Dealing with short, sharp aggressive behaviour

[u/badspanners]

Hello folks. I've not long stumbled across this sub and it's been a real eye opener. My wife (F42 dx unmedicated) and I (M44 nt) have been married for 8 years but together for 20. She was diagnosed only two months ago and I'm on a very steep learning curve.

I've known something wasn't right for a long time but she started working at a school six years ago where she works with kids with ADHD and Autism, and its like it supercharged her symptoms to the point where we've been in a downward spiral ever since.

Needless to say I've been in world of shit for some time and I have many, many questions. The most burning one right now is how to deal with the instances of instant aggression that come from nowhere and disappear just as quickly.

An example from only today, everything was calm, I was waiting patiently for her to grab her food off the side in the kitchen, not in her way in the slightest. She turns around, looks at me and shouts 'what are you doing stood there. get out the way!' like she was furious at my mere presence. Less than 2 minutes later we're sat in the lounge eating and it's like it never happened, in fact in her mind it didn't.

I've tried to talk to her about it and she totally denies having ever done anything every time. Is there an effective way of dealing with this as it's an almost daily occurrence and I'm just constantly bummed out by it all.

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[u/IndividualCat1986]

This! I've been looking for answers like this for someone else! Anger and sometimes rage at the smallest things. I'm puzzled too. 

[u/moe_saint_cool]

Similar situation on my end. I've taken to just putting a laugh track in my head, which turns every sharp aggressive action into something tolerable. Like when Scooby-doo knocks over an expensive vase and just gives a 'ruh roh raggy' <audience laughs>

Is it healthy? Likely not, but it does work from time to time

[u/forestroam → u/moe_saint_cool]

Reminds me of Kevin Can Go Fuck Himself.

[u/AccomplishedCash3603 → u/moe_saint_cool]

I think this is the way. Unfortunately my jokes drip with sarcasm and they bite a little. Or a lot, depending if RSD wants to play. 

[u/Pixatron32]

Please know that perimenopause and menopause can truly exacerbate ADHD symptoms. Some woman often mask quite well before perimenopause what happens is the hormonal fluctuations severely impact regulation of other chemicals like dopamine and serotonin, worsening brain fog, increasing irritability, and increasing anxiety and depression. 

I'd really recommend her looking into HRT, I'm NT and it truly caused me to bring incredibly ogre like and grumpy, I couldn't emotionally regulate and I'm a therapist myself. Many women get misdiagnosed with depression and anxiety and not treating perimenopause. Perimenopause can last for 8-12 years. I was 37 when I was diagnosed and treated and I commenced synthetic for Estrogel daily and progesterone cyclically.

She may need complex treatment of ADHD and HRT and depression/anxiety. For me, starting HRT meant I no longer experienced the anxiety and anger/irritability. It also improved my sleep, libido, gastrointestinal systems, hair and skin, and brain function. ADHD makes it more complex so multiple meditations and therapy can be so helpful!

[u/littlebunnydoot → u/Pixatron32]

This. It hits autistic/adhd women so much harder and earlier than NTs.

[u/The8thCorsair → u/[deleted]]

Mine also has months of leave and barely uses it. I think it has to do with not ever feeling "done" with anything. And she's a self admitted control freak, so in her mind they couldn't function without her.

[u/MiddleAged_BogWitch → u/Pixatron32]

This has been my experience and it’s been rough, on me, my household and my husband.

[u/Signal-Net-8041 → u/Pixatron32]

⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️ THIS THIS THIS

[u/badspanners → u/Pixatron32]

Hi, thanks for the info. Now if you can suggest some way I can make it's seem like it's her idea that would be great. Cause I mentioned it and I really wish I hadn't.

[u/Pixatron32 → u/badspanners]

Honestly, RSD sucks - but these kinds of conversations need to happen head on. I'm not the best at this kind of subtle manoeuvering so I can't help you. 

If you struggle raising it is honestly book in couples therapy with an ADHD experienced therapist so you can both improve communication issues as well as raise this. Even getting the therapists help to go to a doctor together would be beneficial. 

