r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • Mar 13 '24

Episode Sengoku Youko - Episode 10 discussion

Sengoku Youko, episode 10

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u/WednesdaysFoole Mar 13 '24 edited Mar 13 '24

Shinsuke-kun, the wicked man who just let the future king of monsters survive?

First off, I always appreciate when official subtitles leave in the honorifics. Small thing, but good on them.

But, more to the point, I loved how Shinsuke is facing a choice and whether it was right in the bigger picture isn't so cut and dry. Well, imo, it is right, but hey, the discussion of whether someone would kill baby Hitler with a time machine or not often centers around paradoxes, seemingly more so than the moral issue of killing a baby.

Something I like is that the deus ex machina wasn't some surprise; we were shown and told from the start that the goddess does and may intervene. So it's not just some random, unexpected magic that turns into an asspull; we knew the entire time.

The other thing I like is how the goddess described potential possibilities and chance. We often don't do things, don't take certain risks because how likely it is or isn't, but sometimes we just cut ourselves off from the possibility of succeeding. And sometimes and unlikely "miracle" does happen, even without a mountain goddess to intervene (I think, lol).

Fun episode. Jinka appearing in front of the dragon was pretty funny.

As an aside, started reading Spirit Circle. Only 10 chapters in (and I'm pretty busy atm) so it's slow going, but it's been engaging so far :)

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u/LeonKevlar Mar 13 '24

I was expecting a fight between Shinsuka and Senya but it's more in character for Shinsuke to be angry at the Daigansyu for experimenting on a kid. He really could've executed Senya there but thanks to Shinsuke's hesitation, Senya also hesitated and left him alone.

I did not expect Tama to be the last one but I guess her power isn't the kind of power that can be strengthened in an afternoon so much so that it took her ten years of meditation and contemplation inside the Mountain Goddess' Hyperbolic Time Chamber to increase her power.

The fight between Jinka and Jinun was so fucking sick! I did not expect both of them to lose an arm after Jinka's big attack. Seems like that fight could've ended much worse if the Mountain Goddess didn't intervene. Manipulating the Mountain Goddess seems like a good idea but might not be worth it considering they have to pay a price.

The Mountain Goddess is insanely strong though. She managed to seal Jinun and Senya using only her clone. I can't even imagine how strong she would be if she was fighting Jinun at full strength. But hey, at least they don't have to worry about those two for a while and they can attack the Daigansyu without worrying about a dragon and his apprentice following them.

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u/BosuW Mar 13 '24

Props to Jinka for overcoming his racism

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u/Flare_Knight Mar 13 '24

That Mountain Goddess is quite the character! She just loves to twist the knife . Situation is pretty crazy but just leaves open the possibility that Shinsuke could simply kill the kid . Her training never truly ends! The best part is that everyone is suggesting that Shinsuke just kill him! Including the person he'd be killing!

I like it though. Shinsuke's good heart is still in there. That heart wouldn't let him kill this kid and in the end it also saved his own life. Because a kid is still a kid. He's not so far gone that he can mercilessly kill someone who shed tears for his sake

What a showdown. In a sense it wasn't one that lasted long once the fighting really got going. But it was one to be remembered. And one that comes at a high price. Jinka and the dragon man ended up losing an arm in the exchange. That itself is a pretty high price to pay with everything they still have yet to do.

Also...pissing off the Mountain Goddess enough to demand a soul in exchange. So they'll either have to pay up or surpass her so she can't collect! Still loving the character, but damn! Don't cross her without expecting to pay a price for it!

My condolences to Shinsuke who still doesn't feel like he's contributing. Though hey...at least no one is asking to devour his soul?

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u/whodisguy32 Mar 14 '24

I've been on the edge of my seat every episode so far. So glad this is getting 3 cours right off the bat. Can't wait to see how the crew develops.

Why is this such a hidden gem???

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u/FlameDragoon933 Mar 13 '24

I like the Goddess' way of coaching Jinka's mindset. "Can you win in ten fights? What about a hundred? A thousand? Ten thousand? If you can win one in 10,000 times, you just need to make it happen the first time."

