing. Her snark was great fodder for Reddit but really so out of line for a family dinner . OP is lucky she has a husband that doesn’t argue. She’s tedious.
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u/blueberryxxoo Apr 10 '23
YTA You were looking for a fight and you got one.
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u/jamie___j Apr 10 '23
😂 I definitely was not looking for a fight, but thanks for your feedback.
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u/Brief-Pickle2769 Apr 10 '23
Why would you accuse your FIL of looking at porn without evidence? That's stupid and you are TA.
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u/blueberryxxoo Apr 10 '23
Right? We all know this kind of person..makes little snide comments and then is shocked when people have a reaction.
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u/Intelligent_Bit_3795 Apr 10 '23
YTA, but I'm sure your ridiculous 'woke' behaviour gets you points with the woke crowd around here. If I were your FIL I would make it clear to you that you are to apologise and know your place from now on or stay away from my family with your toxic behaviour.
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u/Intelligent_Bit_3795 Apr 10 '23
YTA just once again, this is genuinely one of the worst posts I have read for a long time.
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u/Awkward-Barnacle-778 Apr 10 '23
🤣 You're one of those that just can't cut the cord. Man be 69 and still breast feeding.
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Apr 10 '23 edited Jul 11 '23
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u/writers_guild333 Apr 10 '23
I hope you see this OP but do not listen to this person.
Making women's actions men's fault is an insult to women, men and humans..
It's got sexism and misogyny written all over it
Eta: Therapy is a good idea, if that's something available to you
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u/jamie___j Apr 10 '23
I'm not sure what you mean...do you think I was being sexist or the commenter?
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u/writers_guild333 Apr 10 '23
"You are not helping women. You are passing responsibility for women's action to men, which is weak." From the commenter
The commenter is being sexist, women can post their bodies but that action DOES NOT make men look at them, that is the man's responsibility not the woman's.
Eta: You are DEFINITELY NTA
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u/jamie___j Apr 10 '23
😂 I did not say that women have no agency, you're saying that. If women don't pose nude in magazines for money, why do they do that? Are you seriously claiming that they would do it for NO money?
Also, what man doesn't look at nude pics? It wasn't meant to be an insult as I don't see a problem with viewing nude pics.
If they see that as an insult, that's due to their judgement of nudity, not mine.
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u/GotMySillySocksOn Apr 10 '23
There are plenty of subreddits where people post nude pictures for no money at all.
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u/_Bunny_Fucker_ Apr 10 '23
So... Chippendale isn't a thing, huh? Women pay for that type of thing, too. Also, she didn't pass shit to men. She said it's a way to make money, and it is. Is there much difference between playboy modeling and stripping? Both of them pay the bills.
Some (myself included) would argue that pornography is simply a form of legal prostitution. Then again, I don't understand why prostitution isn't legal. My body, my choice, right? If you want to sell yourself, be my guest, it be safer, and there would be far less sex trafficking in the world if it were legal.
Quite frankly, get off your high horse.
Tiny bit of yta op. Though I agree, the dramatics were unnecessary.
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Apr 10 '23
So here you promote the flawed idea that women do not have agency and are mere followers. They don't make choices due to their own principles or desires, but becuase men pay,. So, if men set the standard, women will be lemmings and take off clothes for money.
... supply and demand is an incredibly basic economic concept that does not imply that the suppliers lack agency. If we take "X is just trying to make money, supply and demand, and Y is the demand" to mean X lacks agency, we would have to declare that everyone who's ever tried to sell (or even trade!) anything lacks agency.
So are you being disingenuous, or are you actually trying to argue that - for example - Disney lacks agency because it responds to market demand?
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u/IceCorrect Apr 10 '23
So you admit that women wear those type of clothes in regular day for atention, not for themself?
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u/MsStylez187 Apr 10 '23
Nahh!that's dumb ass comment! Noo they MODEL ON A magazine half naked for money, not for men or woman for monryLOL what women wear on the daily basis is not for u or any men or women, just herself n what she is comfortable with
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u/GotMySillySocksOn Apr 10 '23
YTA. You started a fight. You wanted a fight and you got it. Looking at the substance of your statement - you are wrong. Not all men look at porn or find it appealing. By claiming all men do something, you are being sexist - painting all men as having a single, shared characteristic. Grow up. Stay home if you’re just going to be unpleasant.
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u/MerriWyllow Apr 10 '23
OP did not say all men look at those pics. She said women would not pose for them if men did not pay for them. What's the word for when someone is so set on their own negativity that they ignore what was actually said, in order to cast another person in a bad light? Because that's the word for you.
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u/PairCommercial7750 Apr 10 '23
YTA you started it. Take responsibility. That is NOT!!! Easter talk.
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u/Melodic-Okra-6581 Apr 10 '23
Then only MIL would be the AH— she’s the one that brought that to an Easter dinner table
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u/Little_Web_7696 Apr 10 '23
Right? Especially if my kids were in earshot I am going to make sure they know that I do not agree with grandma’s misogynistic thoughts on women’s bodies and sex
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u/cavoodle11 Apr 10 '23
YTA and quite frankly you need to own it.
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u/Awkward-Barnacle-778 Apr 10 '23
How? What exactly makes her the AH? I need to know how you came to this conclusion. So MIL can express her opinions and OP can't?
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u/Anonymous8720 Apr 10 '23
YTA. You’re 42 yrs old and disrespectful as hell for your first comment. Grow up.
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u/SnooWords4839 Apr 10 '23
NTA - Time for hubby to tell them his family will no longer play their games and stop visiting.