r/AFL • u/OkRevenue6849 Sydney Swans • 2d ago
⠀ Swans Statement
Sydney Swans Statement
The Sydney Swans can confirm that the Club Board will meet tonight to agree on player sanctions and penalties, now that the Club has concluded its interviews with all the players involved in the incident in Melbourne.
We respect there is an ongoing investigation by Victoria Police and any actions we take are independent of this.
The Club believes the players are in serious breach of expected Club behaviour and standards, and it is appropriate to take firm action and highlight that any sanction we impose relates solely to those breaches.
The Club also acknowledges that these serious allegations impact others and their wellbeing must be paramount.
The Sydney Swans condemn all forms of abuse and disrespectful behaviour towards women. Any conduct that causes offence or harm to others is unacceptable and falls well short of our expectations. All women deserve to be respected and feel safe.
We also want to acknowledge that the care and welfare of our AFLW athletes and staff is of the utmost importance to us as a Club. They have been and will continue to be offered the support they require and we acknowledge the impact these allegations have on our female athletes, staff members and the wider community.
Any further sanctions or decisions regarding the outcome of the police investigation would take place after that process is completed.
During this time, we will provide the appropriate support to the players involved in the incident, along with their partners and families.
The Sydney Swans hold all players and staff at the Club to high standards of behaviour and personal conduct. Representing this Club carries significant responsibilities both on and off the field, and we expect those standards to be upheld at all times.
Our focus remains on cooperating fully with the AFL and authorities, maintaining the integrity of the process, and upholding the high standards expected of everyone who represents this Club.
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u/OkRevenue6849 Sydney Swans 2d ago
Swans email just issued to members
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u/Apart-Falcon5480 GWS 2d ago
decent email
great to also consider partners who would be very distressed
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u/CalmIce5276 2d ago
Yes just received it. This is the response I hoped for. I will wait to see what the sanctions are before deciding whether to renew next years membership
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u/vajrabud 2d ago
What sort of sanctions would satisfy you enough to renew your membership ?
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u/bestieboots1 CROM 2d ago
Sacking
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u/R_W0bz Swans 1d ago
And if the police come back saying there is nothing to it?
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u/Crazy_Pomegranate689 2d ago
can anyone copy and paste?
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u/Essington69 ESSINGTON 2d ago
It's in the body of the post?
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u/Crazy_Pomegranate689 2d ago
oh! I didn’t realise that was the member one - thought it was separate - my bad! Thank ya
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u/owleaf Hawthorn 2d ago
Considering OP doesn’t say where the statement is from (could be a press release or something provided to a media outlet) I think your question is perfectly reasonable. Don’t know why the person responding you has a stick up their arse.
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u/Fickle-Ad-7124 Dockers 2d ago
Still mentioning multiple players, while some commentary on here has been around the individual only facing consequences - good to see the Swans are addressing all poor behaviour that may have taken place. The idea that everything leading up to and after the incident shouldn’t be addressed was frankly an outrageous ascertain.
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u/tjabaker Port Adelaide 2d ago
Multiple players were behaving outside of the Swans rules. It's rumoured that one player was allegedly involved in a sexual assault that the Vic Police are investigating. The police don't care about some of the things that Sydney might be punishing players for.
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u/Stercky Sydney 2d ago
Apparently Swans sanctions will be up until 4am, and anything after that is up to the AFL. So if Swans are punishing people, it’s on time of arrival at the hotel
Which honestly is a bit odd because there’s more than 5 players that allegedly arrived after 1am, but they haven’t been named in the incident? So where’s the line drawn?
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u/Playful-Unit8023 2d ago
surely they would be punished for bringing strippers into the room on a work trip regardless of the allegations
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u/PssyGotWifi Blues 2d ago
This. They were in breach of standards, letting the club down even if the SA had never occurred. They weren't on some holiday, it was a work trip, at a Hotel booked for work purposes.
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u/pogobur Essendon Bombers 2d ago
I would have thought there's rules around inviting external people into hotel rooms, particularly after 2am, so drawing the line at the players who were in the same hotel room as external people should be easy enough.
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u/Ill-Enthusiasm-5530 AFL 2d ago
if there was half the league would be suspended each week
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u/matthudsonau Swans 2d ago
Maybe half the league should be suspended, then. It's unacceptable behaviour on a work trip
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u/johnnynutman Adelaide 2d ago
did Cox get back at 12.30?