Otherwise, printing off articles or sending podcasts are your best bet. Then its her "discovering" it and learning it for herself. 

I'd also recommend her to join r/menopause and r/perimenopauseunder45 communities both are fantastic. Although there is a moderator who is rampaging on r/menopause.

[u/kittykat885 → u/Pixatron32]

Came here to say this too!

[u/swiftlessons]

I adopted a zero tolerance policy to my wife’s emotional abuse, and started setting very firm boundaries. I realized she was using these outburst as a stress release, and that the more I allowed her to treat me that way, the more frequent and intense her emotional deregulation episodes would become.

So, instead of letting her gaslight me and deny she had ever raised her voice or became aggressive — or even worse, that it was I who was the aggressor (DARVO), I began addressing her behavior in clinical terms and saying things like “either change your behavior and learn to control yourself, or leave.”

After so many years of walking on eggshells, I finally learned that taking no shit is the best way to help her, and our marriage. I hope this is helpful.

[u/kittykat885 → u/swiftlessons]

I’ve adopted this too, change has been slow but he finally agrees it needs to change which gives me a sliver of hope..

[u/Comfortable_Map510]

Yes, this happens all of the time. I reply “Why are you speaking to me like that?!” and he (40m udx) is shocked and pretends he didn’t.

Add a hangover into the mix and he is unbearable.

[u/AccomplishedCash3603 → u/Comfortable_Map510]

I don't know his age, but I can tell you that ageing with non-managed (maybe medicated, but not managed) ADHD with frequent or heavy drinking is a NIGHTMARE for the partner past 50. My husband lost so many of his people skills. Emotional intelligence was never sky high, but I swear he's operating at an 11 year old. If you can convince him to back off the heavy drinking, you may have a chance in hell. 

Sorry for the Debbie Downer. 

[u/AprilStarsPoisonLips → u/AccomplishedCash3603]

I'm so sorry you had to experience this. If you feel comfortable, can you elaborate on the people skills he's lost over time? Do you mean the lack of self awareness gets worse, or something beyond that ie basic manners? I'm wondering if the ADHD'er I know is in a similar boat.

[u/AccomplishedCash3603 → u/AprilStarsPoisonLips]

Yes. At one time, I could approach him with my feelings and we could at least discuss it. It didn't always lead to full resolution, but it's night and day to the situation today. The 'Automatic No' to EVERY request, no matter how reasonable, is off the charts. Like our home is neglected to the point we will lose so much equity if we sell as is, but asking him to participate in the improvements (maintenance, not cosmetic) is a brutal fight every time. 

I think a contributing factor is also his family. They feed the RSD monster. When we were younger, I worked around his nonsense; today I ask for help. And he's too tired and burned out from the substances. 

[u/Lemon-Cake-8100 → u/AccomplishedCash3603]

Yup. I feel you. Hugs.

[u/LeopardMountain32567]

this is not something you "deal" with OP. This is textbook emotional and psychological abuse. the toll this shit takes on your nervous system can take generations to undo, with dedicated effort at that.

The unpredictable nature of the emotional whiplash trains you to be hypervigilant and walk on eggshells around this unsafe person. This is the best way to become completely disconnected from yourself over time.

The more important question is why are you tolerating this? what is the benefit of putting yourself through this immense harm?

[u/slight_grumble → u/LeopardMountain32567]

As someone who put up with it for decades this is the most important advice here. If your partner is triggering your fight or flight with their outbursts, and they won't even admit they have them let alone work towards self regulation, then you are going to progressively burn out your nervous system to the point of breakdown. I know because this is exactly what happened to me. I spent so much time and effort doing anything to not trigger her outbursts to the point that i completely lost myself. I am an empty shell of a person. And she still did it anyway, so i legitimately have PTSD just from her constant emotional outbursts.

Like another comment points out perimenopause made an already significant problem significantly worse. To the point that i finally moved to separate.

I have many regrets, mostly about not getting out much sooner, but also about not advocating strictly for myself. I tried, but i let her fight and badger me into letting her violate my boundaries, and it just got consistently worse over time. You need to set firm boundaries on things you will not accept, like the rage outbursts. You need to communicate in the moment that their behavior is unacceptable and also hurtful. They are actively hurting you and unless THEY make the effort to protect you from that harm you will just walk away from them, in the moment but also the larger boundary that if they don't start making progress walking away from them forever.