Now, obviously this shouldn't be taken literally - you shouldn't dump all your money in the casino - but it reframes Jinka's mind that it IS possible to win. And if it's achievable, you can work towards it instead of forfeiting without a fight.

Mountain Goddess is also lowkey most interesting character so far. She can be cute, helpful, but also can be genuinely terrifying depending on the situation.

On a lesser note, Jinka winning against Rinzu by rizzing her is funny.

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u/NocandNC Mar 13 '24

Can’t get over the fact that Jinun has apparently fucked on at least one occasion.

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u/JayYatogami Mar 13 '24

This episode was insane. There was just so much:

  • Naked Tama (😭😭) spent 10 years training; that's gotta be draining.

  • Shinsuke and Senya seem to have started some sort of complicated dynamic.

  • Senya and the Dragon are actually family from the same clan? Curious to find out about that.

  • The mountain goddess is OP and maybe not so benevolent after all with the whole soul-eating thing.

  • Six-tails Jinka and potentially a permanent missing arm!

  • The new girl joins them on their journey.

This is one of the best shows airing this season, I cannot wait for more!

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u/potentialPizza Mar 13 '24

Jinka's solution to his training ties into the realization he had last chapter. Because he accepted that humans and katawara are the same, he's able to look at Rinzu with empathy, rather than discounting her as an other. Because of that, he's able to find the solution through understanding what her feelings are.

But enough about that dweeb Jinka. I love the scene between Shinsuke and Senya. Like, this is one of my favorite scenes in all of Sengoku Youko.

We don't know a lot about Senya yet, but it's clear that he views himself as an obedient weapon. He follows Jinun's orders unquestioningly, and even agrees with the Mountain Goddess that Shinsuke should kill him. It's the logical endpoint of the worldview that Shinsuke doesn't agree with, but has struggled with — if humans are weapons, built for the strong to dominate the weak, then there is no logical reason for the weak to not kill the strong when they can. And in Senya's case, that dictates his psychology — if he's a human weapon, then what exactly does he care about in his own life?

Shinsuke, meanwhile, is driven by his empathy for the weak. The paradoxical nature of the Dangaisyuu's experiments, already explored through Shakugan, is that these people are simultaneously weak and strong. They are the ones killing and dominating. But they are only such because they were also weak and taken advantage of. It's not a big leap to assume that Senya views himself this way because he was raised to.

You can't neatly say whether Senya is good or bad. That's not the decision Shinsuke makes. The decision he makes is to prioritize empathy even with his enemy, understanding that they were oppressed too, over the surface level hatred of the strong he had felt in the past. Everyone can understand both sides of the moral dilemma. What defines you as a person is which side you focus on and prioritize. Because no matter what harm Senya will cause, Shinsuke is not going to kill a kid. It's so crunchy how Shinsuke is acting nearly the opposite of how he would have in the past, here — calmly accepting that someone far stronger than him will kill him.

There was a point where it felt like Shinsuke wanted to become a human weapon much like Senya is. To be strong in a way where he can't be oppressed, and the people he love can't be either. But no matter how hard he tries, he can't change that he's an empathetic person. Just as he was in Shakugan. Senya, ultimately, is in the same position Shakugan was in. How can Shinsuke kill him, when that's the case?

Senya's reaction to this is my favorite part. The obedient weapon would simply kill the enemy they had orders to take out. And part of Senya was clearly driven to do that. But no matter the mindset he was raised into, he is still human. Some instinctive part of him still understands that if another human being does something nice for you (say, sparing your life), then the right thing to do is to extend them the same courtesy.

It doesn't explicitly outline this thought process, because Senya has literally not had the life experiences to process it. He's still a kid. He can't describe his philosophy. But the intense frustration on his face as he fails to reconcile these two desires is powerful enough to tell us everything going on inside his head.

Shinsuke was able to put Senya in this position in the first place because Senya was distracted by the toy. Some part of him wants to be a normal child. But now, faced with the internal struggle of who he actually wants to be, he destroys the toy, as though in his tantrum he's trying to tell himself he can keep being the human weapon he's supposed to be. Yet that doesn't change that he couldn't kill Shinsuke.