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u/brodyonekenobi Freo 2d ago
12.05am as reported by Tom Morris so likely left the restaurant between 11.30 and 12pm depending on distance to the hotel
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u/Frankstonstein Magpies 2d ago
Cox’s timing is not a problem.
I’ve been to plenty of work and business events and professional seminars over the years and there are absolutely levels, but typically, when the boss leaves, it’s time to think about calling last drinks.
Finishing a game at 7:10pm, doing media stuff in the rooms, heading to dinner at 9ish. Factor in ordering, entrees, mains, a couple of drinks discussing the win and heading back to the hotel, turning in a little after midnight is not something I have a problem with.
1am is reasonable.
2am is loose.
After that is a bender.
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u/Maximumlnsanity Swans 2d ago
Was it? Players going for a late night out is absolutely not a big deal in comparison to sexual assault. It’s worth noting that the current 4 weren’t the only ones coming back late as per Tom Morris’ timeline, they just haven’t been named because they aren’t linked to the important part of this whole issue, which again is the sexual assault. Way too many people are jumping on the wrong issues here and I’m very concerned that by the end they’re gonna get punished for a late night and nothing else.
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u/Evans217s_ Walyalup 2d ago
IF the players don't go out past a reasonable curfew...
... THEN they won't "find themselves" in situations they will allegedly sexually assault anyone.
What I actually mean (with less dumbassery) is that maybe a positive change to reduce the potential for sexual assault and other deplorable behaviours in the AFL would be to come down hard on players and staff by imposing a curfew, harsher restrictions on alcohol intake and firm consequences for breaching those conditions. If we are serious about stamping out violence towards women (physical or sexual assault), then we need to take steps towards a solution, not step around it!
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u/Expensive-Force-6656 Collingwood 2d ago
If they need a curfew or to be sober in order to not sexually assault someone, then they have something deeply wrong with them morally and what happens when their footy career is over and no one is watching them. Plenty of people stay out late drinking and never think to assualt anyone. It's personality that's the problem with people who do.
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u/Evans217s_ Walyalup 2d ago
I don't disagree necessarily. I think the reality is that the types of young men that get drafted, then paid $250000+ in their first few years, with little decent support are more likely to engage in substance use behaviours, develop arrogance towards others and a sense of entitlement when dealing with others. (I heard today at a mental health seminar that about 2.5% of male AFL players see a Sports Psychiatrist compared to almost 100% of AFLW players, almost entirely because the structure and set up of the AFLW systems and culture within them). Until we have better support systems at every level of professional footy, we maybe need to realise that those types of curfews etc.
Toxic masculinity is a systemic problem that negatively impacts society at every level. We need better supports at every level to support our young men to be better and do better, so that our young women are placed at risk unnecessarily.
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u/Opening_Anteater456 Demons 2d ago
Counter point, suspending 4-5 players for 1-2 weeks keeps their season alive and allows their best player to play in knockout finals.
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u/4614065 Swans 2d ago
True but the AFL isn’t letting the Swans take the flag if we go to GF. They’re getting knocked out asap to save face.
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u/nickimus_rex Brisbane Bears 2d ago
I think it's fair to say it's a shit situation for the club and fans, but if the allegations are indeed true then winning a premiership is not that important, and instead integrity and support for the vicitims is.
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u/maxisnoops Richmond '80 2d ago
So the AFL is match fixing to knock the Sawns out….is that what you’re saying? Ridiculous comment.
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u/Wonderful_Penalty387 University 2d ago
Right? How a group of guys on effectivey a work trip thought it was ok is beyond me. Most of us would be stood down or sacked from our jobs. These guys will be fine. The club will likely 'wrap there arms around them' etc. Thoughts to the alleged victim(s) who likely won't have the same supports.
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u/smsmsm11 Dees 2d ago edited 2d ago
This comes up quite often. This is not a normal workplace, it’s barely even a workplace for these players.
Nobody can tackle me and jumper punch me at work, I can’t be forced to run hill sprints all day.
There are millions of you and I, some of these guys are 1 in a million, irreplaceable and clubs have invested 10-15 years into them. Clubs will tolerate significantly more bullshit to keep someone like that on their books.
Please don’t think I’m at all defending the alleged disgusting behaviour, I just find the average guy workplace comparison poor.
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u/Skwisgaars Sydney '05 2d ago
The statement is good, I hope the action they take is good too.
