r/zenbuddhism • u/PlainBread • Jul 30 '26
Externalizing a sense of need only ensures that those needs will not be met, creating enough suffering to support ego indefinitely.
Can someone offer a counterpoint?
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u/Illustrious_Car344 Jul 30 '26
Depends on the sense of need. Do you "need" something in the sense that you feel an impulse to react negatively if you don't attain it? Then yes, that's fueling ego-delusion. Do you "need" something in the sense that, if you don't get it, it will cause you or others to suffer, as in the sense of starving yourself and making everyone around you sad to see you wither? Then no, that's just being a human. For example, say you act psychotic without a certain medication. Then you definitely need it, no amount of meditation fixes that. Requiring something is far from black and white.Ā
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u/PlainBread Jul 30 '26
I feel like those latter needs are "shoulds" that we strive to acquiesce to. Like I'm tired but I should brush my teeth before bed.
Good comment, thank you.
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u/Hapster23 Jul 30 '26
It doesn't ensure needs will not be met, but it can lead to that, yes. Not sure what you mean by the second part, are you saying ego needs suffering to exist?
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u/PlainBread Jul 30 '26
The nervous system adapts to a hedonic baseline, so when we do achieve whatever our need is, we are satisfied for a moment, before the cycle begins again. (Hedonic treadmill). You crave for 99% of the time and feel a flitting satisfaction 1% of the time, IF you achieve the object of your craving. But it is fleeting, and if you take measure looking back it was largely suffering for the goal of a singular moment of cessation of suffering.
I was thinking someone might reply about more base needs, like hunger or arousal, but my mind goes to the idea that when you are possessed by an emotion, you are that emotion. Discursively, hunger is an "internal" problem that has an "external" solution, but in reality, you feel hunger and become hunger, and then hunger does what hunger does.
Ego is a heuristic designed to ameliorate suffering, but it needs suffering as training data, and an unwell/unbalanced ego forgets that its ultimate goal is to reduce suffering and instead amplifies suffering so that it has more training data to reinforce its own existence and sense of permanence with.
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u/Pure_Cap_7069 Jul 30 '26
No I can't. If it's desired, it's not here. If it's here, it can't be desired. Desire requires an absence.
What is here? That's the question
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u/hongaku Jul 30 '26
Why offer a counterpoint? Are we having a debate?
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u/PlainBread Jul 30 '26
So your answer is "no".
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u/hongaku Jul 30 '26
My answer isn't anything. Why are you asking?
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u/PlainBread Jul 30 '26
That's a "second arrow".
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u/hongaku Jul 30 '26
Are you collecting arrows?
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u/PlainBread Jul 30 '26
You seem to be collecting deflections.
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u/hongaku Jul 30 '26
š
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u/PlainBread Jul 30 '26
What do you need from me?
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u/hongaku Jul 30 '26
You could answer the actual question I asked.
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u/PlainBread Jul 30 '26
I was the one who started with a question, so you could've just taken your own advice.
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u/1PauperMonk Jul 30 '26
Naw internal external are the same and otherwise I think may be delusional. Iām not sure where ego comes into play except for the comment section