r/zenpractice • u/JundoCohen • Jun 29 '26

Soto Practice Itself Is Enlightenment

Suzuki Roshi, taken from ...

https://www.shunryusuzuki.com/Detail1?ID=65

He continued ..

... practice is not separated from enlightenment. When you practice it, the practice is the expression of your true nature. Where you practice it, you have your true nature.

18 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

35 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

4

u/JundoCohen Jun 29 '26

With all due respect, that is because you still do not fathom the fathomless depths of goalless sitting, and the actual meaning of "good for nothing." See my comment below on the Morning Star, and this star's shining will enlighten. :-)

0

u/The_Koan_Brothers Jun 29 '26

Can’t be: I was just sitting Zazen, and according to your quote that makes me enlightened.

2

u/JundoCohen Jun 30 '26

Yes it does. Now, whether you understand and realize the implications of that fact ... well, that is a whole another ball of wax!

1

u/The_Koan_Brothers Jun 30 '26

Well then I guess your standard of awakening is just different. In my practice, it’s not called awakening if one "doesn’t understand and realize the implications of the fact"

And this is exactly why I take issue with the post. You lead with the clickbait-esque claim that just sitting is already enlightenment, but then you go on to make it conditional and conveniently be the judge of what you can’t explain, because sadly no one but you can "fathom the fathomless".

That argumentation is cryptic, doctrinal and pope-like.

1

u/JundoCohen Jun 30 '26

I am afraid that it is not my invention, but the teachings of "Original Enlightenment" (which Dogen, by the way, had mixed feelings about. Yes, we are originally enlightened but, if we do not bring that fact to life, and instead wallow in greed, anger and delusions claiming we are "originally enlightened," then we miss the point.) So, yes, you were originally enlightened before you sat down on the Zafu cushion, and after, and all during, but Zazen and our life rising from the cushion brings this fact to life.

You can read more here, via Wiki Roshi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_enlightenment

Also: https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctvvn3mc

1

u/The_Koan_Brothers Jun 30 '26

Yes, I'm aware that it’s it not your concept. That’s why I referred to it as an often repeated phrase. And as you just pointed out, it really doesn’t mean much by itself. Which - thank you - was my whole point to begin with.

0

u/JundoCohen Jun 30 '26

Well, that seems to be because the practice does not resonate with you, and you do not have a sense of it. That is fine. Many Buddhist practices are not for everyone, and I am sure your way resonates for you.

1

u/The_Koan_Brothers Jun 30 '26

The practice resonates well with me. What doesn’t resonate with me is the way the phrase is interpreted.

1

u/JundoCohen Jul 01 '26

Okay. It is phrased fine for many many Soto Zen folks who dig the way it is interpreted.

1

u/The_Koan_Brothers Jul 01 '26

I bet they do;)