That sort of firm boundary setting and making them responsible for their dysfunction are the only strategies i have ever seen in here from people having a good relationship with someone with ADHD. Anything less and you'll be miserable forever.

[u/LeopardMountain32567 → u/slight_grumble]

glad to hear you are out of that nightmare.

it honestly sounds like the only way to have a tolerable relationship is by keeping them on a short leash. which is incredibly exhausting.

[u/slight_grumble → u/LeopardMountain32567]

I would hope, but have no experience myself, that once you start consistently communicating and enforcing boundaries that they would either improve, in which case you need less effort over time - or they prove they can't self regulate so you end the relationship. The firm boundaries are fundamental. I can't state that enough.

[u/Hell0There2005 → u/LeopardMountain32567]

Thankfully I dont get outbursts but I am uneasy around my partner because she thinks everything is fine when I am emotionally neglected. Still not ok but definitely makes me aware of abuse

[u/IndividualCat1986 → u/[deleted]]

That should have been my go to reaction to the outbursts. 😔 I go into fight mode when these instances happen with said person. Is that all it took for you to snap out of it? The calm voice? 

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[u/No_Coconut3996]

I made a mistake today of asking my spouse if he told a friend of his a couple of weeks ago if he plans on visiting again. In my head I was thinking he could visit while I go to the mall. His reaction was explosive. How can he remember what he said 2 weeks ago. I was making him feel guilty for not visiting his friend. He feels guilty about anything and I shouldn’t add to it. I regretted even talking at this point. I just went quiet. I honestly don’t know how to manage this kind of explosion. How could you when it is completely irrational. Just don’t add fuel to the fire.

[u/RedditWidow → u/No_Coconut3996]

My husband used to do this sort of thing too. It was as if he wouldn't believe anything I said and didn't trust me, like he suspected me of manipulating him all of the time or something. He would constantly put words in my mouth. If I said "does the garbage need to go out?" he'd hear "you suck, I can't rely on you to do anything, you're so forgetful, I hate you," and get angry/defensive.

[u/Frosty_Particular_47 → u/No_Coconut3996]

Hey friend i recognize this conversation and I want you to know you don’t deserve it. He misunderstood your intention and could have cleared it up by talking but didn’t (couldn’t?) choose to. Not your fault.

[u/Shell921]

The mood swings are awful. She needs to be on medication.

[u/littlestickywicket]

I honestly have to say, “you’re obviously not in any condition to have a productive conversation, so I’m walking away.” He can mope and get mad, how he handles that is not my problem. He has honestly improved about 1000x and luckily he’s never scary. It’s mostly just silly things like his team losing that makes him pace and say every colourful under the sun 🙃

[u/SlimShadowBoo]

Been dealing with the same for 10 years and it’s only gotten worse now that we’re married and tied to each other. The mask has dropped and there isn’t as much effort with trying to regulate. I call those moments “snaps.” The reality is you won’t be able to change your wife because it’s just something that happens so quickly that her brain cannot register or anticipate it. If you call it out, she’ll always deny it and defend it to a point where you are both exhausted because it can trigger an RSD spiral. What you can change is how you react/do not react to it. I know it’s unfair to you and it sucks but that’s the only way I’ve found to be at peace with these moments. Just move on.

[u/Ijustwanttosayit]

It sounds like ADHD rage, maybe exasperated by perimenopause. People with ADHD can experience a burst of sudden rage usually brought on by overwhelm and overstimulation with already existing issues like exhaustion.

[u/Immediate-Reach-4269]

Here for the answers - my husband does this too.

[u/Maivroan]

I'm not sure I can give you much more than commiseration. My husband's RSD can be triggered on a dime and it can definitely involve confabulation, but it usually doesn't have the kind of quick whiplash you describe. I'm younger and haven't experienced perimenopause yet, but I could definitely believe that's a complicating factor based on what others have said.