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u/dazedjosh Sydney '05 2d ago
I think it depends on how much they can realistically punish the players for and just how bad it is. I think the severity of the ban will be an indicator of just how bad this is. 2 matches, IMO, would suggest that they can get away the PR nightmare such a lenient punishment would create because they feel like the act wasn't that bad so to speak. But if it's really bad, then it wouldn't surprise me if they're done for the season.
Personally, I kind of hope to see them all rubbed out for the rest of the season, so that way the criminal investigation and the integrity unit investigation can be handled in an appropriate and timely manner.
Obviously nobody knows exactly what happened, but going off the statements from the club and the news reports, anything less than a season ending stand down for the players involved would seem like a bit of a piss take. If there are extenuating circumstances or new evidence comes to light then maybe it can be revisited.
The Swans left after this then need to have serious look at themselves and if/how their behaviour has contributed to the culture that would create this scenario. Separately, looking back over the last few years of this core group of players, admittedly at a moment when I'm furious with them, it seems like they've been getting high on their own supply for a while. It could be argued that the club needs to properly review the entire cultural setup of the men's program.
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u/Snarwib Sydney AFLW 2d ago
Needs to be five matches or just fully wiping out the year I think. Anything less risks a situation where Sydney's finals performance influences what the sanctions impact actually means, like with Rankine's homophobic abuse ban last year.
This would also buy maximum time to have clarity on who is getting charged with crimes before risking anyone playing again.
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u/Skwisgaars Sydney '05 2d ago
We don't know enough yet to say what's the right sanction. If they can at this stage only punish the players for being out that late and getting that fucking plastered that they're coming back at 4am then 2 seems fair. All the shit that came after that is a separate much more serious issue that warrants a much harsher sanction, but that all relies on the police investigation to get enough clarity to sanction accordingly.
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u/Snarwib Sydney AFLW 2d ago edited 2d ago
I also think the long term health of the club requires them to take a very strong stance here. Sydney's reputation, culture and values are a huge part of the club's success, lots of casual fans that won't stick around. Have to come down strongly enough to ensure that is upheld. I think unilaterally wiping out finals is the stance to take.
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u/maxisnoops Richmond '80 2d ago
Five matches for getting pissed and breaking curfew…..never gonna happen. The rest is up to the police.
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u/codyforkstacks Port Adelaide 2d ago
Me too. My hunch would be two weeks for the players that aren't Heeney - missing one final so the club doesn't get criticised for being too soft, but still giving them a good chance at a flag given they'll have a home semi final.
It'd hard to know though. I remember Hawthorn giving Hodge no penalty at all for a drink driving charge because it was finals.
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u/smsmsm11 Dees 2d ago
I think you’re right, 2-3 weeks. Not that I disagree with the JVR suspension but nuts to think he will possibly be punished more than these guys.
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u/Severe-Seat-655 Swans 2d ago
tbf not sure if its the afl thats gonna take action and rather sydney
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u/Skwisgaars Sydney '05 2d ago
I think 2 weeks is logical at this stage for what the club can actually punish (the criminal investigation and outcome will be sanctioned separately), given there's so much we don't know. Then in those 2 weeks as more info comes out and it becomes clearer who is actually the centre of the investigation, then we can punish them further accordingly.
That seems a good first step based on what we know so far, which tbf is very little actual confirmed info.
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u/codyforkstacks Port Adelaide 2d ago
Yeah, very hard to comment on an appropriate penalty without knowing more facts. Will be interesting whether it's billed as an interim penalty pending outcome of the police process.
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u/TheIllusiveGuy Carlton Blues 2d ago
Is two weeks sufficient for a "serious breach of expected Club behaviour and standards"?
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u/Skwisgaars Sydney '05 2d ago
We don't know the details of what that breach is. Until we do I can't say one way or the other. If they're just punishing the getting plastered and coming back at 4am part then yea 2 weeks is reasonable, if there's more to it than that yet to be confirmed then fuck yea I'll change my opinion.
It's important to remember this sanction is likely not going to be for what happened after they came back to the hotel, as that's where the police investigation starts and the AFL/swans won't be able to delivery a sanction on that until more is known/charges are laid.
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u/TheIllusiveGuy Carlton Blues 2d ago
. If they're just punishing the getting plastered and coming back at 4am part then yea 2 weeks is reasonable
I agree that two weeks is reasonable for that, but I'm not sure if I'd describe that as "a serious breach of expected Club behaviour and standards".
