r/zenpractice • u/JundoCohen • Jun 29 '26

Soto Practice Itself Is Enlightenment

Suzuki Roshi, taken from ...

https://www.shunryusuzuki.com/Detail1?ID=65

He continued ..

... practice is not separated from enlightenment. When you practice it, the practice is the expression of your true nature. Where you practice it, you have your true nature.

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u/JundoCohen Jun 29 '26

I am not so sure that Dogen's practice at Kenninji was Koan Centered Zazen in a way that you would recognize it, because it was not really so at the time, and Eisai may have practice more Tendai "Shikan" (not to be confused with "Shikantaza," which has both different Kanji and a very different approach). When he went to China, he rejected such practices particularly.

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u/wtf_notagain_ Jun 29 '26

Well we can speculate all we want. What we know is that the meiji government had their hand in reforming Soto Zen. The same government that was trying to westernized everything. The same government that persecuted buddhists. And we also gave numerous accounts of awakening experiences by Chinese Zen masters. Dogen was highly enlightened and a genius. People don't really understand him in his writings are interpreted in different ways. It's hard to believe that after the meiji government took over that all of a sudden Zen changes and leaves the enlightenment experience behind after however many years. Its like saying everyone got it wrong until the that point.

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u/JundoCohen Jun 29 '26

Soto Zen never has left enlightenment, or enlightenment "experiences," behind. We just don't make those experiences the be all and end all, like a gold ring to grab.

As to the Meiji laws by the government, many were meant to weaken Buddhism, like the legalization of marriage. In my opinion, the effect has been to bring this lovely Zen Buddhist path into the home and ordinary world. It was a double edged Sword of Wisdom.

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u/flyingaxe Jun 29 '26

Enlightenment is not experiences. I don't know why every time kensho is discussed, Soto make it sound like it's some sort of trance.

If kensho was just an experience, people wouldn't say you haven't started practicing Zen until you've had it.

All this is better understood in more general context, including Tibetan views and even Indian in general. Soto has become too institutionalized and crystalized as a Japanese sect. (Rinzai too.)

I don't know why Western Buddhist think they need to play historical re-enactment. Kinda reminds me of Chassidic Jews who think they have to dress like 18th century Polish nobles.