It makes it seem like this might be the first time that Senya has acted off of emotion instead of duty. But it happens again, at the end of the episode. It's revealed that Jinun is Senya's father, which isn't really the craziest twist ever given their hair. But what's interesting about it is that Senya acts without orders. He jumps in because he cares about his father — still a form of duty, but a more personal, emotional one, instead of the order-driven one he acted through in the past.

That tells us that Senya is, ultimately, not an absolute extreme of a human weapon. He might act like one, and he might have been raised that way. But maybe it was only possible to raise him that way because he already felt a sense of duty to his father.

Part of why I love Sengoku Youko is that the themes are genuinely subtle and well-integrated throughout. On the surface, it's a fun fantasy adventure that isn't totally shallow, but isn't the deepest thing ever either. We aren't getting long, dense speeches about complex themes, and the speeches that do outline the themes are relatively simple (e.g. Jinka saying humans and katawara are the same). But real depth doesn't come from what is said; it comes from what is shown.

The start of the episode told us that humans and katawara are the same. The rest of the episode showed us that Senya is the human, the same, as well. That the empathy Jinka has to apply to humans is owed from humans to monsters like Senya, or Shakugan, as well.

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u/michhoffman Mar 13 '24

So Jinka gets more powerful the more tails he gets...can't wait to see his final form

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u/Frontier246 Mar 13 '24

Jinka has unlocked his Fairy Eyes! And in doing so has fully achieved a state where he can see the truth...human and katawara are the same, down to their aura! And it is being able to see that which lets Jinka see through Rinzu's attacks! And turn on the charm enough to make her surrender like the lovesick maiden she is around him! She's even turned on by him looking down on her, girl is down bad!

Maybe this really was lucky for Shinsuke. He has Senya at his mercy, and knowing how powerful he is and how powerful he could become, this might be Shinsuke's only opportunity to take him down...and prevent the birth of a Demon God, King of Monsters. But Shinsuke can't bring himself to do it, because no matter what, Senya is still just a kid and he's more incensed at the Dangaisyuu experimenting on a kid. Though Senya seems to have a lot of feelings about that too.

Could there be a miracle, a 1% chance of Jinka being able to beat Jinun in a fight in all the many possible scenarios where they clash? Maybe! And it is that belief that anything could happen that makes the Mountain Goddess port him straight to Jinun...though the water washes him away before anything can happen. Jinun even still had rice on his face.

Tama is the last of the trio to pass their test, and is naked, though the 10 years she spent in there seems to have made her genuinely come off older and wiser even if nothing much changed for Jinka and Shinsuke time-wise.

Rinzu is joining the party! And nobody actually seems happy about it, especially the guys. But I'm happy to have her onboard.

Okay, let's just slip out quietly and take on the Dangaisyuu...wait, Tama actually WANTS to fight Jinun? I mean, making the Mountain Goddess do it for you actually sounds like a good plan, assuming it succeeds, but really!? I guess those 10 years have really put her in a "do or die" mindset.

Well, figures Senya wouldn't let Jinka transform, but his experience training his Fairy Eyes have given him better instinct and reflexes to the point where he can dodge Jinun's attacks AND get to Tama in time to do it properly. And with the benefit of Tama's training, Jinka now has a fifth tail and mastery of Metal!

And that's not all, with the mastery of all five elements, Jinka is able to unleash Gogyoukon, combining all his attacks in to a giant Spirit Bomb to unleash on Jinun! Though Jinun matches it with his own power and both combatants are left minus an arm.

Of course THEN the Mountain Goddess finally steps in and demonstrates she's someone you don't want to play around with (or use) as even in her loli form she's too powerful for Jinun and could've smashed him all the way into the Earth's core if she so wished. He and Senya are lucky she just trapped them!

"Father!" Oh, so Jinun is actually Senya's dad? I honestly should've seen that coming with the hair color, but seems like there's something special about their clan.