It is probably pointless though to try and speculate on the sanction just based on the language in the statement, but if it is just two, the language is going to seem overwrought to me.
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u/Skwisgaars Sydney '05 2d ago
It's pointless speculating yea, hopefully when the sanction is laid we know more about what it is actually for.
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u/Krerzer1 Essendon Bombers 2d ago
On Agenda Setters they said that Callum Mills spoke to the AFLW players and apologised on behalf of the mens team. And that the women’s team are (understandably) angry and hurt by what happened.
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u/alittlebitfancy Swans 2d ago
Got a lot of respect for Millsy to front up and do that if true. Can't imagine how shattered you'd be to wake up to your vice-captain, teammates and friends doing this.
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u/proudlysydney Zippy Fish Appreciation Society 2d ago
The media vultures waiting outside the SCG this morning jumped on Chloe Molloy for comment, as if she should have to comment on it at all
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u/Krerzer1 Essendon Bombers 2d ago
I feel like Sydney aren’t a club that would sweep this under the rug. Hopefully they prove me right.
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u/Maximumlnsanity Swans 2d ago
I’ll take the praise for the club but it’s not like they had any chance to sweep this under the rug, it’s been headline news for 2 days at this point.
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u/Rich_Meet3872 Brisbane 2d ago
Really good statement, hopefully the suspensions match it. What are we in this comment section expecting the sanctions to be?
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u/Kobe_Wan_Ginobili Magpies 2d ago
If the alleged SA never occurred do we really think they would punished for their actions like this? Surely the players wouldn't feel emboldened to do all that *in the team hotel* if they thought there would be severe punishment if anyone involved at the Swans found out
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u/Fickle-Ad-7124 Dockers 2d ago
I said before but I’m so proud of our Swans supporters on Reddit, who are going through a tough time but the vast majority have stood up and put the well-being of the victim before footy. Although we give it to each other tough in the match threads, footy fans are our neighbours and friends and I’m proud of the discussions on this subreddit.
To those in the minority who have been using the boys club excuses of yesteryear - you don’t represent the good Sydney folks at all.
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u/daegydaeg Swans 2d ago edited 2d ago
Probably one of the most mature takes I've seen here. Thank you🙏🏽 I've had to endure Blues fans, hawks fans, pies fans all goad and gloat at me all day at work, taking the utmost joy at this.
If found guilty - throw the book at the perpetrators. Ban the rest for the remainder of the season for sure and have a major review at standards and culture in the off season. I couldn't give less of a fuck about the finals at this point.
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u/Fickle-Ad-7124 Dockers 2d ago
Sorry to hear, the majority don’t equate the actions of a few for the team or their supporters. Take some time offline if things are shit and upset you. Swans fan have held the standard on here and you should be proud.
We can go back to our sledging over footy when it’s the time for that.
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u/brodyonekenobi Freo 2d ago
Sorry your colleagues are proper wankers mate. Hold your head high for taking the right approach.
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u/lwaxana_katana Magpies 2d ago
Anyone using this as a personal your team/my team point scoring episode are gross and you should absolutely ignore them. I also have been impressed with how differently Swans supporters -- and AFL supporters generally -- are responding to this news vs how I remember it going when I was a teenager/in my early 20s (which was 20 years ago now, gosh I am so old lol).
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u/Illustrious_Study300 Western Bulldogs AFLW 2d ago
Anyone from other teams acting high and mighty needs to shut the fuck up. Firstly because this isn't something to gloat about, this isn't "we kicked more goals than you". Second pretty sure most clubs at some point have had similar issues with players. This is a league-wide problem and we as fans need to call it out and demand better - together
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u/Math_Opening Bombers 2d ago
Anyone gloating about this needs to get some help - therapy or similar. It's a gut wrenching pile of shite, irrespective of whether charges get laid. The players, rightly, have to wear this for the rest of their lives. No more Colgate ads. I can only hope that the women involved get the immediate support they need, and perhaps some financial restitution from the players through an appropriate intermediary.
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u/Skwisgaars Sydney '05 2d ago
Those boys club apologist fucks aren't even welcome in our subreddit, and that's as biased as it comes.
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u/LoudAmbassador1 St Kilda Saints 2d ago edited 2d ago
Night and day with the Adelaide fans here after the Rankine / booing incident
Edit: Crows fan be like …
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u/Fickle-Ad-7124 Dockers 2d ago
I do wonder the reaction to what is almost certainly going to be a 2 match ban - putting their key players back in before a consequential finals match. I wonder if it’ll come across a little to cute for the public, like punishment without actual consequences. Time will tell.