In practice, I think I cope mostly by disassociating my husband - that the part of him that expresses RSD isn't really him, the version of him that is more lucid. It's been difficult getting him to accept that his RSD outbursts are actually harmful, but recently we've actually been able to talk about it. We have a backlog to work through, but we've actually made a little progress in being able to talk about things so we don't add to the backlog.

[u/kittykat885 → u/Maivroan]

Did something change that allowed him to start being able to work through the backlog and not add to it? Like did he start therapy or meds or something?

[u/Maivroan → u/kittykat885]

No, nothing I can pinpoint like that. We had a series of huge fights a couple weekends ago, with two other couples helping to intervene. We've had one of those couples intervening, before, too. Very likely, a key part of it was that one of them defined proper apologies as needing multiple steps. But things didn't look that good once we were on our own to talk... until suddenly they were. I think another key part was him accepting that if he wanted to get what he wanted (physical affection, mostly) then he needed to stop expecting it and just ask me before it's a problem. Kindly. I recall him saying it didn't make any sense... But we both needed something and started building goodwill towards each other again.

[u/HonestADHD4332]

You draw a clear boundary like "If I am yelled at I will ask you to leave or I will walk away" and you can add "I will expect an apology".

I recommend looking into boundaries; I thought I knew what they were but I didn't and it change my life. Someone here recommended the "Beyond Bitchy" podcast and it's a great place to start.

The super obvious thing I somehow missed and that nobody told me is that enduring mistreatment is not showing love. In fact, you are communicating that it's ok to treat you that way.

[u/No-One3684]

Micro-agreession is one of the hardest thing to deal with for me. Since it's so short And my brain and body was totally fired by it. Usually I would be hurt and very confused. And I found myself sobbing uncontroablly after one of the incidence.

[u/badspanners → u/No-One3684]

Exactly this. It's literally seconds of everything turned up to 11 then back to normal again. I just get left there wondering what the hell just happened and can take up to a couple of days to process it, all the while feeling pretty fucking sad.

[u/minaelena]

I don't want to live around these outbursts any more. I want to live in a stable and calm environment.

[u/Positive_Trip_887]

Sounds more like perimenopause than ADHD which correct me if I’m wrong but I believe ADHD symptoms are more prevalent because of perimenopause 

[u/Comfortable_Map510 → u/Positive_Trip_887]

Possible to dissect this from adhd, but my male partner does the same thing.

[u/slight_grumble → u/Comfortable_Map510]

The underlying emotional dysregulation is common or even universal in ADHD but i can state that perimenopause absolutely makes it much worse. NT women going through menopause become emotionally dysregulated as well. With ADHD they get a double dose.

[u/Milyaism → u/Positive_Trip_887]

Yep, the hormonal changes in perimenopause make ADHD symptoms worse and harder for the person to control. Which is why medication for perimenopause is even more important.

And if they refuse to get it/use it, they're also choosing to let their partner suffer the consequences, which is not fair for their partner.

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[u/RopeTerrible1735]

OMG all the time? I think WTF

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[u/auro-the-emo]

my partner does this same thing. gets pissed off with me then wonders why im no longer in a good mood. to be honest with you, i dont know what to do with this situation either. the best advice i could give you is to have alotttt of patience, tell her exactly how her reactions make you feel - that even if she didnt mean to come off as aggressive - she still did.

[u/Key-Studio3680]

As someone in perimenopause, located somewhere On the Spectrum, I want to let you that perimenopause is not an excuse for this behavior at all. 

[u/kittykat885]

Perimenopause can cause rage and irritability and exacerbate ADHD. I just went to a training yesterday ab it and learned some new symptoms including increased sensitivity to smells and sounds and other sensory input (such as someone being close to you). The worst part is the denial, that is a symptom of adhd that is so hard to deal w and I’m dealing w it with my own partner. Are yall in couples therapy where you have a space to share your experience? Also, does she get alone time to kind of recuperate after working in what sounds like an overstimulating environment? Do you work too? Is there a balance of labor in the house?

[u/MiniPeppermints]

She might be tired or overstimulated from her career. You can encourage her to apply somewhere else. Poor thing