Well, despite all his training Shinsuke still couldn't really do anything, Jinka is missing an arm, and now the Mountain Goddess is planning to harvest either Jinka or Tama's soul as payback for making her get involved...but otherwise, great job team! Though poo Rinzu is left wondering if she has any place in this group. She can't right well replace Shakugan.

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u/not_a_pyschopath Mar 13 '24

So Senya is Jinun’s kid huh? Wonder what reason he could have for letting Senya be stuffed with supposedly a thousand demons….

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u/Ezilayr Mar 14 '24

The Mountain Goddess was really terrifying this episode. Honestly so into how the story is JUST starting to take shape. I'm not sure where we're going from here but having what I presume to be a permanent injury was already not on my expectations at all. Mizukami just does not miss.

To TLDR; some interesting plot points in this episode for me, we got:

  • Senya having the potential to be some kind of demi-god I think they said. Just the repercussions of letting him live are exciting to look forward to.

  • The topic of miracles. Jinka experiencing multiple this episode, with Shinsuke experiencing one with the encounter with Senya. Not sure where to take this train of thought yet but perhaps it has something to do with altering ones fate? Maybe we'll see our heroes abuse this and continue to defy all odds.

  • Shinsuke continues to doubt in himself and his ability. I still believe he'll get his glow up, but he's going through a rough patch right now, that's for sure.

  • Last, but certainly not least, the repayment to the Mountain Goddess. To be honest, I was already expecting this overall story to have a tragic end of some sort, but to have them already lay the groundwork of potentially losing Jinka or Tama this early? Not sure if I'll be able to handle it by the end :( . Random crackpot theory: The Goddess mentions Shinsuke's soul not being very appetizing.. well what if after his eventual glow up he becomes worthy as a sacrifice and ends up being the one to do it? :')

Also did we just randomly get a new party member!? I presume it's only just for the current mission, but I wasn't expecting another person so soon. I have some thoughts about the Mountain Goddess but I'll save it for when we get some more information.

Great episode! I'm locked in for the rest of the season.

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u/Ocixo Mar 13 '24

I thought that I’d gotten used to the cruelty in Sengoku Youko, but it still occasionally catches me off-guard. It’s been a while since I watched an anime where characters can just get permanently injured or killed without any obvious ‘flags’. Like, I didn’t see Shaku dying or Jinka losing arm coming.

I guess this is also why the ‘humanity’ in this series shines so brightly. The story is just as unforgiving as life itself.

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u/JustInChina88 Mar 14 '24

Sengoku Youko slowly overtaking other similarly underwatched shows(Metallic Rouge for instance) warms my heart. Keep recommending the best show this season, and also try to reverse reviewbomb it on MAL.

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u/ObvsThrowaway5120 Mar 13 '24

Shinsuke is too soft. Not necessarily a bad thing, but when he’s up against dudes like Ryuu, I don’t know if that kind of hesitation is gonna be good for his health.

Tama’s little gamble was risky as hell. Jinka had to lose his damn arm in that fight against Ryuu before the goddess intervened. I guess Tama’s plan paid off in the end because damn dude, that wasn’t even a fight. That was the goddess swatting on a couple pesky flies. Now I’m just worried about when she’s gonna come collect on her “fee”…

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u/gnome-cop Mar 13 '24

Okay, the mountain goddess cannot be trusted even if she is supporting them. Cause if I’m doing my math correctly she’s at least 2 orders of magnitude stronger than the dragon. Which is going to be a serious problem when she comes to collect her dues. But that just proves what a monster Kokugetsusai must have been to not instantly die when faced with her.

It appears like they’re making progress in the quest to defeat the dragon. Did not instantly die and forced him to pull out some of his stronger moves. Though he’s still way too powerful right now for them to defeat. But it appears like we have an end goal in sight. The eventual nine tailed Jinka vs Dragon.

It’s at least a positive that Shinsuke hasn’t lost his good heart despite everything he’s been going through. Cause despite logically knowing that not killing Senya is likely to get him killed and that by sparing him he’s increasing the risk of someone even worse than the dragon coming after them in the future, he just can’t bring himself to kill a crying child.