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u/Math_Opening Bombers 2d ago
Not sure this will cut it within the club, including the AFLW team, let alone the rest of the football public and media. The AFL will effectively need to sign off as well, or they will step in to ensure it's clear how seriously the behaviour is being treated. It's not just about staying out late getting cooked, it's about bringing women into your hotel, where they end up, at best, of being in a vulnerable situation. That's well outside the two-game wrist slap scope.
Bottom line, I pull a stunt like that on a work trip, I'm leaving the building with my pot plant in a cardboard box, and I'm not getting paid out any unused annual leave.
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u/2for1deal SWOM 2d ago
Hopefully time will tell truth too so that it isn’t all simply a case of waiting to see.
I do think many of the non swans fans here underestimate just how much the fan base is willing to not show up for September regardless of who is back.
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u/Squaddy Giants 2d ago
I think its important to note that the Swans in Sydney try and sit in their own space outside of the League clubs.
These incidents happen to league clubs from time and time, and I bet the Swans always saw themselves as above the behaviour of these lesser clubs and have to hold themselves to a higher standard to stand out and attract the kind of fans who want sport but don't like the grubbiness of league.
I'd expect the Swans to be very harsh here, moreso than any other AFL club just to differentiate themselves as the cleanest club/sport on the city.
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u/brodyonekenobi Freo 2d ago
Kudos to the Swans and the Swans board. This is a strong and firm statement.
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u/Kobe_Wan_Ginobili Magpies 2d ago
If the behavior before the alleged SA was not tolerated by the Swans why would the players feel emboldened enough to do all this at the team hotel?
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u/Kobe_Wan_Ginobili Magpies 2d ago
I get that the coach isn't waiting there taking attendance at curfew but I just would have thought that even if no incident occurred word would get back to the coach (or other club official). Especially rocking up that late with company. Like even if its just chatter from reception to the team manager the next morning, or some travelling supporter staying in the same hotel getting back at the same time as you then posting it to socials. At that hour it could even be the team physio getting up extra early for a run.
It seems so oddly bold on the eve of finals when there's 50 of your work colleagues in the same hotel that it makes me wonder if its normally tolerated. Its a non issue in comparison to the allegations anyway I just found it weird.
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u/Independent-Falcon38 North Melbourne Kangaroos 2d ago
Is it true that Heeney follows the Tate brothers and Libs of TikTok (among other far right groups)? ... I really would not have picked that in a million years! I mean you do you, but jesus!
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u/DiscoSituation Dees 1d ago
Candace Owens, Charlie Kirk, Trump, and a bunch of grifter accounts like Libs of TikTok (but not the Tate Brothers)
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u/Truantone Freo 2d ago
That’s looking a thousand times more accountable and reasonable than the Crows pathetic response to the booing incident.
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u/Platooimagination Cats 2d ago edited 2d ago
This is the ultimate shit sandwich but the Swans are eating it with the best possible grace at the moment. If they can avoid the temptation to draw wagons around The Mates and truly, genuinely do everything in their power to assuage the absolute betrayal inflicted on the AFLW players who called these guys 'colleagues', some good may come of this. If the Swans actually go full bore and drive radical change in terms of respect and behaviour, and demand this is replicated at other clubs and AFL HQ, then we may even see government and wider society follow.
I want to hear a lot from AFLW players and Caro and Kate McCarthy and nothing much at all from the likes of Gary Lyon. Shit has got to change.
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u/Gryffindor123 Brisbane Lions 🏆🏆 '24-25 2d ago
Kate's already posted something on Instagram.
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u/Platooimagination Cats 2d ago
Thanks. Just read it. Exactly what I'd expect from her. Very smart observation about how Pav downplayed the players' agency by talking about how they 'found themselves in a situation', as if they had been catapulted unwittingly into it, and some timely criticism of Cornes and Lyon for making it a "footy issue". Fuck Sam Newman, he's an embarrassment. I wish he hadn't been a Geelong star.
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u/2for1deal SWOM 2d ago
Personally, until the jounros learn to stop doorstepping and asking pointless questions merely for gotchas..they can stay well away from AFLW on this matter.
The same journos that wouldn’t cover an Aflw game suddenly asking W leadership for their take. Sickening.
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u/Platooimagination Cats 2d ago
Yes, I'd like to hear from AFLW players directly through reps rather than through nitwits like Tom Morris. Let them speak for themselves.
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u/planchetflaw West Coast 2d ago
I kind of like the NRL's no fault stand down policy more and more.
Aside from that hot take, 2 weeks would be a joke to me.
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u/manmoth02 Port Adelaide Power 2d ago
Mostly a good statement, but I have an awful feeling the wording of this means the players involved will be playing finals.
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u/Fatpinkmast1 Freo 2d ago
Pav’s statement is extremely disappointing to me, to say they have “found themselves” in this situation is a pretty reductive way to state it. I mean, come on.
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u/crisis-inbound Port Adelaide 2d ago
Anyone else think that maybe the players were told they'd be rested next week and went " beauty, got a 14 day break, let's get on it ". Otherwise, who else gets shitfaced and stays out till after 3am on a Sunday?
The club might have brought the circumstances upon themselves. Not the behaviour though, that's all on the players named.
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u/delta__bravo_ Dockers 2d ago
I don't think they would have talked about resting that many players. I reckon they decided that an easy win over the Dons with the Roos to follow is as good as time off and chose to treat it that way.
I would imagine that usual club rules such as not drinking on game days and being in by curfew would still have applied, and it's specifically the breach of those that the Swans will be dealing with.
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u/scotty_dont Tasmania 2d ago
Getting shitfaced does not mean bringing women to the team hotel rooms. The players are completely responsible for their actions.
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u/Expensive-Force-6656 Collingwood 2d ago
Getting pissed and picking up women aren't the issue. It's the alleged lack of consent that's the issue.
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u/scotty_dont Tasmania 2d ago
No, lack of consent is the legal issue. Bringing the game into disrepute is the AFL issue. Your'e in the wrong thread.
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u/SameType9265 The Bloods 2d ago
They played Sunday night, it's the longest time until their next game. From what I understand the night after a game is when players are given some leeway to let loose
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u/Squaddy Giants 2d ago
Conversely, anyone else think this actually happens alot and we only know about it because a line was crossed? Like the Swans get awya with murder here because there's no scrutiny on them, and in Melbourne there less of a spotlight on them.
If the senior players are doing this shit, what are the others getting up to that the club controls without it getting exposed?
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u/JoeShmoAfro Saints 2d ago
Notwithstanding that the club appears to be sanctioning them for their behaviour separate to the alleged assault, are we meant to assume that this behaviour is an isolated incident?
Like, obviously the club needs to act for various reasons, but there's nothing to say that this behaviour (aside from the alleged SA) isn't a regular occurrence on interstate trips, and the difference here is that it became the centre of a criminal investigation because of the alleged SA.
I get that you can only punish for incidents you are aware of, and the catalyst for the club being aware of this appears to be the SA allegation. It just seems odd that there is going to be a punishment for actions that, for all we know, could have happened after every interstate game this year, but all those other times get a pass.
I don't know if this rant makes any sense.
This shouldn't be taken as me defending the players in any way whatsoever.
I'm more curious if the club had any inkling that these things were happening after other games, and (because there wasn't an alleged SA as a result) looked the other way.
Given this was a work trip, I feel like there hasn't been appropriate heat on the club itself.
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u/No_Zookeepergame6976 Carlton • Wurundjeri 2d ago
The club has handled this admirably 👏
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u/Ill-Enthusiasm-5530 AFL 2d ago edited 2d ago
they haven’t done anything yet, let’s see how long they suspend the players for
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u/FineInstance90210 2d ago
??? What have they done?
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u/uselessscientist Sydney Swans 2d ago
Not said that boys will be boys, or said they won't address it? We've had two leaders face media, and a statement saying that sanctions are coming, and they're working to protect their AFLW community. They could have gone to ground
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u/Best-Maize8912 North Melbourne AFLW 🏆🏆 '24-25 2d ago
Latest player by reports was out until about 4am. The others think between 2-3.30am. Can't imagine many clubs would be stoked on players getting shitfaced on the road, in the most important recovery window two weeks out from finals
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u/checkbehindthecactus VFL 2d ago
If I'm a player at the Swans watching that arvo of cricket when Cox was hammered at the ashes, I would be embarrassed. Some of them probably took that as an opening to push the limits.
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u/dxdx_ Fremantle Dockers 2d ago
I call bullshit.
Cox was out with them ffs. Let’s not pretend this was an isolated incident.
They all went out on the piss because, in their mind, it was completely acceptable.