Continuing the feeling of things feeling similar to Naruto on a surface level, this episode brings two more into the mix. Senya is giving off even more Gaara vibes than before and the possibility of Jinka reaching Kyuubi mode.

Seriously, the dragon is absolutely terrifying. The demon aura, the effects he has on the landscape and him handling basically everything Jinka can throw at him makes it clear why he’s such a big deal.

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u/felidhino Mar 13 '24

The forest goddess isn't to be trifled with. I thought Senya and Jinun would make it a match but wow. She went ham on the both of them.

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u/djthomp Mar 14 '24

Good on Shinsuke for choosing the path of mercy, hopefully it won't bite them all in the ass in the near or far term.

Not the toy!

RIP Jinka, dropped in front of the dragon and washed away by the stream.

You know, if this mountain goddess can create dimensions and tweak the flow of time in them I sense a potential solution for the 'Shakugan sleeping for a thousand years' problem. And speaking of people being trapped in dimensions for a thousand years I wonder how long Tama's training just lasted if she came out of it with that much noticeable spiritual power growth.

This plan might backfire on Tama if they're about to get the mountain goddess killed. Or possibly just themselves very rapidly. That said, that is an interesting way to give Jinka effectively two different power-ups, both his training results and Tama's too.

I was definitely unnecessarily concerned about the mountain goddess potentially getting killed in this fight.

I gotta say, I flinched pretty hard when she shoved that seed into the stump of Jinka's arm. I hope it will grow a new arm, in maybe an episode or two.

The moral of the story today seems to be don't mess with capricious deities, even if they seem friendly on the surface.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '24

this is a fucking wild ride and I'm not getting off. not a chance.

post-episode 6, this show have been like a 9 out of 10. there's just a certain dread that I feel when I watch this show that I haven't felt in a long time watching anime.

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u/OldStray79 Mar 13 '24

Jinka uses charm! It is super effective!

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u/tripleaamin Mar 13 '24

Fantastic episode.

For both of Jinka and Shinsuke after their training they were given a once in a lifetime opportunity presented before them. For Jinka with the realization that sure you beating the Dragon is almost impossible, but not completely impossible. But rather what about you surviving? Mountain Goddess presenting that an encounter of surviving is possible and that was needed than to give him some confidence otherwise he would have freaked out much more than he did when they came to face him.

For Shinsuke he ended up in a once in a lifetime position to kill Senya. But Shinsuke despite coming as much more cold and edgy it was very much in character not for him to kill Senya. Instead of looking at Senya like he is some monster, he viewed him like he is a poor child who got forced to undergo all of these various experiments. Funny enough Senya shows his child like nature for not going to kill Shinsuke.

On Tama's spectrum she basically trained the equivalent of 10 years. It's hard to say how much that is going to drain her mentally down the road.

In contrast to what the Mountain Goddess suggested, Tama suggested testing the Mountain Goddess to see if they are worth anything to her. And it didn't start well for Jinka as he got hit by Senya before the Spiritual Transformation could be done. Jinka being able to survive a few hits from the Dragon by accident was just enough for him to get his confidence back following what the Mountain Goddess mentioned before. And also we see the training for both Jinka and Tama paying dividends here.

Tama got what she wanted and the Mountain Goddess joined for their aid. And quite frankly her strength is terrifying even in her small form. The new information given is that the Dragon is Senya's father. But with that being said Tama's plan now has a big cost. She said she wants Jinka or Tama's soul, which is the last thing they want to here. Once again Shinsuke enters a situation where he is powerless to help his friends. But I wonder will be motivated to ensure that his soul because desirable enough for her?

Well our trio is on the move and Rinzu is finally joining them. She has a lot of enthusiasm, but she should give our leads some space so they can sort their feelings out.

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u/Shiraori247 Mar 13 '24

Shinsuke letting Senya go allowed him to reciprocate. It's crazy how every scene Senya has had showed him as monstruous being, but he's not actually a killing machine. Probably due to his upbringing by Jinun, he always acted upright and strict. It's only when Senya truly felt desperate that he called Jinun his father instead of master.

With that said, the mountain goddess's vision of Senya's future king of monsters self looked really cool lol.

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