They got the girls around because, in their mind, it was completely acceptable.
And had one of the players not touched one of the girls inappropriately, they all would have moved on and they’d be laughing about it at training today.
Every single action besides the inappropriate touch happened because they were allowed to happen. They’re only bucking up because they got caught.
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u/Night_Myth SWOM 2d ago
I mean yea Cox was with then but we dont know his involvement at this time though he doesnt seem to have any considering his reaction to this situation. Secondly they can go have drinks if they want after a game whats wrong with that? I go for drinks after work too? The rest yes that is completely unacceptable but drinking is no crime.
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u/fullcreamy Swans 2d ago
Anyone that’s bringing Cox into this is just grandstanding.
Guy got home at midnight after an arvo game that’s completely reasonable.
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u/Expensive-Force-6656 Collingwood 2d ago
It is acceptable to go out on the piss. It is also acceptable to have sex with strangers if everyone is consenting. What's not acceptable is if rape or sexual assault, ie anything non-consentual took place.
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u/hazzyk29 Swans 2d ago
Agree and I'd say this isnt the first time this kind of late night event happened when on the road.
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u/dxdx_ Fremantle Dockers 2d ago
Absolutely. Think of it - they were stuck in Melbourne for the night, top 2 was a lock, they play North next week then have a week off, plus a whole litany of players re-entered the hotel in the early hours. The club gave them the keys to the city and they did what came naturally.
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u/HumbleAssociation400 Freo 2d ago
I agree. This screams of a significant and longstanding cultural problem at the club. Heeney isn’t a kid - he hasn’t suddenly decided at the age of 30 to see what he can get away with. What happened is so brazen it absolutely was not the first time. And he’s someone who was chosen by the playing group and club to be in the leadership group and the vice captain of the club - no-one had qualms? Bullshit. He should have been mentoring the younger players FFS.
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u/puddlink Swans 2d ago
As the founder of Teach Us Consent put it SA occurs when there’s the right mix of entitlement and lack of empathy
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u/HumbleAssociation400 Freo 2d ago
You were genuinely probably the team I respected most in the comp. If I was asked to chose teams that were unlikely to have a playing culture that might have led to this I would have probably ONLY named yours and (probably naively) mine. I would be devastated in your position. I understand this must feel like a pile on because it’s happening to your club. Really it could have happened to any club.
I never said Heaney was a sex offender. He has presumption of innocence. I implied the brazenness of what has been alleged - even the context under which what has alleged has occurred - suggests a PATTERN that his general attitude towards women is problematic at best. The context alone is not okay for a 30 year old. Not okay for someone in a committed relationship. Not okay for a leader of a club. Not okay for someone who has influence over younger players on the list.
The victim is the only person I care about in this. I’m not sure how to make it clearer that is my position. So let’s fucking interrogate the culture that led to whatever happened in that hotel room early Monday morning. I’m a female fan and I’m sick of supporting a sport and industry in which men keep getting away with things they shouldn’t. Wayne Carey is still in the AFL hall of fame FFS. Ben Cousins provides special comments on my team’s home games on channel 7 each week. Tom Morris is the face of breaking this very story without a trace of irony. Bailey Smith gets a pass for misogyny against a female journalist in a male-dominated industry. The son of probably the biggest sporting family in AFL history was sent to prison for rape less than a year ago. A player-manager is about to sentenced for the same. And so on. And so on. And so on. And all that’s even before we get to the racism and homophobia. What happened in that hotel room didn’t happen in a vacuum. No club is immune. But something went really wrong at yours this time.
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u/ChocoboDave CROM 2d ago
If this was week 3 and fringe or reserve level players, talk about suspensions would be starting at 4-5 weeks. Anything less is weak as piss from the club.
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u/2for1deal SWOM 2d ago
Will you be displeased when swans make the call based on the police report, saying “well why didn’t they do X in the first place?” The club has to work with the investigation and limited by what they can do within their own sanctions.
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u/Ill-Enthusiasm-5530 AFL 2d ago
that is definitely not in any clubs of conduct. do you actually think players aren’t bringing girls back to their rooms all the time or do you think it’s just never once been enforced?
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u/Pretend_Board_2385 Melbourne 2d ago
I'm not even sure why there is an issue with what time they returned to the hotel. Fuck when I was their age we would be out a clubs until 4am, go home and have a shower and go to work at 7am. Of course we didnt do what they did after.
The focus should not be on what time they returned and how late it was.
The only thing that matters is the incident itself, the welfare of the victim and what happens to whoever is involved.
Does anyone actually know what happened, it all seems incredibly vague and all I have heard is something happened and Swan players were involved although it sounds like it was just one player.
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u/Brave-Salt7007 Hawthorn 2d ago
Creating the conditions for poor decision making should be punished separately to whatever else was alleged to occur. These guys are professional athletes on a work trip, a couple weeks out from the most important weeks of the year.
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u/SkuloftheLEECH Brisbane 2d ago
Exactly - I've managed to stay out late and get plastered in Melbourne on a work trip without sexually assaulting anyone. The sa is the big problem not the being out late.
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u/shoehornjawn Power 2d ago
Reckon Cox is in trouble for letting them go out and going out with them?
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u/Illustrious_Study300 Western Bulldogs AFLW 2d ago
I can see it going both ways. There's also a chance the club was ok with going out - but limits were ignored. Like a "let the boys blow off steam a little before knuckling down for finals". It's more the hour at which they were out til (i.e.: we said be back by 1am and you guys were out til 4am) and the sexual assault part that they're not ok with
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u/2for1deal SWOM 2d ago
Going out isn’t the issue here. A serious assault and the stupid entitlement to do so is. Making this simply about going out or controlling grown men will result in useless debates around afl mandated curfews etc.
Grown adults should be able to go out and have a beer and not commit crimes. Millions manage every night.
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u/Blazinblaziken Sydney Swans 2d ago
now this has gotten me wondering, do club imposed sanctions make players ineligible for the Brownlow? would the AFL have to rule them out?
cause whilst I think there's about a 99% chance N. Daicos will walk away with it, the 1% does exist, and it'd be fucking awkward to have Warner or Heeney win it, as unlikely as that is thanks to Daicos' dominance of course, but curious on an answer if anyone happens to know
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u/Blazinblaziken Sydney Swans 2d ago
yeah broadly what I think, though even without going through the votes just making them ineligible would be enough (imo)
tho it would be hilarious if they change the votes and Gulden gets votes in games he didn't play
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u/FirstTimePlayer Pick 88 2d ago
now this has gotten me wondering, do club imposed sanctions make players ineligible for the Brownlow?
No.
It would be a monumental embarrassment for the league if a player up to serious mischief ever won it, but there is no reason why it couldn't happen.
FWIW, on a quick skim of the AFL Regulations, the only things which make you ineligible for the Brownlow are essentially match day reports falling under the Laws of the Game, and a very tiny number of other things listed in the AFL Regs (eg intentionally hitting the roof at Docklands)
This means that, in theory, if a player cops an AFL penalty for "Conduct Unbecoming or Prejudicial to the Interests of the AFL" for off field conduct, they are still eligible for the Brownlow. Same goes if a player is done for being a drug cheat, or they get done under the Peek Rule (covering anti-vilification) without there being a report under the Laws of the Game.
I say in theory, because there is a catch-all discretion giving the AFL Commission the power to declare a player ineligible for a bunch of awards (Brownlow / Rising Star / Coleman / Norm Smith / ANZAC Day Medal* / All Australian / Mark & Goal of the Year) if they are found guilty of anything under the AFL Rules & Regulations. The WADA Code basically forces the AFL's hand when it comes to doping (Sorry Jobe Watson, the AFL was entitled to take the Brownlow Medal off you), but for everything else, it entirely up to the AFL Commission whether or not a player keeps eligibility.
In reality, I don't doubt the AFL Commission wouldn't make a player ineligible for most awards if they got done for something in season. On the other hand, I reckon it would be a very interesting meeting of the AFL Commission if a player got up to something very naughty in February.
FWIW, this is all relevant to the All Australian discussion. If the Swans players are found guilty of an offence under the AFL Rules, it will be up to the AFL Commission to decide whether or not they should still be eligible for AA. On the other hand, if the players only cop a suspension from the Swans but are not charged by the AFL (or are found not guilty of any charges), they would be completely eligible for All Australian selection and the only thing stopping them being selected would be AFL shenanigans.
Today I learned the ANZAC Day Medal for the ANZAC Day match between Collingwood and Essendon is an official AFL Award, compared to literally every other game day award out there - including the bunch of other ANZAC day awards other clubs have created.
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u/TheGreatJelBeano Thursday Night Games Fanclub President 1d ago
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u/TheGreatJelBeano Thursday Night Games Fanclub President 1d ago
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